Bad Guy Jeff Snodgres University of Arkansas

I sent Jeff an adult female black tail cribo and 3 baby CA red sided garter snakes. He was supposed to send me a baby TX indigo and a pair of Louisiana pines. He has done neither.
Jeff and I started talking in '02 when he responded to ad I posted looking for southern hognose snakes. Jeff said that he was staff at the U of Arkansas and conducting a study at the school on these snakes. When the study was done in a few weeks, he would send me some free of charge. Well, soon after, Jeff disappeared, not answering e-mails or phone calls. A few months later, he popped up, told me his grandfather died, and that he had given all of the snakes to his students. He said he would try to get some back for me, but most of the students sold them (around '02-'03, the southern hognose market was crazy. A guy down south named Paul Bollinger was the main reason for this as Paul paid upwards of $250 per wc male and even offered me $1k once for a nice wc adult pair). I found it weird that Jeff had given all the study snakes away to students, but we kept in contact through e-mail and on the indigo forum.
Back in '04-05, I posted a gorgeous cbb adult female black tailed cribo for $250 I believe. Jeff responded to my ad, said he wanted the snake, and offered a hatchling Texas indigo snake in return. Apparently, Jeff had a large collection of Drymarchon, both in his personal and University collections. He said that he was not in the hobby for the money and would send me a baby indigo when he had one. I said that it was not a problem, and sent him the snake with shipping billed to him (or the University?). Indigo laying season came along, and Jeff told me that he did not produce Tx indigos but would send me a Louisiana Pine from a pure pair he had. I agreed, and he pushed me off until pine season. In the meantime, I produced California red-sided garters. A female gave me 3 babies. I had mentioned this to Jeff, and he asked me for all of them, saying he would repay with a TX Indigo and pair of La pines to make us even. I agreed, and once again sent him the snakes with him or the U paying shipping. The approximate value on the garters was $125 each at that time.
I kept in contact with Jeff, and he assured me that he would have some snakes for me, and nothing. This has gone on now for 4 years, and I am at wit's end. Jeff has used the following excuses to push me off in the last 4 years:
"I am getting divorced."
"My wife's lawyer froze all of my assets and I cannot remove any snakes."
"I was sick"
"I had surgery."
"Its too hot to ship."
"I have no shipping boxes."
"My shipping boxes were delivered and left out in the rain by the mail carrier, making them worthless."

I am not saying that any of these reasons are false or invalid, but he seemed to always have one. I have called him at least 50-70 times this year, leaving a voicemail each time. His cell phone rings, and his mailbox does not fill up, so I know he gets my messages. He has returned my calls 2-3 times this year. He told me in August '08 that the only pits he has left are an adult pair of deppei that he agreed to send me to make amends for the other snakes. I agreed, but he said he had no shipping boxes. I told him that I would send him one, but Jeff told me that he placed an order for some and that they would be in by the time temps cooled down.
When I last spoke to him sometime in September, he told me that the shipping boxes were ruined and that he was busy with the semester at the University. I asked him just to keep in contact with me every 2 weeks for updates. Jeff agreed and has not been heard from since despite countless voicemails. In his last phone call, Jeff told me he is former Law Enforcement being a local cop and an Arkansas Trooper in the past. Well, as current law enforcement, I can tell you this is not the way to act, especially not to a brother officer. I kept on trying to tell myself that this was just a big misunderstanding because you were down on your luck. However, you had 4 years to take an hour maximum out of your day and ship some snakes. You didn't wait for me to ship the snakes to you. Why are you making me wait so long? Jeff, I'm sure you're reading this. I hope you respect that I have taken the high road and not trashed you. I have merely stated the facts. Please make right on this to keep your good reputation.

I don't feel right posting his phone # but his e-mails are
[email protected]
[email protected]

You might consider sending him an email and notifying him about this thread. I would like to hear more about this situation from both parties, as well as see the emails exchanged between the two of you starting at the beginning of the deal.
I must say though it seems strange that you would allow yourself to be stalled for four years.
On the Fauna, the "Snakes of Arkansas" web site as well as "Turtle Times" he goes by "epidemic" and has not really shy about posting his contact information.

Jeff has been notified about this thread. He still continues to ignore my e-mails. I have gotten 2 e-mails/phone calls since posting this thread from private parties claiming that Jeff owes them snakes too. As far as for being stalled, I once called Jeff a friend and believed he was having bad luck. Guess the egg's on my face.

Knowing Jeff, I would be willing to bet that he is a man of his word and will honor any agreement that he has made with you. I commend you for your patience and I can understand your frustration in this matter. Hopefully Jeff will get in touch with you and work a solution that suits you both.

Art Klass

Art,

Thanks for the kind words. I still have received no contact from Jeff. I had a missed call from him yesterday, but he never left a message and didn't pick up when called back. I hope that he is looking to resolve the matter and make good with me.

Anthony Chodan said:

Art,

Thanks for the kind words. I still have received no contact from Jeff. I had a missed call from him yesterday, but he never left a message and didn't pick up when called back. I hope that he is looking to resolve the matter and make good with me.

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That's good to hear, Anthony. I would imagine that his phone call to you is a rather difficult and humbling experience. It definitely seems to be a promising start to a hopeful resolution.

I'm in both of your corners! I appreciate your update.

Have you thought about contacting the university to try to get in touch with him, or find out more about what's really going on? While contacting someones workplace may be inappropriate in other situations, some of the snakes you sent him where intended to be used in a university study. You were supposed to be compensated after the study was concluded. Also, you say some of the other snakes may or may not have been shipped to the university. In this situation I think contacting the university would be perfectly fine. You were dealing with him as a representative of the university.

I think the fear of earning a bad name around the university might motivate him to resolve the issue once and for all. I shouldn't speculate on things I know little about, but is there a chance that the university wasn't involved at all, and all the animals were for his personal use? This is something that would be easily found out with a few calls to the school.

I agree with "simplechamp." If Jeff has had ample time to respond and/or rectify the situation but has failed to do so, I would contact the university. You have been using university e-mail system to contact Jeff so that make a direct & viable connection to them. Also, if you shipped any of the snakes to an address at the university that solidifies it.

If you were using an e-mail account like: snodgrass@give_me_your_snakes.com or any other personal type of an account, AND they were shipped to a residence or private company, then you're dealing with Snodgrass, the individual person.

However, using a university e-mail account and/or shipping address, you are dealing with the university, through Snodgrass. He would therefore be acting as a university representative.

I'm not taking sides, although I tend to believe you, largely because of a lack of dispute from the other party - but also because of the amount of patience it appears that you've exercised.

My post is only to offer what I believe is a perfectly legitimate course to seek settlement.

Best wishes!
Michael Sanders

Art, Jason, and Micahel,


Thanks for your responses. I have thought about contacting him at the University. That is one of my last resorts, and I hope it does not come to that. I am hoping this thread lights a fire under his a$$ to make good. Still nothing from him since that missed call.

I have a ton of respect for how cool and collected you are handling the situation. You've been VERY patient. Some people are overly aggressive and rude, which makes things worse. Others are doormats who let people walk all over them. You seem to have found the perfect balance in between. I'll be following along, and I hope everything works out for you.

Jason, thanks again. I hope Jeff soon comes through so we can put this behind us and hopefully be friends once again.

hmmm, sounds like deja vu all over again...

I have spoken to Jeff a number of times since 2004 when he contacted me looking for sheds for some sort of study he was going to do. There were a number of other deals we were going to do but somehow always fell through on his end. He's the busiest guy I have ever met with the worst luck. Jeff has always been pleasant to talk to, very conversational and intelligent, so in some ways it is hard to get mad at the guy when he doesn't follow through even if it is the right thing to do, hahaha. Anyhow, if this is how he does business I am glad I never sent him any money or anything alive.

Keep this afloat until we hear from Jeff, and hopefully he takes the opportunity to make it right.

Dave Boyle

I have known Jeff for many years. He once worked at the zoo here as a night guard.
He was also a one time President of the Herp Society I founded here in Arkansas.
I haven't been in contact with him, except last year I ran into him at the Delta counter while he was shipping snakes and I was picking up snakes. We talked for a few minutes and he told me he was breeding Indigo's, I said good luck and left. I'll try to contact him through the society and get him to respond.

Randal

simplechamp said:

Have you thought about contacting the university to try to get in touch with him, or find out more about what's really going on? While contacting someones workplace may be inappropriate in other situations, some of the snakes you sent him where intended to be used in a university study. You were supposed to be compensated after the study was concluded. Also, you say some of the other snakes may or may not have been shipped to the university. In this situation I think contacting the university would be perfectly fine. You were dealing with him as a representative of the university.

I think the fear of earning a bad name around the university might motivate him to resolve the issue once and for all. I shouldn't speculate on things I know little about, but is there a chance that the university wasn't involved at all, and all the animals were for his personal use? This is something that would be easily found out with a few calls to the school.

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Just send an invoice for "past amount due" to the accounting, science etc.. departments for the University of Arkansas, care of c/o Jeff Snodgres, with attached emails and claim if it's left unpaid small claims court or collections processing will begin. That should get someones attention there.

ForkedTung said:

Just send an invoice for "past amount due" to the accounting, science etc.. departments for the University of Arkansas, care of c/o Jeff Snodgres, with attached emails and claim if it's left unpaid small claims court or collections processing will begin. That should get someones attention there.

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Kyle,

While I am no expert in the area by any means, I do know that you have to be careful when contacting someone at their place of employment for collection purposes, especially not knowing for sure what portion of the money owed (if any) was actually for snakes that the university benefitted from, and how many were for his "personal" use. Even if you send something c/o Jeff Snodgres, letters may be opened by someone else in the appropriate department (I will open envelopes at work that come to our accounts payable dept, no matter whose name is on it, as if it is a bill for my company, it all would go thru the same payment process, just different people who may have submitted the individual purchase order). And, especially if you sent the same bill to multiple departments where this could happen....there are some pretty specific collection/privacy laws that I would make myself familiar with before resorting to something like that.

On the contacting his university about bills due, I don't necessarily think that is a wise idea. If he didn't offer to pay with a university CC or account, I doubt you have any chance of them caring the least little bit. HOWEVER, there may be a way you CAN stir a little bit of a fire up over there. By federal law, you need an Animal Use Protocol (AUP) to do research on live animals at universities that receive federal funds. It may go by another name for one reason or another (the board is officially called the IACUC - ask for the current members you call the university), but AUP is usually understandable. Now, snakes are exempt from that federal law, but most universities require one since AAALAC requires it for all vertebrates. Call the university and get on the phone with some of the committee members. Ask for a copy of his protocol. It should be public record - only certain parts containing proprietary information should be held back. If they ask why, tell them because he acquired animals from you FOR research at the university. Tell them since he never paid for them, you still consider them YOUR animals, and you want to see how they are being used. If you decide to seek your money through the legal system, I expect that a copy of his AUP would be very beneficial to you. If he doesn't have one, then you can be happy about that fact, too. I imagine that your case is even better if he has your animals at the university to conduct research on them without an AUP which is likely required by his employer. You can almost bet that they will get concerned and contact him directly about the animals and his lack of an AUP for them. Even if he has one, they'll let him know you are looking into his actions so he knows you are planning on taking him to court.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't be too surprised if he used the university NAME to help him get animals at a better rate (and for prestige) without actually every using the snakes for research. If this is the case, let the board know because that WOULD be completely dishonest of him. The university would have nothing to do with it, however, and you'd have no rights to contact his department with a bill. The committee that approves the AUP could care less about him doing that, too. They only care about research. You'd have no outlet to get restitution via the university, but his coworkers would hear the rumors of his actions. Plus, the university certainly would not like the his actions if that is the case. In other words, checking on the AUP does him no harm if he wasn't doing something inappropriate. That's a good thing. If he did do something inappropriate, then this is a safer way for you to maybe find out about it.

UPDATE (after I typed out the above) --> Here are some links that might help you: http://www.uark.edu/admin/rsspinfo/index.html and http://www.uark.edu/admin/rsspinfo/compliance/animal-subjects/index.html . This is from the U of A website: "Federal and State compliance requirements — Regulations and regulatory offices; UA committees, policies, forms, deadlines, and administrative contacts. Committee prior approval required for research involving: living human subjects, live vertebrate animals, r-DNA, pathogens, toxins, human and non-human primate tissues and fluids, transgenic plants and animals, select agents, radioisotopes, procurement/relocation of sealed-source laboratory equipment."

....and contact information for the AUP (unless they make you go through FOIA):
IACUC Program Manager/CLAF Manager
Carol Rodlun
(479) 575-2994
[email protected]

Good luck. Hope this gets worked out as JUST an oversight on his part and not a true "BAD GUY" situation.
KJ

Looks like my patience has paid off. I am happy to report that Jeff just called me. He apologized for his lack of communication. He told me that the pair of deppei he promised me as well as some other snakes of his were being looked after by someone else. He told me that many of them came back emaciated. He said the deppei were thin but in otherwise fine health and feeding on 2 small meals a week. He agreed to delta dash them to me on 12/29. I will keep the BOI updated.

The snakes weren't shipped Monday, but Jeff called to tell me this. I ended up receiving them yesterday. They were thin as advertised but otherwise in apparent good health. I'd like to thank the board and contributors (both vie e-mail and on this thread). I am happy to finally get some closure.

glad it all got worked out then!