Bad Guy Exotic Reptile Jungle Bad guy

Bought a 16" Mata Mata and it died withing 48 hours. When it flipped belly up, I found five areas in the plasteron which had been ground down past the bone, and sores on the bottom of the feet. Exotic Reptiles told me that it was vet checked before being sent and was considered A grade for sale. Would not replace defective animal. Told me the severe damage was done after I received it. I don't need to tell you it would take months of living in a rough bottomed cement pond to create that kind of damage. I have ordered two shipments of reptiles in the past five years and the one before this was even worse then this. It was a Egyptian Cobra from Crutchfield. Picture included. I would not have posted the one about Crutchfield because he gave me my money back on it, but he told Exotic Reptile Jungle I was a trouble maker for wanting my money back on it so here it is laid bare.

You Should get your money or the animal replaced.As for Tom I have done buisness with Tom for 30 plus years and could not imagin him sending that snake at all.He gave your monety back so a bad guy on him is null and void.I would bet any thing he did not pack that snake.It had to of been brokered or a big mistake happened he in no0 way would of done that on pourpose no way

Richard,
If you want to talk about your transaction with Tom Crutchfield (or post pics of the snake from that transaction), please use a thread about him. You made this thread about Exotic Reptile Jungle

Richard,

Can you ask for a copy of the vet records on the animal? If it was vet checked, they shouldn't have an issue sending you a copy of the records. You purchased that animal and should be entitled to the vet records that come with it. I have adopted and animals in the past and they always come with vet records so you know the medical history on the animal when you acquire it. Age should not be an issue here - I've gotten medical records on something as little as 8 weeks old. If they refuse to send you medical records, then I would think something was up. Even purchases I've made - if the breeder or seller tells me the animal's been vet checked, it comes with the documents. I would never expect a customer to just go on my word that an animal was healthy; and if I spent the time and money to take an animal to the vet to reassure the customer it was healthy, I would definitely send the records to the customer for their own reference, should they have to bring that animal to the vet later in the future.

Furthermore, any businessman that would straight up tell you that he was told by another fellow businessman that you were a trouble maker is not following a very good business code of ethics. To refuse to give you your money back on the basis that he heard you were a trouble maker is very poor customer service, and makes that man (and the man who told him) lose credibility since he can't comply with a better code of ethics and handle the situation without resorting to derogatory remarks.

Did you inspect this animal upon arrival? If you did, did you notice anything wrong with it?

If I were you, I would:

A. Demand a copy of the vet records. If the animal was really checked, this shouldn't be an issue. If they refuse to give them to you, try and get a necropsy on your own to see what the issue was. If it turns out the problem was on their end, I would pursue it from there.
B. Try and post the conversation exchange in here. Did you email him? Call him?
C. Try and work something out, professionally. Most reputable sellers guarantee live arrival only, but I have seen a few that offer 72-hour guarantees. Do you know which policy they have?

Good luck and take care.

Could you please post any email exchanges you had with ERJ?
The TOS posted on their website is pretty self-explanatory and concise as far as guarantees/claims and time lines on claims.

I agree the damage to the plastron is not fresh; it's reprehensible that someone could have that animal in their possession and not be actively treating it, let alone sell and ship it. "vet checked before being sent and was considered A grade for sale"? I think not.
Yes, absolutely ask for a copy of the vet check that pronounced that turtle Grade A.

In reading the ads for their Mata Matas (and other animals), it would sound more like they don't have their animals vet checked prior to sale/shipping and their animals are only in "apparent" good health.

From their ad:
"A great selection of mata mata,s in stock. Both males and females ranching in size from 12 to 15 inches. Pricing from $225 Plus shipping.

OUR ANIMALS: We make every effort to obtain healthy & first quality animals from our sources worldwide in order to provide to our customers only the highest quality animals! Unless otherwise indicated, the above animals are wild caught imports, in "apparent" good health, however it’s strongly recommended that all newly acquired animals (captive born & wild caught) be quarantined, or checked by a vet, & treated accordingly. It is not our practice to un-necessarily medicate our animals (this includes the use of Antiparasitic medications.)"

That said ... why would you not thoroughly inspect something as important as a WC turtle's plastron immediately upon receipt? Or, if you did inspect, did you contact ERJ after receipt (before it died) to let them know of the injuries?
On the flip side, they do strongly recommend their animals be vet checked, obviously not unsound or unwarranted advice.

Bottom line is a buyer is out his $, another helpless animal was snatched from it's native habitat, suffered and died. Damn shame.

At the very least, you should be able to get a decent replacement, I would think.

If this is the same company I'm thinking of, the guy in charge is Andy James? About 4 or 5 years ago I conducted a trade with a guy named Rocky that supposedly was partners with Andy James. I traded a croc monitor for a large group of venomous snakes. Last year I either called or emailed them because I was interested in some snakes they had for sale, and when I brought up the trade to the guy on the phone to see if they remembered me, he goes "We would never do any kind of trade like that...we don't do trades here". I thought that was strange, but besides that...the trade that I did with them years back went alright.

No one from ERJ stated that Tom Crutchfield said anything derogatory about you Richard Ritchey. You assumed that and sent us an email stating the same. But come on, how many times have you tried to claim animals on us? Remember all the dead rinkhals that somehow got better? What about the blacksnake that you did a surgery on and couldn't sell and couldn't pay for and then sent back that was still HOT? If someone with credibility made such an accusation about a mata mata we shipped them, I'd do something about it, but that isn't even the animal we shipped. We had a recognized turtle expert at facility tending to our water turtles literally a week before you ordered that animal, and he took one mata mata to tend to, that one we shipped was not unhealthy... Good try but better luck next time... ERJ

PS.... Tom Crutchfield would NEVER have shipped that animal! Not a chance in Hades.

Bullocks

Wow I just read your entire envoice Toms letter and every thing .How dare you smite the name of a man who made this hobby.You are a total liar and a scum to try to tarnish Tom.Tom Has not even spoke with erj in over a year.He returned your 85 little bucks and posted it in a letter to you.Let me tell you about tom .He use to send me money with out any reptiles and I would head to the desert and fill what he needed.He has recently done more than that for me he is and always be my friend you make me sick.

IDIOTS

He DID SEND THAT ANIMAL FREE AND SAID HERE IS A FREE SNAKE LOOKS BAD BUT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO USE IT OR SAVE IT IT IS FREE THANKS AS I CAN NOT SELL THAI ANIMAL TELL THE TRUTH AND DO NOT TRY TO MAKE TOM LOOK BAD

Good people

I have been dealing with ERJ for several years and have never had a complaint. I have always got first class animals. Reading all the threads, It looks and sounds like you are a scammer and you just got busted. I guess the B.O.I does have some good points after all.

Richard Ritchey your unwillingness to reply to the above posts speaks much louder than your initial post. I have been to Tom's facility, and found it to be in nearly sterile condition. I can't and won't believe that he would have ever tried to sell you that snake. I could believe that he gave it to you, with the hopes that you could get it back to health because he may not have had time to treat it. Tom proudly showed me every venomous snake he had, and every one of them appeared flawless, and healthy. Likewise, nobody could ever convince me that Andy (from ERJ) would ever sell and ship out a mata mata that was in the condition that your posted pictures display. If you claim that he did send you that animal, why did you not call him as soon as it arrived to tell him that the animal was in unacceptable condition??? The two mata matas I saw at ERJ were kept in large black plastic or rubber enclosures that, in my view, could not have sanded down any part of the animal. Like Ricky said, “Nice try!”.

Once again, this thread is not about Tom. The OP should never even have brought that issue up (if, in reality, there even was one), so let's stay on (ERJ) topic, please ... and thank you.

Mr. Richey ... you want to post photos of a badly neglected/injured turtle and make accusations? You should be prepared and willing to answer questions/provide input.

This thread is about Tom he tried to put a blimish on HIM.That is the only issue I see here he will not even answer posts.I can tell you that I do not know erj at all but Tom is a world renownd dealer that does not need this crap pointed at him.When you use someone as an example of a bad guy you lit the fire on my ass and I am burning now you just do not know how bad.I have dealt with most of the big guys all the way back to the Shed and LOUIE PORRIS.nOT ALL ANIMALS ARE GOOD ALL THE TIME.But in this day and age Tom has taken the time to supply top quality low end as well as high end animals.You mess with him you mess with the foundation of this entire industry.I will continue to defend Tom on this thread and any one can say what ever they like but know this my silence will not happen.Shame on any one who says this is not about Tom his name is here and his reputation will stand long after you small fry are long gone.TOM CRUTCHFIELD AN INDUSTRY STANDARD TRY TO LIVE UP TO THAT.

Ricky Duffield said:

No one from ERJ stated that Tom Crutchfield said anything derogatory about you Richard Ritchey. You assumed that and sent us an email stating the same. But come on, how many times have you tried to claim animals on us? Remember all the dead rinkhals that somehow got better? What about the blacksnake that you did a surgery on and couldn't sell and couldn't pay for and then sent back that was still HOT? If someone with credibility made such an accusation about a mata mata we shipped them, I'd do something about it, but that isn't even the animal we shipped. We had a recognized turtle expert at facility tending to our water turtles literally a week before you ordered that animal, and he took one mata mata to tend to, that one we shipped was not unhealthy... Good try but better luck next time... ERJ

Click to expand...

Ricky,
I think age is starting to sneak up on you. If you go back on your sale records you will find that I not only never bought nor owned a Rinkhals Cobra or a Blacksnake. You will also find that that shippment was sent to Kevin Smith in Gresham, Oregon who had been practicing venomoid surgery (butchering) if you ask me. I saw the Rinkhals you sent him and I know as fact they did not die. Sorry he ripped you off. If you had called me I would have let you know he was not a good guy to deal with. You were not the only one to get ripped off by him. He was chased out of the state by the animal Control and moved to Louisiana. I forgive you wholly, and will not think of this event from now on. The truth shall be known the day we die.

Richard where is that heart felt apology to Tom .I think your lies have cought to you mr liar.I have had acess to your invoices you are a liar . shame on you

Ha-ha, Richard, I've still got email correspondence from back in Sept. 2002 and beyond regarding the blacksnake, check your emails, that snake is still in someone's collection and he remembers who did the supposed surgery--but that's not the issue here. YES, I do know Kevin and you do too... You guys worked together... Anyway, I'm done, I don't usually get involved here on BOI but Tom got dragged into this and I did not want to remain silent. If I came off cross, it was not my intention. PS: you bought more than tice in 5 years, I have invoices where you bought from us in 2008... Forgot???

Ricky Duffield said:

PS.... Tom Crutchfield would NEVER have shipped that animal! Not a chance in Hades.

Click to expand...

Attached Message
From: tomcrutchfield1 <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:48:38 -0500

Ritchie, did you not read the handwritten note that I wouldn't ship anything like the snake normally and that I would return your $$$? Please call me with your cc #.

http://www.tomcrutchfield.com

All that means is he liked you. I know quite a few people including myself who took it up the rear by tom. We live so far away, we just considered it the cost of doing business.

Attached Message
From: tomcrutchfield1 <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:48:38 -0500

Ritchie, did you not read the handwritten note that I wouldn't ship anything like the snake normally and that I would return your $$$? Please call me with your cc #.