Joe Ellis (JOE1983) from VA completely "snaked" his way out of a deal.

I spent over 2 months going back and forth with Joe Ellis on a trade deal. In the beginning, it would take him a day or 2 for him to respond to emails. As time went on, it would take longer and longer. He would say he was going out of town, studying for school, or having computer problems. Typical excuses when someone is jerking you around. So I asked him multiple times if he was still into the deal. If he changed his mind, I just wanted to know, so I could stop pursuing and planning for it.

He insisted that he was still planning on following through and even took updated pics for me, just about 2 weeks ago. I went and purchased a new rack to accomodate the snake I was supposed to be getting from him, because I believed it was going to happen. Now, he hasn't responded to my emails or PMs for almost 2 weeks. I finally tracked down his work number, where they gave me his cell phone. I just gave him a call, and after stammering when I told him who it was, he said "Uh, hold on 1 minute".

The call then disconnected. I gave him a call right back (5 times), straight to voice mail. I've given him every benefit of the doubt. It's undeniably obvious now that he totally backed out on a deal we had talked about for 2 months, and couldn't have the decency to just tell me. All I wanted was a straight answer. Now I have a big rack that I really don't actually need now. If I had known I wasn't really getting this snake, I wouldn't have bought the one I did. And aside from all that, the snake was awesome and was pretty much going to be my most anticpated project for the coming season.

Just wanted to share, because aside from being totally pissed off and disappointed, that's just a real "snake" thing to do. I can't stand when people do things like this. It's fine if you change your mind, I just think I have the right to be informed. If you start working out a deal with him, be cautious and don't get your hopes up till you have your package on your doorstep. Cause he's obviously not real concerned with fulfilling obligations he ties himself into. Hey, anyone between Philly and Baltimore need a 4 shelf AP adult ball python rack?

i have a similar experience with joe. i didn't cost me any money,thank god!! we were supposed to do a breeder loan where one of his pastel granite bp males was to come here to breed a couple of my spider females. he was hard to keep in touch with and then less than a week before we were to meet to pickup the pastel and bring it home to breed, he informs me that he sold one and only has one left and that i would need to bring my spiders to him. i declined the offer.
i'm not saying he was dishonest or that he's a bad guy, but he's definitely hard to get ahold of and i don't like last minute changes in plans. it made me a little too uneasy about letting my girls go.

Question for anyone reading this thread, how much leverage and right do you think I have to keep harassing Joe about this? He agreed to this deal 2 months ago. We were waiting for a female Cinny to hatch for him so we could complete the deal, per his request. The baby hatched, he still agreed he was into the deal. I went and spent $300 on a rack to accomodate the snake I was supposed to get from him. Obviously I totally planned on this happening in reality, not just in some irresponsible kid's head. He hasn't responded to my emails for 2 weeks, but I have his cell phone number, and work phone number. Someone at his work actually gave me his cell phone number, that's how I got it. Haha. I still want and need this snake. My breeding season was very focused around this deal. So how much right do you think I have to stay after him to follow through with what he started? Even if in the long run it does end up being completely futile. I mean, he inconvenienced me, why can't I inconvenience him? And apparently he's done this to other people too. Just looking for opinions. What would you do? Thanks.

RyanT said:

I spent over 2 months going back and forth with Joe Ellis on a trade deal. In the beginning, it would take him a day or 2 for him to respond to emails. As time went on, it would take longer and longer. He would say he was going out of town, studying for school, or having computer problems. Typical excuses when someone is jerking you around.

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Perhaps if you saw this coming the way you described, above, you should have put off purchasing the rack? and perhaps looked elsewhere to find another suitable purchase or trade for your project.
Do you have emails showing that the two of you made a definite agreement?

Yeah, 2 months worth of emails. And I ordered the rack over a month ago. They take a while to be made and delivered. I didn't see anything "coming".

RyanT said:

Question for anyone reading this thread, how much leverage and right do you think I have to keep harassing Joe about this? He agreed to this deal 2 months ago.

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Leverage and right to continue harassing??? IMO, none. You do, however, have the right to be frustrated and angry. The guy apparently changed his mind about a trade (whether or not he originally intended to complete it).

Well I have to say Joe did keep his end of our deal up. In all honesty I cant remember what we traded but I know I had to wait on him to ship me a female pastel after it hatched and maybe a month later he did ship me a female pastel but it was one of the ugliest pastels I have seen in my life. But I guess from reading what you have to say about him Ryan I better be glad I got her at all.

To Whomever

I agreed to this deal. I waited on a group of Ryan cinny's to hatch out and every one ended up being males. I wanted to wait on a female so I waited. I waited around a month for a new clutch to hatch. Well, in the process I had some issues where my girlfriend got in an accident. I have not accessed my email on aol for around 2 weeks and have not been home a whole lot. I was still interested in the trade and just got back to Ryan today. On top of all that a ball I just picked up a few weeks ago got a pretty bad respitory infection so I decided to keep an eye on my snakes to make sure no one else comes down with anything.


Damion as far as the trade we had... I sent you the yellowbelly, which you were super happy about. I told you I would send you out the first female pastel I hatched... which I did. I even sent you a picture of it. When you got it you told me it was ugly and I was more than willing to send you another. You told me it did not matter.

As far as the breading loan I have one male Granite Pastel. I had two but sold one. I wanted to run him through my collection so I decided to keep him at my location... I was more than happy to breed the granite pastel to davids females... but at my location. He decided he would rather not so I agreed and went on my way. I do work two jobs and go to school so I am hard to get ahold of. I did sell david some female ball pythons a while ago which he enjoyed from what I remembered.

Ryan... I was more than happy to finish the trade with you. I even felt obligated to finish it in order to keep my word. I just needed some time as things have come up. I just saw this post today and was in shock to see that someone who still wants to make a trade posted a pretty negative thread about me. I understand that I have been hard to get ahold of but throwing my name around is not making a trade any easier. At this point I am pretty pissed and doubt I will go through with anything. You had my word and I never told you I was not going to finish the trade. Nothing was sent in either direction at this point so it is not like I was sent an animal and never responded.

Thanks for Reading,

Joe

Joe I left you a positive feedback on here for the trade, I told you she was ugly and you did offer me another girl but I told you it was not necessary. I also said that you completed our deal and your right I do love the yellowbelly female I just couldnt remember what we traded for. But the reason I didnt want to send the girl back no offense is I really thought you were going to screw me on the deal because you never called or emailed to keep me up to date on what was going on. I can remember how long a time period it was between me calling and emailing you and hearing nothing in return but I could if need be dig out the old emails on my old computer (now in my sons room) to find out. But I left all that out and said simply that you did complete our deal and from the way it sounded I better be happy you did. That was my personal opinion whether it was right or wrong.

Ryan do you mind if I ask what you were getting from Joe?

Paul, it's an adult female unproven Mojave. Joe said he got her from a friend who got her from a pet shop 6 years ago. I'm divided 50/50 on whether I really think it's anything at all. But I have an awesome male Mojave to breed this year, and I'm just very interested in trying. To me, it's more fun and more intriguing to try breeding something I'm totally unsure of, compared to something proven, that you know exactly what to expect from it.

JOE1983 said:

At this point I am pretty pissed and doubt I will go through with anything. You had my word and I never told you I was not going to finish the trade.
Joe

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Joe, like I said in my PM to you today, when I called your phone, got an answer and then got hung up on, and couldn't get through again after trying a dozen times, I kind of assumed I was being avoided. If it's a huge misunderstanding, due to circumstances or just whatever, then I sincerely apologize. My fault for being hasty. But put yourself in my position. I waited until it seemed like things were completely closed on your end before I posted anything here. Again, I really HOPE they're not.

yeah joe you did sell me a couple of girls that are doing nicely. and i didn't misrepresent what happened with our breeding loan, and please don't take offense as i wasn't trying to cast a negative vibe about you. i was just stating facts. i would do business with you again.

I will be honest I have had some issues with communication in the past. I switched cell phone carries and I had my computer crash many times. I also go to school full time (even over the summer) and work two jobs. I know I had issues with that but I never tried to screw anyone on anything. Damian I lost your email address over the summer. When you emailed me about the pastel I sent it that week. We never had any issues after that point with communication. I would have even sent you another pastel female before you sent that one back. I breed ball pythons as a hobby not a living. David thanks for the kind words and i will run my pastel granite through my females and if you want I will send him out to finish up with your females. Again I was not out to screw anyone. Thanks

Joe Ellis

Sounds to me like misery loves company. You guys got what you were supposed to get.

I recently purchased a newport california king from this guy for like close to nothing. I just got into the hobby but I've known Joe for a while and he has helped me a lot with it. He has been able to answer a lot of my questions and is more than willing to help me out with it. Even my brother who has not been into snakes for as long as I can remember has warmed up to the subject and got some pretty awesome snakes that joe hooked him up with and we had absolutely no problems.

Most definetely will refer and buy from Joe again.

yo....this dude ain't worth it .....i'm sure you'll find what you want some where else .....guys like that are a waste of time ....if you ever see him at a show or whatnot let him have it ....just move foreward don't let dick-heads like this get you angry...it just ain't worth it

bob , i just dont see where your coming from .

i've known joe for a while and in fact work with him . i think joe is a pretty good guy , and have done a couple transactions with him with no problems what so ever . last season joe loaned me a yellow belly male to breed with a couple of my big females . though nothing came of it , i had no problems working with joe on this little project .

i also have just today bought a male yellow belly from him , and i am quite happy with it . i also got a very good deal on him in my opinion .

granted i do work with him so it's a little easier for me to get ahold of him , but joe's not lieing about working 2 jobs and school full time . he is definately always on the go . i'm not saying that the lack of comunication shouldn't be addressed , but i do believe joe is an honest person and will do what he says he will .

OK. u guys cant give Joe to much shit. he is a good guy with a bunch of stuff on his plate. he works two jobs and goes to school. he is a great guy. he got me into snakes. he gave me a spider ball and a pastel. at no cost. when ever i have a problem i can get his help. u also have to understand his girlfriend is an ass and requires all his free time.

i was very happy with the deal we did. he was fast to respond to any questions i had. very happy with the snake i received. will do business again.

Melissa, you probably should have grabbed a different thread to put your comment on. The title is very misleading. And I just want to say that I completely retract this thread that I originated a year ago. I recently posted about Joe and how well our transaction went, over the EXACT same female that I was talking about in this thread a year ago. Took a year for everything to come back together, but I got this snake, and she's incredible. I also won't hesitate to do business with Joe again.