Jimmy Pickett, and Oscar Parsons Trade.

Well heres the situation.

I traded Jimmy known on here as Jimmy P, 8 Bearded Dragons, hatchlings

http://oregonstate.edu/~parsonso/pictures/beardeddragons/hatchlings/Dec1102/dragons2.jpg

These guys for 1 kimberly rock monitor.

http://oregonstate.edu/~parsonso/pictures/kimrock/Feb 19/kimmy.jpg

Shown here

I got him on feb 19th. He died after, I have pictures of him dead. I took him to the vet twice for a total of 250 dollars. I alerted Jimmy that he wasn't acclimating well. Jimmy replaced him, with a pair of yellow ackies on april 2nd(this is about two months after the first animal problems. Their arrival was very stressful as they were mailed late on the first and slated for a two day delivery. I took time off of work and drove to a city 40 miles away and hasseled the post office to give up the package. Today I found the female of the pair of ackies dead. I have no idea why this animal has died. I can find no holes in my husbandry and the male of the pair is fine. I can only attribute it to a pre existing condition. Now I did tell him I thought the ackies were doing fine, and he was interested in buying hatchlings if I hatched out eggs. However there was no warning this animal would die.

I was told two of the dragons that were smaller had died, and Jimmy said nothing of getting compensated for these animals.

I however have lost 2/3rds of the animals I have been shipped and I have spent more than 250 dollars on the kimberly I recieved, I have had my heart broken twice by animals dying.

My problem is I would like to be compesanted for my loss here. I have put out effort and money trying to get this to work. Jimmy stated on the phone that he stands by his animals and wants to keep a good reputation. However as of today he says he does not want to work with me in any way, other than to find me a vender to buy a new ackie, to resolve this situation.

Jimmy has stated that I have had the animal too long and it is not his fault in any way and that I am out of luck in getting any sort of compensation or any sort of replacement. Let me quote

I realize you went out of your way but if they would have died at the post office because they were late then the postal service would have take care of it because they were insured. And it would have been the post offices fault. But when they left here they were in perfect health; they were my up and coming breeders; and you had no complaints so I will not replace her it is not my fault (one more time if you don't get it this time call

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I removed his phone number. I contend that he could exert some more effort in to this deal we had. I'm not expecting lifetime warranties on animals but at least a month. These animals never even had time to acclimate. I spent time and money producing the hatchling dragons, shipping those dragons, housing the kimberly, vet bills for the kimberly, the burial of the kimberly, getting the ackies and housing them, and now burying the female ackie. Have one male ackie to show for it.

Ackie pairs seem to be running 480.00. I have one left. Thats 240.00. So for spending the time and money with 8 dragons at 50.00 is 400 dollars, and the vet bills 250, and the shipping, 55.00, and gas.. and.. and.. feeding dying animals..

I end up with 240.00 worth of quality animal from him, after putting out 705.00 that I can quantify, and lots that I can't. I'm looking at a loss here of roughly 450.00 dollars on this deal.


Am I wrong here? Am I out of line? I feel I've been wronged and that he can do more to fix the situation. I'm very close to the situationso maybe I'm a bit biased. So I'm inquiring. What should be done here? Should I shut up and bury my monitor and leave him alone? Or should I keep working to get some sort of compensation?

I leave it to the board to help out. I emailed him and told him I was posting this.

So Let me know what you think. I have a log of most of our email corespondance too. I've tried to be very polite and also forgiving and generous in this deal.

Thanks for your help.

Oscar Parsons
541 738 8522

Sorry Oscar.. I don't really see why you should be compensated for your loss.

-You had the herps for a long enough time that something you have done could have caused the problems.

-He already replaced the original monitor with two ackies

-He says he has lost some of the beardies that you traded him for the monitors

-and most importantly... no money was exchanged in the trade.. it was a herp for herp trade.

Jimmy Pickett

OK Oscar And whom ever else:
It started with a trade for one Kimberly Rock Male to Oscar in return I was to get in trade * 8 bearded dragons 8" to 10" one fresh hatchling ( I got 8 bearded dragons yes but none were over 6" and two were dead with in the first two day) But that is not the point . With the Kimberly male he let me know right away something was wrong, Cool I'm glad he did ; The first time he E@Mailed me I told him to send him back, Oscar did not want to , so I said ok keep me updated and Oscar Did. When the male finally passed Oscar E@mailed Me said he died Iasked for pictures of the DEAD MONITOR on its back and holding him by the tail . Oscar said ok; after waiting a week for the Pictures I E@MAILED him agian he said he couldn't do it ;( take the picture of the dead monitor because he was to attached) I told him for any kind of exchange of the Ackies I would need to get the pictures for my record. He got right on it . I got the Ackies sent out as soon as the weather and cash would allow. When Oscar got them he had to drive like 40 miles to get them got them home and E@Mailed me they were ok but a little cold . So I E@MAILED him back keep me updated on the ackies (no problem) 6days later I E@mail him actually I Instant Messaged him how are they doing his exact responce was great digging and eatting. I took that as a good sign. About 6 more days went by and Instant Messaged Oscar agian; same responce. COOL never heard from Oscar again. Then nineteen days after he received them he E@mails me the female died and wanted a replacement SORRY Oscar 19 days is along time for anything to happen. If it was my fault my Guarantee is and will always be the same 24hour notification of any problems you might with the reptile or any problem you think the reptile to have, and LIVE ARRIVAL period. I will work with any body and offered to find him another female ackie from a freind ( at a good price by no he wanted me to give him one) sorry Oscar 19 days is to long I don't mind working with somthing ;but on the day 12 everthing was doing great and I'm the one keep updated you didn't even take time to do that ( most other people would have excepted it as a done deal and would not have IM'm you at all for updates , but I did care anouff to contact you but after 12 days of you being happy with them and them Eating good for you (THE DEAL IS DONE) Like I said in my E@Mail Sorry for your loss and if you would like to actually call; go for it you have my number .

And for anybody out there disagrees with me so be it. There is always two sides to every truth but this is my side.

Oscar Really sorry for your loss.
Later Jimmy Pickett
[email protected] feel free to E@Mail me with any comments. (anyone I don't check this very often)

one more time thin I'm done

Oscar I did not tell you to take him to a Vet I told you to send him back home ,you said, you wanted to keep him and try to get him over it . Ididn't say spend $250.00 on any Vet. bill Sorry I didn't read you post be fore I replied Just give my side of things. Thanks for everyones time Jimmy Pickett

Hey I'm not looking to make you look bad. I'm a little distraught and asked other people for their opinions.

I don't know. I just feel I'm ending up with the short end of the stick. I guess thats ok then.

If someones family dog died I don't think they would want to hold it by the tail and take a picture. I never took the picture of the animal my fiance did. Another thing about sending him back. I simply do not believe he would have survived the trip back. I could not as a moral person put an animal on a flight that I did not belive it could survive. My FIRST concern was the animals life. I spared no expense, in order to keep him alive. I also could not ship him back and undo the 'trade' because according to him some of my animals were already dead. I didn't want him to ship them back to me and risk their deaths and the kimberlies death.

Either way I lose, I get 6 of my animals back or lose the 250 dollars I just put into an animal as well as the money I spent setting him up just to pay more money to ship him to his death I also took time out of work to make vet visits.

You told me that you thought she was gravid. Was it really wise to ship a potentially gravid ackie? I told you that I could wait over and over.

You told me in an email that no matter what I do, you won't change the way you feel so am I wasting my time? I guess I am. Maybe some one else will avoid making the same mistake and not make a trade.

I sure hope the male makes it. To me an established adult animal that was properly taken care of should not die within 3 weeks as hardy as monitors are.

I guess I lose. Good luck. Thanks to the other people for their input.

Well he can't be a breeder now, and I feel bad keeping him alone, and Its not like I can sell him. Everything else I got from him died shortly after they arrived.

I'm keeping alot of animals currently and I haven't had ANY trouble with anything other than what I got from Jimmy.

I guess I'll take the corpse to the vet and get a necropsy so I can find out why my animals are dying.

Oscar

WOW

This is a tuff one. First off let me say that I have seen the time and effort put into Oscars animals firsthand. That being said, Jimmy you are probably correct in saying that time was up. I know whenever I talked to Oscar the Ackies were doing good, This morning I got a shocker when he told me the female was dead. There is one thing that is really bothering me though.
You said that if he would have left them at the post office and they died it would have been OK because they were insured. First why would anyone(in the reptile business) send reptiles through the USPS. And 2 day at that. We live in OR and when the Ackies were shipped it was cold here. Second how do you get the USPS to insure something that they wont ship. He would have been SOL.
Or he would still be trying to get the problem taken care of. I am not trying to take anyones side here, but I being in the business also would NEVER sen an animal(especially ones worth that much money) 2 day mail. Other than that I guess this is between the two of you. I hope that something good can come out of this bad situation.

Good Luck
Darin Gray

Technically I think he shipped it next day. To be honest I thought he shipped them UPS. I even emailed him that the tracking number wasn't working. Then I discovered it was USPS and the lady I talked to at the post office was shocked that it was supposed to be next day because the office in AR should have told him it was a two day shipment if he shipped it as late in the day as it was.

When I opened the box it was cold inside. I got them out immediatley.

I don't know I simply thought he would stick by his animals more, this IS the second time this has happened.

To me it was all about the animals and how to let them live better or feel better. Thats why I took the kimberly to the vet, and why I went way out of my way to get the animals out of the post office so they could survive. I don't care what it took I wasn't going to let two poor ackies freeze to death in a box simply because it was insured.

Jimmy said,

Oscar I do stand by my animals but in 19 days I've talked two you twice and every thing was good (because I IM you) you made no attempt to reach me except the first day they arrived. Then all the sudden when things go bad 19 Days later you want to E@Mail me . You do what ever you want on the board of inquires at Fauna; because I know I'm right and nothing else you can say about that will make me feel different.

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So I guess its a waste of time to get another opinion on what happened, or should happen. I lose out. I was ready to let him know about eggs, and I let him know about other events like feedings. I didn't contact him about anything because it was all typical until she died suddenly.

Well until later.

Oscar.

Oscar,

It's nice to find someone who really cares about his animal's welfare. In this instance though, I feel you are out of luck. Jimmy followed-up with the replacement transaction even more than some well-known dealers would do. The animal died well beyond his guarantee period had expired and previously you had told him everything was going fine. Stuff happens! The only prerrequisite for an animal to die is to be alive in the first place!

Darin, it is not illegal to send lizards or alligators through USPS if they are under a certain size (which I don't remember on top of my head).

Regards.

Oscar, sorry for your loss, but Jimmy went out of his way to make this right. Frankly, he didn't even need to send you those ackies. When you told him the K. was sick, he told you to return it. YOU CHOSE TO KEEP IT! Anything beyond that point was your problem. It's great that you wanted to try and take the animal to the vet and all, but that was outside of Jimmy's warranty. I think he has done more than enough to try and make you happy.

What would you have said if the animal died 31 days in? The warranty was live arrival, he went well beyond that. The vet bills were something you brought on yourself. If anything, you owe him something for the two dragons that died 2 days in. Afterall, he replaced your stuff.

Sorry man, I don't see it your way.

No reason to be sorry. Its not like he would do something if everyone in this entire forum sided with me. It doesn't matter.

I'll just bury the animals and remember not to bother getting anymore.

Don't Give UP!

Dude! You can't let this get you down the way it sounds like you are. This is not an exact science. Disappointments happen to everyone but the successes far and above make up for the times it doesn't work out. Get over it and get yourself a nice female to go with that male. It will be all the more rewarding when it finally comes to fruition with some offspring.

Noone is at fault here, the deal just didn't work out as well as everyone hoped for but that is no reason to give up entirely. With an attitude like that this hobby wouldn't even exist!

Holes in your husbandry

Oscar,
There are many holes in your husbandry. When things began to go downhill with the kimmie you were given a lot of great advice an how to improve your husbandry. The advice came from many different people with a lot of monitor experience. Some of those people actually breed kimmies.

When the monitor finally died, you blamed the very people that were trying to help and began harrassing them. This led to you being banned from at least one forum and a chat room.

Now to replace the dead kimmie, this person sends you two new ackies and one dies after three weeks in your care.
My suggestion would be to learn about a species before acquiring them, set the environment up before purchasing, and then you may have more luck.

There are quite a few books available on monitors as well as a few websites that outline proper care.

I don't see how the person that sent you the animals is at fault, the animals were in your care for weeks before they died.

You really should look in the mirror.

I followed the advice of those individuals when it applied to my situation. Most people said, 'treat it like an ackie and change thinks'.

I didn't harrass anyone. YOU tell me whats wrong with my setup and I'll change it I DO still have one animal that is alive I would like to keep him that way, until I find him a new home for him.

Its fine you don't beleive its Jimmy's fault. Its not that he will do anything about it anyway. I haven't contacted him since most of the posters here agree with him. No problem, for them at least.

And when you want to take shots at my husbandry maybe you should come over and see what is REALLY going on. As far as I know I've never spoken to you not over the phone and certainly not in my house.

I was banned from varanus.net forum, I was told it was because I was asking stupid questions and I had a total of 10 posts, must be because they were terrible. And the proprietor of the website still refuses to remove my images from the page. If you consider asking him to remove my images after he refuses to harrassment then thats fine. As for being banned from the chat room its the same deal. I'm removed for 'interupting'.

I don't blame anyone for the kimberlies death. No one could have prevented his death.

Besides. If being interested in monitors means I have to spend all this money and break my heart and even after doing all that have my 'methods' insulted when I have consulted books, *I do have some, one of them IS signed by Daniel Bennet*, websites, KS, varanus, proexotics, all of which are respected for providing truthful information.

I do have some sort of idea of what is going on, I DO have a BS in Biology, I DO have a clue.

So enjoy your time taking shots at me.

I criticized Frank for not being as helpful as he could have been. I did not BLAME him in any form. I was told he kept the species and I was told he was successful with them, I asked him when he was alone with me in the chat room and he WAS active he refused to even speak to me about it when he KNEW I had a sick animal that he could have possibly helped with because I wasn't a .... I dunno good friend, best friend, fan boy, whatever.

Then I got banned, and people like you seem to seek me out to ruin my reputation, why is that, did I ruffle someones feathers that much?

Thats fine I guess, the only thing I produce is beardies. I've got 14 eggs in the incubator, and I think that will be the last clutch I allow my female to produce. I don't want them going to bad homes. I'm not going to bother getting new animals either. I guess I better go get a pass to the zoo so I can see some.

Sound better to you? I'll just stay out of your 'hobby' and your friends hobby. Does that sound better? That seems to be what you want.

Doesn't matter I'm out.

IMO - Jimmy's got the right-of-way... You're out of warranty.

I bought a male albino Cal King last summer from a reputable person, and it died about three months later. He told me it was a little skinny when I bought it, and I informed him it possibly had a minor URI. I even emailed him when the snake finally died. Know what he told me? I'll give you a deal if I ever have something you want to purchase again. I was happy with this... Why? Because I had the snake for three months. I opted to NOT send it right back to him.

Its fine you don't beleive its Jimmy's fault. Its not that he will do anything about it anyway. I haven't contacted him since most of the posters here agree with him. No problem, for them at least.

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Oscar,

From what I read none of the replies said it was yours or Jimmy's fault. We said that his warranty period was over. When you bought from him you accepted his terms. He even followed up with you for several days and everything was going fine. If you buy a car and your warranty expires that's it, you are not covered anymore. Any further repairs will come out of your pocket.

Regards.

Right I agree. I'm stupid. Any one else agree?

He's not on any sort of hook. No problem. No bad reputation other than mine. I'm the one it died on not Jimmy.

Sound good?

Good luck Jimmy with your future animals, and all of your future sales.

O

Oscar,

It seems as if my communication skills are playing me a trick tonight.

Right I agree. I'm stupid. Any one else agree?

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You did nothing wrong. Jimmy worked with you for longer than most of the dealers will. In spite of this, the animal died. The cause? Unknown at this point. Was it due to a previous ailment? Difficult to tell, but in your words it was doing fine and eating. Things like this happen. As I stated previously the only prerrequisite for a living thing to die is to be alive in the first place.

He's not on any sort of hook. No problem.

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Let's suppose I buy the male ackie from you. How long of a warranty are you going to give me. One week, two, one month? What are you going to do if after that time expires I call you and tell you he died?

No bad reputation other than mine. I'm the one it died on not Jimmy.

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Bad reputation because an animal died in your care? Absolutely not!

I was reading Ralph Davis site and he wrote in there that a female breeder ball python unexpectedly died. Do you think that gives him a bad reputation?

If someone tells me he never had a reptile die under his care I would think that he has not been keeping herps for too long.

Don't get discouraged!

Regards.

Alvaro is 100% right. Sometimes you do everything right and still experiance unexpected death. I've had it happen too. Don't be so hard on yourself. Jimmy did right by you as far as I can tell, and maybe went a little further than some would. Don't give up. There is a loser here only because of the dead animal. No one did anything wrong that I can see. It just happens sometimes.

Wes Pollock