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Age Disclosure?

M

michael dougherty

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I am a newbie to this site and I really dig it - I can see how much great information can be disseminated amongst like minded individuals whose goal is better, healthier snakes and further knowledge of said animals - BUT I can also see how much harm this site can do; a quick look through the BMI will alert you to all kinds of false alarms about the misdoing of this person or that person, and then countless inquiries whereby (hopefully - and thats a big maybe) the truth will be revealed. I am sure countless individuals businesses have been hurt - if only for a short while - by hotheads who without thinking or caring of the consequences rip off a damaging BOI email because a rack is two weeks late or they feel someone was rude to them. I know this next statement will make me quickly unpopular with the more young subscribers, but I do notice an age factor - a 13 year old is more quick to damn someone than a 40 year old - thats just the way it is. Of course not all teenagers are like this, but for the most part, many are quick to seek internet "justice" when slighted and we often have no idea where the true heart of the matter lies. see lisalovesanimals for instance. I think it would be a good idea if the administrators of this website saw fit to post the age - just as they do the name and location - of the member. Its not discriminatory as much as it is enlightening to where the person may or may not be coming from.

Michael Dougherty
 
hhwoo said:
The problem with that is people could simply falsify their age.
Click to expand...

I agree. This is a voluntary choice right now. You can have your age displayed or not. If it is made mandatory it will just leave everyone open to lying about it. As it stands right now they just have the option not to put it up. The honour system goes a long way here but unfortunately a handfull of people come here with things to hide. A lot of them are spotted and identified if anything major is happening. We've got a good team of investigators on the BOI. :)
 
As has already been pointed out in this thread, there is a problem with verification. How would you propose that anyone's age be verified for accuracy? As anyone who has been here for more then 20 minutes has probably figured out, truth and honesty are not universally ingrained genetic compulsions within many people.
 
the are some ways..

you could require name/age verification.

1) A drivers liscense number - under 17 wouldnt have one

2) A credit card number - under 18 Usually dont have one.

3) do a cedit check on them - A 13 year old wont show too much on thier report (escpecially ownership of a house or car or such)

just a few ideas to help you out webslave. But the investigators on here usually have the ability to find the info out on anyone anyway so this shouldnt be necessary. But once their age has been found out maybe you should put a under age ICON next to thier user I.D. to warn people.

Nick Bonn
 
The problem with name and/or age verification (even if you could somehow implement it) is that it's just a huge pain in the butt and would serve no real purpose. The amounts of posts here that are just a nuissance posted by teenagers are very minimal. What you'd need is a maturity verification system and I've never seen one before.

There are many teens (and under) that are valuable to forums such as this. They come here to learn, they come to pose valid questions and concerns, and are what will keep forums going. I wish we had a few more.

I think the mods and users of FC do a perfectly fine job of keeping things to where we know which users just like to stir up trouble because of immature reactions.
 
nicolai said:
you could require name/age verification.

1) A drivers liscense number - under 17 wouldnt have one

2) A credit card number - under 18 Usually dont have one.

3) do a cedit check on them - A 13 year old wont show too much on thier report (escpecially ownership of a house or car or such)

just a few ideas to help you out webslave. But the investigators on here usually have the ability to find the info out on anyone anyway so this shouldnt be necessary. But once their age has been found out maybe you should put a under age ICON next to thier user I.D. to warn people.

Nick Bonn
Click to expand...

1) You can get a DL at 16 here.
2) I got my kids some of those "prepay" visa cards years ago, so it would be fairly easy to do that and have a number.
3) Are you kidding? First it costs money, and who is going to pay for a credit report, to join a message board? Then there are privacy issues, etc.

I don't personally think it is that big of a deal. I will try to verify that they are at least 18, if I'm selling to someone, but age is not really that big of a factor when it comes to FC. The posters that the OP is talking about usually give themselves up by the content of their message. Anotherwords, the example he (OP) uses, the woman starting the Ben thread. That would seem to be from an adolescent with no patience and very poor ethics, yet in her post she mentions having a son. So it was written by a 13 y.o. or a 30 y.o. going on 13, does it really matter which one?

In the long run these people give themselves away, or as mentioned previously there are some astute "investigaters" on this site.
 
It is very true - the BOI really does seem to get to the bottom of things, and along the way it can be darn funny and entertaining. I suppose there really is no way to age verify - I was just thinking out loud as a newbie with one of my more obvious observations about the site.

But I do think my original statement that some people can get burned is true. Ben Siegal has been around long enough for plenty of people to say "huh?? something is off here - lets dig deeper". But if that was Ben Baggadonuts, that might not have happened. I've seen threads where someone simply states "Ben Baggadonuts ripped me off and treated me like dirt." with very little investigation to follow. Now, someone comes along a month later thinking to buy something off of Ben Baggadounuts and they do a BOI search - thats all it takes, deal vanished.

Of course nothing is perfect and this site does tremendous more good than the occasional misrepresentation of the little guys. But its never a bad idea to kick stuff like this around a bit.

Happy Holidays all!

MD
 
I didnt say i agree with age verification..

I posted in response to webslaves question on how he could verify someones age so i figured i could give him a few ideas. I know a 13 year old that has a breeding collection of around 120-130 snakes and some of them are high end .( albino balls, pastels, pieds, etc). and knows more then most about breeding,incubating,treating and husbandry . He has read everything out there on the care of snakes and it would be hard to find something he doesnt know.So i agree age isnt always a good indicator to ones maturity or knowledge of reptiles.

But I do think there should be a way of stopping "trouble Makers" from jumping on here and trying to ruin good peoples reputations.

Nick Bonn
 
Nicholas, I never expected everyone (or anyone for that matter) to agree with my age verification thought - like I said, just thinking out loud. To state cases of smart, together tennagers is to state the obvious - we all know quite a few - just as stating cases of adults who are not smart is also to state the obvious.

I know there are smart kids out there - and if this website cannot be for everyone, then that would a real missed opportunity.

Just thinking out loud...there is a problem with slamming good people on this board and its never a bad idea to kick around ways to help sort out potential reasons why someone is possibly venting for the wrong reasons.

MD
 
nicolai said:
you could require name/age verification.

1) A drivers liscense number - under 17 wouldnt have one

2) A credit card number - under 18 Usually dont have one.

3) do a cedit check on them - A 13 year old wont show too much on thier report (escpecially ownership of a house or car or such)
Click to expand...
Webslave is a good guy and all but there's no way I am going to send him my driver's license number, my credit card number or enough info to run a credit check (social security number, etc). Besides, a kid can root around through mommy's purse and grab enough info in about 2 seconds to fake most if not all of that info and pretend to be her.
 
Yeah, the Webslave is a "good guy and all" but there is just no way I am going to take MY time to verify this sort of information for free. I have pretty much resolved myself that the only way to verify users is to have some sort of minimal paid membership in place. It won't be perfect, of course, but if someone has to fork over $10 to be able to post on the BOI and a few other places, then this will likely weed out quite a bit of the fake IDs and bogus "members" that register here just to cause trouble in one form or another.

I just have to think about the best way to implement something like this.

But, of course, I don't expect it will please everyone, no matter what I do.
 
WebSlave said:
Yeah, the Webslave is a "good guy and all" but there is just no way I am going to take MY time to verify this sort of information for free. I have pretty much resolved myself that the only way to verify users is to have some sort of minimal paid membership in place. It won't be perfect, of course, but if someone has to fork over $10 to be able to post on the BOI and a few other places, then this will likely weed out quite a bit of the fake IDs and bogus "members" that register here just to cause trouble in one form or another.

I just have to think about the best way to implement something like this.

But, of course, I don't expect it will please everyone, no matter what I do.
Click to expand...
Don't forget these 2 things-

Hobbyists that want to use it for the one transaction they do (a beardie for the kids for x-mas, etc) won't be likely to fork $10 over and will lose out on the use of the service.

Many of the people causing problems and flaming each other own businesses and profit greatly off herps so $10 to them would be no problem.
 
I think that money is a wonderful modifier of behavior.


$25 membership to post on the BOI; controversial, yes: but it would deliver a huge financial boost to the site and screen out some of those who are here just to troll.
Fines for warning points. Banned users would pay a premium joining fee ($250) if they should be permitted ever to return.

This site is way different from other large reptile sites. There is much more freedom and less regimentation, and that is a quality here that we all value.

Yet boundaries have to be drawn and enforced somewhere; they are exceedingly reasonable boundaries here and I am not suggesting otherwise- my post has more to do with consequences than where to draw the line.

If you use raw force transgressors will cry foul, if you appeal to their ethics and standards they will not respond if their standards are lower than acceptable, but hits to the wallet get fast results and shape future behavior as well.
 
The fee may keep away some of the trolls but is it worth it if you loose many of the members that don't want to pay just to ask about a small transaction (less than $25 lost if the person burns them)? I run a forum as well, a different subject matter completely, and I understand it is sucky to deal with trolls but IMO it's better to deal with a few trolls rather than lose potential members. That's just my humble opinion.....
 
Well for one I wouldn't mind paying a small $10 fee for using this site's most helpful tool, the BOI.

As for age verification, I think the honesty policy actually is more effective than most think. Plus I think if we stretch Webslave any thinner he will come apart at the seams :)

I also think that as an "average" Fauna member, when I see a very negative looking post, my first instinct as a curious human is to READ the whole thread. Most of the time a hysterical topic title usually means the topic starter is either over reacting, jumping the gun, or just a plain idiot making waves.

I think it's safe to say if a person in the market to purchase, knows enough to come here and look up the person to search the BOI then even with 10 hysterical BS threads about them, once the thread is read, no harm done.

ESPECIALLY IF THE PERSON BEING "LIED" ABOUT KEEPS THEIR COOL AND REMAINS MATURE AND PROFESSIONAL!!!

Nothing scares me away from a seller than when they start typing like a 10 year old and personally insulting the other person, even if the other person is 100% in the wrong.

I also think if a person in the market to purchase happens to see a name they have heard about mentioned in a negative way, human nature will prevail, and they will read the thread, therefore seeing that the thread is bogus.

If anything the person being wronged in a thread has a chance to get their name out there.
 
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