View Full Version : What Kind Of Shop Do You Run?
06-28-2002, 10:10 AM
Just curious to see the size/scope of the people that frequent this board.
07-24-2002, 11:58 PM
I wonder, are people kidding or are they really that good at business? What I am referring to is the WHOPPING 53.85% of people (as of 7/2402) who voted that they are hobbyists who sell just enough to support their hobby. Is there a glutt of business mavens among herpers - and if they are really doing that good they should consider going into real business as they are sure beating the odds by breaking even! Business is a hard way of life and most businesses fall flat on their faces without ever seeing break even budgets let alone a profit. All I can say is WOW - I am impressed, but I still wonder - is it that others are only fooling us and themselves by thinking they are truly breaking even after all expenses are considered?
07-25-2002, 12:21 AM
I bet most of those are thinking:
"My food items (crickets in my case) are paid for and I can afford new animals periodically from my sales"
so they are supporting their habit.
Your right when you become a "business" all those little things you don't think about before add up in a hurry (business license, insurance, business cards, electricity, etc)
07-26-2002, 09:57 PM
There are people making money at this hobby? Man, I've been doing it all wrong, I just spend money. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
07-27-2002, 11:55 AM
We are in our 4 th year of open shop. It is ruff sometimes. But we pay the bills. It is all what you are willing to put into it. Many times I have been ready to go get a job and just let Arnie run the shop but we arenít giving up yet. Honesty and nice animals and much care are what make the difference.
What really makes it tough is when people ripe off the small business man. I have bounced checks in the total of $400.00 to take to the State police right now. And have been ripped off by
Michael McCaughrean of
K&M Exotic Reptiles
441 N. Lewis Rd Royersford PA 19468
And a few more. That is the worst part of it. Also had power outages and lost some reptiles. There is hardship as with most small business . Like I said its what your willing to put into it.
07-28-2002, 12:38 AM
HI i am 14 and i sell carpets and breed them (JUst started these) i used to do balls, burms, anacondas, rocks, i would make more then 400- dollars at one show. The only reason i don't have snakes over 15 ft any more is because my mom had a baby and wanted me to go out 4 a while (And the rock got hungry one night (and out) and ate the family dog. (Terrier)
No one can't tell me they don't make money from there hobby man either u suck at selling or just have crap ( Or aren't known yet)
Do what u love and love what u do. Don't take offense to what i say these r my opions and mine a lone.
07-28-2002, 12:40 AM
But i also don't have any bills other then food and table costs tho......
07-28-2002, 02:47 AM
Well, P120_Cartman, maybe when you're more than 14, you'll realize that 400 dollars a show doesn't amount to much profit.....and that saying "don't take offense" after you've made an offensive statement doesn't make the statement less offensive... and that there are many hundreds of herps bred in captivity, and they are not all crap and not all profitable.
07-28-2002, 04:03 AM
O, so you bred these 15+ foot snakes when you were 10 and 11? Riiiiiight.
07-28-2002, 04:13 AM
I guess it seems that you also keep and breed "Pythons and boas- none over 15 ft. esp chrondos, gtp's, etb's, true rtbs, and Indigos and mandarin ratsnakes."
You must have really made a killing off of your big snakes to be able to afford that collection at 14.
O, by the way, do you have a name? I mean besides "Cartman."
07-28-2002, 10:09 AM
$400 was probably a lot of profit when mom takes care of the electric bill, helps with the vet bill, probably helped with the original purchase, etc <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
To have the wisdom of a teenager without all the responsibilities to drag you down (have an 18 year old now that has the world figured out to a T, well except when she gets her first electric bill next month at her new apartment and finds out why the rest of the world stresses about money) <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
07-28-2002, 01:49 PM
Yes i do it is Patrick Malloy. NOw thank u. I have never killed any snakes and my mom and dad helped with vet bills they also helped me run my table. I also helped with the bills i had. (Only around $40)
I want to do chrondos, gtp's, etb's, true rtbs, and Indigos and mandarin ratsnakes. But i don't have that much money so i raise others to help me afford them.
I kept my burms and rocks on a small diet and never got bigger then 15 ft.
I also only did one pair at a time, to those of u with a job (I only have a summer job) u can afford to have a lot of snake running around i can only have 4 at a time (2 here and 2 there) Taking what i said off my intrests is kind of a i don't know cruel. Most of u haven't dealt with me personally or even seen my snakes or anything.
Lucas my collection exsits only of (At the moment) Coastal carpet pythons and wc feeding jaya gtps.
Also i did yellow anacondas not green.
Brian i am 14 i will send u a birth certificate if u want. "Not all r profitable" most r u just have to know where your snakes sell the highest at.
"o so you bred these 15+ foot snakes when you were 10 and 11? Riiiiiight."
no i would of had to buy them when i was at least 7 or 8 then. I bought the anas when i was about 10, and the rocks when i was 11 (Then i sold these after my male"Bitey" ate the family pet when i was 13), i have owned my green burm since i was about 8 but never breed until 13.
07-28-2002, 02:05 PM
"Not all r profitable" most r u just have to know where your snakes sell the highest at
Well, snakes aren't the only reptile, are they? Snakes have pretty low upkeep compared to a lot of other herps. Myopia must be a real kick.
07-28-2002, 02:09 PM
no i also do black rough throught monitors just as pets if they bred good if they don't even better.
07-28-2002, 02:19 PM
Also not highest but where the market is for them.
sorry it probaly looks really bad
07-28-2002, 06:43 PM
Maybe I can divert this thread back to where it started...
Personally, I answered "full time breeder", but that doesn't account for the fact that I also need to work part time to keep the bills paid. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I have a few things leaning in my favor too, though, such as: a low cost of living because I don't mind living in a tin can, and a large savings account from legally hacking into the biggest banks in the world; two major contributors to my (theoretical) ability to support myself into the future by breeding. Note: I have yet to prove this theory, so it's mere conjecture right now.
07-28-2002, 07:31 PM
Well what I am seeing so far, is that most people who answered my inquiry (not the poll but my question) probably do not make a real profit or even break even from their hobby. I am still in awe that over 50% say, in the poll, they make enough to support their hobby - that is stupendous.
Sure I make money selling snakes BUT I SURE DON"T BREAK EVEN OR MAKE A PROFIT. Unlike this fellow Cartman, I have bills to pay in relation to my herp keeping, mom don't pay squat for me I have been a grown up (sorry Peter Pan) for way too long. I pay for food, medicines (no vet bill in years - knock on wood), tanks, tops, light fixtures, bulbs, electricity, the mortgage on my house (I keep my snakes in part of my house so that counts too at least if you break it down to how much of the mortgage goes to pay that section of the house - no free parking as in Monopoly). Furthermore I pay for: substrate, new animals, donations I make to my herp society, annual dues for my herp society, printer ink for articles I write for the society, table fees at our yearly show, table fees at other shows (sometimes these are free because I get space on our society table), gasoline I use getting to the shows and to exhibits that I volunteer for for my society, tolls I pay getting to the shows (the last show cost me $7.00 in tolls alone), incubators, incubating medium, water (yes the town does send me a water bill, and part of the water goes to my animals - can you imagine that).
Guess what value of animals and goods I sold at the last show I was at: $233. Guess what I spent at that same show:
Gasoline: $ 3.50
Tolls: $ 3.00
Society Shirt: $13.00 (I used their table
for free so you bet
I bought a shirt,
that is good business
assuring I get free space
Rosy Boa (adult): $40.00
That alone is $79.50, off of the 233 I made selling. That leaves me $153.50. Now I have to pay sales tax to NY on the money I made selling - on the total, that is on the gross profit and not my net profit. That is 8.25 percent of $233 or $19.22. I am now down to $134 and change. Now how about the live mice I had to buy today, because I have some baby BPs for sale that absolutely do not eat thawed yet. I have fed them all 4 times now at $1.29 plus tax for each mouse. I had seven babies and sold 2 this past show. I still have 5 hungry ones. Then of course there are my Desert Kingsnakes (splendida breeder pair) with 6 eggs in the incubator. There are also 2 yearling BPs I am saving for future breeders. Their is a left over Black Thayeri from last year, a leftover gray rat snake, a Yellow Rat Snake, a Sinaloan Milk Snake, an Eastern Milk Snake, two Western hognose Snakes, the new Rosy Boa, two Sonoran Gopher Snakes, A Sonoran Toad, A musk turtle and so on........... They all have to eat, drink, be housed, kept warm and so on. It all cost moolah! This is my hobby, not a business. Sure I make some money to help it along - but I sure do not break even. Even if I wanted to breed high end stuff - I still have to pay all of those bills, and would be more likely to have a vet medicate my animals than me doing it. In fact I am slowly getting into more expensice animals, now that I have the basics down on keeping and breeding snakes. I have been doing it for about 35 years and finally gfeel ready to give it a go to possibly make some profit.
Cartman - as for high end stuff - if you sold $400 worth of snakes and it was only one snake you sold - you barely made it out of the top of the low end to mid level. If it was two snakes that totaled that much, then you are barely at the top of low end. If it was more than two snakes - then who is kidding who - you are selling low end stuff. You talk about selling high end animals, well that would be a piebald Ball Python for a few thousand apiece, or a new morph of a Womas also in the multi thousand dollar range. That my friend is high end, while on the other hand $400 worth of snakes at a show when it was more than one snake ain't much more than chicken scratch. Sure my snakes are less valuable than that - but I know my place and the value of the bills I pay; I also know when to call a profit a profit and when not to act as if I am the next Bill Gates of snake keeping.
07-28-2002, 07:32 PM
By the way, Isee the percentage of people who believe they break even has dropped dramtically!
07-31-2002, 09:40 PM
Man, this cartman kid has it all figured out. He knows just where to sell his snakes to get top dollar. He only does high end snakes ;-) , He starves his snakes to keep them small and his parents must be helping him out with all the money they are not spending on his education. I'm sorry but as an ex-teacher I can't help but be bothered by posts like his. I hope he is able to make a living at selling snakes, because if he has to rely on his education to get him a job, I feel sorry for the taxpayers of his state.
08-01-2002, 08:20 PM
swinging back on topic, here we go...
I don't count electricity bills in my calculation as my bf's 4 computers (not to mention the a/c) that he runs WAY outdoes any usage I have...during the summer I have all heat turned off in my reptile room and it's a steady 83 degrees. Late last year and early this year I bumped up my future breeders considerably and with the exception of 2 more snakes to pair up what I've got, I'm done for a while. In a couple of years I might make a small profit being that everyone will be old enough to produce for mom <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> The beauty of being a computer geek is being able to afford my hobby...and yes I answered hobbyist breeder.
now as to mr. I'm 14 and too cool for words:
get through HS, do some time in college...it's good for you and maybe you'll learn a few lessons on life. Granted I haven't finished my degree yet (hello extended plan!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> but at least I can say I made it though a couple of years before I joined the wonderful world of working full time.
The rest of us can't fall back on mom and dad anymore...some of us send money to our parents instead of them sending money to us.
08-03-2002, 12:23 AM
I tried to stay out of but i buy live mice from my dads friend at $.25 and buy about 50 or so i bought rats same guy 1.00 i bought chickens same guy 2.50 and rabbits 4.00.
For sschind listen swing by if your in Illinois, esp chicago.
Now LadyChaos i am saving my profits for college which is why i can't do high end snakes tho i want too but my mom says the only way i get in that acc. is if i am going to college or she dies (for u sickos no i am not going to kill my mom for some womas or others some one would of said it first)
I also have applied for jobs but they can't hire until i am 14 1/2 with a workers permit besides i have been busy my coastals tried eating each other- I fed them on saturday and feed every 10 days the guy i bought them from (Hale Reptiles) said would did u do? iu said i moved them to clean the cage he said ahh the way i fed them was by moving them to a feeding container so they thought they were getting food bring her to the swap and i will check her out.
My Mom is starting to make me buy more and more of my stuff, which was my idea.
I pay for this tanks, tops, light fixtures, bulbs, and their food.
"He starves his snakes to keep them small and his parents must be helping him out with all the money they are not spending on his education."
Starve them? i have about 50 dollars coming in and i spend as much as possibly to keep them happy and fed now with burm s and others insted of 4 8 lb rabbits i would give him 3 normals he was fed that way all his life and was used to it. Just an ex.
U call green burms high end and rocks high end? Diffcult yes but high end no.
08-03-2002, 12:55 AM
Are your sales per month in the $3,000 range? For an adult to be breaking even as a reptile business you need to be in this range (at the least, as I know I'm low). Figure food to feed yourself, rent on a small apartment, food for your animals, equipment for your animals, marketing supplies, business taxes, etc. (ok, 3,000 is way too low, but good enough to make this point)
You said you did $400 at one show. Do you do 7 - 8 shows per month? (that's what you need to do).
Your 100% correct in that you need only find the right spot to sell and sell only high end animals....except that doesn't match the real world. Most animals sold in the pet industry are "average" as this is what the general public is willing to pay for (there are more buyers that fit the "general public" demographic than fit the "serious collector" demographic). If you can sell snake A for $100.00 profit (and only sell 1) or you can sell snake B for $10.00 profit (and sell 200) which do you sell? Welcome to economics 101.
It sounds like you have a good business head for a 14 year old, but a little experience in the "cut throat" real world will do some good and maybe change your views a little.
On another note: I want to take back my comment on your parent's carrying your weight. You said they helped at your table. Kudos. I think that is great that they helped. One day (if not already) you will realize what a great assistance they have been.
08-03-2002, 01:25 AM
I only do about 2-3 shows and what i make varys on what i have.
"If you can sell snake A for $100.00 profit (and only sell 1) or you can sell snake B for $10.00 profit (and sell 200) which do you sell? Welcome to economics 101."
If i had it my why i would do both! I do realize what a help my parents have been and they know that i can't wait until i can do something like this to help them out.
Does anyone know anyshows in ILL other then the Lee watsons and the one in Tinley park and the other in peoria?
Thanks i need to be more exposed. Thanks.
08-03-2002, 01:43 AM
What are you going to be selling at these shows? I thought you sold all your stuff off and you were just getting into these others. ....Hard to get exposure if you have nothing to sell.
08-03-2002, 02:09 AM
As Lucas said, you need to figure out your supply channels. Being exposed does no good unless you have something to show <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
08-03-2002, 03:48 PM
I know i am looking new shows for when i do have stuff just have my coastals and sold my w/c gtps. I like to be prepared for whatever comes my way.
08-10-2002, 10:21 PM
I know this thread is pretty much dead but i will be at lee Watsons reptileswap with my coastals and my New high balck and yellow jungles swing by if there. Just walikng around with them really (No table)
08-10-2002, 11:21 PM
hmm no offense .... are these for sale <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>"Just walikng around with them really (No table)
" so that would lesson the overhead if you dont get a table so of course that increases you profit margin by uhmmm 300% or so ....
08-10-2002, 11:34 PM
I bring them there so i can handle my female more (Shes a B*tch) If i get a good offer they may be up for sale. Talk to people who go there as sellers and buyers, such as Evan Stahl, Someone from Bob Clark was there don't think it was him tho, The female will be up for grabs for any offer at or above what i payed.
08-11-2002, 09:32 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I bring them there so i can handle my female more (Shes a B*tch) If i get a good offer they may be up for sale.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ok heres a potential problem ... if you say shes a B2tch then is carrying her around in a open area with others around going to stress her out to make her unmanageable? and is it fair for you to stray in and possibly sale 1-2 snakes that someone just happened to ask if "is it for sale" then there you have gone in and possibly sold 300-500 worth of snakes inturn thats cutting out th paying vendors that have to put up with people just walking around selling snakes off there backs . as they pay to have there stuff for sale so inturn its a form of cutthroating you fellow herpers or in esscense "stealing from under there noses" if you have intentions of saleing if the price is right put your dues up and pay for the space , if not post it for sale here where its free ! just my .02 dont be offended look at it from the other side !
08-12-2002, 12:03 AM
o.k now she acts fine in public. and all the tables are 18 dollars i am not buying a table for one snake. seriously talk to people who go there!!!
08-12-2002, 09:42 AM
If you have never been to Lee's swap let me tell you that carry ins are a pretty common thing. At every show you can expect to see probably 20 to 30 people just walking around with animals to sell who paid nothing more than the $3.00 admission fee, unless he charges more for people bringing in animals. Many of them are people with gators or burms or other big herps they don't want any more. Sometimes they are just people wanting to get rid of some babies that their animals had. Ive seen some pretty stressed out chameleons being carted around because at most shows the crowd is shoulder to shoulder and anything you are carrying is at risk of being crushed or knocked out of your hands. Sometimes you can get good deals other times the people want more than the vendors. I don't know how the paying vendors feel about it but on some occasions there are more carryins than paying vendors. Of course where else can you go and get a capybara, or maybe even a wallaby (note, these were for sale by two different paying vendors. One of them a regular)
08-12-2002, 04:46 PM
sschind thank u very much!!!! i also hate the crowd there so i am there very early as soon as it opens or 1 hr b4 closing.
08-13-2002, 02:43 AM
depending on the show, I have been known to pay the table fee just to be able to get in early and get in on the best animals. Besides, many vendors will give other vendors a better deal. I can't count the number of times I have seen animals for sale at a show that were purchased from another vendor just before the show opened to the public.
08-13-2002, 11:31 PM
r u going to b there on sunday if so let me know where your table is i will stop by and show u some of what i have.
08-14-2002, 09:54 PM
I don't usually set up at Lee's show. I own a retail shop and so I do some of my buying from there when the price is right. I probably won't be there this Sunday as I only have on girl that I trust to run the shop when I am not around and she isn't available much through the summer.
08-15-2002, 04:07 PM
I am just getting in on the "trying to pay for my hobby" side. I sell most of my leos to a friend of mine who supplies pet stores - and will start "trying" to sell my higher end leos, velvets, crested and gargoyles on line. Right now - my set up is small - I'm breeding less than 30 geckos - and the wholesale stuff is paying for crickets, mealies and a few other things. I don't expect to make too much. In fact, I probably do more for myself by breeding/raising mealies than from the sales.
I don't ever plan to quit my day job. Selling a few geckos helps calm my wife down when she sees the cricket bill!!!!
08-17-2002, 04:58 PM
why don't u raise the crickets or is just not worth it?
i used to do the same ting accept with mice until my dad's friend found out i had snakes and gave me discounts.
08-17-2002, 05:00 PM
one more thing sschind he still has the capybara, i think he wants 600 or 400.
08-30-2002, 06:39 PM
Well, I have increased my collection in the past year-year and a half to over 400 snakes now. I have burms, retics, balls, boas, colubrids and even some big tegus. I find that as a full time breeder I have as much work as I can do 18-20 hours a day seven days a week. On top of this I still set up at shows and am hosting my own annual show. To be a full time breeder and make enough money to pay your bills and maybe some day get ahead in this world is not an easy task. I have friends who are full time large scale breeding business'. They have thousands of animals. As a hobbiest that has a small collection can any of you imagine the work load maintaining thousands? It is staggering. One of my friends produces in the neighborhood of 70,000 snakes a year while another produced over 50,000 leopard geckos on top of his snake collection. They make money, but work very hard and make many sacrifices. I would just like to say to all of you that you have to find that balance between having a nice collection that you enjoy and having more than you can handle. Never let the animals go without the care they need in pursuit of a profit.
As for Steve and Patrick, I'll be at the Sunday show in Streamwood with all kinds of goodies. Hope to see you there.
08-31-2002, 06:02 PM
I was there with my coastals and i also got a female ball.
Evan wheres ur table will u be there any time this month?
09-03-2002, 01:37 AM
That was a mistake, I will be at both shows in September. Evan
09-03-2002, 05:28 PM
Well when i had last posted on this topic i was a hobby breeder just enough to make ends meet !! with a full time job to pay bills.But with careful thought and planning all thats about to change drastically as i am currently in the planing & design stages of my soon to be brand new snake breeding facility. It is not going to be a huge one but i plan on housing around 15 breeding pairs in it by the first of 2003 and with room to accomodate in the range of 100 babies on average along with yearlings & sub adults in that # figure . this will also be used for the cage building and rodent breeding facility as well. this will be slated to be in use up and running with in 30-45 days i will be working on several breeding projects with super clean columbians , anerys, hypos & het for albinos along with a number of BCC projects in the wings! so for any one with questions or just wanting to inquire on possible available animals please feel free to email me a firstname.lastname@example.org
09-07-2002, 12:33 AM
Good Luck and Evan see u tommorow unless your late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
09-09-2002, 05:48 AM
Off topic here but...
This is why I hate kids.
They don't know enough to know what they don't know. And they're loud about it. Waving their ignorance like a banner.
And "Kid" has nothing to do with age. There's a coincidental area where many young individuals tend to display this trait but they certainly aren't the only ones capable of it and it isn't an automatic trait that applies to every young individual. Just most of them.
09-21-2002, 11:51 PM
In your post you said " this is why I hate kids ". What the hell kind of statement is that ? Kids are the future of the herps, more kids get into herps every year than adults and from what I have seen take better care of their herps than some adults I have seen. You made a point of saying how kids know it all and wave their ignorance around loudly or something to that affect ..... well that's just kids ! They all know it all and will tell you that you know squat and that just goes along with being a kid. I am speaking from experience since I have an ( almost ) 18 year old son and also a 14 year old son. And the funny thing is that their friends are the same way .... that's because theyr'e kids. People may take issue with some of the things that Patrick is saying but that is also because they are adults judging him as an adult expecting him to to be doing everything like an adult would, but he is a kid !!! I find things wrong with some of things he is saying and I don't agree with the practice of walking around selling animals for free when other people pay to sell their animals, but then again that seems to be common place at that particular show. The point I am trying to make is that it is fine to tell him where and what he is doing wrong but at the same time you have to applaude him for what he has accomplished so far, as far as his efforts, the responsibility he is taking on, and the fact that like alot of 14 year olds has more than the video games on his mind. This kid could use some help to be sure but he is off to a good start and I think it's wrong to condemn him and judge him like an adult. Patrick, you keep up the hard work and always remember you never know it all ..... EVER !!! Keep an open mind and have fun with your herps.
Sunshine State Reptiles
09-22-2002, 12:12 AM
Thanks Gary Walsch.....also this season i will have up for sale ball pythons and i will contiue to be with herps until i can't afford what i want...i also know i will never know everything but i can act like it.
09-22-2002, 12:30 AM
Thanks Gary Walsch.....also this season i will have up for sale ball pythons and i will contiue to be with herps until i can't afford what i want...i also know i will never know everything but i can act like it. LOL, know as for hating kids don't you remember what you where like back then? Also i will actually get peoples names and other things who buy from me i will have a "big" refference from here in a few weeks.
quote-I find things wrong with some of things he is saying and I don't agree with the practice of walking around selling animals for free when other people pay to sell their animals, but then again that seems to be common place at that particular show.-end quote
Also this is extremely common and most normal people doing this are only selling one animal but it gets cramped and i (for example) stay outside until he/she is sold. Its not compltely free tho... all you pay is admission.
I always am open to new ideas. Thanks Happy Herping also Kolleen Jenks please take your time i am in no rush
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