Ashley Michaud

Just a heads up on this lady. Her email is [email protected]. She's on a couple of chameleon mailing lists as a pretty new cham owner. But she is desperately looking for chameleons to breed. She doesn't know that I lurk on the lists, and sent me an email looking for Jacksons. In her email to me she stated she's breeding F-9 jacksons and looking for new bloodlines (trying to get a breeder-to-breeder discount). I declined to sell them because a person that will lie blatantly (sp?) about their experience to that degree in an opening email is sure to blame you if there are issues down the road.

Just a heads up for you guys that don't follow the lists on a possible bad customer. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Daniel...What the heck gives you the right to call her a liar because she's breeding f9 Jackson's and wants new blood?? Just because she's new at this, doesn't mean she couldn't have bought f9's! How did YOU start in this business? What would you have done if you wanted a new bloodline and someone posted about you! You seem to know a lot about what makes a "potentially bad customer"! Why don't you try giving her a little credit before you start blasting her?? You got a lot of growing up to do, my friend! ....Neil

Well, Neil because she emailed the list that she only has 2 veileds. I have always been very up front when talking with anyone about my experience level and taken as much information from breeders I've worked with. Here is her emails just so you can see the tone and exact wording.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Michaud [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:15 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: jacksons
>
>
> I was referred to you **Deleted**
>
> How much are your jacksons?
> 1 Pair OR 2 pairs
>
> Please give some low prices
> I'm a breeder mixing bloodlines into the 9th generation!
> I'm looking for blues but still want reds and yellows, etc.
>
> I would love if you could do a pair for around $90
>
> Kind Regards, Ashley
>
>

and then the one she sent the list today.

"Chameleon FAQ at http://www.ChameleonJournals.com/FAQ
___

I only have 2 veileds... I kinda made a bad purchase but I had zero
knowledge at the time so I just didn't know any better.

I'm now looking for my next 2 chams in which I intend to breed.
I want the most unique colors I can find in both a male and female.
It's so hard making that final choice :-\

If anyone knows any breeders, please have them contact me or
pass me their info...   [email protected]

-Ashley
"

I agree 100% someone has to start somewhere, but not this way.

Daniel....Sorry, boss, but I see nothing wrong in her emails to you, and she wasn't nasty, either? All she wants is to find some nice breedable chams for prices she can afford?? What's wrong with that? If you didn't want to give her the Jackson's for $90 per pair....why didn't you just send her to Ben Siegel or Fredo of Xtreme Reptiles? They always sell adult Jax for $45 each...it called, not trying to make every penny you can on every customer that comes your way?? I'm sure if you directed her to someone who would sell her the chams for her price...she would probably be eternally grateful to you...it's called "spreading the wealth" and it would have been the right thing to do! ....Neil

I hate to but I have to jump in on this one. I agree that she was not rude in her e-mails but when a person starts out by telling lies like she obviously did, that is a good sign to steer clear of that person. I do not have a problem with someone wanting to get into breeding other species and wanting to get as much information as they can, but to lie about what your have bred or are breeding in thwe hopes of getting a better price that is rediculous.  I can't tell you how many hours I have spent on the phone and in e-mails giving people who desire the information on Chameleons. But when a person just wants a better deal from and will lie about their experience to get it that shows no respect for me, The business, or anyone else that has spent the time and effort to go that extra mile in breeding. ANyone that will lie abotu their experience willlie about many other things to get what they want, and that is not a person I would want to deal with at all. Personally I would have confronted her directly about it, but there is nothing wrong with what Daniel did about this situation. ALso it is not Daniels responsbilty to refer her to someone else to purchase if he feels there might be a problem. I would not want to refer someone and then have them become a pain in the ass for the person I referred them to. It happens but why open yourself up to it if you can help it.

I'm in agreement with Rob & Daniel, as well.  While there is nothing wrong with wanting animals at a good price to start out, you're asking for trouble when you lie about anything, whether it is your experience or intentions, when doing any type of business.  I've not talked to a single breeder or dealer who was not willing to provide me with the information for care and breeding of the animal I'm looking at whether I make the purchase or not.  Most everyone I've dealt with in this hobby is pleasant and willing to share information and I've gotten some good deals just as easily from being honest as if I were deceitful.  

I don't think the post Daniel made was bashing her, just saying be warned because she is not being truthful about her experience with these animals.  Whoever sells this woman chameleons with the belief that she has the experience to properly care for them will potentially be looking at future problems because if the chams don't survive you can bet it will be the breeder's fault and not hers.  If I were selling these animals, it'd be information I would want to know before selling them to her.  It isn't that I wouldn't sell them to her, but I would know ahead of time that I need to go over proper care and setup to be sure they were treated right.  It isn't about making money, it's about the animals going to someone who cares enough provide for them correctly and with enough integrity to admit that they may need more information than what might be typically given to someone who already has experience with them.

The only things we have in this business are our names and our reputations.  It's wise to guard both.

Just my .03 worth. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Guys....I just don't see where she lied in her emails?? Do you mean this line..

..."I'm a breeder mixing bloodlines into the 9th generation!"...?

Even if you only have two adult animals....you can still consider yourself a breeder (maybe not proven)....she bought a pair of f9's and now wants to mix in different bloodlines...maybe I'm totally missing your points, but, I just don't see where she lied...especially blatently? Maybe one of you guys would point it out to me?? She "might" have exaggerated a little with her choice of words, but...if you took what everybody TYPES as being exactly what they mean...man, are you in for a rude awakening....look how many times we have to ask what is meant from one of the folks you KNOW is a breeder....like using the word "do" instead of "don't" (in a rather recent post&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>....unless all you guys are English majors and never make a spelling or grammatical mistake....why can't we just give her the benefit of the doubt until we have PROOF that she lied! You guys are just too hard!
....Neil

Neil,


In her statement </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How much are your jacksons?
> 1 Pair OR 2 pairs
>
> Please give some low prices
> I'm a breeder mixing bloodlines into the 9th generation!
> I'm looking for blues but still want reds and yellows, etc.
>
> I would love if you could do a pair for around $90
>
> Kind Regards, Ashley
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
she is saying that she is breeding Jacksons and into the 9th generation. Not saying she is breeding f-9's she is making it sound like she is breeding them and has gotten as high as 9th generation.  In her other statements she on the forum she said she only has 2 veileds and nothing about any Jacksons. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I only have 2 veileds... I kinda made a bad purchase but I had zero
knowledge at the time so I just didn't know any better.

I'm now looking for my next 2 chams in which I intend to breed.
I want the most unique colors I can find in both a male and female.
It's so hard making that final choice :-\

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That right there proves she is not telling the truth about the 9th generations. If you fully read the post you will see exactly what Dan & I are saying.

I'm a newbie with boa, and have no knowledge about Cham.  I don't like to involve much in arguing.  However, reading this post, I totally agree with Daniel.  He just gave a head up</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just a heads up on this lady.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>  He doesn't deserve to get blasted like Neil did </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How did YOU start in this business? What would you have done if you wanted a new bloodline and someone posted about you! You seem to know a lot about what makes a "potentially bad customer"! Why don't you try giving her a little credit before you start blasting her?? You got a lot of growing up to do, my friend! ....Neil</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>  Beside, he didn't call her a liar, but it was his opinion (assumption you may say) </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I declined to sell them because a person that will lie blatantly (sp?) about their experience to that degree in an opening email is sure to blame you if there are issues down the road.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> and I don't think there's anything wrong with Daniel.  Ashley, on the other hand, was not honest.  It doesn't matter if she did it intentionally or not; or whatever purpose she did it for  It's not right to lie in a business transaction.  
Last month, I put up a female boa for sale with a low price in a local newspaper (since she just gave birth).  One guy responsed, and also asked if I have a male, since he's looking for a male.  He stayed that he had years of experience with breeding boa, that his house had big back yard, and he has rescued saved a lot of boa, and my boa with be well taken care of if they go to him.  I told him that I have a pair that's ready to breed, and their price was not as low as the female I put in the ad.  He was interested in them and want to check them out.  We set a time, and he came over.  The first thing he told me when he looked at the male was, "He has fungus on his tail..." (which was a white spot from his urine...) and asked me to lower the price.  When was the last time that you hear boa with fungus on his tail, especially from some breeder with years of experience, saved lot of snake?  Just want to share my $.02 with my own experience....

Rob....you could be right! It all depends on how you interpret that "f9" line....I do see your point however, about the "2 veils" line, also....
After re-reading her emails, it seems to me that she is "trying" to get a wholesale price from someone, when she knows she's not entitled to it....
I think she just has "delusions of grandure", but I don't think she's deliberately trying to deceive....she seems too young for that (by the "way" she writes)....Obviously, I could be wrong....but, for such a sale, do you really blame her for trying to get a lower price....we all try that, to some degree?? Heck...how many times have I asked YOU to give me a better deal than the GREAT one you've already offered me? Its just business!
Personally, I'd just mark it off to youth....Neil

ok, I'm going to butt in here...

Neil..."marking it off to youth"?  wtf does that mean? She could be 20, she could be 30, she could also be older than you! Age has nothing to do with it...her lack of experience does. She's obviously not a minor...checking the domain that her email is from shows that she's communicating through her work email acct.

now back on topic...lying about your experience = bad idea. Period. It's better to be humble and state you're a learner...after all, we pretty much all are no matter how many years we've been working with reptiles....something new always comes up.

Nicole I couldn't have said it better myself. I read her e-mail 3 times just to make sure what I was reading and to me she came off as a breader nat a novice tring to start.

Thanks for the "heads up" Daniel!