FaunaAuction.com??

[WebSlave]

This was brought up in the Discussions About This Site forum and thought I would post it here. There is also a discussion about herp auctions on the BOI that may be pertinent as well.

So here's the question I want to pose:

Is this worthwhile pursuing? There are several other auction sites out there, a couple of which even advertise on this site. None seem to be getting very much traffic, so is that because there is just a lack of interest in live animal auctions?

Danni Wilson had an auction program all ready to set up on the older version of FaunaClassifieds.com right before James Thornton pulled the plug on us. Personally, I did not feel that the time was right for something like an auction. But maybe that's not true any longer.

Yes, I can certainly set up a plain and simple auction board, but it would be a lot of time and work on my part, and to be honest, if I can't make a couple of dollars off of the effort, then I have better things to do.

This will be a very simple poll: just YES or NO.

YES means that you would like to see me do an auction board and are willing to pay a VERY nominal fee to participate in something like this. Meaning sellers will be charged a small percentage of the sale. And membership fees for both buyers and sellers will apply. The fee will be VERY reasonable, but it will be the ONLY way to control membership to REAL people whom are serious about this idea.

NO should be self explanatory, and no reasons are necessary. Something like YES - but only if it is FREE, is not an option.

So let me know.

Thanks.

[Corey Sawyer]

I vote yes. I would love to seen a quality auction. The pay system will weed out the minor frauds.

[The BoidSmith]

I agree with Corey. My suggestion though will be that both the seller and the winning bid pay a minimum amount. That will discourage the dead-beat bidders that seem to be a big problem with other auction sites.

[jim scharphorn]

YES

[cahrens]

Sounds like a great idea to me. I don't agree, however, that the buyer should also be charged. You're already paying for the animal and more than likely shipping. The seller is the 1 making the money. Let them pay the fee. Something definately needs to be done about dead-beat bidders though. Perhaps charge them some type of fee if they don't go through with the deal. That would mean a credit card would have to be on file when registering which would also keep the kids out. Just my 2 cents worth. -Chris

[The BoidSmith]

Chris,

A penalty for not going through with the deal...I like that idea!

Regards.

[cahrens]

Yeah. Something like the fee for listing the ad plus 10% for time and loss of sale and stuff like that. Then not only would Fauna get the fee for the ad but the seller would be protected and it would discourage ppl who are "thinking" about buying something from bidding until they are sure. Still only my 2 cents worth. -Chris

[Ritchie Luna]

if it is quality...
if it is controlled....
Well hells ya :D :D

[Seamus Haley]

The problem with charging the buyer for backing out lies in the time needed to determine if they had a valid reason for doing so.

If they bid on an animal that was supposed to be het for a trait and then find out after the auction it hasn't got papers, there's no way they should have to pay a fee of any sort... the situations that might surround someone backing out are nearly endless, all imposing a fee on the potential buyer would do is make people hesitant to bid.

I'm not saying that there should be no recourse and that buyers should jump in and out of auctions whenever they feel like it, jerking sellers around, just that imposing a financial penalty isn't exactly the right way to go. But if auctions were added to this site, the BOI is just a few forums away, if someone starts yanking around sellers and never completing auction transactions, there's substance for a bad guy post.

Depending on how nominal the fee was, I'd vote Yes, I'd be interested. I'm not a big time buyer so I wouldn't drop $50+ for the ability to browse the auction section, but $10-20 or so for a reasonable period of time (Month or three), I'd spend it just so I wouldn't miss anything.

[E2MacPets]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't ebay charge sellers a % of what the price is listed as when the auction closes regardless of a sucessful sale or not?

i.e. if you list an item with the starting minimum big of 10,000 on that nice car of yours and it doesn't get any bids you're out a good chunk of change with nothing to show for it.


As for charging the buyer who backs out... hmm.. well technically a bid is a contractual agreement to pay and that really falls into the hands of the seller to sue if he feels it necessary. Otherwise the seller could offer the item to the next highest bidder and the guy who backed out simply gets a negative note on his account stating he's backed out. Maybe make it a warning system like here? Certain number of backed out bids (or other violations) and you're gone?

[Clay Davenport]

You are only charged the listing fee on Ebay if the item doesn't sell, and you are allowed to relist it free if I am not mistaken.
Depending on the features you add though listing fees can range from a dollar or so up to $100 or more.

It would be easier to implement a warning system for non paying bidders. I would make it fairly stiff though, with a maximum of third offense resulting in removal of bidding abilities.
Charging them the listing fee though would be more of a deterrant, but may be objectionable to some.
Either way, once it is realized that non paying bidders will not be tolerated, I think the practice would be minimal.

[snkkpr01]

I have to say yes, and if I was going to offer something in auction format I would be more than willing to pay, otherwise I would just list it in the classifieds.

Darin Gray

[The BoidSmith]

Steven,

Yes, you are right the bid is a contractual agreement. But here the main complain of people on Herpauction before and Reptibid now. They are tired of bidders backing off. Herpauction for example charged you once the item was sold, the buyer backed out then you paid.

Seamus,

If they bid on an animal that was supposed to be het for a trait and then find out after the auction it hasn't got papers, there's no way they should have to pay a fee of any sort... the situations that might surround someone backing out are nearly endless, all imposing a fee on the potential buyer would do is make people hesitant to bid.

I hear you. Bur in reality it would be nice to have bidders that will follow through with the deal. When you buy an item in a store you pay a sales tax, even if you choose to return the item afterwards. You would have to register with a valid credit card (e.g. as in the case of Herpauction), that means that off the bat you are leaving a lot of "kids" out of the loop. I'm not talking about a huge amount, maybe 3% of the price?

But if auctions were added to this site, the BOI is just a few forums away, if someone starts yanking around sellers and never completing auction transactions, there's substance for a bad guy post.

Just imagine guys like Taron or Jesse starting to bid on an item! Even having the recourse of the BOI can kill the auction in the medium term.

Regards.

[cahrens]

Seamus,

If they bid on an animal that was supposed to be het for a trait and then find out after the auction it hasn't got papers, there's no way they should have to pay a fee of any sort... the situations that might surround someone backing out are nearly endless, all imposing a fee on the potential buyer would do is make people hesitant to bid.
That's part of the point. Make ppl hesitant to bid on something until they've asked every question they want to know. Make sure it's what you want before you bid. I for 1 know that I would definately not pay to browse and auction site whether I bid on something or not. I do agree that there are some reasons to back out of an auction but I know that I would have made sure everything was in order before bidding or tried to at least. Still only my 2 cents worth. -Chris

[Seamus Haley]

That's part of the point. Make ppl hesitant to bid on something until they've asked every question they want to know. Make sure it's what you want before you bid

Auctions close... people don't always answer their emails in time... wording in ads can be inaccurate and misleading even if not directly and blatantly misrepresentive.

There's a few threads right now that are active on the BOI where paperwork was lost (Or possibly never existed to start), animal histories have become questionable after transactions are initiated and a few examples of misleading advertisements where it's just a matter of personal opinion...

While it's certainly not right to close out an auction and waste a seller's time, things will crop up from time to time and sticking someone who may or may not deserve it with a charge isn't an ideal way to fix it.

I liked the implimentation of warning systems that was suggested... three auctions left unsettled without some substantial causes and the person is no longer welcome to bid.

I do agree that there are some reasons to back out of an auction

Then you also reccognize the negative response that would be elicited from a charge when the backing out was done specifically to protect the buyer. When that animal labeled as "Perfect" turns out to have scars all over it after a bid has already been placed... when the "100% Het for legs, very rare" snake suddenly doesn't have paperwork...

You feel the person who looks at the money they had intended to spend had the animal been properly represented and then decides to take their business elsewhere deserves to be punished financially?

These are all hypotheticals of course, by being attached to the BOI and requiring age verification, those misleading ads and misrepresented animals won't crop up quite as often, but there are lines that I don't think Rich is willing to cross when it comes to telling people their business isn't wanted for subjective reasons or in anticipation of a problem without a concrete history of wrongdoing. Just as an example... it's morally justified to not allow Underhill to post ads or auctions, because he has a long term track record of being a liar and thief. It's questionable when it comes to smaller misrepresentations though and questionable reputations that just don't go quite that far. Take upstate exotics as an example, they've had a few dealings where animals were misrepresented and buyers misled... but they haven't, to the best of my knowledge, actually refused a refund yet. Been a pain in the ass for anyone to get one out of them, but they haven't dissapeared and changed their names or mailed anybody phone books as far as I know.

Moral gray area on allowing some people to post... just how many iffy reports does it take to add up to not allowing an individual to post ads? If they are allowed to post because it's not quite substantial enough to ban someone... is it fair to penalize a potential buyer for their innocent ignorance of a seller's reputation?

[cahrens]

Auctions close... people don't always answer their emails in time... wording in ads can be inaccurate and misleading even if not directly and blatantly misrepresentive.
Good reason to ask questions early. Not wait till the last minute. As far as misrepresentation is concerned hopefully that's where the feedback would come in real handy. I know that whenever I buy something from an online auction I check the feedback of the seller and it either makes me comfortable buying from them or stops me from doing so.
When that animal labeled as "Perfect" turns out to have scars all over it after a bid has already been placed... when the "100% Het for legs, very rare" snake suddenly doesn't have paperwork...
Yeah that makes it tough. I don't feel that an honest buyer should be penalized due to misrepresentation on the sellers part. Who is going to take the time to listen to both sides and make a decision though?
As far as the seller having to pay even if their animal doesn't sell I think that's fair. Relisting for free would be kool if the item doesn't sell. It's no different than if you take an ad out in the paper. You still pay even if you don't sell. Look at it this way....... You're still getting some good advertisement so that makes it a bit better. Still my 2 cents worth. Maybe 3 by now. -Chris

[ksshane]

I think an reptile auction through fauna is a really good idea. I dont think you will be able to charge people for backing out of a deal though. Your going to have good buyers, and bad buyers. As well as good sellers, and bad sellers. But what Fauna does have to offer that the other websites dont is the BOI. If your question a buyer or a seller post the question about that person on the BOI.
On ebay... Just because someone bids on an item doesnt mean the buyer has to sell the item to them.. If the person has negative feedbacks the buyer can actually erase that persons bid.

I think something similar here would be a great idea. Plus we could weed out more of the dead beat buyers, and sellers.

Just my opinion

[WebSlave]

So far, 212 people have viewed this thread.

20 voted YES,
2 voted NO.

And I guess the other 190 don't care either way. Doesn't bode very well concerning my efforts to implement this being worth the effort, now does it?

Perhaps it may be best for me to set up a plain vanilla auction seperate from FaunaClassifieds and see how that goes. That way I can take a look at the trial balloon and either make it fly higher, or just shoot it down.

[cahrens]

Now when you say 212 ppl have viewed this thread is that 212 views or 212 individual ppl? I know that I come in here every time there is a reply so does it count me the 8 or 10 times I've been in here? If everyone does the same it's easy to see how there is such a difference between views and votes. Just a thought. -Chris

[WebSlave]

Yeah, you're right. Views are not unique visitors to the thread. There really is no way to log unique visitors.

Maybe I need to put a link in the BOI for people to come on over here and take a look at this. I don't want to put in the effort if people aren't going to use it.

Thanks for setting me straight.... :smash:

[TheVipersHouse]

well i can say this if your going to charge a monthly fee for use on the auction then i would have to say im not to interested ...
because of the fact that www.reptileauction.com charges you a 1 time $10.00 membership fee to sellers, and then they also charge the sellers a final selling value fee ... ( no charge for listing an auction ) ... but they also dont charge you the final value fee if you get a deadbeat bidder ( but u need to show that you have a deadbeat bidder ) ... so if your planning on charging a monthly membership fee then i will have to say its not worth it cause (u get charged that for kingsnake usage) unless your selling every animal at every auction u post its costing the seller more money then its worth .. and yes i would say charge the same membership fee to the bidders the same exact as what u charge the sellers cause that would make people think twice about being a deadbeat bidder when they see after so many times of screwing people around (for whatever reason) they would loose their membership and their membership fee ... losing money makes people think before they act ...

just my opinion

[WebSlave]

The fee would be minimal. On the order of $10 per year. That would be enough to weed out most of the fly-by-nights. I could set the bar even higher by requiring that the $10 be paid via credit card, since it is a payment medium that would pretty much require a valid billing address as identification.

Charging to place an auction would be something on the order of $1 each. Insignificant, but enough to keep someone from just posting senseless and frivolous auctions at will.

Charging a fee for people to bid on auctions is problematical. It would certainly help weed out the riff-raff, but as a seller, would you want to have the potential bidders weeded out this way?

This isn't some scheme that I think I will get rich over. It is something that I think might be helpful and interesting, but I need to avoid the pitfalls that have plagued other auctions. Otherwise I am just wasting my time.

And again, this is just in the "what if" stages.

[The BoidSmith]

Charging a fee for people to bid on auctions is problematical. It would certainly help weed out the riff-raff, but as a seller, would you want to have the potential bidders weeded out this way?

From what I understood what was proposed was not to charge for each bid, but just the winning bid. If there is an animal that someone is truly interested in buying, I don't see how a $5 fee for example will deter no one from bidding on it. But it will certainly make dead-beat bidders think twice before placing a bid.

This isn't some scheme that I think I will get rich over. It is something that I think might be helpful and interesting, but I need to avoid the pitfalls that have plagued other auctions. Otherwise I am just wasting my time.

Probably one of the main pitfalls was that sellers got tired of was being charged for sales that never occurred because the bidder backed out. If I'm not mistaken that is the concept Shawn was trying to convey. Even if the money for placing the item in the auction was returned, the seller had to demonstrate the sale did not take place. Time and money.

Regards.

[TheVipersHouse]

alvaro pretty much got it on the nose but also what im saying is instead of just letting everyone bid (even with a fee added ) why make the hassle of adding extra money to the bid just to be able to place the bid charge everyone a flat membership rate (i.e. $10-20 a year ) this fee allows you to sell and place bids
and keeps people just off the street from becoming a bidder and causing problems ...
and yes i dont want to see another ebay thats the main reason why i dont sell something there unless i have to cause im tired of paying fees and not selling my item ... i mean if i post 10 snakes @ $1.00 listing fee per thats $10 bucks right off the top and if nuthing should sell and i repost .. that adds up to alot and im not prepared to throw money away if you understand my point .... i dont want to see another ebay .. thats why i like www.reptileauction.com they charge a membership fee and a final value selling fee .. and thats it if it dont sell it costs me nuthing extra .....

[WebSlave]

Probably one of the main pitfalls was that sellers got tired of was being charged for sales that never occurred because the bidder backed out. If I'm not mistaken that is the concept Shawn was trying to convey. Even if the money for placing the item in the auction was returned, the seller had to demonstrate the sale did not take place. Time and money.


I have been to auction boards on other types of businesses and the primary problem I have seen that was their downfall was that unscrupulous SELLERS would cheat the system by claiming that the sale did not go through and they were cancelling the auction, whereas it did, in fact, complete. I have also talked to webmasters running these auctions and another big headache is that many times a potential seller will contact the seller via email, bypassing the auction to attempt to buy it outright. The seller, being able to avoid the fee that way, would many times accept the offer. That's why a lot of auction will hide direct contact details of both the bidders and the sellers.

Certainly the logical thing to do would be to make everything free in order to get the traffic into the auction. But how do you do that without inviting the pitfalls that plague the other auction boards? Registration is useless without some sort of valid identification. And SOMEONE has to do all the work behind the scenes to make this work. To be honest, I'm not willing to do yet another project entirely for free, and the expenses of time, effort and money coming directly out of my pocket.

If a seller cannot afford to spend $10 per year for access to the auction and $1 each on auctioning off their merchandise, then they certainly can go elsewhere. If a bidder does not want to spend $10 on the chance of finding something interesting to bid on, maybe finding a bargain to boot, then they can go elsewhere as well. I think the bar HAS to be high right off the bat in order for this to work the way we all would want it to.

I am looking for a way to avoid the majority of the headaches that have already been noted, have it pay for itself, and be useful to the people using it with a minimum of headaches on either side of the bidding process. It certainly is not possible to please everyone, so I will try to pick the compromises that will piss off the lesser number of people, with ME being highest on the priority list.

Bear in mind, that I am not about to buy into one of these $3,000 high end auction systems for this project. If I see the money coming in justifying an upgrade, then perhaps that will happen, but there is a better than even chance that I might just be throwing away time, effort, and money on this. So version number one will be rather plain vanilla and bare minimum to get the job done.

So far I have not found any auction system software that I like that meets all of my criteria. So there are likely to be compromises every step of the way.

[WebSlave]

Well Shawn, if you like Reptile Auction so much, why even concern yourself with another auction here? I thought people were not happy with the other offerings, and I was asked to look into this possibility. They used to advertise here on this site and I have two other auction boards running banner ads right at this moment. So quite frankly, I don't care either way.

I REALLY don't need something else to do.......

[TheVipersHouse]

well its not the fact that i like is so much but so far its the best 1 running and it does have a good traffic , but i like variety so knowing there will be more then 1 good auction site is always a plus and i can actually see with them they dont have very many problems and if there is a problem its handled fast and effectively .. and thats what im looking for ... and if you can offer the same as them ( protection and problem handling along with reasonable pricing ) i would have no problem spending my money on your auction site but im not out to waste money ..... so its not a concern what i like better verses is there going to be better ????????

[Slither]

If I had the money and time I would start one myself. I personally believe you should base most of the rules off of the way eBay runs their site. After all, look how successful they have become. Most buyers on there feel secure buying and know the risks associated based on the feedback rating of buyers and sellers. They know what recourse they can take if a buyer doesn't pay and if a seller doesn't ship. Follow their example and you are bound to create a very workable auction site. The one real question that still stands is will it be worth your time, trouble, and expense? In other words is there a demand for it. I personally think there is but at the same time I realise even after it is up and running that it will take some time before people start using it on a regular basis and it balances out to a point where people feel secure buying from there. It is a big project and you definitely shouldn't doubt that. But it can be done.

[TheVipersHouse]

well the reason ebay is so sucessful is the fact they handle everything so in fact u really cant compare ebay to much with a reptile auction cause we will be dealing with 1 specific item herps , not 1 mill different items like my old gramas stockings cause they were made back in the civil war .... lmao the fact they handled everything and anything is the reason they became so sucessful not the fact of their rules cause if they were limited to 3 items that could be listed and still charged the prices they do forget it they wouldnt have lasted

[cahrens]

Am I missing something on reptileauction.com or is there only like 5 things listed on the whole site? Is there a link or something I'm not seeing? -Chris

[TheVipersHouse]

chris your deffinitly missing alot of links that are all over the home page

[WebSlave]

Heck Shawn, are you sure you are talking about ReptileAuction.com? I see 6 auctions by you on ReptiBid.com but none on ReptileAuction.com.

I was just looking at the auction software package that ReptiBid.com is based on just a few minutes ago. Looks like a nice package. What is it about that auction that is not to your liking that would make you consider another one instead?

[TheVipersHouse]

whats with ur attitude ?? you wanted suggestions your getting them and now have a snive attitude about it i said once already i like variety , and im trying out the new auction a bit more since the slave came here and posted about the complaints we were talking about that dealt with his site .. its no different if you had yours up and running i would be testing that out as well .. like i said u wanted suggestions and ideas and thoughts about doing the site so ??????? isnt that what ur getting .... your getting feedback about it and thoughts and feelings about it no need to target me just cause i state a good point about something or give my thoughts about it ...

[The BoidSmith]

I just checked it and it seems I'm missing something. Here's what they have right now in ReptileAuction.com, 5 items total. Which are the rest of the links?

Amphibians (0)
Crocodillians (0)
Feeders (0)
Invertebrates (0)
Lizards (3)
Miscellaneous (0)
Reptile Food.Com (1)
Snakes (0)
Supplies/Accessories (0)
Tortoises/Turtles (1)

[WebSlave]

Shawn,

I just asked you a simple question. No attitude at all applied. I like the styling of the program that ReptiBid is using and simply asked you what it was about that site that you didn't like.

And I made a comment based on an observation about your participation in those two sites.

How is that having an attitide? Asking you specific questions is not targeting you, it is specifically asking you for clarification so I understand what you are saying.

Variety is one thing, but generally people whom are satisfied with an auction board are not going to find the need to go somewhere else that provides them what they want.

You are providing feedback and I am trying to understand what it is that everyone wants in an auction board that is not already provided by the other ones out there. You mentioned that you like ReptileAuction.com, yet I don't see any auctions by you there. I am just trying to understand the situation to help me be guided in my decisions on what to do with an auction board I may set up myself.

I am willing to try to fill a need, if one exists, but certainly I am not willing to go through the effort just to give some people variety. I WILL be charging people to use that site. If that is unworkable for everyone, then it is undoable for me. I am the one whom will be spending the money to put up the site. I am the one people will come to with their problems. And I am the one expected to keep it all running smoothly. If someone wants all that for free, then I am sorry, that is not a game plan I am willing to work with.

[TheVipersHouse]

ok then if i read it the wrong way then fine . i must have missed your trying to ask me a question about the site under the targeting of my prefferences of the sites and why i have stuff on one site but not the other ...
what i dont like about reptibid is its freedom theres no control over it as i and a few others have already pointed out i.e. 1.same person /multiple id's to boost their feedback 2. anyone can register to bid ( even underage kids) ... and ur taking my feedback and reading it the wrong way i dont want a free auction i want a COST EFFICIENT auction site not a COSTLY auction site ... that why i made alot of refferences to reptile auction because of their costs are reasonable ... having another site with EBAY format is all fine and dandy but i dont want to see EBAY prices ... i plan to use the auction to make money not spend it all just listing my items .... i mean thats the whole point of selling our reptiles is to make a few bucks over what we have invested in them ... and personally i dont want to spend my profit on listing fees unless im garunteed to sell the item and since there can be no garuntees i would only be posting 1 item and wouldnt post another until that 1 sold just to make sure i wasnt losing money reposting after reposting until i got a sale ... hense the reason i dont use ebay unless i have to .....COST WAY TO MUCH to end up with nuthing in the end .... which does happen ... you cant sell everything all the time ..

and to answer the other questions just cause there are 5 listings for sale doesnt mean there arent more links to the site on reptile auction they have forums as well other links all over the site you have to remeber as well just like reptibid they are still fairly new since Keith bought it and revamped it to what it is today it still needing a bigger client listing but when i have listed tmes before i had over 100 veiws so it has a steady flow of traffic ....

[WebSlave]

And that is what I want to hear about. I wouldn't want to go into this blindly. I've been checking out quite a few commercially offered auction programs, but honestly none of them really seem to hit the spot with me. None would be able to be integrated with this message board to utilize the registration capabilities present here.

Certainly hiring someone to write an auction program from scratch would be way more than I would be willing to spend for that effort.

Sure, I could get the same programs either ReptiBid or ReptileAction use, but is that really what I would want to do? Granted, there would be nothing to prevent me from doing something like that, since this message board I am using here is being used by quite a few sites as well, and no one seems to pitch a stink over it.

So what are the important features you would all want in an auction board? Certainly I hear the complaint about no control, which I think paid registration would solve for the most part. But that has it's own cost, which will be mentioned below.

Something that is very easy to use would certainly be another criteria that seems self evident. I certainly don't want all my waking hours filled with messages from people not able to figure out how to use it.

So what else are you all looking for? Traffic would certainly help, but that's something that just doesn't happen over time, and in many cases is a catch-22. People will come to a site because everyone already goes there. Getting the ball rolling is going to be a big problem, because who wants to spend the money before anyone else is there?

I'm open to suggestions on how best to handle this.

Thanks.

[sschind]

first off, I think ebay sucks, and it isn't the buyers that ruined it for me its the sellers. But that is not what this thread is about.

I would be willing to pay a nominal amount ($10.00/year as webslave mentioned as a possibility) and say a $1.00 listing fee per auction with perhaps one chance to relist an unsold item for free. I do not think this is out of line at all. As far as a percentage of the final bid, I'd be a little more reluctant to go along with that but if it is a small amount I could agree to that as well. I don't like autions with a buyers premium. I just don't think that is right and I probably would not use the auction simply out of principle if something like that were implemented.

A warning system is a neccesity for buyers and sellers alike. I never bid on herpauction.com but a friend of mine said he was the high bidder on several auctions (different sellers) and he got responses saying things like "if you think I'm going to sell them at that price you're crazy" either party not following through should get a warning and thre warnings and you lose your right to sell or bid. One question though. How is winning an auction and not paying any different than emailing a seller, telling them you will take the animal and then never sending the money.

What I would like to see is a penalty for removing an animal from the auction before the time is up. Too many people put animals up for auction at the same time they have them posted on a classified somewhere. If someone comes through on the classifieds they pull the animal from the auction. I'd like to see a severe penalty for this ($10.00 an infraction perhaps) If an animal is put up for auction it should remain up for the time scheduled and the high bidder should be the one to get the animal, I don't care if some one offers twice as much on a classifieds. (also, absolutely no "buy it now" feature)

There are other problems to address but I am sure Rich has considered them, and would ask for more input if the auction moves closer to reality. Short and sweet, I would love to see a decent auction site, and I would be willing to pay for it.

Steve Schindler

[WebSlave]

(also, absolutely no "buy it now" feature)


Huh?

Man, that's the only way I play on Ebay any longer. With the sniping software basically taking over the site, and so many people bidding on there that don't have a clue about how to find things on the net for decent prices, that is the ONLY way to get a deal any longer.

If I am interested in something, I do a keyword search, go to the most recent postings, and scan only the auctions with the "Buy it Now" feature. I have gotten some excellent deals doing it that way. Every other auction I played as a *real* auction, someone sniped me in the last 5 seconds, paying just about what they could have gotten it for on half a dozen websites at their fulll retail price.

In my opinion, the "Buy it Now" price is what the seller doing the auction is willing to sell the item outright at. Anything less than that, yet above the reserve price will be acceptable.

So why would this feature be considered a negative for an auction?

I am hoping to find a pretty comprehensive auction system with a fair number of bells and whistles behind the scenes. If someone starts an auction and someone bids on an item, they are obligated to complete the auction. The sword will swing both ways requiring everyone to play fairly.

[snkkpr01]

will the classifieds turn into a pay to play site also. I really like this site, thought I can never get the search to work. I just want to know if we have to pay for auction will the classified still be free. I like the ideas that Webslave is putting out there as bells and whistles. I think it would be a real boost for this site also.

Thank you
Darin Gray

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

I'm definitely all for a Fauna Auction addition. As a seller, $10/year and a flat $1/item fee is perfectly acceptable to me. I do have some questions, though...

1. After you pay your $10 membership fee, and you place up an item for $1, when the auction is over and the item is sold, are you still going to be charged a percentage of the sale price, or will it be only that $1 listing fee? There is just something that bothers me a bit about paying to list an item, then paying again for the listing when it sells. I know $1 isn't much at all, but something about that just doesn't sit well for some reason. To me, it's like buying a sandwich for $5, but only paying $1 up front, and the rest when your done, it just doesn't make sense to me, and if I am confused or this isn't even anywhere near what you're planning, Rich, then ignore me. ;)

2. My next thing is deadbeat buyers. It's been stated here already, but a membership fee for buyers to bid would probably help curb SOME of this behavior, but for those that aren't bothered by it, what about a warning system like the BOI? You back out of a sale, you get 5 warning points, or something like that. The same should of course be true for sellers who sell items outside of auction or don't go through with their deals, etc. So many points, and BAM you're gone. Also, I don't know how feasible this would be(probably not at all), but what about both buyers and sellers to have a profile link that includes any and all threads about them on the BOI?

3. The kinds of items being bid on, would it be reptiles only(that includes supplies and what not), or would there be also "flea market" auctions for other random items?

Anyway, I would still gladly pay the $10/year as well as listing fees to be a member of the auction site.

[TheVipersHouse]

well rob i can possibly answer that without charging the bidder a membership fee as well that leaves room for deadbeat bidders , and heres why

1.. even with warnings they are able to do it repeatedly until kicked off
2.whats to stop them (as we seen many times here from postings already ) from manking a new user name and falsifing info and continue doing it again ..???? see without being charged a membership fee they really risk nuthing at all but if they have to pay they wont risk losing money or it will deture them from even joining up .... so u see why i am strongly for sellers and bidders to have a membership fee .. and the question is still there about the costs im not looking to losing money everytime i post something that doesnt sell i would rather pay a % of the final sale least im not losing anything if it dont sell ..... but i wont pay 2 times for it now way never

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Shawn,

I was not saying to NOT charge buyers a membership fee. I am all for that, but for some people, $10 is probably not as much of a deterrant to keep from playing games with sellers. I meant adding the warning system in addition to the membership fee.

[WebSlave]

First off, I favor the listing fee of $1 OVER the percentage on the sale simply because I personally know of people whom have run auctions that the sellers using every trick in the book to dodge that fee was their biggest headache. Many would say the item never sold and they were withdrawing it from the market, when in fact it did, when a buyer saw the auction and contacted them outside of the auction.

So there would be a listing fee but NO percentage taken on the sale. If I find that this is a problem, of course I can change that to what works best for everyone. But to be realistic, paying $1 to list something for sale should not be that heavy of a burden.

The auction software is not free for me, and neither is my time.

If I am going to do this, it needs to pay it's way and be as headache free as possible.

It is extremely doubtful that any auction board I have seen can easily be linked to the BOI, which is unfortunate. I could possibly get my programmer to do something like this, but I expect that would be VERY expensive, since it would be a completely custom programming job. I honestly don't have that kind of money to throw into something that may be used only as infrequently as some of the other stuff I have set up here. Maybe if the auction board is used and generates some money, then I can funnel that back into something better.

Any auction board I choose will have a feedback system. Some of them had the capability for the seller to ban a bidder from even bidding on their auction. But I think the feedback system will suffice. Basically it would be a "three strikes, and you're out!" kind of system. Someone paying $10 to register each time would get tired of that in a hurry.

And no, I have no plans to turn the classifieds here into a fee-based service. But I do foresee that possibly the auction board might replace that entirely if it works well enough. Too many unknowns at this point, since just about everything depends on you guys.

This will probably be another of those "horse, water, drink" scenarios.

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Rich,

thanks for clarifying the listing fee for me. It was just something I hadn't understood fully. $1 per listing is DEFINITELY NOT much of a burden, and I would be more than happy to get away with only paying a buck each time I put up an item for auction(outside of the $10 membership fee of course, which is also about as minimal as it gets).

I have been to the other auction sites listed, and my biggest concern there is simply lack of participation. ReptiBid is supposed to be one of the largest ones, right? And last time I looked at it(a few weeks back honestly), there were only 4 items up for bid, with noone making any bids that I saw. I don't want to waste my time and have an animal tied up for a few days on a site with that kind of traffic/interest when I could have put it here or on kingsnake.

I think with the kind of traffic that this site is already getting, an auction that is part of Fauna would work well. Not trying to give out ideas, but I'm sure if Jeff B. decided to add an auction, it would work quite well indeed. I have a feeling the same would be true here(what exactly ARE the traffic numbers here Rich?).

Anyway, bottom line is that I am all for a Fauna Auction site, and I will be one of the first in line for a membership(even though I don't have much for sale now).

[WebSlave]

Bear in mind that the auction will not be integrated with this message board. It will be on it's own separate domain, but certainly linked to this one.

I have been in contact with one of the auction board developers to see how well his product will fit my needs.

[Slither]

Originally posted by TheVipersHouse
well the reason ebay is so sucessful is the fact they handle everything so in fact u really cant compare ebay to much with a reptile auction cause we will be dealing with 1 specific item herps , not 1 mill different items like my old gramas stockings cause they were made back in the civil war .... lmao the fact they handled everything and anything is the reason they became so sucessful not the fact of their rules cause if they were limited to 3 items that could be listed and still charged the prices they do forget it they wouldnt have lasted

My point about eBay was that the whole discussion here is about the rules to deal with non-paying bidders and sellers. eBay has a very good system in place for this. It has nothing to do with what they sell.

[Wormman]

I wouldn't mind. I advertise our auction here, and wouldn't mind. Just don't sell bugs! :0) We really just created ours as a free service. We were told by Reptiles Mag that we couldn't advertise our classifieds there anymore because they have gone online. I think you should do it. I am here more than on my own anyway. Ain't nothin goin on but the rent there! (That was corny!)
Ken Chiarella
Wormman.com

[WebSlave]

Thanks Ken! I really AM worried about stepping on people's toes with this. Unfortunately, the only auction board I have seen that I really like, even with some deficiencies, is the one used by ReptiBid. So if I tromp on his toes, I'll likely lose several banner ads over it. Which might happen anyway, no matter which system I would use if I do ANY auction board.. :(

So doing an auction here will have costs involved beyond the price, time and labor.

And no, I'm not going to be selling bugs, but I would likely have a section on the auction for all feed items.

[Wormman]

Rich,
I like their format also. I will still advertise with you. I may drop the auction, but I will add the advertising dollars to my main business. You are a good man, and provide a great service. Do what needs to be done and you will be rewarded! I'm not leaving and I am sure many others won't. The increase with the auction may even generate more business. Thanks again.
Ken Chiarella
Wormman.com

[WebSlave]

Thanks Ken.

Maybe I could change the look and feel of that auction board enough so that it wouldn't ruffle any feathers. It doesn't look like I am going to be able to easily do what I want, though. I've been talking with the developer, and his opinion that charging for bidders to register is the kiss of death for an auction board, so he has never implemented it. And it would not be easy to do so.

So apparently the only way to do this will be to charge the $1 per auction fee, but registration for both bidders and sellers will have to be free of charge. This certainly takes a lot of control out of my hands over this.

So will it be worth taking a stab at it even without this registration fee? There will be feedback points, of course, so I could simply implement a three strike rule to ban anyone whom winds up being a problem. Will this be good enough?

I've contacted Danni Wilson, whom is an excellent Perl programmer (which the auction software is written in) and perhaps he will be able to help me make some mods. But he is kind of busy now, and it may take a while for him to break loose.

So do you all want to take a stab at a plain vanilla auction board to see how it flies? I'm willing to lay out the money and set it up if the interest is there.

Thanks.

[cahrens]

Ya know even if you don't charge a registration fee or membership fee you could still require credit card info to register. That would make it harder to have multiple identities which someone voiced concern about. What I mean is that if you get banned it would stop you from registering with another identity. With the same credit card anyway. Then you could also charge listing fees directly to the card given during registration. Not having to bill ppl and collect money would be 1 less hassle. Just some thoughts. -Chris

[WebSlave]

Hmm, but accepting credit card info would require being linked through a SSL certificate to encrypt that information. I would not recommend anyone sending cc info in the clear without having it encrypted, so I certainly could not make it a requirement of registration.

Danni seems to think he may be able to tie the registration to the auction with the database here, so registration could be done from this site. But I don't know how long it would take him to find the time to look into it. At least it is a possibility sometime down the road.

I suppose as long as I keep on top of deadbeat bidders and problem sellers, and be rather ruthless about it, then it should keep things in line in the meantime.

[cahrens]

How do you plan to collect fees though? I think it's become a point and click world and you're gonna need a secure site. I for 1 know that I'm actually willing to pay a little more for something if I can buy it online and pay online. It's just so easy that way. That's of course just my opinion. -Chris

[WebSlave]

I don't know the answer to that yet. I believe there will be a direct tie in with PayPal. I may also be able to redirect registrations to my own SSL certificate. I can share my SSL cert with all of the domains on my server. Danni Wilson showed me how to do this little trick.

Yes, I am fully aware of the attraction of "click the button" selling.

I got an email from the developer of the software I am looking at concerning controlling abuse:


Another feature we have is in the config.pl you can setup how many postive feedbacks the users has to have before they can bid on unlimited auction items, if under this them they are limited on auction items they have current open running bids on at a time this you also setup in the config.pl file. Example: the max auction items they can bid on at a time is set at 3 and the postive feedbacks needed for unlimmited is set to 10 then if the users has less than 10 postive feedbacks they can only bid on the max of 3 diferent running auction items at a time. you can set this to what ever.


Might be somewhat useful to do damage control from new registrations with mischief on their minds. Also, I believe the sellers can ban users from bidding on their auctions as well.

I guess like anything else, nothing is perfect. I may have to run with it, "as is", and then hope it can be massaged into something better. Either that, or maybe something better will come along in the meantime.

[cahrens]

That sounds like a great idea. Limiting bids allowed based on feedback. Another question I have is based on what I think is a problem in ebay. I absolutely hate being outbid in the last seconds with no time to bid again. What I thought would be a good idea is if there is a bid, let's say in the last minute, then the auction would run an additional 5 min or whatever to allow ppl to bid again. True auction style as opposed to "sniper" style. Any thoughts on that? -Chris

[WebSlave]

I have seen that on one of the gun auctions I frequent, and as a bidder, I hate it. Takes some of the fun out of it for me. Now I don't like the sniping programs that do that automatically, but I always did like sitting there in front of the screen, waiting to launch my bid and hoping there weren't a dozen other people doing the same thing. Of course, as a seller, I would probably like the auction to be extended as long as necessary to get every possible bid in.

But it depends on if this is implemented in the software or not, and right now, I don't know. I rather doubt it, though. Maybe in one of the $3,000+ packages it may be.

I always thought that auctions should be fun. So if I can, I'm going to try like heck to keep anything I set up along those lines as something that will be fun to do.

I stopped going to Ebay because it wasn't fun any longer.

[WebSlave]

Well, I bought an auction package last night and it is installed on my server. I don't have any public links to it yet, since I am still fiddling with it. But as soon as it is ready, I'll just link it up so going to FaunaAuction.com will automatically crank it up for you.

It actually seems rather easy to modify. I just spent a couple of hours on the formatting a little bit and made the color scheme pretty much match this site. Now I have to delete the stuff that came on the auction and put in my own categories and subcategories. Then do some testing.

There are a lot more bells and whistles than I thought in there. This might actually be fun! I may even use it myself. Of course, I'm going to be pretty much useless trying to help anyone with any problems, since I'm a newbie with that software too.

But some things I want to disable right off the bat. The system can allow a seller to attach music files, which would probably drive people batty. There are also a bunch of "attention getter" icons that are tacky as all getout. I haven't figured out how to disable them quite yet, but I think I have set it up so that nearly everyone will be REAL reluctant to use them. You'll see what I mean....

Gosh! I think this might be ready to go even by this weekend! I think this software has been around long enough that nearly all of the bugs should have been ironed out of it. So I'm not going to beat myself to death too much testing it out. But bear in mind that there may be some aesthetic changes early on as I try to fine tune the look and feel of it all.

One negative thing I did notice is that the auction board software is NOT based on a MySQL database like I had thought it would be. So directly interfacing it with the user file on this site will probably not really be feasible at all. Darn.....

[WebSlave]

I'm about ready to put the categories and subcategories into the auction board. Looks like there are only two levels available to work with so I am thinking of doing the structure listed below:


Reptiles & Amphibians
Snakes
Lizards
Turtles & Tortoises
Amphibians
Crocodilians
Feed, Caging, Supplies & Services
All other herp related material


Insects & Arachnids
Insects & Arachnids
Products & Services


Birds
Birds
Products & Services


Mammals
Mammals
Products & Services


Fish & Aquatics
Fish & Aquatics
Products & Services


Miscellaneous
Miscellaneous Animal Goods
Miscellaneous Non-Animal Items


Any comments or suggestions?

[The BoidSmith]

WebSlave,

Congratulations! I will be using this FaunaAuction.com as soon as this year's babies are born. Good luck!

Regards.

[WebSlave]

I did discover that I can add additional levels, if needed. So if this gets used enough where people begin complaining, I can easily (I think) just add subcategories under SNAKES, etc, to match what is in the classifieds section here.

But for now, I am going to keep the categories kind of broad. From what I have seen here, it seems to intimidate people to see TOO many categories.

But I just completed adding the categories listed in the message above. Unfortunately, it sorts in alphabetical order, which is not my preference, but maybe I can get around that.

I just need to make up a banner graphic, check to make sure the layout doesn't have any glaring holes in it, and then do some minor testing, and it will be open for business.

Oh yeah, the program has a setting that I can use to credit registrants an amount I can set. So I think what I may do is to set it so that the first 100 or so registrants will get a $10 credit. Of course, I haven't looked closely at this, so this is a 'seat of the pants' statement.

[Uffern]

I guess I'm a bit late posting to this thread.

I would have said to not bother, as it would prbably be more trouble than it is worth. Then I would have given a link to an auction site I like the format of, but it's a little late for that too.

The only thing left for me to say is, what will you do about people who list pseudo auctions in the classifieds, saying they will sell such and such animal to the highest bidder by (fill in day of the week) night. Will there be a warning value assigned to this?

[WebSlave]

Yeah, too late now. Because I have the auction site up. I'm not going to do any more extensive testing of it. I have posted an auction myself as a test, so I'm going to just open it up and let it fly or not.

FaunaAuction.com (http://www.faunaauction.com)

Check it out and see what you think.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

[JasonBrennan]

I think you have successfully found a way to keep "most" people from using the "attention getting icons"!!!!!!! LOL. At first, I thought that must have been a mistake, but after reading this thread, I now understand. It is actually pretty funny.

[Uffern]

Alright, someone clue me in, since I am not about to post an auction. What's the deal with the attention getting icons?

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

Much like on these forums, you have the options, with your auction, to post a thumbs up icon, or a smiley face icon...but these are annoying...very annoying icons that move, and/or have neon colours.

So Webslave has put a price tag of $100 to add one of these icons to your message so it will be more noticeable.

BUT....that's not the only thing you can do. For just $1 or $2 you can have the subject of your auction highlighted, you can change the font colour and size of your description and all.

A few uf us were playing around with it earlier today. I've put up three auctions as a test run to see how things worked. So there's a dutch auction, one with a reserve, and one plain one.

[Slither]

It looks awesome! I'm already impressed by it. Great work so far!

[WebSlave]

Richard - the deal with the "attention getting icons", is that they are downright ugly. I suppose sooner or later I will be able to figure out how to disable the options to select them when you post an auction, or else replace them with something a bit less tacky looking. But for now, the easiest thing for me to do was to set the price tag so high on them, that no one in their right mind will spend that much money to use them. But if someone wants to spend $100 for one, heck, I suppose I can bear up under the strain of looking at it.

So that was effectively disabling them the easiest way I could figure out how to do on short notice.

All in all, I think the auction turned out pretty decent for just several hours tweaking on it. I noticed some things in the code that I need to look into further, but for now I hope this will do the job sufficiently. Already have 40 registered members and some auctions running.

Bear in mind that there is a referral option for new registrants where they can list a current member logon name as a referral whom got them to sign up. There is a $5 bonus applied to the person listed as being the referral source, so if you turn someone on to the auction site, be sure they know your logon ID. That's 5 free plain vanilla auctions for you right there.

There's still more to do, though. The payment options don't have a lot of flexibility. But there is an option to require new registrants to provide a credit card number upon registration. So I'm not sure how that ties into the scheme of things. But that little tidbit might come in handy if and when I need to crack down on bogus registrations down the road.

Anyway, each new registrant gets a $10 credit, so go ahead and use it to set up your own auction. I have a miscellaneous non-animal auction category set up in case anyone wants to try their hand at auctioning off stuff just sitting in the basement. Worst thing that could happen is that you won't sell it, but maybe you will. Who knows?

Hope it is at least fun for some people here. I think I will get a kick out of it myself.

Thanks.

p.s. If anyone has any suggestions about the layout, let me know.

[Stardust]

I have only read the first and last page of this thread, I would have said no to an auction. I really do not trust them.
I am in the market this year to buy, buy and more buying. I do not think I would want to take the time to bid.
However, since you have already put it up, I will take a look and see what is there and at least be open minded about it.

[WebSlave]

I guess it's like all the other sites I have put up. People will either use it, or not.

Something like this is not that much of a burden on me, because I already have the server, and it's running at nowhere near close to capacity. The software wasn't all that expensive, and it didn't take too much effort to get it decent looking.

I may have my hands full keeping out troublemakers, though, but I believe the auction software has some tools to make that easier to do. For now I am giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and have the sheilds down until I need to raise them.

My goal is to have the auction board both fun and useful for everyone. If I make a few bucks off of it down the road, then that would just be icing on the cake.

[Dragondad]

I love it, I am a big supporter of auctions (as my credit cards can attest) I wish you the best of luck with it.

[WebSlave]

Too little, too late, I am afraid.

I gave the auction idea my best shot, but it just did not get the support it needed to keep it going.

Oh well, I tried.....