Herp Criminals

Hey guys,

You know, I have only been in this hobby for a few years, but am still continually amazed by the amount of scammers out there. Does anyone have any theories as to why so many deadbeats are involved in this hobby? I mean, from the very bad guys, like Jesse Underhill and Brian and Rogers, all the way down to that fool who ripped someone off for a $10 heat emitter-they are everywhere.

Now, I know that there are tonnes of wonderful people involved, too. But, to get to them, you have to sort through all of the trash. I couldn't even imagine some of the stories that the major breeders might have.

Why are their so many criminals involved in this hobby?

Gino (Beniquez) from Da Bronx

I'll take a shot at this one

#1 Greed. If there's money to be made there will always be scam artists, from wall street on down to your hobbyists. On the buyers end people are always looking to save a buck or find that great deal. I try to find reputable dealers to buy from. Allthough I've only been back in the hobby for a year and only been online for a year I think I've come up with a decent list of people to buy from. They may charge a little more but they seem to operate like a regular business. If they've set up paypal accounts and credit card accounts they at least warrant looking into. If a seller is to far below the going price I'm a little suspect. No phone or a PO box raises a red flag as does a check made out to a wife, sister, or other party. Clearance sales also tend to raise my suspicions. Although I've had animals shipped through a number of shippers I try to deal with people who ship Delta. All the others create problems if there is a shipping dispute.

#2 Need. People who advertise things like " my male albino honduran died in brumation. I need a replacement adult fast". Or "where can I find a hypo brooksi right now". If I was looking to scam someone I think that would be a good start. People who are impatient or desperate are ripe for picking. Years ago I had a co-worker call me up to borrow some money. It seems someone was selling brand new tvs and he needed some cash. I didn't have all the money so he tried to convince this guy to stop back the next day. The guy told him "I'm a thief I ain't coming back tomorrow". He walked away with Patsy in hot pursuit. He settled for less money. Patsy was thrilled until he got home and took the shrink wrap off and plugged it in. It was filled with rocks.

#3 Bankers. Seems like a lot of disputes are over bounced checks and funds that were promised and not sent. Where is it that says you have to hold a note on these anmals. That's what banks and credit cards are for  If they can't afford it, or they feel insulted when you tell them the check will have to clear first, move on. Most hobbyist are not set up for credit cards but there are these wonderful little convenience checks that are sent with the cards. If I don't have ready cash and they don't accept cards a convenience check works just as well. Same thing for sellers. No excuse for not returning money asap. NO ONE should have to wait for money. It's another thing to pay in installments. When you're paid in full you get the animal.

#4 Most honest people either don't or can't think like scam artists. They are too trusting. I watched on the news a little while back where they set up a scam in a bank with the banks permission. People making deposits in the atm were told they were out of order and that they should place their deposits in a box next to the machine. Next to the box stood a man wearing an official looking rental uniform. You would not believe how many people put their money in this box. This was a scam that actually took place and the news people had to see for thmselves.

#5 Trades. I know this one was hashed over on the board but it seems like a lot of disputes stem from trades. Too much can go wrong. You have double shipping, multiple animals and often times it seems there is no clear cut monetary value placed on the individual animals. I personally would avoid them unless it was a face to face deal with someone local.

Know who you're buying from. Many of us have bought snakes through kingsnake. When I found the site last year I went through every breeder on the breeders page. I came up with a list of people through the forums who I would have confidence in, without having to come to the Board. I never once checked the classifieds section until this year. Sadly many of them will never get my business due to lack of space and time.

I've said enough.
Steve Barry

Excellent post steve, I can't add much but i do have a few comments.

As far as the shipping goes, even at 25 or 35 bucks that fed ex or airborne charge, it raises the price of many individual animals to more than I sell them for in my store.  with the 65 or more bucks that delta charges. it only makes using that method a viable opportunity for very expensive aninmals, animals you need but just can't find, or multiple animals.  I agree that it is more of a risk than delta but for most people it really is the most reasonable option (airborne or fed ex I mean)

I really don't think there are any more scam artists in this hobby than any others.  I have been involved in the sports trading card hobby for quite a few years and let me tell you, there are just as many ripoff artists there.  As with anything, the development of the internet has both helped and hurt this hobby tremendously.  With its afforded anonimity people feel that they can rip others off left and right, and in many cases they are right.  I would guess that only a small fraction of the con artists out there who use the internet get caught.

Steve Schindler
Tropical Oasis

I hear you on the shipping. The local shops in my area just didn't have what I was looking for. I'd much rather do business face to face, but then again I'm around Neils age. For a one animal purchase I'd rather go to a store or a show. If I'm breeding something I guess it's just the cost of doing business. In just 7 months I've stuffed $39 woth of mice down a $25 eastern kings throat. The female is close behind. Probably won't be ready to breed till 04. What's another thirty buck for shipping. No matter how I look at it these guys are a losing proposition. However, they are my favorites and have been since I was a kid.

Now I'm no businessman but some of you guys need to be more careful when posting. As a buyer I check the forums for people that are helpful, respectful, knowledgeable and keep the macho name calling and posturing out of their discussions. Over the years I've worked with numerous relatives or inlaws of disreputable people. I've worked with the wannabes, some killers, some imaginary killers, psychos real and imagined. I gotta tell you I wouldn't do business with any of them. What you put in writing stays out there forever. People don't want to deal with you even if that trail of bodies you left behind is only imaginary. First impressions count. You young guys just starting out, I would prefer when being spoken to on the phone that I not get duded. When it comes to music I still prefer stuff like Godsmack or G&R or Dio but I'm almost 50 and when making a transaction keep it business like. Dude your surfer buddies, dude your classmates, don't dude people on the phone. People are sending money to a complete and total stranger, at least act like you've done this before. Scammers are usually pretty good talkers, level the playing field.

Most important, check spelling. It may not seem like much but for those of you who are really trying to make some money I believe it's important. I'm no spelling champ but I do read every day and some words just jump out at you. Definitely is the most misspelled word on the forums and on the board. I cringe every time I see it. It does not have an a in it. I will not buy from anyone who can't spell it correctly ~ Clean up your spelling. I know it has no bearing on your ability as a breeder or as a cage builder, but until people get to know you I think it matters.

Cheers
Steve Barry

It makes me SICK when people are like that.  It will only come back to them in whatever way.  

THINGS DO COME BACK AROUND.  IT SEEMS TO BE A CODE IN LIFE.  

Iv'e had people scam me a few times and I hate that.  You can never really trust who you're dealing with.  

Alot of people only think of the money and not truelly care about their animals.     It's like, they get an animal, trade it for another one or sell it and then collect the money.  All they care about is the cash.   Yes, people gotta pay rent and get food but to the animal's expense?     What about the snake or lizard that keeps getting jerked around from to shipping box to shipping box?    

THOSE PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THAT ANIMAL GETTING SHIPPED CONSTANTLY AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!!!!!!
(((they know all they are concerned about is the currency&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>))
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