• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

How much is a genetic stripe boa worth?

The BoidSmith

The BoidSmith

Blocked because of INVALID email address!
INVALID email address
Joined
Feb 7, 2002
Messages
5,971
Reaction score
42
Points
48
Age
117
Location
Midwest
I'm puzzled by some ads posting genetic stripe boas for under $200. Some of the larger breeders are selling theirs (Clark origin) for $10,000 a pair or $4,000 for a lone male. What do people understand by genetic stripe, and what's the basis for their pricing system? As far as I understand genetci stripe is inherited as a simple recessive trait right? Again, to jump or not to jump?
 
To me the term genetic stripe should mean a simple recessive. This means the person would have to either gotten the animal from proven parents or done the work to prove the trait out themselves If the trait is line bred, or if it's an unproven striped animal, it should be indicated as such.
That being said, I know nothing about the trait in Boas except that it exsists.

Erin B.
 
I haven't seen any stripes at those prices, but I don't make an effort to look for them either. I don't know if there's any difference in the strains, but Peter Kahl is getting $750-1000 for het albino genetic stripes and I believe $2500-3500 for albino genetic stripes, so unless there's something really special about the Clark like, those prices are way too high.

The main problem with stripes is, as you know, they can be genetic, or they can be the result of abnormal gestation temperatures. As far as I'm concerned unless you breed two stripes together and get all stripes, I'm not entirely convinced it's genetic.
I have a striped male for instance. This male was produced by a friend of mine from a pair of snakes that produced stripes every year, including at least one that was full head to tail striped.
I do not however label that snake as a genetic stripe, even though it would appear he probably is, and others with snakes from the same line do label them as such.
There's still the possibility that the mother was always kept the same way and had somewhat improper temperatures each year.

Another factor with striped boas is the degree of striping. Genetic stripe in this case doesn't mean it has to be a full stripe. Most common is a striped tail with the stripe extending varying amounts up the back. Fully striped specimens command a significantly higher price than partial stripes, even though both can be genetic.

I do not believe that all the ads claiming to be genetic stripe actually are, but unless you know the breeder and the bloodline, there's no way to tell for sure. It's just too easy to wind up with some stripes which are not genetic by exposing the gestating female to improper temperatures, whether intentional or not.
I also have a female hog isalnd boa with a striped tail. I have no reason at all to believe it is genetic though, and it was not claimed to be such when I purchased it.
 
Just for information, it is generally accepted that striping and other pattern abnormalities are not temperature related in boas. While temps do affect eggs, because the eggs are very suseptible to temperature fluctuations, live-bearers are able to thermoregulate and control their gestation temperatures. The exception to this would be anyone keeping their gravid boa at extremely high or low temps.
 
People probably do keep gravid boas at extremely high or low temps if they can sell the babies for a lot of $$$, even if some come out dead. I'm interested in this question because I have two mysteriously striped sand boas, and I'm waiting to see if they're genetic or not.

Erin B.
 
So far there is agreement then that the trait is recessive and it takes at least a pair of recessive hetero for stripe to obtain genetic striped boas in the offspring. Another question. Has anyone ever seen or heard of a genetic striped Argentinian boa?

Regards.
 
Just for information, it is generally accepted that striping and other pattern abnormalities are not temperature related in boas.

The exception to this would be anyone keeping their gravid boa at extremely high or low temps.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that temperature can cause striping, but it is generally accepted that it has no effect?

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that contradictory statement, but regardless, temperature can cause striping in boas just as it can in pythons.
It doesn't require a constant high or low gestation temperature, just a short period under that condition at the right time. The same is true in pythons during incubation, it doesn't require a constant temperature that is out of range for the duration of incubation.
As another example, I have a female boa that was one of 5 neonates that survived from a clutch of 32. The female was kept at optium temperatures the entire time except for one 8 hour period when the cage temperature accidentally raised way out of the range. The other 27 babies were so severly kinked that they had to be euthanized.
The same sort of accident can result in other abnormalities including striping. It only has to occur at a point during embryonic development where they are vulnerable to the change.
Otherwise what would the explanation be for the striped boas that are plentiful, but never produce any striped offspring. I have no expectation whatsoever that I will reliably produce striped hog island boas, even though I have a female that does have a degree of striping.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a genetic striped Argentinian boa?
Click to expand...
I haven't myself, but that is not to say there has never been one.
 
My concern is that I was looking at a couple of nice looking boas. According to the ad they are genetic stripe, although they are the product of crossbreeding a Colombian by an Argentinian. Anyone care to explain? They are pretty inexpensive too (under $200), that's why I wonder...
 
Re: Clark stripes. Could you be thinking of his Striated boas?

http://www.bobclark.com/d_learn.asp?id=108&cat=learn

If so, different mutation, and I think he and Mike Wilbanks have the whole project. If he's posting any on KS, then they could be the first public offering of the mutation, or at least an early one, so that'd explain the high price tag.

Re: The possible Argentine crosses: If you're just looking for nice boas, without any intent of breeding them, then they're worth whatever you're willing to pay. I'd pay 200 for any nice-looking normal boa. However, if you plan to breed, I'd steer clear of anything of uncertain parentage, especially where subspecific crosses are concerned. I'm not opposed too strongly to crosses within a subspecies, but crossing out BCI to BCO puts me off, as the BCO are threatened or endangered (not sure which, but not many left, IOW) in the wild. Crosses are a hot enough topic that I'd be inclined to avoid them in breeding projects. Just MHO, YMMV, etc.
 
Brian,

I agree with you, I'm not a fan of crossbreeding either. The point I was trying to make though is that I don't see how you can end-up with a genetic stripe boa (actually showing the stripe) by crossing a BCO with a BCI, considering the trait is recessive. I'm not aware of genetic striping in BCO (although I might have missed it), and if there was, even when a crossbred they should be far more expensive than a meager $200.

Regards.
 
marketing ploy

I feel that alot of the stripes I see on the market,mainly tail stripes are nothing more then luck. This is just another way to inflate the value of a normal snake. I feel there is a big difference between a "striped tail" and "connected saddles". I have had many Columbians sold to me as normals that had three and sometimes four connecting tail saddles. this doesnt make them "stripe tail". I recently purchased a 5' female from Rob at RJ's Exotics that had three long connected tail saddles and he gave her to me for $125. A stripe doesnt do anything for me unless it covers at least half the snakes body. Temperature fluctuations can cause striping but seldom do you see severe striping. In all reality, the guy selling the "supposed stripes" for peanuts knows very well that if it was genetic, they would be asking much more. Just another way of squeezing a few more dollars out of unsuspecting people. this is just my opinion and maybe Im out to lunch. Either way, thanks for listening to my opinion. Have a nice day:) Corey Kingsbury
 

Attachments

  • resize orange.jpg
    resize orange.jpg
    32.3 KB · Views: 129
alvaro said:
Brian,

I agree with you, I'm not a fan of crossbreeding either. The point I was trying to make though is that I don't see how you can end-up with a genetic stripe boa (actually showing the stripe) by crossing a BCO with a BCI, considering the trait is recessive. I'm not aware of genetic striping in BCO (although I might have missed it), and if there was, even when a crossbred they should be far more expensive than a meager $200.

Regards.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know how much far more expensive is with stripes, really. What's the market value? Ralph Davis has poss. het albino stripes on his price list for 250-600, which would seem to indicate they're graded by the amount of striping. Kahl's site only has stripes het albino listed. Seems like most people are using stripes in albino projects, so finding one that's not at least possible het albino makes it hard to guesstimate the going rate.

As far as the argentine crosses...beats me. I haven't heard of any genetic striped argentines either. :confused:
 
Clay Davenport said:
So you're saying that temperature can cause striping, but it is generally accepted that it has no effect?
Click to expand...

What I am saying is that if the female was kept at the appropriate temperatures overall, striping is most likely genetic because female boas can thermoregulate whereas eggs cannot. HOWEVER, if the female is kept in overall improper temps (too high or too low) than the striping, or other defects for that matter, can be caused. From a number of breeders I have spoken with on the web and at shows, it is generally accepted among them that the striping in boas is predominantly genetic. That doesn't rule out accidental extremes in temperature or people who intentionally manipulate the temps in an effort to create abnormalities. In short, each case has to be proven out in future breedings, but to blanketly say that the boa's stripes aren't genetic because the price is too low is wrong.
 
What I am saying is that if the female was kept at the appropriate temperatures overall, striping is most likely genetic because female boas can thermoregulate whereas eggs cannot.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what do you mean when you say that boas can thermoregulate. Both boas and pythons increase their core temperatures when pregnant or incubating their eggs, respectively. That doesn't mean they thermoregulate though. Thermoregulation implies adjusting the body temperature according to the enviornmental temperature, and as you know that doesn't happen in reptiles.

Regards. :)
 
OK...Explain to me: Boas can't thermoregulate?

I think you must be using a much different definition of the word than most of us.
 
Brian,

What I meant to say is that IMHO thermoregulation implies the animal can maintain a constant temperature regardless of the environment, thus converting them into an endotherm (as mammals for example). Being able to bask (as any reptile) to increase the core temperature is not (always IMO) thermoregulation, as they will overheat to the death if not allowed to cool off. The body temperature increase during gestation is also independent of the ambient temperature, thus is not a true thermoregulation but just an increase in their core temperature regardless of how warm it is outside.

Regards.
 
Actually, homeothermy is just one of four common strategies for thermoregulation. Ectotherms and poikilotherms are still thermoregulating. Reptiles can maintain a core body temp within a very few degrees variance in the wild. They don't overheat, they have various strategies (aside from the obvious of moving to a cooler environment) for getting rid of excess heat. If an endotherm/homeotherm can't get away from exessive heat...it dies too.

I think the point with boas vs. pythons is that if someone wanted to mess with the coloration/pattern with incubaton temps, it's a lot easier with python eggs. If you take the eggs from mom, you can do whatever you want with them temp-wise, and the only thing at risk are the eggs. With a boa, you'd have to mess with the overall cage temps to get a temperature-induced abnormality, which puts the mother at risk.

In the case of wild snakes, there can still be anomalies, of course, which are just flukes, and not inheritable.

Anyway...did we ever peg the price of a plain old genetic stripe boa? Ralph Davis has striped, 66% het Albino on his site for $250 to $600, which puts them into the same ballpark as graded hypos, pretty much. I'm guessing the possible het albino doesn't add much to the price, since 66% het albinos don't go for much more than a nice normal.
 
They don't overheat, they have various strategies (aside from the obvious of moving to a cooler environment) for getting rid of excess heat.
Click to expand...

Brian,

Could you elaborate on this concept? It is the first time I have heard of it and I'm intrigued. It's never to learn to learn more! :)

Thanks.
 
Well, primarily, moving around is how ectotherms gain and lose body heat. There are also other strategies: pythons can shiver, of course, to raise their body temp, some lizards can pant, some use capillary action.

It looks like I was saying that your statement that they'd overheat if not allowed to cool offwas inaccurate. It's not. My point was that the same thing would happen to us as well, and that both endotherms and ectotherms have multiple ways to gain and lose heat. The big one for herps is, of course, moving. But that's also considered thermoregulation.
 
Back
Top