pic of high yellow belly ball....ready for you female pastels

Herees a pic of the adult male high yellow belly ball python i have for sale. Eats great, looks awsome, and has a slight reduced pattern.
Steve

heres another.

Hey man I have photoshop too

Kristin Countryman

What are you talking about?

I did not do anything to this picture, I dont even have photo shop. I wouldn't sink that low, If you dont believe me come see for yourself.


Steve Bates

Here is an updated pic

That picture was with a web cam. The lighting was weird but I did not do anything to it. Here is an updated pic.....

That animal is NOT a Yellow Belly. The Yellow Belly is a proven Co-Dominant Genetic mutation. The animal you have is nothing more than a nice looking normal. Yes it has a yellow coloration on its sides and belly but it is NOT the Genetic Yellow Belly Ball Python.

And you know this how?

and you know this how??? Just because I have something that you may not have, does not mean that it is not genetic. I have been told it seemed to be, by quite a few. It could be genetic, but I am not promising anything, I never said it was genetic anyway. I have seen nice males before, and this is a big difference.
Steve

Regaurdless of genetics the color of the snake in the first two pictures does not match the third. Anyone with eyes can see this. Sorry not trying to be rude. Simply stating the obvious.

Krisitn Countryman

If you would have read what I said..

I stated that the other were of the same snake under different lighting. Read it and you will see,
Steve Bates

Rob, prior to this breeding season, there have been dozens if not hundreds of snakes sold as yellow bellies and prior to this season only 2 or 3 have been bred and they were not bred by you. How then do you know all about what is and what is not a true genetic yellow belly? Several large breeders have purchased many different looking wild caught animals this past year speculating on the chance that they may be the genetic yellow belly trait. Do you know more about ball pythons then Mark and Kim Bell, BHB Enterprises and so many others that are testing the waters on this gene? Also, why do you think that because the Sutherlands post what they did that it is the whole story? You should just let this guy sell this animal and let the buyer beware as they always should. The animal may not be a yellow belly but it is not an average "normal" ball either. If he does not want a million bucks for it, life goes on.

nicely said

nicely said.. eather way its a nice looking ball..

Bravo

Your are quite the debater, some would call you the masterdebator.

Good points. This snake is pretty neat, no matter how you look at it. I dont want a fortune for it. I was only asking around $400. I can probably be haggled with, But I will see about it when that time comes.

Steve Bates

My Humble opinion.

I have seen some of the imports labelled "yellow belly".
Steve, what do you know of this snakes lineage? Also, the 3rd picture isnt an updated pictue. Also, in the 1st picture, if you look near the top, I see white sides. Which leads me to think you did some light tricks or color editting. Like I said, just my humble opinion. If you look around the Ball Python forum, I'd say evidence stacks up against Steve's case, as he claims many people say it looks like a yellow belly, yet I see more people disagreeing rather than agreeing.
That's my 2 cents
Mike Fortier
Sand and Sun Reptiles

Mike, what do you think that anyone knows of the lineage of any yellow belly ball python as every single one has been a wild caugt sub adult to adult? If you are jumping all over this for $400 or less did you nail Ben Seigal when he had "yellow belly ball pythons wild caught adults" at $1500-2200each? And the 3 other people on kingsnake that had them for $1000-2000 each, none of them knowing if it was a genetic animal or not and clearly stating that? If not then this is really very hypocritical. I do not even know the guy who posted this but i think it sucks the way you guys are going after him while others post the same thing at 4-10 times the price and nobody says a word.

No I dont know it's lineage. I received it from someone I did a trade with. "Updated" doesn't exactly mean that it was taken right then. It is the newest picture I have and don't have the time to run around and take more. That white was from a shine off of the scales from the light above. Web cams arent the greatest, as you can see. And I DID NOT edit this in any way. What would I say if someone bought it and came to pick it up? What would I tell them,"Oh it is shedding." or sumthing like that? No I would definetly not do that. I sink down to that level. The people that know me would agree. Those pictures are not precise, but they give you an idea. The third is a little lighter, but pretty close.
Thanks for you "Two cents" If anyone has any other question dont hesititate to ask.

Steve Bates

My 2 cents.....

I've conversed with Steve on a regular basis over the last few months now and I sincerely do NOT believe that he is trying to pull a fast one over on anyone. He is young but certainly not a novice when it comes to herps...he knows his stuff. With that being said, I think that web cams take very poor quality photos so its hard to tell anything from them BUT....I am confident that Steve would NOT misrepresent an animal AND he would certainly allow anyone interested to come and view the animal first to be more comfortable with the purchase.

I am not sure I would buy some of the BP morphs with questionable genetics (meaning recessive vs. codominant vs. mystery) regardless of who was selling them....but thats just me and I'm not looking to be on the ground floor of a potentially new morph. However, IF someone was interested in this snake, I am comfortable with saying that Steve is an honest, caring person when it comes to his herps.

Steve, don't let anyone get to you. Keep in mind that everyone is entitled to their opinions and I think it would be to your benefit to rise above any comments and handle questions about these animals on an individual basis and in a more private manner vs. making it public. There will always be skeptics, God knows...I'm certainly one when it comes to many many herps so I don't blame anyone for questioning...it simply proves that everyone needs to be on their toes when it comes to how they represent any animals. Good luck and I'm sure whoever purchases this BP will not be disappointed!

Sincerely,
Jason

Evan...

Hey Evan,
I think you need to relax a bit, you are getting way to worked up here. Also, when I ask for lineage, if he doesnt know crap about it, like he said he got it in a trade. He should have asked, if it CB, it could already be proven. If not, he could tell us it's WC. I didnt look close enough to see, but I would like Steve to answer, if it's CB, WC or what. He should atleast know that if it's a trade deal. I mean, I wouldn't just take any old "yellowbelly" male in a trade. I have seen a lot out there, and if Steve wants no more negative comments, he should invest in either a quality digital camera, the one I have is 40, and works perfect, takes quality pictures, or just take some full shots of the snake, from top, side, and the underside of the snake. Also, Evan, I think it was out of place, and unacceptable to bring other breeders into this. You are questioning the integrity of people who have worked hard to establish and maintain. So, like I said, unacceptable.
That's just my opinion, whether nobody cares or not.
Mike Fortier
Sand and Sun Reptile

He is CB

The guy I got him from did not think of him as much, but I saw alot of potential in him. He is Cb, that is all I know about him. There is no "lineage" but he may have originated from WC's in the first place. I would actually like to settle this debate and have someone see if his yellow belly is genetic.
I have my peruvianXcolumbian boas, and cresteds to deal with next year, so I dont know If I could fit it into the scheduel. I did not receive it as a genetic yellow belly because he never bred it. It is a weird eater, it just needs a few minutes of privacy, but it still eats great, just not as fiesty as most. I feed him small rats on occassion, but mostly large mice. If Anyone is going to the Hamburg show tommorrow, call 717-424-5349 and ask for steve bates.
I will bring him with me so people can see him. If this does prove out to be genetic, it could be a small goldmine, I am not promising anything thought. The yellow on his sides do not fade into the brown like most high yellow ball. The yellow just stops, and then turns brown. If you look at the sides of a spider ball, take away the white and put a bannanna yellow in their and you got my guy. And Yes Mike I do need to get a digital camera. I have been doing quite a bit of research on them, I just want to know which one is the best for its price before I go out and buy a peice of junk. Anymore Q's? I got the A's.


Steve Bates

Mike, I am perfectly calm, but in your posts you continue to illistrate my points. You do not know what you are talking about. How would it be captive bred? Do you know how many have been produced and how many have been sold? Very few and none. Also, the size and age of the animal would make it impossible for it to have been captive bred. Simple. Also, I did not bring anyone "into this" just wanted to clarify that Rob was making statements that were out of sync with reality of the subject as you are now. I have not questioned anything of anyone except you and Rob who jumped all over this guy with the $400 animal that he posted very casually but you do not have the balls to jump on Ben Seigal and others who posted the same animals on Kingsnake for $1500-2200.

I thought I was clear in calling you a hypocrit because of it. People are quick to attack somebody they have never heard of but would not dare to have the nuggets to question a named dealer. Well that is not right. A spade is a spade. Regardless of who it is, if they call an unproven wild caught animal the same name as a proven genetic animal they are at least to some degree misrepresenting it as they have no way of knowing if it is the same thing. Perfect example, there have been hundreds of light colored wild caught adult balls imported in the past few years that I have seen all over the place as "ghost" "hypo" "burgundy" "chocolate hypo" and on and on. The reality is, as anyone who has kept balls for years will tell you, that a huge number of normal animals as they grow shed and lose pigment for a number of reasons. They have proven in over 99% of the cases to not be at all genetic. I have a female here that looks exactly like a top notch "desert ghost". It was completely normal as a baby and just shed one day and was 10 shades lighter. So these people selling all these adult animals are trying to make money by telling you they are something, for sure, that they have no way of knowing until it is bred. No imported animal can be verified by anyone.

So Mike, you can stop trying to turn this around on me. This guy wants $400 for his snake. I have seen hundreds of normal balls on the net and at shows for that and more. At least if his proves out to be just normal it is pretty. If you want a yellow belly that may be real, go pay $2000. If you want one that is guarenteed real and proven genetic, go call the Sutherlands and get on their list at $10,000 or $15,000 or whatever they are selling them for this year if they have some for sale. But to whine over this guy at $400 not giving the animal you would get for $15,000 is just lame.

Hey Evan

I was actually told it was a CB, It had no ticks, scars,mites,nothing. It could have been a nice CH that was handpicked out of a ton for its unique yellow belly, then grew up to be what it is now. He is most likely CH, If he was WC, he would be cheaper than this. I have sold Wild caughts and always said they were wild caughts, not CB. Making false claims gets you nowhere. Personally I do not enjoy keeping wild caughts no matter what they are. They must be going through hell, and so was I keeping them! well that is my take,

Steve Bates