Shipping Guarantees

I've just been reading the BOI for the last few months. It made for excellent and entertaining (and informative) reading during the summer months whilst I was on vacation. I've learned a lot of things to do, and to not do.

There was one thread on the BOI about a person who shipped an animal without styrofoam, heat or cold pack, or insulation. The consensus was that the person who shipped the animal was responsible for the death of the animal. Many many folks jumped on the bandwagon of this one saying that any reputable breeder would offer a live arrival guarantee, and that this fellow's "no live arrival guarantee if shipped via X method" didn't cut it. I read this with interest. At that time I'd only had one snake shipped to me, arriving in perfect health despite a day-long delay on MY end (my fault even).

Since reading the above mentioned thread, I've wandered around the internet and read a lot of shipping policies from some of the most highly thought of breeders. I've seen almost as many shipping terms that are the same as the "bad guy" from the BOI thread as ones that are not. If these "good guys" have "no live arrival" guarantee what makes them different from the "bad guy"?

I know that one big difference is of course that these "good guys" package the animals properly, and perhaps even refuse to ship during certain temperature extremes. They won't back the animals arrival because they do everything in THEIR power to see it arrives alive. But of course there can be shipping errors or some such. The "Bad guy" from the post I'm thinking of had the same shipping terms as them, but packaged his animal in such a way as to almost guarantee it would not arrive alive.

I guess the reason I bring this up is that I am a long ways away from the nearest airport. I cannot drive long distances (failed eye surgery), and really only can get packages delivered overnight to my door. Because of the "bad guy" post about this one person it leaves me wary of ever purchasing from someone who has "no live arrival guarantee" no matter how stellar their reputation. I have seen some very nice animals that I hope to purchase, and I don't want to get dead animals.

Hope you guys can make sense of my rambling post here. Just wanted to talk about these guarantees and about the differences between a bad guy and a good guy when they have the same guarantee

As a purchaser I wouldn't buy from a person without at least a live arrival guarantee, reputation or not. I work hard for the money I have and don't feel like taking the risk of getting nothing for it.

As a shipper, a live arrival guarantee is part of the risk associated with doing business online. I've had very good results shipping but each shipment does open us up to a certain level of risk. Proper packaging materials and methods help to minimize those risks. If the buyer wants them ship via a method or a during temps that I don't feel is adequate then I don't ship. My guarantee goes out with every box leaving our facilities. First of all this is best for the animal. And second of all it keeps posts about you off the BOI. There's no gray area for interpretation. A lot of posts on the BOI are due to miscommunication (both accidental and intentional). Doing business online requires that you be perfectly clear with your expectations both as a buyer and a seller.

Sorry. Last post was by me (dwedeking) not my wife. You'd think I'd learn to look at who was logged in last. My bad.

I agree, communication is essential. Recently I ordered some black rats and some corn snakes from a fairly "new" breeder. I asked for feedback here on the boi and got nothing. Because I live in the US equivalent of HELL (Phoenix) the seller and I have agreed to postpone shipping until temperatures are much more reasonable. Both he and I have been very clear in our communications, and we've both spelled out exactly what is expected from both parties. I'm overanxious to receive the snakes I ordered from him, but have to wait anyway. No use getting cooked snakes when I'm not home to receive packages and the temps are in the triple digits.

I know some breeders have taken to making their shipping a flat rate, with a little extra built in as their own "self insurance" so that if/when something goes wrong, they will back the animal themselves. Everyone pays a little extra, and the shipping is always guaranteed. I like that, even if it is a little extra I have to pay for shipping.

One thing I found interesting about the "bad guy" who ended up on the BOI for shipping an animal that arrived dead in poorly packaged conditions. He swore up and down he was changing his policy, but the ONLY change I've noticed in his policy is that the "no live arrival" part of his terms is now bold and in all capital letters. To me that is not much of a change.

Anway, thanks for the response. I have my first hatchlings that I might ship someday, and next year a lot more are projected, so I'm going to be making my own "terms" page and so forth and so on, so that I can cover my own butt whilst doing absolutely everything possible to make sure that the animals are alive and in excellent health when they reach their destination.

First off, I would say ideally all shippers should guarantee live arrival on all shipments, no exceptions. Really if you don't have enough faith in your shipping methods to be able to do this, then you have no buisness shipping animals.

Having said that, I will say this. Not being contradictory, but there is one situation where I can excuse a shipper for not offering the live arrival guarantee. That is if the shipper can offer Delta Dash shipping and the buyer insists on an overnight carrier.
In this case, the shipper is offering a very reliable service, which he can have a high confidence in. Many of the known shippers with delta do not like overnight carriers, and as long as they offer an alternative, I consider it their perogative to deny live arrival guarantee if the buyer refuses to use the method which they do guarantee.

The fact is the majority of shippers are not verified with delta and they only ship via overnight carrier. In this case it is their choice not to use delta, so they have no excuse not to offer the guarantee. To deny it when they offer no alternative demonstrates to me that they do not have a high level of confidence in their shipping methods, and I will not buy from them period.
I have been shipping reptiles for years, and to date have never lost a single snake. I would still guarantee overnight delivery if I was a known delta shipper, but since I am not, witholding the guarantee is not an option to begin with.

One factor in many of these cases is the person is a small time wannabe reptile dealer. They just buy this and that from breeders or importers and resell at a profit.
In these situations they are not one of the larger dealers with the ability to sell high numbers and thereby spreading any risk much further. Any shipment that arrives dead will put a big dent in the bottom line and their attempts at running a "buisness".
They stand to lose not only the cost of shipping, but also the cost they paid for the animal to begin with. People like this normally have much stricter purchase terms (live arrival only, 24 hours at best) to help them avoid as much loss as possible.
Breeders on the other hand, depending on how they look at it, do not have a monetary investment in their offspring. Sure they have the cost of upkeep in the parents, and their large amount of time invested in producing them, but those like myself would still keep the adults whether they bred or not, so that cost doesn't have to be considered.

What I'm saying is, a breeder has much less to lose if he has to refund a shipment. This often results in breeders offering a much better set of terms and being much more willing to make a situation right in the event of a loss.
This is why I seek out other breeders to purchase from. Anytime I'm looking for new animals, I will go to great lengths to locate someone breeding them and will only go to a reseller as a last resort. I understand that there are many respectable dealers, who have excellent customer service, but I just prefer to work with other breeders whenever possible.
Perhaps it's a matter of respect in the work the work required, because I can identify with it. Part of it is that I know often breeders are more able and willing to put far more effort into ensuring their animals are top quality.

There's good and bad on both sides. What it comes down to is that you as a buyer must decide what terms and guarantees you require, and if a seller doesn't meet those, then find another who does.