What's important to you in a reptile show?

There's been a lot of talk recently regarding what people like and dislike about reptile shows. I'm kind of curious about what other people would like to see in a reptile show. Rather than do a poll, I'll just ask some specific questions...you can either answer them or just share your thoughts, or both.
Be honest...

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
a.) CB only
b.) CB and established, healthy WC
c.) CB and WC's (fresh imports or established)

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
b.) The vendor's reputation in the industry
c.) The vendor's prices
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
a.) $5
b.) $10
c.) $15
d.) $20

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
b.) internet
c.) pet stores

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
a.) more than 2 per year
b.) more than 4 a year
c.) more than 6 a year
d.) I never get tired of going to herp shows

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?

my answers

1. I prefer CB only (but I can tolerate healthy, established WC's)
2. quality of the animals
3. NO
4. I'll attend talks or demonstrations if the subject matter interests me.
5. I'd prefer not to see these kinds of activities at herp shows.
6. $20 if it was done right
7. smaller show w/ more reputable vendors
8. If their prices seem higher then fair market value
9. reptile shows (but the internet is a close second)
10. more than 2 a year
11. No, I'm spending as much as I ever have.

1. Healthy animals (I've seen good and bad of both CB and WC).
2. I think A and D go hand in hand. A vendor with healthy animals is more likely to talk about them and I'm more likely to listen due to his/her quality.
3. I'm biased towards reptiles Not that I think others would be bad, just not interested.
4. The right subject matter I would sit and listen. Mostly just there to buy
5. c.
6. $10
7. A larger number of vendors. More chance to "stumble" upon a rare species or great deal.
8. C
9. B
10. D As witnessed by Randy at Outback Reptiles. I missed one local show as a vendor this year. Walked in on Sunday, and was greeted by a "Are you sick or what?"
11. I am more selective now. Has nothing to do with economy, though a few extra sales would help me get some higher end stuff for Xmas

heres my .04 worth

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
a.) CB only
b.) CB and established, healthy WC
c.) CB and WC's (fresh imports or established)
B - if there healthy WC that gives a chance for something new

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
b.) The vendor's reputation in the industry
c.) The vendor's prices
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general
A & D- however B&C if i like A&B lol but at a show i do tend to goto the more well known vendors first to see what they have

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?
this depends on my reason going If my son is with me i say it is fun for him as he does like to see the exotic furries but im with Dan they really do nothing for me

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?
im usally there to buy and see friends , if there happens to be something that just i cant live w/o sittin in on ill go

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.
B with out a doubt thats what they make the circus for lol

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
a.) $5
b.) $10
c.) $15
d.) $20
C

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?
larger show more to get lucky with

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never
A,B&C lol can ya blame me

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
b.) internet
c.) pet stores
A- when possible & B when i have to have something that may not be at the show i goto

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never
D- if not im sick or dead

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?yes but only due to uhm, that econmy thing ... im self employed

1. C I want variety. Balls and leopard geckos don't do much for me anymore.

2. A coupled w/ my desire/need for that animal

3. I have no problem with that. Other than once I saw the giant python picture booth set-up right next to a mammal booth. That made me cringe A LOT!!!!

4. Not usually, I am usually too busy.

5. Doesn't do anything for me, but the kids love it! And if you have kids, you know how important that is.

6. $20 for a weekend, or a really BIG show.

7. Large number of vendors, I rarely buy based on name.

8. Somewhere between A and B, I won't ask if the price is low enough to suit me, but if it's more than what I've seen elsewhere, I will ask. I usually just make an offer.

9. D. private, face to face sales. At someone's home, at a wholesalers, herp clubs, etc.

10. D* I never get tried of going to GOOD herp shows.

11. Yes, I am spending less. I have to, my herp money comes mostly from my herp sales, and as those are down, so are my purchases. The market has changed dramatically over the past 3 years (the BUSH years), and as such so have my "business" practices.

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
a.) CB only
b.) CB and established, healthy WC
c.) CB and WC's (fresh imports or established)

B. Established WC specimens are useful in many situations, although much that is available at shows is completely unnecessary, and little more than a money maker for dealers. I do not however think freshly caught animals have any place in the hands of novices.

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
b.) The vendor's reputation in the industry
c.) The vendor's prices
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.

A. The other choices are nice bonuses, but I care most about the quality of the animals. It doesn't matter to me who they are.

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?

No. I don't mind it to a point, but I'd just as soon not have birds and mammals there.

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?

I'm there to see friends and possibly buy. I have never attended any talk at any show. Roarks talk at Bristol was nice though, alot of the lookers went to it and made it much easier to talk to vendors and such for about an hour.

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.

B. None of this nonsense has any place at a herp show. These type things are in a large way responsible for the degredation of the shows in general. People with no real interest beyond curiosity see it as a $7 ticket to a zoo and circus all in one. Bringing in these people benefits nobody other than the show promoter. It's annoying to those with a genuine interest and possibility of buying because it clogs up the place with sightseers and baby strollers, and it's basically a detriment to the vendors by making it difficult for real customers to get to their table while their busy answering questions like "is it poisonous?" and "can my 4 year old touch it?"

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
a.) $5
b.) $10
c.) $15
d.) $20

Ideally B, but if it's a good show I'd pay more. There are currently no shows that I would consider worth $20. I have not attended Daytona however.

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?

This is a double edged sword for me. A larger show provides more variety, but it usually only means more big dealers will attend or buy more tables. I have little use for them, and almost never buy from them so that doesn't benefit me beyond having a few more tables to look at as I pass by.
For me, I'd rather have a smaller show comprised of only breeders. Not just big names though, I like to see the small timers too, these guys often have awesome animals produced from a small collection that recieves high levels of care and attention. They are also some of my favorites to just talk to.

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never

C. Quantity discounts are reasonable, and pretty much the norm. Otherwise, if their prices are higher than I want to pay, I just pass on by. I don't do much haggling, if you price your animals high expecting me to counter offer and buy them, you'll most likely lose that sale.
Additionally in some cases I feel it is an insult to a dedicated breeder, who has made the effort to locate the best stock and devoted 3-4 years to raising them, to offer him half of what he's asking. If you want top quality be prepared to pay for it, if you want cheap go to the mass dealer. You get what you pay for most times.

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
b.) internet
c.) pet stores

Anymore it's B. I used to do quite a bit of show purchases, but the last few years I just haven't had the interest in hundreds of leopard geckos, imported balls, and cornsnakes.

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
a.) more than 2 per year
b.) more than 4 a year
c.) more than 6 a year
d.) I never get tired of going to herp shows

B. I say that assuming it's a larger area, and not just a single city. One city really needs no more than 2 shows, but you could say 4 shows within a 500 mile diameter. Any more than that really gets redundant, there's just not enough to support endless shows.

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?

I spend more now than I used to. This year I spent more than probably the last 3-4 combined. None of those purchases were at shows though. I've grown tired of dealing with the show atmosphere lately, and just go to catch up with friends and buy occasional dry goods.

There's been a lot of talk recently regarding what people like and dislike about reptile shows. I'm kind of curious about what other people would like to see in a reptile show. Rather than do a poll, I'll just ask some specific questions...you can either answer them or just share your thoughts, or both.
Be honest...

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
a.) CB only
b.) CB and established, healthy WC
c.) CB and WC's (fresh imports or established)
B works fine for me as long as the vendor represents the animal accurately

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
b.) The vendor's reputation in the industry
c.) The vendor's prices
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.
in order of importance, A, C, D, B

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?
it doesn't bother me

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?
occasionally if the speaker interests me

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.
C

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
a.) $5
b.) $10
c.) $15
d.) $20
C

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?
large number of vendors. competition for what little money I have to spend is good for me

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never
B

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
b.) internet
c.) pet stores
A, I prefer to see in person what I'm buying when its an animal. I would buy something online if it was a good deal, and I couldn't get it in person

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
a.) more than 2 per year
b.) more than 4 a year
c.) more than 6 a year
d.) I never get tired of going to herp shows
B

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?
I spent more this year than I have in the past

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
a.) CB only
b.) CB and established, healthy WC
c.) CB and WC's (fresh imports or established)

In my opinion point b is a little utopic. Once you "open the door" for WC it is very difficult to tell if they are LTC or good looking fresh imports (I've seen fresh imports that look great only to go downhill from there). Having said this I still like to see WC animals. It's probably the thrill of discovering something unusual.

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
b.) The vendor's reputation in the industry
c.) The vendor's prices
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.

A combination of all of the above

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?

I don't mind unless it turns out to be the majority and not the exception

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?

It will depend on the speaker and topic. If I'm at a show I'd rather spend my time visiting vendors

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.

I'm not much in favor

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
a.) $5
b.) $10
c.) $15
d.) $20

$20

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?

Large number is important to me. If number is at the expense of quality I would rather stay small

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
b.) If their prices seem higher then fair market value
c.) Only if I'm buying in quantity
d.) Never

b

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
b.) internet
c.) pet stores

b

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
a.) more than 2 per year
b.) more than 4 a year
c.) more than 6 a year
d.) I never get tired of going to herp shows

a

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?

No, but I do recognize that there is a slow down in the trade. Other priorities are probably taken care first

1) B C.B. and Established imports.
2)A&D Quality and Support!
3)No other animals at the show. There are many other shows that they can attend.
4)Yes we attend the talks when possible or we are not doing one! LOL!
5)B Don't think it's in the best of interests.
6)15.00
7)Large number. You can weed out the good and the bad. At least most of us can.
8)A. Everytime. Dosen't hurt to ask. I know i'm not offended when asked.
9)None of the above!
10)B more than 4
11)No more.

Just my thoughts. Thanks Ray G. HBR

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
b.) CB and established, healthy WC

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?
No.

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?
I attend some of the educational talks.

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
c.) $15 for the weekend, although I would pay more to get into Daytona probably

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?
Smaller show with reputable vendors

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
d.) Never

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
b.) internet

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
d.) I never get tired of going to herp shows

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?
No, I spend more than I ever have.

1. I prefer to buy captive bred, but have nothing against healthy wc animals so long as they are represented honestly.

2. Quality & vendor knowledge are more important to me that reputation for the most part. Obviously known bad guys aren't going to get my $$$. Fair prices are important but I'm not above taking advantage of a good deal either.

3. I go to reptile shows to see reptiles, amphibians and possibly some insects. Exotic mammals and birds are nice, but I don't want to see them at a herp show...especially when their scent is permeating a room full of predators.

4. I've occassionally listened to some of the lectures if they interest me but mostly I go for the animals and to meet up with other like-minded folks.

5. I don't think "activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers" should be offered at a herp expo. Leave that stuff for the local fair.

6. $10-$15 for a fairly large, and quality, herp expo...up to $20 for a two-day event.

7. I like the large shows for the variety but also enjoy going to some of the smaller shows because you have more opportunity to get to know the vendors first hand.

8. I don't typically ask for a vendor to go down on a price so long as the price is fair for the animal(s) in question. I've been pretty lucky with most of my purchases and have gotten fair deals at the least and a couple of times gotten really good deals for the animal in question.

9. The majority of my collection was either purchased at a show or from individuals though I have one snake I purchased online and my first came from a pet store some 12 years ago.

10. There is no such thing as too many herp shows in my book. There are 4-6 regular shows in my area that I go to every year plus MARS in Timonium, MD that I attend. Anything else I hear about within a reasonable driving distance I also attend. I don't always buy animals but will often pick up some supplies or just visit with vendors & friends that show up. If nothing else, it's just something I enjoy doing.

11. I am definitely spending less this year than I have in the past. The economy hasn't been great for my insureds and thus, as their insurance agent, not that great for me either. As my own cash flow picks up, so will my spending.

I probably agree with everyone, but I like quizzes so here's my 2 cents!

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
b.) CB and established, healthy WC, this may help provide more variety. I get sick of seeing table after table of Leos and corn snakes. Also I do enjoy going to shows which allow venemous animals. I wouldn't purchase one, but I do have friends who would.

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.
I'm gonna have to go with both of these. And generally they go hand in hand. If a vendor cares about his/her animals then she will be willing to share the knowledge so that the buyer doesn't take it home and kill it.

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?
Yes, I think it helps attract others to the trade. Plus there are some neat things to see. I'm not turned off to the idea of buying a sugar glider or something similar. However, if these non-herps are going to be more frequent than a couple gerbils here, a cerval there, then the show shouldn't be marketed as a reptile show.

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?
If it's interesting yes.

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
Alot of people bring their children to these shows so it's nice to keep the children involved. However, if it's a reptile show then the activities should be reptile related. The earlier that children are exposed to reptiles the less the fear they will have in the future. Plus if the moneys raised from these special activities benifits a charity it makes it all the better. (charity does not include keeping the camel fed)

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
b.) $10
I'd like to have $ left to spend at the show.

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?
Variety is most important to me. Which ever option gets the most variety of quality animals the better.

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
But Imake my hubby do it, I'm to shy.

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
Ha ha ha, pet stores that's funny. I wouldn't purchase an animal around here from any of the lps's.

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
b.) more than 4 a year
I need time to save money to spend at the shows. That and make space for the new arrivals.

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?
Nope. Where there is a will there is a way (and a spare heating pad)

Clay Davenport said:

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.

B. None of this nonsense has any place at a herp show. These type things are in a large way responsible for the degredation of the shows in general. People with no real interest beyond curiosity see it as a $7 ticket to a zoo and circus all in one. Bringing in these people benefits nobody other than the show promoter. It's annoying to those with a genuine interest and possibility of buying because it clogs up the place with sightseers and baby strollers, and it's basically a detriment to the vendors by making it difficult for real customers to get to their table while their busy answering questions like "is it poisonous?" and "can my 4 year old touch it?"

Click to expand...

I recently made a post expressing a similar sentiment on kingsnake, and was basically flame-broiled for what I said.

forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=10

Isis Madec
Isis Reptiles

LOL. You do realize that a large percentage of KS's demographic is pre-teen to young teen. You basically told 70% of the readers of the post they weren't wanted. Valid argument or not, probably not the crowd that wanted to listen to it.

Back on subject, the reality is that promoters and a number of vendors (us included) reap the rewards of the "family" market. Even though this is a niche market, volume is the name of the game. And this is shown in the common shows.

If my game plan was to only sell/breed the high end animals I'd probably sharpen my internet business skills and never pack up for a show. Too much work when you can reach a larger group of people looking for high end stuff without getting up from your desk.

Isis Reptiles said:

I recently made a post expressing a similar sentiment on kingsnake, and was basically flame-broiled for what I said.

Click to expand...

At the unavoidable risk of stepping on many toes, the kingsnake forums have degenerated into little more than an amatuer picture post. There are few long time herpers left there who have a real knowledge of what we do.
I abandoned the forums myself a few years ago. It just became pointless for me to go look at someone's new ball python they just brought home from Petco.
Any comments such as the ones you made are completely against the grain of the vast majority of people who frequent that internet playground.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. The biggest problem is what we consider to be serious herpers are an endangered species. People who have a deep interest in the animals themselves as opposed to a superficial "hey they're cool" attitude are getting more rare by the year.

I still attend a few shows, but almost never buy anything other than dry goods. The shows have become dominated by the big volume low end dealers who cater to that type of market. This is an unavoidable situation which eliminates the small breeder who values the animals and experience gained from working with them far above money.
It's a self perpetuating cycle. The big dealers are drawn by and at the same time draw the neophyte crowd. The end result is the serious herper is left without a reason to either attend or vend at most shows. Unfortunately our numbers are such that it doesn't really matter.

One day, I'd love to organize, or help to organize a herp show directed at us. No flashy preprinted banners, no big dealers, just an old fashioned show populated by dedicated breeders.
The profit potential of such a show is small however, so it would take that type of herper to organize it in the first place.
I guess at times I miss the days before Reptiles magazine, and all the money driven dealers who survive on moving huge numbers of entry level herps.

My greatest consolation is every year I do meet new keepers in who I can see the fire. They email me after browsing my website just to let me know they feel the same way, or we exchange emails off and on after they have bought something from me.
When I start getting tired of all the commercial crap we are bombarded with, and once again seriously consider just fading out and doing my thing in complete privacy, one of these people emails and renews my faith that there remain folks entering and participating in the hobby who still view reptiles as more than a simple commodity.

Wow

Clay, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Just FYI, I think there is a show in North Hollywood, CA that is just a show (no sales). I've never been to it but it would seem this would draw less of the general public.