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Flagyl / pancur for imported babies need help folks

Alan-

Your best option is to see a vet and have he/she perform a cloacal swab or wash and then analyze it under a microscope so you can know what sort of parasite (if any) you are dealing with.

Outside of that you can try giving flagyl by tubing it down into their stomach. Since they are puking it probably would not be of any value to inject the flagyl into the feeder rodent.

Dosages I have here for flagyl are 0.1cc per 12.5 grams of body weight.

However, if the animal has a virus or bacterial infection, flagyl is going to have no effect on the animal. Flagyl only treats flagellated protozoans not worms, bacterial infections, viruses etc.

FYI- The panacure dosage I have here is 40-50 mg/kg.

Other helpful items:

KG kilogram (1000 grams or 2.2 pounds)
MG milligram (1 MG = 0.001 gram)
25 mg = 1cc

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
alan why kind of boas are we talking bout here?
in some species the panacure dosing is very critical and the age.... babies will roll very quickly with an overdose however minute it is... also panacure is hard on the system of babies especially and generally you need to mix it with turkey based baby food and some pedialite. best bet is a vet.
i have alot heard that emmies can be very touchy to panacure and also bcc
 
also, another tratment option is ivermec BUT it is HARSH and IMO needs to be administered buy a qualified vet.... overdosing is VERY easy on any snakes and ivermec only is needed for certain types of parasites and if you do not have those DONT use it
 
crap my post on panacur was ment to be flagyl;... i have been on a constant brain fart rollercoaster lately
panacure is "relitively safe" which flagy is what i was speqaking bout in my other thread sorry
 
have you expressed your disatisfaction to MNR? how long have you had the animals?
most people do a "shotgun" worming anyhow and generally only use panacure and some use flagyl... depending on the type of parasite it may not even have helped. how long had he had these animals prior to sending them to you? enough time to even know if they ate or regurged? and it sucks that this has happened but if its a "fresh: import this is alot of times is whats associated with em... a parasite load from hell
 
doesnt matter how clean his buddies place is in miami... the parasites come from being in the wild and when they are farmed or trapped and imported the levels of stress become so high that the animals imune system is lowered and that when the problems arise... i would suspect they live with these parasites their whole lives and experience little to no ill effects (unless they are exposed to a virus or some sort of disease)... did you ask him if any had regurged with in the time he had them? this much later you really can not get a refund or anything so you are now going to have to pay the bill for a vet check fecal float and general exam and medications. when boas regurge you should wait a minmum of 14 (21 days is better) before feeding them again so they can establish the correct gut flora and after the first regurge you would want to offer them a significantly smaller prey item until they can hold it down or be taken to a vet
good luck alan
 
hello
are these the same babies that just the other day he was claiming were produced just down the block from his house in miami?? sounds like a bad guy post is in order try flagyl for 5 days then follow up after 5 days with nutibact dont go with the panicure your self make sure a vet helps you with that if needed wait 14 days before you try feeding them again and make sure that the temps are within the proper ranges also how are you houseing the babies? if you need any help feel free to email me at [email protected]
thanks
john peraza
 
what kinda import bci for that sum of money? i cant think of many bci except for some localities (of legit origin) what were the like wc hypos or something?
 
Alan, hope you have your problem rectified by now, but in the meantime, I would like to discuss flagyl some more. Some local breeders had apparently caused sterility/reproduction problems in some colubrids from overdosing their snakes with this medication. Have anyone else heard of or had this problem with flagyl? The few times I have used it, I have always been light on the dosage administered except with a very light cream colored, orange tail blotches, imported common BC I picked up in 84 for the original albino BC project. The protozoans got so out of with her that she began regurging everything within a month of purchase and was becoming very lethargic. This occurred in a relatively short time with not much warning besides the regurging and I was forcing her for growth purposes. I took her to a vet even though I was quite capable of treating her myself, but did not want to risk losing her (what great heteros she would have produced if I did not leave the herp field!).

Kevin
 
honestly alan, it being two months later or whatbot they do not have to do a single thing if you were not happy they had not been dewormed even after he sent them you should have sent them back asap... maybe yall could have worked out something then. it being this long he doesnt have to do anything and also when buying fresh imports you have to be aware even if they had been deparitised prior to him sending them they still could be having these same problems. correct worming takes place over several weeks an initial first does a week later (some people wait two) then the second dose and finally the third a week latr (again some people wait two). one shot gun worming wouldnt have rid them from parasites just killed any of the live ones but possibly not all and not any eggs.


as far as it is to my understanding on flagyl it is easy to overdose and depending on the animal whether adult or neonate. different species of animals process the medications differently seems like based on the type of metabolism they have and the type of snake they are... the doages for boa constrictor and the dosages for pythons differ and i would assume the same with colubrids as well.. and even let says with in the python family, chonmdros can not take the same dosing as lets say a ball python. what treats obe animal may very well kill another and another factor i have heard of is oral dosing vs. injections.... oral seems to work much better and safer than injected meds
 
hello alan
if you dont mind me askin how did you pay for these guys?if by credit card do a charge back maybe that will get his attention
also if you didnt get timely responses from him why did you send him any money? try giveing the babies some nutribact and waiting 2-3 days before you feed them again maybe this will help them keep the meals down
john peraza
 
fertility problems

Robin, we all know colubrids are "tough" snakes and if infertility can result in the over usage of flagyl in that family it certainly could be a problem with boids too. I basically just wanted to throw this possibility out here for others to be aware of. It would be a shame to see someone spend voocoo dollars on baby boas and then find out when they are adults that they are worthless as breeders.

Kevin
 
Not sure of the name, but I had a powder substance referred to me by Frank Retes (he and Ernie Wagner are the ones who started the whole reptile breeding scene). This was a yellow powder substance available from a local veterinarian supply shop used for treating turkeys and was dissolved in water and either administered in food animals or drinking water or both. Frank swore by it and would always offer in drinking water to newly arrived snakes whether or not they were ill in some way. I used it as habit in treating imported BC and it did appear to get them on feed, but I do not think it had ever been clinically tested or recommeded for reptiles up to that time, 70's - early 80's.

I would withhold the drinking water for 2-3 days and then offer the water mixed with this powder solution for 2-4 days straight before replacing with fresh water/medication. Never had a problem with any signs of toxicity even in treating a Sistrurus catenatus with double doses by the food animal method.

Forgot the name of it and may not be what you are referring to, but thought I would throw it out here anyway.
 
Cleaning solution ?!!

I don't think I would touch it!
The only potent cleaning solution I have ever used is dilluted bleach on empty cages/water bowls. Are you saying some are using this mixed in drinking water to treat animals?

Kevin
No janitor here
 
i have heard of nolvisan being used in drinking water but dont quite remember what for exactly as for flagyl its supposed to be used daily for 5 days at a dosage of 50mg/kg you may want to ask about the nolvisan on the k.s boa forum or jeff ronnes think tank just to be sure
 
flagy used in the correct suspension, should be used one time week over the course of three weeks some people will do it three dosings over six weeks (one dosing every two weeks). the reason for this type of dosing is to kill of any of the parasites (initial dosing) get any ones that lived or that were eggs and hatched (second dosing) and to make sure you got all of them (third dosing). flagyl over a five day span may kill the parasites present, but will not kille the eggs most lioekly and the incubation for the eggs i bet is more than five days... so essentially your not doing too much good and in essence you would will have parasites after its all said and done, that is if the dosing of flagyl (over five consecutive days)doesnt kill the animal first.
flagyl can be VERY toxic and should be used and dosed as such, overdosing a snake on flagyl is horrible to see.

also their are several different suspentions of flagyl, different manufacturers that cut it with different substances.

also during treatment of flagyl the animals needs to be well hydrated and its wise to make sure they have something in their stomach, on neonates we have used a mixture of pedialite and turkey baby food.

panacure is much "safer" but i would imagine anything in too much a quantity is a bad thing as well.

oral dosing is better than, injection dosing.... sometomes injection site sores can occur and you need to know how to give the animals a shot wether it be SQ or IM... some people say the first third of the body others say the last third.. i figure oral is much less stress on the animals and overall health of it.

alan as far as the novelsan... i would steerclear of that at least til you find out a bit more, this type of "treatment" doesnt sounds right...... letting an animal ingest a chemical used to cleaning and disinfecting???


you need to get you some nutri bac for sure, a must
 
ummm i think your mistaken those flagyl doses is what roger klingenberg dvm recomends in both his book and the reptile parasite identification chart and formulary. i personally have used that dosage plenty of times with no ill effect to the animal and with extremly positive results. it does warn against such usage in colubrids though .as for a suspension i use ora plus oral suspending vehicle made by paddock laboratories
 
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