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sschind
03-29-2002, 01:52 AM
This has been discussed before but I think it is worth another go around.  I think that these claims about not being responsible for carrier delay or error are BS.  If you take a person's money for your product, you are responsible for making sure that that person gets the product they paid for.  Plain and simple, They sent you money for your product,  you have an absolute obligation to get them that product.  Is it your fault that the carrier lost the package?  No it isn't, but the point isn't regarding who's fault it is that the package was lost, the point is who is responsible for getting the product to the buyer?  You are, the seller.  The carrier lost the package, it doesn't matter.  You did not, fulfill your obligation, the package didn't arrive (or arrived late and the animals were dead) you owe replacement animals at your expense, or a full refund of every penny the buyer sent you.

Now if you and the buyer can come to a compromise, so be it, but the buyer has no obligation to accept anything other than full replacement, or full refund.

I know that this is not the most popular notion with most of the shippers here, and most will have some sort of disclaimer regarding carrier delays.  Like I said, it's BS.

Steve Schindler

HallsHerps
03-29-2002, 02:09 AM
Steve i think you have a lil point going but to say a seller is responsible for delays or lost packages is a lil obserd. As you may know not many places will accept snakes as a form of shipment KNOWINGLY, so as for those who ship by way of deception i can see your point , BUT for legal carriers  i think its a lil overboard to hold the seller responsible for the shippers delays or problems . As most of know if it wasnt for the simple fact that the only way 80% or possibly more can get good animals is buy having them shipped then in your way of thinking each seller should hand deleiver the product? or have there own people do shipping ? in that case the $100 snake would no longer cost $100 but would incure all the costs of say a east to west coast drive ? would you be willing to pay a seller $1000-1500.oo for a $100 snake?  i can say that i personally would not hold the seller at fault if any problems occured that you stated , UNLESS they arrivd dead , and it was some fault of the seller . dont take none of this wrong but i cant see holding a seller responsibl for a shippers delays or loss of product  unless the seller states  this in there disclosure to the buyer ( which not many will )

southamptonherps
03-29-2002, 05:02 PM
I don't think you can hold a seller responsible for shippers delays. But if your the seller; is not taking responsibility good business. When I sell a animal I take personal responsibility for it until it is in the hands of the buyer. If something goes wrong with the shipping I make it right. To me that's just good business. IMHO

franklinedwards60
03-29-2002, 06:02 PM
I'll have to say it is an order by order deal. Because on large orders I tell the buyer upfront that I will only guarntee via Delta. The reason for this is becuase AirBorne or other carriers are more apt to open a package that weighs 45 lbs that says live harmless reptile then say a 2lb package. As for the losing a shippment I've only had that happen a few times and the animals arrived in great shape, just a little late. That is where good packing comes in handy. Other then this everyone else has covered all that I could think to say. Frank

Ciro Spina
04-02-2002, 01:47 PM
I don't have time to look up terms, but legally, seller is responsible.  If the price of the contract is more than 500 and concerns the sale of goods, the UCC applies.  Now, if the seller is a merchant and the buyer is not a merchant, the contract is FOB buyers place.  This means that the seller is responsible until the goods reach the buyers hands.  I am reciting this off the top of my head and am not sure if this is a correct interpretation of the law, but if someone has time, go get a copy of the Uniform Commercial Code.  

Ciro Spina

LadyChaos
04-02-2002, 05:58 PM
the main thing that bugs me is people that are not around for a delivery. I generally give people a choice as to what day is good for them to receive their reptiles, email or call them to give them the tracking number, and check it myself the next day to make sure everything got there OK....an email or call from the person whom I sent the animals to is the last step to assure me that everything went well. If someone isn't around to sign for the package, I see no reason why I should be responsible for the animals...the person I was sending them to had plenty of warning that their new darlings were coming.

come to think of it, I think I'll include info like this in my "fine print"

sschind
04-03-2002, 12:14 AM
Nicole,

your scenerio would not fit under my original post because the package was not delayed.  If the receiver knows a package will arrive on a certain day (and he has agreed to that day) and he is not there to receive the package then yes, I believe you are relieved from further responsibility.  as long as you can show that a delivery attempt was made on the agreed upon day and no one was around to receive it.  it is then their problem.

A few pointers from someone who has not sent but has receved many shipments.

As a shipper, NEVER send without getting an acknowledgement that the date is OK.  I would send an email a couple of days in advance saying something like this.  "I intend to ship your animals on (insert date)  I will ship them on that date if I recieve an acknowledgement.  If you do not respond to this email I will not ship on that date and I will arrange a later delivery."

Several times I have opened my emails to read messages like "the animals were shipped yesterday, they should be there by noon"  on a few of those occasions I had not been notified that the packages would be shipped, or even that my payment had been recieved.

When it comes to shipping, NEVER take anything for granted.  Don't assume that the receiver knows the package is being shipped on a particular day.

If a few common sense rules are followed, 99% of all delivery related problems could possibly be eliminated.

And to Southhamptonherps, you are the only one I have found to have the "good business" sense you alluded to.  At least the only one to say so up front.  it's something you should be proud of.

Steve Schindler

Winston
04-09-2002, 05:42 PM
well what do you do if the animal arrive dead in a trade? do yous hip the original trade animal back or should you pay for them

let me know

Thanx

Winston <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Pithons
04-09-2002, 09:07 PM
this is my policy, which I think is most fair.
I guarente live delivery to nearest airport. If buyer wants overnight, I ship between 5-8pm and have the package arrive before 12noon the next day. My policy for that shipping method is, shall the snake not make it(death), I can refund HALF of the purchase price. And I let the buyer know this before payment is make. I also say, someone has to be there to sign for it, and if a delivery attemp is made and not one is there, I CANNOT give any refund. I think this is most fair. I say it before hand and the buyer knows my policy up in front in my emails. And I save all my emails and print out the tracking #. I also monitor the tracking #, and if I see a attemp was there, I call the shipping Co and tell them to redeliver it, and I also get an address of where the package can be picked up at, and email this information out ASAP. Again, its not my first choise to ship overnight.

Whos fault is this one, ok: I sell frozen rats to someone in the winter for 2 day mail. I use ice packs, and the shipment arrives there in 5days, not 2. The rats smell by then and the buyer refuses the box, then asks for the all money back. Day 6 I get a call from the shipping Co, and they say they will not bring the box back to me because it smells too much. Box is throw out? And now, I get a email from the buyers. Whos at fault here? (oh yea, the shipping Co, wouldnt take any fault of give any refund)

HallsHerps
04-09-2002, 10:31 PM
why 2 day ? on frozen food?
no offense but would you have a meat compnay send you t bone staeks via 2 day air? on that &nbsp;i would have told the buyer i only ship next day &nbsp;or even same day but not 2 day just to many things can go wrong on that type of shipping method .

franklinedwards60
04-09-2002, 11:08 PM
&lt;b&gt;2 days on frozen rodents.&lt;/b&gt;
For 2 day you'd have to use at least 10 lbs of dry ice to ensure they would arrive frozen. Then it would cost the same as only using a couple pounds overnight. You need to work on the way you ship if you want to survive in this trade; or you can send me your customers.
It amazes me some of the stuff I read out there.

Yvonne Hastings
04-10-2002, 09:54 AM
I am new to the hobby so I haven't experienced any problems shipping but I have had problems receiving. &nbsp;In January I had 2 leopard geckos shipped and while there was someone available to sign, the carrier didn't knock or ring, just left the delivery notice. &nbsp;I had to wait until he was finished with his route to get my geckos. &nbsp;By that time they were alive but cold. &nbsp;Then last month 2 more were supposed to be here by 12 noon. &nbsp;They didn't arrive until 11:30 that night. &nbsp;The only info I could find out about them was that they had been sent the day before and were in transit. &nbsp;Has anyone else had this kind of problem and if they had died, who would have been responsible? &nbsp;Lucky for me the breeder not only sent me nicer girls then what I was expecting but also included a 48 hr heat pack.

Yvonne Hastings

LadyChaos
04-10-2002, 07:18 PM
sometimes it helps to have animals shipped to your workplace...having a tolerant mailroom is generally the issue &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

I admit, I cheat...I have all my arrivals shipped to my mailbox, so someone is always there to sign for the package...plus they call me as soon as anything comes in. The usual reaction I get? &quot;Cool, what did you get this time?&quot; I'm thankful I have people working at my mailbox that aren't petrified of reptiles.

sschind
04-12-2002, 12:17 AM
After thinking it over I realized I could have worded my original post a bit better.

Instead of putting the focus on carrier delay and asking is the seller responsible, I should have said something like this.

If I send you money for an animal (or any product) who is responsible for getting me that product. &nbsp;YOU are. &nbsp;No, you are not responsible for the carrier losing the package, but you are responsible for getting me the animal I paid for. &nbsp;

Take the carrier out of the picture for a minute. &nbsp;You got your money, I didn't get the animal. &nbsp;Should I lose out? certainly not. &nbsp;Should you lose out? &nbsp;It may not seem fair to you as the seller but since you are the one that initiated the whole transaction by offering a product for sale, then yes, unfortunatley for you, you should be the one to lose out.

As I said before, I think if an compromise could be worked out to the satisfaction of both parties that would be the best scenerio, but a compromise shouldn't be expected from the buyer.

Again, if no one was home when they agreed to be, that moves the responsibility to them. &nbsp;

Winston: &nbsp;As far as the trade, If I recieved dead animals I would not pay for them or ship my animals. &nbsp;As far as shipping them back, if that is the only way to prove they were dead then yes I would ship them back at my expense. &nbsp;The original sender has the responsibility to get me live animals, but I have the responsibility of providing him with a satisfactory reason why I am not completeing my end of the deal.

Pithons: &nbsp;Same deal. &nbsp;You got money to provide frozen rats. &nbsp;he didn't get frozen rats so you have to make good. &nbsp;The key to this seems to be that you did not get the rats back (the shipper threw them out) It seems to me that if it can be shown that they arrived after 5 days it would be safe to say they would not be any good so I wouldn't think that proof would be an issue. &nbsp; Besides, as others have pointed out. &nbsp;2 day mail is not the best way to send frozen (or live for that matter) animals. &nbsp;espescially since the 2 days is not gauranteed by the USPS. &nbsp;You should have sent them overnite.

Steve Schindler