Anyone currently breeding Boa constrictor melanogastor (sic?)?

Just curious if anyone is breeding or has photos of this redtail boa which if memory serves correctly had the common name of "Black-bellied Boa" assigned to it by Langhammer?

Kevin

I believe Vin Russo at Cutting Edge Herps is or is trying to.

Tom

Some one needs to go to Ecuador and get some Black Bellie Boas.

Vin Russo has had a 12 ft female for several years but has been unable to locate a male.

I think the major problem is that it is not recognized subspecie by most.

It could very well be just a melanistic form of Bcc.

Like I said some one has to go and get some to Ecuador.

I am sure the Ecuador Goverment would not mind allowing the export of a few specimens to a biologist or Zoologist with a good cause.

Regards, Luis

a couple more questions

I found Vincent's website and sent him a email in regards to his efforts at breeding B. c. melanogaster, but if he only has a female its a moot point for now anyway (thanks Tom for the lead!).

I had a pair, 1.1, of what I thought was this subspecies that I obtained from the pet trade before I had read Langhammer's article. I picked them up because of their unique appearence, i.e. black bellies and the connecting dorsal pattern which appeared similar to some Surinam redtail dorsal patterns I had seen previously. After reviewing Langhammer's article, including writing a review of same, I came to the tentative conclusion that they were probably melanogaster, but without locality data no firm conclusions could be drawn. They were both sold with the rest of my Boa constrictor breeders in 1985 to pursue a career in the medical field - big mistake on my part! Oh well, live and learn until the grave calls your name.

I take it then that no up and coming herpetologist has undertaken the monumental task of working out the taxonomy of this species for their doctoral dissertation? What about any other papers being written on the taxonomy of B. constrictor since Langhammer's paper was published? Been pretty much out of the loop since 85 so any info is appreciated.

Kevin

I'm a Little Puzzled Kevin

I sent an adult male Melanogaster to Vin and I later ended up buying it back from him. Unfortunately, I had it sent directly to Kim Felts of Southern CA and have never seen it or a female I also sent her on breeder loan since. There's a whole thread on that about her here on the BOI. Vin Russo told me he was getting out of the large boas and specializing on dwarfs and locality boas. If I ever get my animals back I will consider selling the male only after producing a litter with him. It's supposed to be in the works right now but as I said I got ripped off by Kim Felts.

Here is a pic of my 12' melanogaster. Vin Russo was at my store and said it was the biggest boa he has ever seen. At one time I tried to purchase Greg Riso's male but Vin Russo beat me to it by only minutes....lol
Vin & I were going to work together on breeding these but now the male is nowwhere to be found.
Greg if you should ever recover him I surely would like to purchase him or work some sort of breeding loan with you.

Yeah, I know Steve

It's a shame someone that least deserves such a beautiful boa and has no clue about how rare they are has it. I''ve seen your posts at Kingsnake looking for a male and here I have one somewhere but who knows where? Needless to say I have had a terrible time with breeding loans but I'd consider doing something with you since these NEED to be bred. You'll be the first person I contact if it surfaces and makes it's way back home.

Thanks Greg

If someone happens to contact me with a male melanogaster I'll send you over a pic to make sure it's not your male. If for some reason he's yours you'll know who has it and can maybe figure out what needs to be done that you get it back.
I've been searching for a male for a very long time and I'm coming up empty

I will also keep

a eye out for a male melanogaster and hopefully reconnect with some old boidae breeder contacts I had in Calif. Possibly one of them may know where a certain male is located with any luck.

On another note, after reviewing some of the photos of this boa subspecies, I see where the controversey arises over this subspecies being nothing more than a color variation of B. c. imperator. I know I no longer have my copy of Langhammer's article, but will try and dig up my review of same and discuss this further. That is, if anyone is interested?

Kevin

Kevin

If it is a color variation it would have to be from B c constrictor not B c imperator.

Regards, Luis

more on melanogaster

I found my review of Langhammer's original description of B. C. melanogaster published in Notes from Noah, XI (8) 1984. To qoute from it, in part. "His description of B. c. melanogaster is based on nine type specimens from the Morona Santiago province in Ecuador. He has also seen identical material from the Napo province of Ecuador. Due to the "still relatively innacessible" Amazonian jungles of eastern Ecuador he states that the eastern range will remain unknown for some time, but he expects the range will overlap into adjacent Amazonian areas of southern Colombia and northern Peru.

To continue qouting, "Langhammer's discussions on the other subspecies of Boa constrictor are very interesting. Besides four obvious synonyms, B. c. diviniloqua, B. c. eques, B. c. var. isthmica, and B. c. mexicana, he also agrees with Zweifel (1960. Bull. Amer. Mus. Nat. Hist., 119 (2) in placing B. c. sigma in the synonymy of B. c. imperator. In addition, he places both B. c. ortonii and B. c. sabogae in the synonymy of B. c. imperator."
Unqoute.

With B. c. ortonii being placed into the synonmy of imperator a previous redtail subspecies cease to exist beyond a possible color variation. This brings me to the photo Steve posted. Previously, not having any locality data available for a particular animal, I would have declared that snake a B. c. "ortonii." Same with a melanogaster photo published on Vincent's website. Where exactly does the range of B. c. imperator and B. c. constrictor intergrade? I thought it was in Colombia and northern Peru?

Kevin

Andes

I dusted off my World Atlas and now see that the Andes would make a natural barrier to the integradation of B. c. imperator and B. c. constrictor (or B. c. melanogaster for that matter) through Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru. This is assuming there are no major passes suitable for this species to intergrade however.
So B. c. "ortonii" is a western coastal Peruvian boa and many "Peruvian Redtails" being sold on this forum are actually B. c. constrictor from eastern Peru. If my assumptions are wrong, please correct me.

Kevin

Kevin,

You got it!

See B. c. ortonii is fund west of the Andes and it is probably the southernmost B. c. imperator.

Some one really needs to bring some light into Boa constrictor imperator...

The other Peruvian Boas such as Pucallpa Peru locale and the Iquitos Peru locale are the Boa c. constrictor found on the western range of B. c. constrictor which is of course east of the Andes.

Boa c. melanogaster is a variant of the Boa c. constrictor. Which in my opinion is mlanistic...

Maybe these boas inhabit the eastern slopes of the Andes and have adjusted to a somewhat cooler climate and have become darker and darker.

Just like the Argentine Boas B. c. occidentalis their dark coloration helps them absorb heat faster.

Like I said before some one has to import some wild stock.

I am familiar with the procedure but I do not fulfill the requirements to grant CITES II Export documentation.

Regards, Luis.