East Ozark Reptiles - Larry Hastings

This company offered Leucistic Baird's Rat Snakes for sale @ $40 each. I had never heard of leucy Baird's. Anyone else ever heard of them ? Several people contacted the company inquiring about these. Well known names were dropped like Applegate and the owner - Larry Hastings - is adamnet that the breeder is "well known" and reliable. Yet at this point he will not reply to requests for additional info or to sell them. I should also say that Hastings insists these are "PURE" leucy Baird's. Requests for the name of the breeder have been ignored also. Hastings cried to KS and my inquiry was pulled. Hopefully some light can be shed on these very new and rare morphs. I have contacted a number of "well known" herpers in Texas and they had never heard of this. The company has not replied to any of my contacts regarding these snakes. Feedback ??? I'm not interested in a fight here - just honest info.....are there any known records of PURE leucy Baird's ?

Is there a link To the ad or a website link?

Ive worked with bairdi for 5 years and have never heard of a leucy.I have seen some pics of what people were calling albinos but I'm not really sure that's what they are.Great looking snakes.As for a leucy bairdi just popping up out of nowhere for $40 .Well I'm not going for it.Smells like a hybrid.

Here's the link: http://eastozarkreptile.com/Leucistic%20Baird's%20rats.htm

The text reads "Leucistic Baird's Rat Snakes - - $75 each

The guy who bred these bred an albino male Baird's that he purchased from Brian Barcheck in 2001 to a normal female Baird's that he purchased from Evan Stahl that same year.

He bred those two together and got het. albinos.

He kept back and bred a het. female from that hatch back to the original albino male a few years later and got 4 leucistic babies in that clutch.

He kept all 4 leucistic babies and bred them to each other producing a pure leucistic strain of Baird's Rat Snakes.

he was at the Tinley Park show this year and he sold a bunch of them."

Genetically - That won't work !

Let's see..........

Albino X Normal = HETS

Albino X HET = Albinos & HETS

We know leucy's are genetic and the trait passes just like in albinos.

So how do you get 4 leucy's from a pair that did not show the trait to begin with. AND if they were pure - why are they only $75 when they are also the ONLY ones on earth EVER PRODUCED !????

FALSE ADVERTISING !!!

THERE ARE NO PURE LEUCISTIC BAIRD'S RAT SNAKES ON THIS PLANET.

WHO is the breeder that sold them at the Tinley show ?

Leucy or not that sounds like a bunch of inbreeding and possible genetic problems down the line to me. From my understandings it isnt safe to breed siblings genetic wise?

Nagini - With reptiles, breeding siblings is fairly common, especially to refine a particular trait. Even then, yes there are risks of increased genetic problems as a result, but when you have very few snakes that have the genes for one trait, breeding them together is usually the first step in producing more snakes with the same traits. So, inbreeding isn't really the issue. When you see the term "line breeding", it's just a nicer term for inbreeding to refine a certain trait.

The big question here is that it seems like the breeder is trying to say that albino snakes breeding somehow resulted in a leucistic trait, which doesn't seem likely. Leucistic and albino are two different traits... right? To get 4 leucistic babies from a het X albino doesn't seem right. Even if the leucistic gene was recessive and not visible in either the original albino or the het female, to have 4 babies in one clutch show the leucistic recessive trait is awfully lucky.

But - I also know nothing about Baird's.

Genetics

For leucys to have EVER been produced by this breeding, both the albino male and the "normal" female would have had to be het leucy. And then it would have shown up in the first breeding. The FACT that Larry Hastings has REFUSED any further response to this issue and he will not come here and answer, I think we can all deduce that this is a HOAX. THERE ARE NO LEUCY BAIRD'S RAT SNAKES !!!

UPDATE !

Larry Hastings has re-listed these "leucy" bairds on his own site - East Ozark Reptiles as pure bairdi and jacked the price to a whopping $75 each. This idiot is clearly either a scam or just really stupid about what he has, or thinks he has. Pure leucy bairdi would be hundreds of dollars - NOT $75 !

WHO is the breeder ?

Has anyone informed Larry of this thread and asked for a response?

$75 for a mutt?albXalb=leucy?Someone needs to come clean and admit they bred it with a leucy texan.

Numerous times.....

Larry Hastingshas been asked any number of times in regards to these supposed leucy bairdi. Several offers to purchase them have been made regardless of the cost. He has also been informed of this post on several ocassions. He has been asked who the breeder is. He has refused ALL contacts and not responded to anyone. If he was legit, he would come on here and tell us about these one of a kind snakes. Or he would at least answer the e-mails personally.

I cant wait for all the luecy bairdi adds to start popping up in 4 years.

Finale'

It is clearly obvious that the owner of East Ozark Reptiles - LARRY HASTINGS - and his unnamed "well known breeder" are trying to run a scam on the herp world with these fake snakes. They are still listed on East Ozark as Leucy bairdi with a firm statement that they are PURE. But now the price has been jacked to a whopping $75 !!! It's MAD, MAD MAD I tell you ! Hastings has been both advised and asked to respond to this. His refusal is an obvious attempt to continue the scam. I would buy NOTHING from this guy in the future.

I have to admit that I know nothing about luecy bairdi. I can say this: I live fairly close to Larry and have done business with him for many years. He is a very nice guy and has always been upright and honest in his dealing with me and everyone else that I am aware of.

Keith Thompson [email protected]

Larry Hastings

Another point:

Larry is a breeder and a broker. A broker's job is to find animals that a buyer wants. If a broker gives out his sources, then the buyer's can go straight to the source themselves. So brokers do not necessarily give out that information.

Also: While you may have suspicions that these animals are not what they are advertised, it is ill advised to defame someone's character on suspicion alone. Before we trash someones reputation, we ought to have proof of wrongdoing, and nothing less.

As I said above, I have done business with Larry for years and will continue to do business with him. He is in my opinion a very honest individual.

Ok how would this scenario work?
Someone bred a leucistic Texas Rat to a light/albino Baird's.
Someone purchased an albino male, not knowing of the hybridizing, from that pairing and made the crosses as suggested on the East Ozark Web Site.

I’m the worst when it comes to Genetics but it seem plausible to me and neither the producer nor East Ozark would know they were selling hybrids.

Of course it is equally possible that Larry just paired a leucy Texas with a Bard’s and is trying to pull something but at those low dollar prices for an unknown morph it does not look like it. Somehow it does not fit.

Facts are Facts.....

Threre are a number of things that make this stink all around. First, if Larry is such a legit dealer - WHY does he continue to REFUSE to reply to this issue ? Either he has PURE leucy bairdi or he doesn't. It goes to his credibility in other sales - like for example if he is selling an animal that is het - is it really ? If he will lie about these bairdi and then refuse to answer - why would anyone ever trust or buy from him on something that is questionable to begin with because it is not visible ? I sure wouldn't.

The facts here are solid......numerous people asked about these as soon as they were posted on KS @ $40 each. All replies to these inquiries were SOLID assurance that they are in fact PURE leucy bairdi. An offer was made from East Ozark to speak to the man that bred these and a phone number was requested. The phone number was given, but the man that bred these never called anyone. Then Larry cried to KS and they removed the post that questioned these leucy bairdi. WHY ??? SCAM !

Then several names were thrown around to back up this claim of PURE leucy bairdi. The male original albino bairdi was purchased from BRIAN BARCHECK in '01. A normal female was purchased from EVAN STAHL also in '01. This breeding produced hets that were bred back to the albino male to get the four original leucy bairdi. Anyone know either of these guys ? Evan Stahl sounds familiar. The gentics absolutley DO NOT work out here anyway. Then Bob Applegate's name was thrown around to make the, as yet, unknown breeder look legit. Also, a bunch of these leucy bairdi were sold at the Tinley Park Show in Chicago in October '07.

There have been numerous request to Larry Hastings for info on these. NO REPLY ! Also, numerous requests to buy them. NO REPLY ! Hastings has been told this post is here and asked to reply. NOTHING !

There are only one of two possibilities here.....Hastings and his unknown breeder buddy are running a SCAM - or Hastings just doesn't know enough about reptiles to even be doing business. Either way - do you really want to deal with this guy ????

How 'bout it Larry ????? Any answers here for us ?

I'm sorry, but what is even more unbelievable is that a guy who has been in business for much longer than most here, would run a "scam" to sell a couple of $40 snakes. So I rule that one out.

Second, "that Hastings doesn't know enough about reptiles to be in business." I have personally seen his animals for 20+ years. That choice doesn't hold water with me either.

Next, based on the fact that he has done business here locally for all of those years and is well known by all, with no complaints, I would still recommend him.

My own daughter has made two purchases from him in the last two months.

And, if for some reason these things are not what he says they are, then someone pulled the wool over HIS eyes.

Accusations and suspicions do not proof make and they are not justification for trashing someone's good name.

How about this one: Do you personally know of anyone who has purchased an animal from Larry that would say they were cheated? I don't.

Where is Larry ?

Let's go with your theory Keith, that Larry is not running a scam on the herp world with a very new previously unheard of leucistic snake......baird's ! He posted them on KS @ $40 each. Then he pulled the ad immediately when questioned. He then proceeded to INSIST that they were in fact PURE ! Yet the ad has not been relisted on KS or anywhere else - EXCEPT - his site. Now they are a whopping $75 each and the disclaimer still insists they are PURE leucy baird's. If he is not running a scam - let's go with my second thought - he's an idiot ! Nobody in thier right mind who was worth a in dealing herps would sell one of a kind snakes like that for cheap.

While you may well think the world of this guy - he still either looks like a scammer or an idiot - take your pick. Since Larry has refused to reply - you don't have to take my word for it. Go to his site and look for yourself. He has them listed as pure leucy bairdi, complete with the "genetics trail", which by the way does not even work out, and the price of $75 each.

Perhaps Larry would like to come on here and answer this for himself instead of hiding behind you Keith. It is very simple to clear up. Larry needs to either ADMIT they are NOT pure leucy bairdi or PROVE that they are.

Hey Larry, what's wrong - crying on Fauna doesn't work for you ?