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Sariel
07-03-2011, 11:01 AM
So its becominging harder and harder to own anything other than a house cat and or a beta.
Since theres so much trouble in passing actual laws to ban our animals it seems instead that theyre simply going to make it impossible for anyone who doesnt own their home to even have a guinea pig or a hamster.

I knew that some military housing had blanket rules against exotics, but now it seems to be official that ALL military housing and, I believe, even all civilian operated military housing has banned everything but select dog breeds and house cats. They have even sent papers to shelters listing banned animals.
Now I realize that, as with apartments, it is their property and there for , their rules, but this is getting ridiculous. Any harm a hamster or ball python could do to they property a cat dog or child could do ten fold.

I would like to ask opinions on what might be a feesable course of action to start, first, generating interest in those in the military community to get this blanket rule appealed to somthing alittle more reasonable, and then how to best present it to those in charge to see if we can make some changes.
I think its absolutly unreasonable that my neighbor can stink up MY place by chain smoking, have unmanagable kids that scream all day and dink my car with their toys, but I can't have a micro chipped ball python in a locked cage?

Lucille
07-03-2011, 11:20 AM
It is my guess that one of the issues is financial. Snakes, no matter how tame, and no matter how well locked up, are characterized as wild animals which means that the owners and potentially the military base may suddenly be financially liable for enormous damage claims with very little in the way of argument that can be offered.
http://www.answers.com/topic/strict-liability

I sympathize with the OP, but this classification would be difficult to change, and if the military has had to pay such claims I do not see that persuading them would be an easy task.

Sariel
07-03-2011, 11:55 AM
Ok, but what kind of damage claims are we talking with a ball python or a hamster, seriously? Especially when compared to a dog or even a cat.. Or the neighbors kids when they destroy my property?

I do understand where you are coming from and I had no delusions this would be an easy, if even winnable, battle, but I hate to just lay down and take it. This kind of thing only gets worse with time. Eventualy all apartments, housing, home owners societies, are going to allow -no- pets because its simply too much a hassle to deal with incidents.

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 01:09 PM
The only instances I could imagine a ball python or a hamster doing major damage would be if the ball python strangled a young child or baby to death. And for the hamster, I have seen pictures of a childs finger that was bitten by a hamster, and it looked like someone had driven a nail or two into it.
I do agree that you are getting the short end of the stick, and I hope things work out for you, but right now I can see both sides of the fence, and I think the military is going to win this one :(

Sariel
07-03-2011, 01:42 PM
Its more than just the military though, most apartments and even neighborhoods with home owners associations are beginning to get this bad. It litteraly took me three days of calling -ever- apartment complex in the city we moved into to find a single place that allowed snakes.

As for a child getting bit/strangled, far as I know there has never been a report of a ball python strangleing a child, while Im certainly not going to say it isnt possible, my point of aggrivation is that the pets they ARE allowing are just as capable of doing the same damage.
I dont mind strict regulations, stiff penalties, and reasonable restrictions on some exotics <I can understand being hesitant about allowing someone to have an anaconda in an apartment>, but this just seems to be getting out of hand to me. It is becoming a wide spread norm in this country to just blanket ban everything rather than come to some compromise. It bothers me that we are heading there.

Sariel
07-03-2011, 01:45 PM
Every*... Sorry Im having the derp today, can't spell it seems.

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 01:57 PM
Yeah I understand what you mean. My apartments allow reptiles, but don't allow dogs and cats. They see it as less of a threat than a dog or a cat. Why? Probably because they are in cages and can't do any damage to the walls, floors, etc. Idk, I guess I just got lucky with where I chose. Out in my area, we don't seem to be having this problem.

Sariel
07-03-2011, 02:01 PM
Honestly, that makes more sense to me.
It still sucks for people who prefer cats or dogs, but theres much less of a chance to personal or property damage.

We may be headed out to Cali after this station, I can hope Ill have a less stressful time of finding a welcomeing place to live on the west coast maybe :D.

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Yeah you just might! Lots of reptile enthusiasts out here. Do you know where in Cali you're going?

Sariel
07-03-2011, 02:25 PM
No sure. I'll just be happy if they don't send us to japan, lol. MOre than likely it will be the San Diego area, though, given my husbands MOS.

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 02:51 PM
Oh okay. Well if for some God forsaken reason you end up at the 29 Palms base, let me know. I'm in that area.

Sariel
07-03-2011, 02:52 PM
I shall do so! Thanks for the heads up, that made me feel alittle less ragey :)

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 03:03 PM
Lol. It's not that horrible out here, its just in the middle of nowhere, hotter than help in the summer, seemingly arctic winters, and those are really the only 2 seasons out here. Lol.

On the positive side you can actually see the stars at night, there's lots of wildlife, and there's not much traffic.

rcarichter
07-03-2011, 03:45 PM
I feel for you, and I totally see your point. I suspect, like Lucille said, it's liability. There are too many 'wild' animals to list, so they just lump hamsters, tigers, and gators together. You get a BP, next guy gets an anaconda. My dogs have done quite a makeover on my house, not so with any of my exotics. My geckos have never peed on the rug.
At any rate, God Bless your family (and all others serving) for your service to our country.

Noelle

Sariel
07-03-2011, 03:53 PM
TY Noelle, the military is good to us for the most part and my husband considers it a pleasure to serve.
Honestly I have very few complaints when it comes to being in this lifestyle, that one just gets me ruffled since apartments are on the bandwagon.

I certainly understand the motivation behind it, but its aggrivating good owners have to suffer because its easier to punish us then put alittle effort into making fair and reasonable regulations.

the gecko geek
07-03-2011, 04:02 PM
I agree Alicia.it takes me back to my school days when the teacher punished the whole class because some jizzhead did something they weren't supposed to. Then they tell you its your responsibility to as their peer to talk to them and get it controlled that way.
Yeah, I'm gonna go confront the kid that brings knives and other weapons to school about not doing something stupid.

Way to go teachers!! Superb job!

PAVLOVK1025
07-05-2011, 01:59 AM
Take your BAH and use it as a mortgage payment. Problem solved. Base housing or civilian run military housing is just eating all that money up....

Cryssy
07-05-2011, 05:39 AM
I'm military, and one thing I can say is they mimick everything government initiated (makes sense, seeing as it is part of the government). Military branches do not think for themselves-they get it from a higher up who gets it from a higher up who gets it from a higher up who was mandated by the department's representatives to enforce it because someone even above them told them that's how it will be. We are a direct reflection of our society and it's conflicts. It does suck that this new rule is in effect, but for me it comes as no surprise.

Sariel
07-05-2011, 09:46 AM
Pavlovk: Unfortunatly thats not really a problem solved since we will have to move again in two years, with the houseing market as it is I really have no desire to purchase a home that I will be putting right back on the market.

Crissy: I agree with you pretty much whole heartedly, it isnt a surprise to me at all, anymore than its a surprise that such blatantly inflated "science" is taken serious in bill presented to our government instead of laughed out.

That said, none of that mentallity will be altered if its just quietly grumbled about. Im no politition, obviously, but since I do live in a country that puts effort into making it my right to be heard. I think I'd like to try and exersize that as effeciently as possible :).

Focal
07-05-2011, 09:50 AM
In Re to the hamsters and snakes, I can kind of understand that. Some species of rodents and snakes may not cause significant damage compared to a dog, but some can cause major infestations that would displace many families in order to treat. Allowing some and not all would be a bigger problem than just banning them all. Do I agree? Not really, but we know more about reptiles than they do which is not required of them. Looking out for the best interest of the property is.

Cryssy
07-05-2011, 10:18 AM
Focal X- I see your point but I disagree, there are already restrictions on specific types of animals. Like dogs for an example, some places you can't own a pitbull or terrier or it can't be over 20lbs, etc... So, I personally don't see why putting specific restrictions on snakes/hamsters/whatever-like say, no burms, or venomous snakes, etc... would be such a hassle if they already make exceptions.

anaconda420
07-05-2011, 10:31 PM
so its ok to give your life for your country but you cant own a reptile? what kind of crap is that...

Ntyvirus
07-05-2011, 10:47 PM
Im in the same boat finding a place( granted I'm not military but still looking for housing nonetheless. I have called multiple "pet friendly" apartments and as soon as i say snake most people crap their pants.

PAVLOVK1025
07-06-2011, 01:40 AM
Pavlovk: Unfortunatly thats not really a problem solved since we will have to move again in two years, with the houseing market as it is I really have no desire to purchase a home that I will be putting right back on the market.


That's silly. You're right, the housing market sucks...but that means you can get a good property for less money. As soon as you're ready to move, your house becomes your rental property, and rentals never go out of style especially when within the range of a military base. Pick another house up at your next duty station, move, rent it out, etc. Doing it like that will allow you to leave the military with several rental properties.:thumbsup:

Focal
07-06-2011, 07:19 AM
so its ok to give your life for your country but you cant own a reptile? what kind of crap is that...

Sorry but that is no better than someone pulling a race/sex card. It's always a fill in the blank. "You can give your life for your country but you can't (input whatever applies)." When you sign up, you know you are at their mercy and you pledge your allegiance to the service. Expecting otherwise falls on you. No offense to the OP or the military. I've served and there is no other dishonorable thing than trying to pull the military card. You are here to give, not to receive. Any other benefits are a privilage.

Pmsayi
07-06-2011, 08:43 AM
Sorry but that is no better than someone pulling a race/sex card. It's always a fill in the blank. "You can give your life for your country but you can't (input whatever applies)." When you sign up, you know you are at their mercy and you pledge your allegiance to the service. Expecting otherwise falls on you. No offense to the OP or the military. I've served and there is no other dishonorable thing than trying to pull the military card. You are here to give, not to receive. Any other benefits are a privilage.

First, thank you and the other military service personnel and their families for your service and sacrifice. Second, sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Those who serve sacrifice many things and their families sacrifice just as much. While I fully understand and agree with not allowing pets in barracks, housing is another matter entirely. The families of military personnel already make huge sacrifices, restricting their right to own a pet of their choosing that may bring them some happiness while a loved one is off serving in some God forsaking place is bullsh*t. That's right up there with congress having the best health care possible while returning injured vets sometimes wait months to get the care they need.

I find it ironic that those who are charged with protecting our freedoms are still sh*t on by our government and their rights restricted. To the OP: I will be writing my representative to complain about this.

Sariel
07-06-2011, 09:28 AM
That's silly. You're right, the housing market sucks...but that means you can get a good property for less money. As soon as you're ready to move, your house becomes your rental property, and rentals never go out of style especially when within the range of a military base. Pick another house up at your next duty station, move, rent it out, etc. Doing it like that will allow you to leave the military with several rental properties.:thumbsup:

And while that is a great option for some people, its a gamble Im not really in the position to take up myself. You need to be able to the time inbetween tenants, and any possible repairs. Not things I have the extra money to do. Theres also the issue of not being able to be sure my property is being fairly well maintained by the current renters, travel costs to do inspections when people are going to move out. Theres alot more involved than just "renting it when you leave"

HecticLifeReptiles
07-10-2011, 04:20 PM
My husband is military, and the reason for the exotics ban ON base housing is for the reason that they can't just ban burmese or rock pythons, they MUST ban ALL snakes, many reasons for the bans of exotic is because 1) soldiers do go to the field and arnt always responsible for watching or hiring a sitter, 2) Soldiers do deploy quite often, and sudden most times, this leads to soldiers releasing their snakes onto the base, which is dangerous, as well as harmful to the enviroment,not to mention, many people are PETRIFIED of snakes. I perosnally think it is a good thing that they have done this,because it means those of us in the snake trade wont get dinged for dumbies letting lose the animals they cant find homes for.

Sariel
07-10-2011, 04:52 PM
My husband is military, and the reason for the exotics ban ON base housing is for the reason that they can't just ban burmese or rock pythons, they MUST ban ALL snakes, many reasons for the bans of exotic is because 1) soldiers do go to the field and arnt always responsible for watching or hiring a sitter, 2) Soldiers do deploy quite often, and sudden most times, this leads to soldiers releasing their snakes onto the base, which is dangerous, as well as harmful to the enviroment,not to mention, many people are PETRIFIED of snakes. I perosnally think it is a good thing that they have done this,because it means those of us in the snake trade wont get dinged for dumbies letting lose the animals they cant find homes for.

I have to disagree on a couple points here.

A: It is just as easy to ban the larger animals and allow smaller snakes rather than just blanket ban.

B: Those same people who are deployed and irresponcible about sitters will be the same with their cats and dogs. Whether or not its an exotic shouldnt make a difference, Its easier to release a snake to a pet store than to release a dog the same way, and a dog/cat is going to be MUCH more detrimental to the environment if just let loose. Most exotic reptiles can't live more than a season in the majority of North America.

c: I dont think someone else being petrified of snakes should eliminate my ability to responsably own one. As I stated earlier I have to deal with their irritating quirks, its part of living in close communal housing.

HecticLifeReptiles
07-10-2011, 05:27 PM
well I see your point, but I also get where the army is coming from. Ft hood found a 11ft rattler in someones on-post housing...we all own our snakes as responsibly as we can, but escapes do happen from time to time and that can be dangerous. I personally own 2 rescued BCI's, one was a soldier that deployed n dumped the snake on his mom, who had no idea what she was doing, the other was a soldier who decided to buy a baby BCI for his 4 year old son and my husband and I were told the snake was "very dangerous and not handleable, that it had bit the 4 year old, upon arriving to pick up the snake the 4 yr old was running around the house with it in front of the parents...they wondered why the snake bit the kid. I'm not saying military members should NEVER own snakes, but I think it better they live off post to do so and adhere to state and local laws, just like the rest of us do. the fact is many soldiers were keeping snakes that are banned in the state, that require permits that the soldiers did not have or were owning snakes that are very dangerous to the community. if a soldier wants to own a snake and upkeep it, I think it best the soldier does so off post and in the proper manner. base housing includes Barracks, where people were keeping snakes in closets, lockboxes and the such, without proper heating and proper care. these are the reasons my husband and I live off post and we get calls from the on base shelter every now and then about snakes they found in a barrack inspection that needs a new home. it's sad that soldiers can't simply follow the rules set upon them. even the dog bans don't work as effectively as you might think. pope still own pits n rotts on post, they just call them something else, like a lab or some crap. where I live off post I paid $280 to own my snakes and I was thinking of Doug a fish tank, but per my rental agreement I would have to pay another $280...that's for a tank of fish!!!

Sariel
07-10-2011, 05:56 PM
well I see your point, but I also get where the army is coming from. Ft hood found a 11ft rattler in someones on-post housing...we all own our snakes as responsibly as we can, but escapes do happen from time to time and that can be dangerous. I personally own 2 rescued BCI's, one was a soldier that deployed n dumped the snake on his mom, who had no idea what she was doing, the other was a soldier who decided to buy a baby BCI for his 4 year old son and my husband and I were told the snake was "very dangerous and not handleable, that it had bit the 4 year old, upon arriving to pick up the snake the 4 yr old was running around the house with it in front of the parents...they wondered why the snake bit the kid. I'm not saying military members should NEVER own snakes, but I think it better they live off post to do so and adhere to state and local laws, just like the rest of us do. the fact is many soldiers were keeping snakes that are banned in the state, that require permits that the soldiers did not have or were owning snakes that are very dangerous to the community. if a soldier wants to own a snake and upkeep it, I think it best the soldier does so off post and in the proper manner. base housing includes Barracks, where people were keeping snakes in closets, lockboxes and the such, without proper heating and proper care. these are the reasons my husband and I live off post and we get calls from the on base shelter every now and then about snakes they found in a barrack inspection that needs a new home. it's sad that soldiers can't simply follow the rules set upon them. even the dog bans don't work as effectively as you might think. pope still own pits n rotts on post, they just call them something else, like a lab or some crap. where I live off post I paid $280 to own my snakes and I was thinking of Doug a fish tank, but per my rental agreement I would have to pay another $280...that's for a tank of fish!!!


We might have to agree to disagree on this.
People who are just naturally irresponcable are going to be so with everything in their life. Its not ok, in my mind, to treat every one else like children and take the toys away from -everyone- because a few people cannot follow the rules.
As I state in earlier posts, I understand some restrictions, I understand why larger snakes should be restricted from close communities like apartments or military houseing, especialy hots. However, banning colubrids, ball pythons, guinea pigs?
I've been living on military housing since I was born, Ive never once encountered someones loose or abondond exotic. I have been bit by cats, had someones dogs kill my cat <in my own yard>, had my car and property vadalized, been stolen from, and pretty much anything you can relate to living that closely with other people on or off base. Its part of having neighbors.
Because the occasional burm is abondoned or someone else is illegaly owning an animal <which they will do reguardless of if they are banned from base, if theyre willing to do it when its banned from the state> should NOT mean that someone else can't have a guinea pig or a ball python. Its not that hard to put a few limitations rather than just overall blanket ban -everything-.

./endlongwindedrant

HecticLifeReptiles
07-11-2011, 07:30 AM
yeah I totally agree. I'm a fan of pits n mastiffs too and hate the breed banning. it's really no different, but I do get it. as stupid as it is. Fact is it's really not stopping many, trust me there! There are plenty of soldiers
from my hubby's E5 right on up to one of his Warrants, own snakes, when they blanket banned, they just simply moved off post. Personally, I lobe the freedom off post to own what I please and not have the army keeping tabs on it....that'd be similar to the FDA having control over our snakes, no thanks!!! lol. Best advice I can give to any soldiers owning snakes is 1) move off post or 2) find a friend that isn't afraid of snakes and see if you can house your snakes there. As for Guinea pigs, those are still allowed here at Ft. Hood, last I checked...when did rodents fall into blanket ban at your base?

Focal
07-11-2011, 07:51 AM
http://www.fox43tv.com/dpps/military/Boa-found-in-Langley-military-housing_3764310


HAHAHA!! Watch the video about the escaped "boa constrictor." What idiots!

Sariel
07-11-2011, 08:52 AM
yeah I totally agree. I'm a fan of pits n mastiffs too and hate the breed banning. it's really no different, but I do get it. as stupid as it is. Fact is it's really not stopping many, trust me there! There are plenty of soldiers
from my hubby's E5 right on up to one of his Warrants, own snakes, when they blanket banned, they just simply moved off post. Personally, I lobe the freedom off post to own what I please and not have the army keeping tabs on it....that'd be similar to the FDA having control over our snakes, no thanks!!! lol. Best advice I can give to any soldiers owning snakes is 1) move off post or 2) find a friend that isn't afraid of snakes and see if you can house your snakes there. As for Guinea pigs, those are still allowed here at Ft. Hood, last I checked...when did rodents fall into blanket ban at your base?

Im not sure how old the ban is, You might want to re-check your rule actualy, cause from my understanding theyre changing these rules to most if not all bases.
The wording at the one near me <I actualy live off base, its just irritating>;
Exotic pets, snakes, spiders, mice (hamsters, gerbils, etc.) turtles, rabbits and fish tanks over fine (5) gallons are not permitted. If you have questions, please call the Management Office for clarification.

I've heard from friends scattered about the country that theyre housing rules reguarding pets are being changed to be pretty simular as well.

HecticLifeReptiles
07-12-2011, 09:26 AM
huh, crazy...maybe they'll start banning dogs and cats too as well as birds as they are all nuisances on post too. the barking, cat poop in your yard dog poo on the sidewalk...never ceases to amaze me that the army works harder n definantly not smarter!

BR289
07-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Wow! Is that a new strain of Boa that morphs into a Royal ( Ball ) python? Cool!