Bad Guy Shannon Craft aka Crazysnakelady ripped half my collection off

My name is Sarah Gregory. Last December my boyfriend and I broke up and I had to move back to Oklahoma. At the time I had around 75 adult snakes, and approx 20 or so hatchlings which I sold all I could at the Manasses VA show. At the time my plans were to go overseas for contracting. I was to pack up my vehicle and move. Shannon offered to care for what animals she could for the time being. which were:
1.1 bp (1 male spotnose)
0.0.1 Biak GTP
0.1 Irian Jaya Carpet
2.3 ATB
1.3 Sub & Adult Candoia
2.4 Baby Candoia

total 19 snakes, 3 poss gravid so they were off eating.
weekly feeding: 8 pinks/fuzzies, 8-10 adult mice, 3 small rats


I left her with 50$ cash, a green tree baby to sell and my old boss from the rodent farm offered to start a running tab for me to pay when I had the chance too. Now an atb had an slight URI, she took it to the vet and had it checked out of pocket. (which was about 100$)which later she sold the GTP to pay for the bill. (fine by me, i told her to sell a few animals to help reimburst her at the time)

So when I got back to OK, I had a hard time finding a job (it wasnt till FEB I finally found one) I was living with my mom, no cell phone, and I occasionally picked up the net with my brothers laptop. S0 not much communication went between shannon and I. When I did get a job, I recalled an occasion in early feb. that I called from a friends phone, no answer on shannons end and I left a message saying I had some money to send please give me your address. No reply, several weeks later I started getting email messages from shannon telling me she felt taken advantage of etc etc... I had replied with less than friendly remarks with what I had done for her in the past. And that I had been put into a tough position as well. Withing that year I had giving her about 1200$ worth of animals alone that I had produced or traded for at shows just out of being a friend. (ie eyelash viper, atbs, st isabell ground boas, etc) she even the option of having a tab started, I understand she had a lot of stress going on at the time (bum roomate, etc etc) and she needed a little load off of her back. Her boyfriend even has a rodent breeding operation.

SO I told her I had met up with a local breeder who offered to take a trip out when we were planning on making a delivery in NC. that fell through, then we came up with a plan that friend in NC (a breeder) was going to come pick up the animals when he got some time from juggling 3 buisnesses. She had a snake of his in her possesion as well. this was approx march or so when we came up with the plan. He finally gave me a date which was april 12th to come to her home and pick up the animals. She agreed, however early on in the week she changed her mind and decided not to even give him his animals, my animals let along the caging, supplies etc. her reasoning for all of this was "she was done" it was only about 4 months into the deal she burned me. I lost
1.1 bp
0.0.1 Biak GTP
0.1 Irian Jaya Carpet
2.3 ATB
1.3 Sub & Adult Candoia
2.4 Baby Candoia

4 Exo Terra Cages (large style)
4 Vision Cages
1 4ft neodesha
1 4ft boaphile
Misc. Items (extension cords, water bowls, hides, thermostats, etc)a lot of new items

which equals about 4000-5000$

Some of this falls on my bad, poor communication, lack of funds, but the options were there. If the money was there I would have hooked her up with more then enuogh to make her happy. But it wasnt about the money, I am not sure what it was about, Once again her bf the rodent breeder, and my old boss botht there to help her. There is no reason there to keep someones property, let alone a friends. I would do the same for anyone of my friends without question. Especially one who had given me so much outside of a great friendship. I would have made it work. Its now September, this has been eating away at me for some time. Especially when I am seeing my caging and animals posted online with her animals in my cages, and my animals being claimed as hers. When all of this went down in April, I did ask for just my caging back and some of the supplies back(mainly the visions, we know they arent cheap, I offered to have them groudn shiped frieght my bf is in the buisness) and she even refused that.

Has she been made aware of this thread?

Was any of this "deal" made and agreed to in writing?

Take her to a small claims court.

This dosnt sound like something Shannon would do, but apparantley has. If you do go to small claims court, you need proof of ownership of the snake, and all enclosures. Also i would notify Shannon of this thread, and the accusations that are being claimed...

You can say what you want Sarah. I know the truth and that is what matters to me. I know times are tough but they weren't exactly easy for me either, and you seemed to have no problems feeding and caring for your own snakes, so was it really that hard to send $20 a month to help out? And it was 2 ATBs that had RI, thank you. You may have given me some animals but does that really make up for what I did for you? We did a lot for each other and yes, you did take full advantage of the situation. You didn't keep up your end of the deal. You had said numerous times you were going to come get them, and I even offered for them to go at no charge (for feeding, general care, etc.) and that didn't happen. You couldn't come in the time I allotted. I spoke with my attorney (so yeah, you guys can forget the small claims court crap) and he advised me to give you 10 days. You didn't come get them, so that was it. I couldn't do it anymore. I know a lot of people who have been in the same situation and they have done the same thing. I don't regret what I did, but I do regret agreeing to care for them. What's done is done, so if you want to let it go that would be great. I know of a lot of things you have done to others, but I won't mention that because it's not my place. Why don't you just let it go? People who know me know this was not my intention, but I was over it. I don't appreciate the threats and childish name calling. Grow up.

Also, I no longer have ANY of your animals (I will give you the names of those who do if you're interested) or your cages. Get over it. I barely have anything left. I even had to sell some of my animals to pay to help care for yours. You knew I was in the process of buying my home. You were living at home. Maybe no job, but also no rent, or any other expense. You didn't care. And all you care about now is trying to bash my name. That's fine, whatever helps you sleep at night. Why didn't you just borrow another 1k from that Ray guy and pay to have your animals shipped back to you? I gladly would have done that since the original plan was for you to go overseas. You didn't go. I know it's not easy to find a job, but it's not that hard. You are ridiculous. I don't have to explain what you've done to others. You've made a bad enough name for yourself already. You're not welcome back here.

atblover said:

I spoke with my attorney (so yeah, you guys can forget the small claims court crap) and he advised me to give you 10 days. You didn't come get them, so that was it.

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That's not exactly legal to do, and I don't think any good attorney would have advised you of that. A good attorney would never have advised a client to take the law into their own hands. A good attorney would have advised you to allow his office to send an attorneys letter by certified mail - demanding a response within a certain time frame - or else.

In general...once you accept a person property - to care for, store or otherwise - you pretty much assume full responsibility for it. There are legal ways to get out from under those responsibilities should the other person not live up to their end of the obligation. Now whatever those obligations are do not really seem to be clearly defined or outlined - in writing - and signed off by both parties.

So, your suggestion that she cannot take you to small claims court is CRAPOLA. She can and she could probably win in a snap. In fact, those folks who even have her property right now (that you either sold to or gave to) could be considered to be in possession of stolen property and you in dealing stolen property. That's the extreme my dear. You did not handle this the right way and you could be in a bit of trouble right now.

If your bluffing about talking to an attorney, you might really want to talk to one now.

She accepted the 10 day notice, and if I had her address I would have done it by certified mail. I work in a law firm. I would not lie about speaking with my attorney. If he advised me of doing something wrong, that sucks, but that's what he told me to do. I wish this was different but it's not. I was being taken advantage of and I couldn't take it anymore. If she wants to try to pursue this in court, that's fine. This was back in March. If she wanted to do something she should have done it by now. If I cared about the money I would have done something about it, too. She didn't keep up her end of the deal. I wish I had all of this in writing. It would be extremely helpful.

My question is this...if the value of the animals and caging were $4-5,000, and you sold most or all of them, wouldn't it be only fair to keep the money to cover the expenses incurred and return the rest of the money to her? Certainly it didn't cost you that much money to care for those snakes for that amount of time. Seems like that would be the ethical way to go about it anyways. Sounds like there's some underlying stuff going on that's not being said though.

atblover said:

She accepted the 10 day notice, and if I had her address I would have done it by certified mail.

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If it wasn't sent by certified mail, where as a postal employee would verify her identification to both sign for it and release it to her, then it is not exactly sufficient notice. It doesn't matter if you had her current correct address, only that you made sufficient attempts to contact her at her last known address. If she couldn't accept it and it was returned, that is sufficient to go to court to place a lien on the property you had of hers in your possession.

I'm glad you work for a law firm. That only means that you had legal remedies available to you but you washed your hands of it by taking legal matters into your own hands.

Heres another thing.....

If you cant get in contact with a person by certified mail, it could be recommended that you place a small ad in the legal notification section of your local newspaper. In short it show you made every effort. I know it sounds like a lot to do for a little bit, but when you take another persons property you are assuming the most responsibility.

That estimated amount is ridiculous, for one. The snakes were not worth that much, and the caging was in pretty bad shape. I did tell her I would only charge for the food that was eaten according to my records. Also, I provided cage supplies (substrate) which adds up. I didn't care about getting my money that I put into it back. I just wanted them gone.

I am done with this thread. If Sarah wants to do something about this in court, that's fine. I did what I was told to do, and I think this is a personal issue and shouldn't have been posted on here. This was a friendship gone bad. I have never had anyone dissatisfied with business dealings with me. I intend to keep it that way.

-Shannon Craft

Friends like this is exactly why I spend 95% of my time with critters and plants.

I'm sorry to see this issue posted here. You two had a wonderful friendship. The kind of friendship every one of us would envy. Too many times business deals, partnerships, favors, etc have a way of destroying a friendship. That's really sad.

I had very good friend that I had periodically "babysat" snakes for. Everything was fine. One particular year I was burdened with over 15 baby rosy boas, many of which were non-feeders and I kept hearing "it won't be much longer" from him and it was getting old. I finally shipped the following year and had to wait weeks for my shipping money. I felt taken advantage of and haven't spoken to him since. This thing ruined a great friendship.

So I feel for you two both. In Shannon's defense, I know her well (as I do Sarah) and she's not a rip-off artist. She was truly stressed and overwhelmed and was spending money out of pocket on the care of these snakes.

Sarah, I mean this as a friend, I think you're wrong for carrying this on endlessly. This was not a business deal, it was a friendship favor. Nothing about this arrangement worked out for either side; let it terminate the friendship if that's how you feel, but the 1/2 year long bashing crusade is totally inappropriate.

atblover said:

I am done with this thread.

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Now that right there is something a good attorney would advise you of.

No doubt in my mind that if your attorney/employer would read what you've written so far ................................he would tell you to find a new attorney. and probably a new employer too.

shrap said:

Friends like this is exactly why I spend 95% of my time with critters and plants.

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Well polish my petals and clean my nodes.....I'd love to be a plant in your house.

Thank you critical Bill, for the insight that a noticed should have been certified mail. You are indeed right. And if shannon would have answered her phone or returned my call to given me her address to have money sent, then we wouldnt have had that problem.

Shannon, Tim had spoken to you prior to April 12th, about picking up the animals and you apparently had a show to do or go to with your boyfriend. The same show where both he and you wanted to sell my snakes at? As I recall. Am I right? You postponed the date for him to come and retrieve those animals, but changed your mind. As for the cages being in "bad shape" why do I see your ATBs residing in those extoerras? I didnt mind so much the animals were sold to cover your expenses, and time. But what about when I asked if I could have my dry stuff back, and I couldnt get the light of day to get a yes. Your pissed off becuse now everyone sees what you did to me, and its not going to be flagged on reptilegeeks.

I am not by any means saying I was a completly inncocent party. I didnt take a job oversees due to a dying family member. If I could have had a job the day I step foot back into OK, I would have. But the sad truth is, my family barley could afforded me to move back, let alone my 20 snakes in spare bedroom taking up hella power. I had to get food stamps for a month just so we could eat. So dont even tell me about hard times, my friend ray loaned me a grand to get back here to get me out of a bad situation, not to get snakes back. By the time everything was said and done, I had 28$ ti my name when I made it back here. I took and kept the job at petco, just to survive. I offered to reimburst you. But obviously outright selling those animals made you more money.

critical bill said:

Now that right there is something a good attorney would advise you of.

No doubt in my mind that if your attorney/employer would read what you've written so far ................................he would tell you to find a new attorney. and probably a new employer too.

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I don't think your sarcasm contributes much, but yes, she did well by deciding not to post anymore. She posted her comments about the issue & told her side of the story. As far as commenting on every other posted comment and opinion, that would just turn this into another 40 page thread like you see all too often.

Nothing to add on this thread in particular, but rather on the topic in general:

I have learned the hard way that boarding animals for a prolonged period of time is a bad idea. I've done it 3x - one time was fine, one time was okay but stressful, one time (also the last time) I lost half the animals I boarded. After that I decided never to board again.
That last time was with a supposed "reptile rescue" and I was willing to pay whatever they needed - I was just starting grad school and wanted to make sure my snakes didn't get neglected, so we met halfway and I gave them half my animals. Then I guess they had a kid with some serious congenital defects and things went downhill, and suddenly my snakes are dropping like flies. I drove 20 hrs round trip in one day to get the remainder back. I feel bad for the folks except I wish they'd told me they weren't able to keep up with the snakes - I knew they had some problems with a baby but I didn't understand what and every time I asked if the snakes were too much work they said everything was fine.

Anyway, without knowing the story here I don't know who, if anyone, is really a "bad guy" but if anyone out there is thinking of boarding their animals for more than a month, think really hard about it. You can guarantee their care if you're doing it yourself :/