?What Makes A German Giant Beardie?

Do tell my good people of Fauna..

What makes a German Giant A "german giant"? now obviously, if they speak german, but many do not have the ability to speak...


But in truth.., how big do they have to be to be a Giant? i adopted one, and shes HUGE...and very light, post on here if u know the real answer <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Good Question...
I guess the answer would depend on who you ask. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  

They say males can get 2 feet+ total length, the females couldn't be that far behind. Maybe it should go by the gram weight of the dragon, (500+, 600+ grams?)

But... (just for fun here...)
What if you get a pair of GG's (from a reputable source) that fit the above description, and they breed - and the female lays only 20 eggs first clutch, (instead of 40 or 50+ like the books say.) Well - you could say; you know, it's her first time... she's having an off year, it happens, whatever... Okay, so what if you hold back the hatchlings and a bunch of them only grow out to be 16" -18" total...  Are those German Giants? They came from GG's?
Fun with dragons! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
lol!
Take it easy,
Liz

Liz,

good point,  you can take it a step further, and apply it to any morph of animal.  what exactly is a sandfire dragon, what exactly is a snow dragon.  Are these morphs as researched and proven as say an amel corn or a anery corn, or a snow corn?  Does anyone know if crossing a german giant with a sandfire will in fact produce anything other than a normal looking bearded dragon?  If not, what justification can you give to the higher prices many people ask for this sort of thing.  As far as my personal opinion goes,  all babies are considered normal.  I might be willing to pay more for juveniles or adults showing specific traits but only on their own merit,  not because of anything potentially genetic.  Its not like you are buying an albino ball python where the genetics are known.  The same holds true for all the leopeard gecko morphs out there.  My advice to people is buy them if you like what they look like but don't come complaining to me if the adults turn out to be nothing special.

Steve Schindler
Tropical Oasis

Hi Steve,
True, people can make up whatever names they want for color phases... blood, hypo-pastel, kotton kandy korn,
(sorry, couldn't resist! )  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>   Since there are no real 'standards' set in stone in this aspect of the industry, just about anything is fair game - caveat emptor...
   Sandfire is registered, but these days that only really means you got it from SDR, (providing you got it there in the first place...)  the ultimate coloration of the adult animal varies, (no secret there...)
At the same time, you can't really compare color traits of dragons or leos with corns or other snakes, it'd be like apples and oranges, really - they're inherited much differently. While amels or anerys or whatever in snakes can easily be proven and seen right away, (nearly...)
With dragons (and leopard geckos,) it takes several generations of breeding VERY high color-quality animals to ensure entire clutches of full body color hatchlings that keep it into adulthood, looking as good, or better than the parents.

For the casual herper, I agree with your advice, but would like to add that if you're interested in color morphs of any type of herp, the best thing you can do is know your breeder.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Dragons Den has a female German Giant called the Terminator,she broke the record of laying 68 eggs in 1 clutch!thats alot of eggs! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

I agree with the "know your breeder" philosophy when trying to get specific selective morph animals.  
But, if you are out for a specific trait in animals like bearded dragons or leopard geckos, which can start out looking like one thing and turn out totally different once they grow up, I would reccomend purchasing sub-adult or adult animals.  You may pay more for your animals this way.  However, you won't end up with that possible "nasty" surprise of a totally normal looking gecko or dragon from that screamer baby.

OH yeah, to answer the original question of what makes German Giants what they are...

The line originated from captive bloodlines in Germany and was imported into the US by Pete and Phyllis Weiss several years ago.  Now we know what makes them "German."

As far as the "Giant" goes, Liz has already stated that dragons from this line can reach lengths of over 2 feet and are quite a bit heftier than the average beardie.  Personally, the largest GG I know of is 28 inches and was a female.

I also agree with the "know your breeder" advice.  There are a few animals that I would only consider buying from a select few breeders, especially as babies.  Juveniles or adults are a bit of a different matter as they may be showing their colors already..  

Can any dragon breeders out there tell me if there are any morphs that can be compared to say an amel corn snake.

Are there any simply recessive genes identified in dragons such as albinism that would alow you to say "if I breed this to this I'll get this"

Steve Schindler
Tropical Oasis

Well, maybe....
I'm working on a project with this fellow, pictured here with his sibs... (pie bald? we're not quite sure yet...) He just hatched out last year, and this is his first season breeding, (pic is from last November or December, but he still looks the same.) He hatched out normal, and the white first appeared  about 3-4 months of age after a shed. First on his tail, then spreading out over the course of a few months and sheds. The spots lighten and darken, while the rest of him stays the same. (kind of hard to see his spots in the pic.) He's quite healthy and vigorous, suprisingly enough, and still the biggest of his clutch. I've only seen one other like him - and have no idea who has it, or their expierence with it. It'll probably be awhile yet before we know whether it's a gene or a fluke.

On another note, in my expierence, Hypo-Pastels breed true, but I'm not willing to put that on paper as a simple recessive.  I've heard the 'clear nailed' dragons breed true, as well as 'leucistics' but haven't had any real expierence with either.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
Liz

Thanks for the picture Liz.  I hope the trait does breed true for you.

However, your last post brings up the same (or at least similar) point made in the first post.  What make an animal hypo-pastel.  Personaly (and this is strictly my own opinion and in no way a knock on you or anyone else who breeds morphs) many of those animals being offered as something special are nothing more that slightly different looking normals, and not worth the asking price.  I don't have a problem with people asking outrageous (IMHO) prices for what I consider to be normals as I simply wont buy them, but I get people asking me all the time "I paid X dollars for this was it worth it?"  My response is always "do YOU think it was worth it?" because 75% of the time, I do not think it was worth it, but I am not going to burst their bubble.  Every dragon, every ball python, every boa, that I sell is sold as a normal unless it is a provable trait (such as an albino)  Yes, the ones with more color or a slightly different patern usually sell first, but I won't charge extra for something that I wouldn't (or didn't) pay extra for.

There are some very colorful morphs out there without a doubt, but I find very few of them as attractive as a good example of  a "normal"  This probably hurts my business to some degree because I usually won't buy what I don't like and I may be missing out on something.  On the other hand I wont have customers complaining to me that the dragon I charged them twice as much for last year looks just like the one their neighbor bought at the same time for half that much.

I guess thats another reason I will never get rich at this.  I don't like all these new high end morphs so I won't get into them.  I do have an albino and a het nelsons milk but they came in as part of a package, and if I had the money I might get an albino ball python.  they are about the only albinos I do like.

Steve Schindler
Tropical Oasis

Just because they are super adorable <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> My breeders <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>