Requiring Documentation for Posts

I am certainly not going to jump on the poll frontier here...but it seems as though there is quite a lot of " he said, she said..." on the BOI, sometimes with little or no credible backing.

Maybe to avoid confusion, and possibly bashing someone for no just cause, it would be a good idea to have documents in order to post, instead of just saying "M. so and so ripped me off". ???

greg

From the "RULES of the BOI"

"Proof is optional, but recommended if you would like to remove any doubts about the truth of what you are posting. But this is purely up to you, just as the believability of what you post is purely up to the reader of your words."

I'm sure Rich had a good reason for the rule when he made this forum....

I am sure the webmaster has very good reasons

for his rules regarding posts, but lately their have been threads about people that seem to be more of a personal attack because of a failed deal then an actual theft of service or the advancement of monies with no goods received , etc.

Its not enough to say "stay away from this person" unless their has been an actual "loss , either financial or inventory wise" . I realize that their are allot of scammers out their, and granted an advisory "heads up" is always welcomed, but sometimes these threads could also be based on a vendetta, or an attempt to hurt someones business, etc. We just have to be carefull, and make sure that the information provided by the writer is warranted on the BOI. Just my opinion.

knobtail

Exactly my point...some of the mud being slung seems to be a little out of bounds ( and yes, I am guilty of it myself ) maybe requiring some proof of allegations might be a good idea?

greg

???

We being adults here of sound mind and body [well some of us] have the ability to totally disregard these posts and take them for what they are at face value. It's kind of like a cop looking at a crack fiend complaining someone took his crack. Rich and the moderators are doing the right thing here in letting these people hang their own rope.

I am sure once they read this post it might get moved to the discussion board

Well, with my thread on LLL as an example, the only documentation I had was the receipt proving I bought from them. What they told me face to face was just that, what they told me. No way to document that. With so many deals done face to face, it's hard to have any documents beyond receipts. Internet deals make it easier b/c of the email trail. Just my opinion!

One thing that needs to be considered is the reason why the BOI was created in the first place. I did this because I came to the conclusion that peer pressure was the only force likely to work to get someone not otherwise inclined, to resolve a dispute. With this in mind, the OPINIONS of a large group of people would be invaluable in possibly resolving an issue that could be be resolved otherwise. And let's face it, sometimes the facts are just not enough to show the whole picture. Sometimes there ARE no facts that can be proven, especially in the case of phone conversations or other means of contact.

And yes, there is going to be a lot of gray area involved. Which is why I called it the Board of Inquiry rather than anything else than might imply concrete answers and judgements. Some people are very good at lying. Others are very poor at presenting the truth. Who is to decide what the real story is? Well, YOU are, as the reader. And you may be wrong. But that is up to you, and solely your responsibility.

Certainly facts that can be proven with documentation will strengthen a person's case, but it is not a requirement, nor will it ever be. And as such, no one should ever be belittled because they have not provided any proof. But they can certainly be discounted, if you feel that is the best course for you.

Proof may not alway be available. Sometimes the accused provide the proof with their comments (remember little petey and adam?).

I've noticed as well

It is understandable that a transaction that occurs in person will have limited tangible "evidence".

I have noticed that (with alarming frequency) evidence isn't asked for and limited questions (if any at all) are asked before people take sides.

Tempers seem to fly easily and the "art" of communication seems to degrade to bashing.

This does nothing to help the readers make an informed decision on who to and who not to do business with, especially if you have to wade through pages and pages of extranious bashing for which no evidence or proof is provided.

I agree with the other John (John Apple).
Most of us here are adults (term used lightly, due to some of the immature posts) and it may take a few or many pages, but in the end I think that the average person can get a pretty good "feel" for whether the complaint was a valid one, which side was most credible, and this is where threads can sometimes get really long, but for some reason many times the "truth" somehow eventually shows up.

Some of these threads go on so long that the person that was alleged to have been the bad guy, proves it, because by continuing to post they reveal their true colors, or at least show enough lying and or bad moral/ethical traits that you put a mental asterisk to the person's name for the future. Conversly, it will usually come out if the "victim" of an alleged bad guy, is just full of crap, or has a personal vendetta, or sometimes maybe just unrealistic expectations. There have been "bad guys" where the thread is very short, because they looked at the original post, and maybe objectively listened to one or two other posters opinions, and said to themselves "I hadn't realized" or "I made a mistake", which can happen to anybody, but they turn into (or actually remain) a good guy, because they quickly rectify whatever the problem was, and the thread quickly goes into oblivion.

Some posts the "bad guy" and the "good guy" both seem to have good points and it is a draw or a wash, and I think we are all fair enough that we realize such is the case, and chalk it up to a learning experience and nobody is left the "bad guy".

And then there are threads that the two "antagonists" dissapear after 4 pages and it just turns into a freaking soap opera, some of it is as WS says of an entertainment value, pull up the chair and some popcorn and read or even participate, little bit of flaming and head bobbing and smilie attacks goes on while some try to intermediate, and eventually it to fades away, and even though there may have been some pulled scales or tail detachment, I think everybody takes it for what it was, and there is no permanent damage to anybody.

So while it would be great if you had a copy of every e-mail, a receipt for sending and receiving, photo documentation, the eyewitness account of a hugely respected herp icon, notarized of course, etc., I think in the long run they all get worked out to at least a point where you can form a decent opinion of everything.

Sorry I get to long winded, sometimes.
Just my 2 cents.

There is a lot we can still do

Documentation is great and all that, but do we allways write a receipt or even ask for one [I do and am sometimes known as an a$$ for that], and in the case of big dollar items do we even ask for the proper documentation..notorised at that, or do people pay with Postal or convenience store Money Orders, granted the buyer still gets his money . [one is better we all know that] Unless I am buying feeder crix or feeder anoles a receipt is required signed by the buyer and seller, yeah I know it sounds rather anal but if we all took some measures ...imagine how small the BOI would be...No offence meant Rich.

Well, in a sense, I agree with all of you...it would be nice if we could solve everything peacefully, but that isn't the way of the world. It seems to me that receipts and documentation are what this hobby needs more and more of...maybe more people will start requiring it?

In the art world, paper trails are extensive and necessary...maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for the herpers to emulate the other animal husbandry groups ? I have noticed a few threads out there about papering herps...

again, just my 2c...

greg