JEFF LIVELY OF LIVELY EXOTICS

How We Were Messed Over

HOW WE WERE MESSED OVER

It started about a month ago we made a trade. We had 1 male 5ft boa and 1.1 jungle carpet pythons, so we decided to make a trade deal with this guy for 1.1 blood pythons.well he got the snakes we sent in two days, when it came to us getting the bloods all kind of excuses came up including one of them died so he had to get another one.Well it took about 3 weeks for us to get them i was on the verge of posting about him back then. Well we got the bloods about a week ago and they did not look like he described we decided not to send them back cause it was already so much we went through to get them. so just yesterday both bloods died they smelled horrible like they were dead for weeks. so we asked him did the first blood he promised us that had died did he know what it had and was it contagious and was it housed with the live one that he sent. he said something about stomach toxins and that it was not contagious.he said he cant do anything cause he had no proof that they were dead. and that we should have taken pictures or sent them back. I was not about to let those snakes stay over night in my house smelling the way they did, and i wish the thought of taking pictures crossed my mind, but when you are so upset you dont think about that. we thought he was a resonable guy and would understand and if nothing else send our snakes back that we sent him, but he is not. He had the nerve to beg us for help in a situation he was going through but he refuses to do anything about this situation now..People beware if you do any business with JEFF LIVELY OF LIVELY EXOTICS be carefull because what he shows you and tell you you will be getting is not true. He said he has been ripped off before well we have too and we dont like it therfore we would not do it to any one else...also he claims the bloods were healthy and eating well they werent we tried feeding them exactly how he said he did and they would not eat..we certainly learned our lesson we just got ripped off again by JEFF LIVELY. HE STATES THAT HE DOES NOT SHIP FIRST IN TRADES THATS BECAUSE HE WANTS YOUR ANIMALS BEFORE YOU CAN SEE THE CRAP HE IS SENDING YOU .IF ANYONE OUT THER KNOWS WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THIS SITUATION DONT HESITATE TO EMAIL THANKS. JEFF LIVELY IS A POOR BUSINESS MAN AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE EVERYONE ELSE TO TAKE THEIR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE IF YOU WANT QUALITY ANIMALS THANKS AGAIN. We arent the only ones that he has sent an animal to that wasnt what they purchased. he has photos of decent animals and send you crappy animals. i believe he had sold our animals even before he sent us the bloods otherwise he could have just sent them back when we first had problems with this deal.

Bill & Kim,

Sorry about your loss. You might want to consider posting more detailed information: dates, emails, etc.

There is also another post regarding Jeff Lively that might offer more insight here

Also, for future reference, it's more effective (and part of the rules of the BOI) to post the person's or business name in the title of the thread so it's easier for people to find.

Good luck working this out.

HOW WE WERE MESSED OVER BY JEFF LIVELY

TO ALL WHO HAVE READ, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE MISTAKE OF NOT PUTTING THE BUSINESS OR NAME OF THE PERSON IN THE TITLE OF THE POST. I WAS SO ANGRY I GUESS I FORGOT THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW OF MY MISTAKE

I love posts like this!

Hypothetical situation: a person goes to Wal-mart, buys a toaster. Takes the toaster home. Decides something looks fishy with the toaster, but desides to plug it in and use it anyway. Toaster catches on fire and dies. Person throws toaster in the trash ("because there was no way that thing was staying in my house one more day"). Person returns to Wal-mart the next day and asks for their money back. Wal-mart asks to see the toaster, person says I threw it away.

Sorry about your loss, but you ain't gettin a new toaster!

If he sent different snakes than what you were promised you should have sent them back. If he had a policy for replacement of the animals if they died within a certain time, you should have taken avantage of it. But you do not throw away the toaster folks!!!!

I've got to start selling stuff on the internet, people seem to be more than willing to just send money and animals to any idiot with a web site. Hasn't anyone ever heard the phrase Caveat Emptor??? Let the buyer beware?

Bill & Kim,

Sorry to hear about your loss, but without proof of the sankes' deaths, you're not likely to get anywhere along the lines of getting recompensated for them. I guess that can be chalked up as a "lesson learned" for you all.

I do have a couple of questions for you though. Did you all initiate the trade, or did Jeff? The iniator of the trade should always ship first, and it is because of that unwritten rule, that I would NEVER initiate a trade with anyone I did not know and trust BEFORE the deal. Also, you wrote, "we thought he was a resonable guy and would understand and if nothing else send our snakes back that we sent him, but he is not." If this guy does have some sort of a fatal disease infesting his snakes, why would you want the ones you sent to him back?!?!? You have to assume that they've already been exposed to whatever this is, don't you?

how we were messed over

everyone who posted about this situation thank you.. we would like to say that yes we have learned our lesson we will never ship first again, if the other party does not except well then we will wait for another deal.and for those of you who posted negative feed back thank you for there is a lesson to learn from it, and those of you who continue to think that you can keep scaming people and get away with it well you have a higher power to deal with in the end.. and you are right we dont want infected animals back, therefore who ever plans on buying from jell lively beware you may recieve some of those infected animals. whos to say that if he did compensate us that he would not send more infected animals. believe me the animals we get are quarintined for at least a month, they are always seperated in their own cages unfortunatley the bloods did not last that long.... thanks again for all your feedback

no proof no refund

hi. this is JEFF LIVELY. first off, i never mis-represent any of the animals i sell. i tell it straight as that is how i would want it done. as far as bill and kim. yes there were some delays which i will take the blame for. now, when i received an email from them about the bloods i was concerned. but, why would they just email me about them when they had 2 phone numbers of mine? when i asked for pics of the dead animals or for them to send the corps' back, they told me no they didn't have any pics and they got real pissy with me. that tells me they are lieing about it. if it was me the first thing i would do is take pics so i would have proof and there would be no question about if i was lieing. about the trade, they initiated the trade, so they ship first. if i initiate a trade i always ship first. in my terms, it states that in the case of a death, i must be shown the corps' or pics in order for me to be able to compensate for the loss. they had the terms. they said, they thought i could by pass that for them. if i did that, what is the use of me having that procedure in the first place? I HAVE TO COVER MY BUTT TOO. i am an honest person and do not rip people off. from the way they are acting, i truly think they are just mad cause they didn't get over on me. sorry to bill and kim. but without prof there is nothing i can do. i am sure many people will agree with me on this. thanks

JEFF LIVELY
LIVELY EXOTICS

reply to jeff lively

first of all mr lively when all this started the two phone numbers you are referring to we could never get a hold of you you would never respond to any of our messages until we started emailing you and saying we feel like you are trying to fraud us.. secondly we never asked you to make an acception for us we did not get pissy you were the one who got pissy and you still are.. we just contacted you and told you what happened i dont call that getting pissy.. just by calling us liers dont mean we are the lord knows who the real lier is ...thank you

I know this does not sound like a fun task, but if they were just thrown away yesterday can't you just go outside into your trash and take a picture?

Darn good idea, Rozann!!!

OK, who wants to post the entire email exchanges? Jeff? Bill? Kim?

I'd be most interested in knowing:

1) when they were shipped

2) when they arrived

3) when Bill & Kim told Jeff they didn't like the looks of the snakes

4) what Jeff's response was at that time

5) information about the other snake that died

I've personally met the Rivers quite a few times over the past year and a half, and I've dealt with them business wise while working for a good friend of mine at his reptile shop. I'm sorry to post that these are fairly uneducated people that seem to do anything to get something for nothing! So if you have thrown the snake out, why not go find it and snags some pics? Hell, if you need someone to bring a camera to take a couple pics of the dead blood I'll do it, we live in the same town. It would not take to much time out of my life. I for one do not truthfully think Jeff Lively is a fault. I the past I recall you have repeatedly kept a good majority of your snakes in conditions that caused them to develop URI and who knows what else. The conditions you kept many snakes in the past could easily cause and animal to go off feeding. As for stating that this guy has "infected" animals, what do you have to back this up? Simply nothing! No vet report and no body of the snake. You are standing on a weak limb, and unless you husbandry practices have changed dramatically I bet the death of the blood was primarily your fault. I still repeatedly see your ads up at Wal-Mart and a local pet store saying you'll adopt snakes from people that have grown scared of them for growing to large (if I remember right, you were scared of big snakes as well), or if the people can no longer take care of them. I then saw you post snakes you "adopted" shortly after for sale. Your dealings in the past are shady to say the least. Until I see otherwise any claims you make against someone are not to be trusted.
Thanks
Justyn

response

we threw them in the trash the night the died it was late when we discovered them and trash was picked up that next day belive me when we emailed jeff about it and he told us i did go outside to get them out and send them back to him but the trash was gone but its over with now and i guess not sending evidence was our fault.. but at that time it did not cross our mind its over and done with now its another learning experience.. everyone if you do a trade and the animal dies please keep your evidence

Somehow I knew the trash was picked up the next day.

Jeff Lively - GOOD GUY!

I would like to step in and say that I believe Jeff has 100% great animals. I worked out a trade deal with him. and I got my first snake, and beautiful 4'+ guyana redtail. She's been here two weeks, she's wolfing down whatever we give her, and she's gorgeous! He also gave thorough warning that the only reason that she was cheap was because she was very aggressive. He didn't try to pass her off as a nice docile snake and get alot more money, he was just plain out honest.
I'd also like to say. the second animal I was going to get from him, he called me and said he would not feel comfortable shipping, and she wasn't acting quite right. He didn't want to risk her coming in sick to me so he instead offered to buy a different one for me, or refund my money, at my option.

Jeff has been a good upstanding guy, and though I will give The Rivers that it is sometimes hard to reach him every moment of the day, he does return calls and emails as quickly as he can and it's always within 24 hours.

I'm sorry to The Rivers for losing a snake, but honest I can't even imagine throwing a snake away. I believe throwing dead animals away is considered a bio hazard and is illegal most places.
I bury all mine, no matter the length of time I have them. The "we threw it away the same day the garbage came" is a fishy story and I don't blame Jeff at all for not buying it.
Live and learn, next time you'll know that they need to not only be kept. but they should be refrigerated immediately so I post mortem can be done to determine cause of death.

Allison Brunner

My opinion

I dont know a whole lot about either of you and I dont know the whole story about what excuses Jeff may have made and what he did wrong, but from the evidence we have from Justyn and the rest, and the aliby from Bill and Kim it seems that Bill and Kim are the ones making the excuses now. I have read all the posts and it looks like Bill and Kim, you are in the wrong. At the beginning I thought Jeff was wrong, but I have read many posts about him being a great guy and then Justyns post about you keeping herps in inhumane ways, etc it finished it off. The fact that the trash man happened to come by the next day adds to the suspicion but it could just be bad luck. Sorry about your loss, but dont try to turn it around on a good guy. This is just my opinion.

for justyn and marcy

first of all you people dont know us and we dont know you and you have never been to our house so whoever you are posting for give it up you are straight up liers and you are definatly uneducated yourself going around postin lies on innocent people for which ever stupid person you are posting for thank you very much kim & bill

Man! I wish people would stop sleeping through English class!

NO better proof you someone's educational level than their ability to communicate.

to everyone

evryone who read justyn and marcy ad to enlighten you on a little information where we live ther is a guy that own a pet store and he sells bad sick animals well justyn use to work for him and treated people bad when they came into the store . why would we be scared of big snakes when we have 9 and 10 fters ourselves they have never been in our home and dont know us personally..anyway the guy justyn works for does not like us i just today he sent us a nasty email he thinks we are going around town giving his store a bad name even though we know the truth its not us saying these things we arent that evil hearted. well anyway god knows the truth . we dont have sick animals and dont want our animals around sick animals thanks for your input justyn and marcy but you can keep your lies. everyone in town know how you people and your shop is thats why you cant sell your green burm on kingsnakes thats been ther for almost a year cause its sick probably about to die thanks kim & bill

its over and done with

we just want to say to all its over and done with we lost some animals all around.just becareful who you buy from cause some people can believe you and some cant and we have noticed that a lot of people chose to believe the lies in this situation from all who posted them [justyn and marcy] but god knows the truth cause we have no reason to lie god bless you all kim&bill

Hey, watch out slinging mud all over everyone, it will come back to you! Please do not resort to personal attacks, it will hurt you more publicly then you will think. I just wanted to respond to your last post and to post an e-mail I just got from you via the message board (edited for content).

This is a message from bill&kim rivers at FaunaClassifieds Forums (
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/index.php ). The FaunaClassifieds Forums
owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.

To email bill&kim rivers, you can use this online form:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?action=mailform&userid=3982

OR, by email:
mailto:[email protected]

This is the message:

you mother f**kers dont know us and we dont know you if you are working for
keep yall all can kiss our a*s and you damn sure have not been to our house to
see what conditions our snakes are in so you need to shut your mouth on that..
if anybody has sick sorry as snakes its you and deffinatley keith of chamelon
counters tell him that

First of all people trust my post because I am fairly well respected in the reptile trade. I have earned respect, and I am happy to say I am a fairly knowledgeable dealer that cares about the animals he offers. I am also a great guy to get along with and will go out of my way any day to help someone out (I remember many times that you came to me repeatedly for advice).

Second, you are right I have not been to your house, but you consulted both me and Keith while I was at Chameleon Counters for various problems you encountered due to improper husbandry. You kept animals in Tupperware’s without heat and wondered why they developed URI. You came into the store and asked to hold (physically) several snakes on several occasions, which caused Chameleon Counters to have a temp. problem with mites. Since then Keith and Sandra at Chameleon Counters are very weary of this happening again. You asked us (me, Keith , and Sandra) for advice on serious infestations of mites and how to get rid of them. You described your setups to me in detail in the past and repeatedly I told you that was the cause of many of the problems you were experiencing with your collection. You tried to get used rat bedding from Chameleon Counters to rub onto raw chicken legs to feed to you snakes although I do not recommend doing this due to health issues.

Third, it is funny you mention the green burm. They currently have two sub adults in stock and both of them are extremely healthy animals pounding large rats in a heart beat without delay. I also understand that you tried to purchase one of these snakes from Keith on at least one occasion and Keith repeatedly declined your offers (low-balling him)

Fourth, while Keith is a very good friend of mine, I am not responsible for his actions in any way. He has a mind of his own and can do as he pleases without any effect on my life. With this in regards I am not sure while you are bringing him into this except to explain he is a friend of mine and I know you from working at Chameleon Counters. If you would like what Keith e-mailed you, please do so, but I should not be included.

Well, I think (I hope) I went over everything.

Thanks
Justyn