hypo = co-dominant

when it comes to genetics and mutations alot of us get confused about it, unless were talking about about simple reccesive genes.

ive gone out and done some research to better understand how dominant and co-dominant genes work and in the process i made a discovery.

Hypo in leopard geckos is a CO-DOMINANT mutation.

why?

well believe it or not (not that its that hard to believe) we can learn alot from Ball Python breeders. they have been dealing with both dominant and co-dominant genetics for a while now in spiders and in other ball python morphs. the site i found the most helpful is here in a post by Randy Remington on ball boutiques forum: .co-dominant in balls



okay i know that hypos are dominant but what makes you say they are co-dominant?

dominant works like reccesive for the most part except when a animal is heterozygous and has one dominant allele the mutation still shows and the animals phenotype is for the mutation not the "normal" phenotype.

if you cross a hypo with a "normal" you will get what should be 50% hypos and 50% normals. however if you cross a super hypo (homozygous for hypo, meaning two hypo alleles) with a normal you will get 100% hypos. or het if you will, but since hypos are (co)dominant the hets will have a hypo phenotype. a super hypo x super hypo crossing will produce all super hypos.

so with that in mind, hypo in leopard geckos is in fact co-dominant because one exsisting dominant gene produces a hypo but if you have an animal that is homozygous (two exsisting hypo alleles) it creates a stronger variation of this mutation dubbed the "super hypo" which typically has much fewer spots.

i know there are alot of terms i should have taken the time to define like: alleles, phenotype, homozygous, heterozygous and so on but i basically just wanted to get this out there. sorry if this seems like greek to some of you. its really hard to explain co-dominant genetics without first explaining simple reccesive genetics or even normal genetics first but i really didnt have the time. once again i apologize for that. if your lost as to how simple reccesive genetics work i suggest you look to Terry Dunhams website Albino Tricolors . heres a link to his genetics tutorial: Simple Reccesive Genetics Tutorial

thanks for looking everyone,

Of course the one thing you didn't take the time to discuss is that Hypo in Ball Pythons, Boas, etc... does not express itself the same way as Hypo is defined as expressing in Leopard Geckos. Or else Hypo Snakes would look really odd with a severe reduction in patterning.

And to me the latter topic is of much more interest than the former. The expression of the trait that we call Hypo in Leopard Geckos has nothing to do with the definition of the actual term Hypo.

really?

hypomelanism means a retardation in the production of melanin. the black spots on a leopard gecko are composed of melanin so a lack of spotting would in fact be a retardation in the production of melanin.

amelanism (what we commonly refer to as albino) is a complete lack of melanin. i added that for contrast to say this...

there is still melanin in hypomealinistic leopard geckos but that is to be expected because hypomelanistic does not mean there is NO melanin it simply means it is reduced. more so in "super" hypos.

spots on the tail and on the head and a few scattered over the body doesnt make it not a hypo.

i honestly dont see the difference in how hypo is expressed in leopard geckos vs. how it is expressed in say heterodon nasicus or lampropeltis triangulum but id love to hear your theories.

i cant believe i missed that!!

after rereading your post it occured to me....

you mentioned boas. well im just going to go ahead and assume you were refering to Red Tail Boas.

A normal red tail boa has black speckles or peppering all over its body. a hypo or hypo salmon or one of the other variations of red tail boa hypos is absent of this speckling. MUCH LIKE A LEOPARD GECKO WOULD BE. the reason the whole pattern isnt missing is because...well... the whole pattern isnt made up of melanin. why would hypomelanism affect the red pattern or the brown or any other color that isnt black??????????????

melanin = black pigment, it doesnt mean pattern.

"melanin = black pigment, it doesnt mean pattern."

Exactly. A "hypo" leopard gecko has a reduction in patterning, not melanin in the patterning.



Show me some black on this animal? The patterning is still there, but there is an extreme reduction in melanin on the body.

Is it more or less a hypo than the following:




Well? Which is and which isn't hypomelanistic?

you again??

a bell albino (im guessing thats what the top one is) is amelanistic. meaning NO melanin. ahh but it still has spots.... very clever.

ever see the belly of a hypomelanistic western hognose? does it have pattern? well thats kind of a trick question because some are missing the black and some have a hazey gray color where the black would normally be. basically the belly of the second example appears to be in shed at all times while the first is missing the black all together. which one is more melanistic?



is this a hypo?

Ever see a vanishing pattern hypomelanistic honduran? damn guess those arent hypo either cause there bands fade away with age and they sure do look "really odd" as you so eloquently put it.

ever see a Hypo Leopard Gecko born a solid color? oh wait they are born with bands that fade into spots that eventually mostly fade away, kinda like a vanishing pattern hypo honduran.

for the record, i feel you did an excellent job shifting the topic from "hypo is co-dominant" to "is hypo really hypo in leopard geckos".

oh yeah and to answer your questions....

Is it more or less a hypo than the following:

Click to expand...

and

Well? Which is and which isn't hypomelanistic?

Click to expand...

the top picture is of an amelastic T+ albino. amelanistic means NO MELANIN. but being as its an albino it couldnt be more hypo because it isnt one. The bottom picture is of a hypo although ive heard you refer to it as a snow/pastel and a ghost. i'd say hes the winner of the more hypo contest BUT thats only because the first picture isnt a hypo at all. now had you asked which one is more melanistic it would be the bottom one because though the amount of melanin is greatly reduced, there is still some on the tail and head and a few spots on the back.

That's not a Bell Albino! This is a Bell Albino!



I think that is a het Bell though.

To me a hypo leopard geckos is one with reduced spotting. A super hypo has no spots on the body. IMHO.

Oh, I almost forgot

The only hypos that are dominant are the Ray Hine line hypos, like the hypo and super hypo carrot tails.

The only hypos that are dominant are the Ray Hine line hypos, like the hypo and super hypo carrot tails.

Click to expand...

those were the hypos i was refering to. and for the reasons i explained in my original post... they are in fact co-dominant.

honestly i wasnt aware of there being an additional strain of hypo in leopard geckos. is there a reccesive variation of hypo in leopard geckos? if so id really like to see one. and what are they called? im sure whoever originated the line must have given a name.

Re: you again??

diablohogs said:

a bell albino (im guessing thats what the top one is) is amelanistic. meaning NO melanin. ahh but it still has spots.... very clever.

Click to expand...

Sorry, that's not an albino/amelanistic animal. Glad you see my point though. What would you call it if not hypo?

Ok. Now I'm confused...Kelli, maybe you can explain. Why is yours a Bell and the other isn't? And what's the difference between a Bell, Tremper, etc.??

It was produced by me, but is no longer owned by me. Yes it is het for bell albino. But it itself displays no trait that has been defined in leopard geckos. So I challenge you to label it, as clearly Chad has confused it with an albino thanks to the prevalent lack of melanin yet denies that it be hypomelanistic.

those were the hypos i was refering to. and for the reasons i explained in my original post... they are in fact co-dominant.

Click to expand...

Yeah...maybe they are. i am not sure though, I have bred baldy super hypo carrot tails to normals and produced all hypos... Have you done test breedings with yours?

honestly i wasnt aware of there being an additional strain of hypo in leopard geckos. is there a reccesive variation of hypo in leopard geckos? if so id really like to see one. and what are they called? im sure whoever originated the line must have given a name.

Click to expand...

Sure there is another line of hypo, the selectively bred one. There were hypo and super hypo tangerines around way before the Ray Hine hypo carrot tails were.

if its not an albino...

than its a hypo... and i would like to change my answer to your previously asked question to: the top one.

now i would call it either:

A) a normal in shed
or
B) a different form of hypomelanism
or
C) a form of albinism

so which is it? of course you've already stated that its not amelinistic.

i really think its B. much like in many other reptiles hypomelanism tends to express itself in more than one way. however there are alot of enzymes involved in the production of pigment and it could easily be a form of albinism that is not amelinistic. we commonly refer to amelinistic as being albino when in fact all the term albino defines is the "congenital absence of any pigmentation or coloration in a person, animal, or plant..."

of course the only ones we commonly see in the reptile world are anery, axantic and amelinistic.

so im at the edge of my computer chair here.... which is it?

I know! I know!... It's a pretty leopard gecko

Guess someone will have to work to prove that one out.

Ok. Now I'm confused...Kelli, maybe you can explain. Why is yours a Bell and the other isn't? And what's the difference between a Bell, Tremper, etc.??

Click to expand...

Mine is an albino, that's why it is a Bell and the other isn't.
The other one is just a neat looking normal until it is proven to be otherwise. My opinion is that it is some form of hypo but only time and work will tell.

The differences between the 3 proven strains of albino (which are all T+ BTW) are genetic. They are three genetically different strains, and when one strain is bred to another strain you get normal appearing geckos.

Well, I was going to post some pics but my site is down right now for some reason, so I'll try later maybe.

For now, Kelli has it correct It's a pretty gecko.

I tend to think it will prove genetic, as one other gecko from that one's parents displays the trait. They were born hypomelanistic.

I do not consider reduced pattern geckos to be a true form of hypomelanism as they are born with melanin and as adults many have melanin displaying as well. If their spotting was lavendar or brown as adults that would be different. But its simply a pattern mutation where the body color overtakes the areas normally displaying pattern.

how sure are you?

that it isnt a bell albino...?

you say its a het... it looks like a bell to me, maybe not one as nice as what Kelli showed us but i still think its possible that it is a Bell. What were the parents? were they bell hets? or were they a normal x bell/het for bell?

you say you sold it... what did you sell it as? what is it labeled on the website you got the picture from?

well...

I do not consider reduced pattern geckos to be a true form of hypomelanism as they are born with melanin and as adults many have melanin displaying as well. If their spotting was lavendar or brown as adults that would be different. But its simply a pattern mutation where the body color overtakes the areas normally displaying pattern.

Click to expand...

okay well the reduced pattern gene in leopard geckos is co-dominant.

i still think that it is hypomelanism being expressed in the Ray Hines line... mainly because if you look on the bottom of that hog i posted there is black. solid black. it is greatly reduced and its still a hypo.

hypo means reduced. its the opposite of hyper. it doesnt indicate a complete absence of melanin only that it is reduced. when this is proven genetic it is deemed hypomelanistic, a gene that when it is the phenotype, retards the production of melanin. by definition a Ray Hines hypo is a hypo.

matter of fact the father of NEO, Spot, has brown spots on his head and body (there black on his tail) and from what i noticed, when there are spots on a ray hines hypos body and head they usually are faded to a brown color. NEO was born with brown bands as opposed to black and as they fade they are becoming a lighter and lighter brown. if you would like to see NEO and Spot there are pictures of them both on the "Introducing NEO" thread right here in the leopard gecko forum and you can judge for yourself.

also, i believe that Ray Hines hypos were line bred for less spotting making the lack of spots a line bred thing.

Hypos have spots (hetrozygous for co-dominant hypo), Super Hypos do not (homozygous for co-dominant hypo).

that it isnt a bell albino...?

you say its a het... it looks like a bell to me, maybe not one as nice as what Kelli showed us but i still think its possible that it is a Bell. What were the parents? were they bell hets? or were they a normal x bell/het for bell?

you say you sold it... what did you sell it as? what is it labeled on the website you got the picture from?

Click to expand...

Bell x Bold Stripe. Sold simply as a bell het to a close friend of mine. I don't believe she has called it anything other than a bell het either, although both of us are very excited to see how offspring turn out.

hypo means reduced. its the opposite of hyper. it doesnt indicate a complete absence of melanin only that it is reduced. when this is proven genetic it is deemed hypomelanistic, a gene that when it is the phenotype, retards the production of melanin. by definition a Ray Hines hypo is a hypo.

Click to expand...

Granted. But I'm sure you've noticed the typical transition from juvinile to adult leopard gecko where the solid black bands fade, change colors, and so on. There are other colors that can manifest in the pattern, not just black. Which is why I call it a pattern mutation.