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Questions on possible gravid female Veild

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gemdreamer

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i have a male and female Veild Chameleon and they are approximatly 6-8 months old.

around christmas i thought they had mated, because the female had scratches on her cone and back, but i have been watching her and i havent noticed much difference except that when he comes around her she gapes and moves back and forth.

I put a large container in the bottom of the cage for her to lay in, i guess my question is how long should it be before she actully lays her eggs. i mean it looks as if she is getting larger in the belly area. I have also noticed this week she is letting him get next to her again.

one other question is what is the best incubation to put cham eggs into?
 
From what I heard it sounds like you keep the two together in the same cage (bad idea unless you want them to breed). If she is gravid she is going to be laying up to 30 eggs and she lays them all in one sitting. It takes a little while for 30 eggs to develop so it could be a couple of weeks. When she does lay them the container you filled up will be messy and some dirt (or whatever your using) will be around your cage. To incubate eggs you can either make a DIY incubator or one you can buy for a bit more money and more reliable.


CK
 
Thanks for the info, I do have them in a very large screen cage which give them plenty of room.

To answer your question yes I'd like them to breed, I have a small reptile business and I am tired of getting poor quality when buying from importers and even from individuals.

just one questions thou, which is the best type of incuabator a DIY or a store bought, im purchasing one for my Leopard Geckos a Hovabator Thermal Air, would this be appropriate.

Do you know of any good online information portals besides here at Faunaclassifieds?
 
A few things. If you are keeping them together the cages should be no less than 6' x 6' x 6'. Veileds are very aggressive chameleons and males will often stress females through constant breeding attempts and just general territorial behavior that can eventually kill your female.

Breeding veileds that young is not a good idea. These animals produce a large amount of eggs in captivity and breeding animals young shortens their life span and can cause some serious health issues. Veiled females should be at the very least 12 months of age before breeding is attempted.

If she is indeed gravid she will begin to show a marked weight gain in a few weeks. Alot of people utilize the container in the cage method for laying but I have always utilized a 32 gallon trash can with a couple of feet of dirt in it. I have never had an animal with any egg binding issues.

There are tons of great articles at www.chameleonnews.com, including a few on incubation, nesting sites and caring for hatchlings. Check it out and read as much as you can. Good luck.
 
Thank You for you input, I will most definatly consider moving them to seperate cages if i notice anything out of the sort, these are kept in my house so i will have constant vewing.

I have been looking into obtaining another large cage anyhow just incase my current housing does not work out.

I have read quite abit about different ages in breeding, and I have taken into consideration everyons suggestion and I do appriceiate yours also.

Does anyone know anything about breeding Flapneck Chameleons, I have a pair which I house seperatly, because the female seem like she was picking on the male. I have been told they are hard to keep, but I have found the care is just like my veilds, they are also very healthy and friendly especially the male he is always wanting out and on me.
 
I would put your veileds in seperate chams because the male might mate with her too much and stress her taking months off her life. Store bought incubators are they way to go! That sounds like a good one as long as you have enough space. I would think it is like most chams. You would introduce the male and take him out after 3 days and keep doing that until your VERY sure they have mated. You will have to be there the whole time to watch if the female is recepetive cause she could get aggressive against the male. I agree with your female being a little young to breed, I would have done it at 10 months.


CK
 
its really a bad idea to breed vields so young, I mean just becuse they can doesnt mean you should. Make sure you have more then one nice spot for you girl to lay her eggs. good luck! I hope if she does they the eggs they are all heathy and hatch for you. meanwhile you should go buy a book, some very good ones out now. keep us updated
 
well i have two books but they are older and I really like the information i receive here, its from people who are experiencing these situations right now lol not three years ago.

but yes I will be moving her into another cage, I have decided today that is the best thing for her.

what would you prefer as a laying box for the female, right now i have a bin in there that is mixed sand and peat moss.
 
just make sure it is moist. you dont want the eggs to dry out before you find them. also in the wild they will lay eggs in the roots of the trees. that would make them pretty hard for you to get out. so this is what I did the one time I had chemlon eggs, not vields. I got a plastic planter filled it with soil , stuck a big stick in it and wraped it with a some plastic vines I had. The point of all that is so that the chamelon can climb right down into the nestig box , it will be alot less stress full for you lizard if it has a lot of cover and if your not in the same room. just keep an eye on her. even though alot of people on here breed and keep veilds, get the most up to date book thats out. it will give you specifics that you will need for incubation and takeing care of the hatchlings.
 
What some people have done is actually when they think their cham is going to lay they put the cham in a plastic garbage container with a hardware mesh lid. You put a heat lamp on it. Put branches in it put not too much because she will climb onto the lid and get burned. You put some moist substrate and there you go, she will lay and you can just take her out and the eggs will be in the substrate. If I made any mistakes in my typing I am in a hurry.


CK
 
Shari, you have much to anticipate ......

but there is room for some clarification. One note said that you can expect "up to 30 eggs", while Jason more correctly pointed out that veiled's lay "lots of eggs". I wish Jason had put a number on it, but am laughing, for I'm sure he knows what you are likely in for as well. In the hopes that all goes well now, if she is gravid, or whenever in the future you do get eggs, 30 eggs for a veiled would be considered a very small clutch. 50-60 is probably more the norm. My personal best is 98, and I'm sure that others have topped that, although anything over 80 is uncommon. Pardalis are more in the 20-30 range. I'd have to concur with all of the other advice you have been given, although I think you do not need a special incubator. Anyplace where you can get a fairly constant temp of 75-78 should do well. The ability to manipulate temps, and better control the diapause, might speed things up for you, but is not vital to the eventual hatching of the eggs, only the length of time involved. Good luck with all.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC
 
Incubating is the easy part, feeding and houseing that many babies now your in for a challange, you might want to start trying your hand at breeding fruit flys, or crickets. vields hatch out pretty tiny
 
wow! 98 eggs is awesome! How many hatched? Well this is a young female that might JUST make it through the breeding age so you could expect a smaller clutch. I bet you could hatch the eggs at a temp 70 but you would have to wait a couple more weeks or a month or more. Incubating will be the easiest part for sure, all you have to do is put the eggs in and leave them there till they hatch. If I was breeding chams I would definatley start breeding fruit flies or crickets, fairly easy once you have done for a week. You would need a steady supply of pin head crickets.


CK
 
Yes, 98 is a big number ....

But it is also up in the "extreme" range. Most reptile breeders don't care for extreme production, as there is usually an inverse proportion to viability. I don't recall that any of the 98 hatched. Our record for Pardalis , which is 48, had a similar outcome ... zilch. I would agree to expect less than average in a clutch from a young female, and the early breeding age can also lead to lower fertility/viability rates as well. Generally speaking, lower incubation temperatures do lead to longer incubation periods. I would recommend that anyone expecting a quantity of hatchling chameleons bone up on cricket breeding techniques. Not hard, easy to manage and gutload, etc. Just takes some planning and lead time. You can hatch cricket eggs in 9-11 days (at 85-92 degrees F), and have them appropriately sized for juvenile chameleon consumption 10-15 days after that. Have fun.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company. LLC
 
I would rather get a moderatley sized amount of eggs and have most of them hatch then getting 98 eggs and having 5 hatch..... I have seen some small veiled chameleons and most likely would probably be able to take a small cricket or pin heads. Mealies are a good way to fatten baby chams up. I do this with my geckos, when they hatch the first meal they eat is a couple mealies just to get some weight on them.


CK
 
Chamco said:
but there is room for some clarification. One note said that you can expect "up to 30 eggs", while Jason more correctly pointed out that veiled's lay "lots of eggs". I wish Jason had put a number on it, but am laughing, for I'm sure he knows what you are likely in for as well. In the hopes that all goes well now, if she is gravid, or whenever in the future you do get eggs, 30 eggs for a veiled would be considered a very small clutch. 50-60 is probably more the norm. My personal best is 98, and I'm sure that others have topped that, although anything over 80 is uncommon. Pardalis are more in the 20-30 range. I'd have to concur with all of the other advice you have been given, although I think you do not need a special incubator. Anyplace where you can get a fairly constant temp of 75-78 should do well. The ability to manipulate temps, and better control the diapause, might speed things up for you, but is not vital to the eventual hatching of the eggs, only the length of time involved. Good luck with all.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC
Click to expand...

I usually won't put a number on things like this due to the fact that a lot of beginners see these big numbers and start seeing the "big dollars" instead of thinking about the points you made. Such as housing and feeding 75-100 baby chams. I never personally broke 98, I think my max was 79 for a calyptratus.
 
as far as the incubator gose go to a local farm suply store and ask for a ckicken incubator (hova-bator is its name make sure you DO NOT get the terbo fan) it normaly costs about $40
 
I orignally started this thread. Anyhow to make a long story short, the last time that they bred was Feb 15th. They have been in seperate cages since and I have supplied a very large laying tub with a mixture of sand and soil, so she can lay.

I know I first thought they were 6-8 months of age, but I look at the receipts for them and they are approx 8-9 months old, I know that they are too young and should not have been allowed to breed, but it is done now. I am trying to make sure she will not become egg bound and die. Sshe is a good eater she eats crickets and greens, I have provided fruits but I have not seen if she is eating them or not. Crickets are dusted and gut loaded.

My concerns are is that she is awfuly fat, as I have provided pictures of both if I can get them to post correctly. What are some signs of her becoming egg bound? Should I wait out the entire 30 days from the last time they bred, before I become to concerned? Also one other thing is as you can see her belly is really lumpy looking, could that be the eggs or is that just normal for gravid females?

any help would be great.
 
Shari,

I didn't see pictures, but the lumps are most likely eggs. The lumps will show even close to her spine even. Anyhow, it sounds like she is close. The one thing that all of our veiled "ready-to-lay" females did was stop eating one or 2 days before they laid the eggs. Up until that time, they need to get their calcium supplement on the insects, which you say you did.

If she paces and paces without digging, that may be a sign that she is having trouble. The best thing to have on hand for gravid females is liquid calcium (many forms out there - check with a vet). This can be given orally with an eyedropper and it will help with contractions.

If she is down in the bucket and paces without digging and laying - then you need to get her to a qualified vet.

If she does dig and start to lay - give her some privacy. Once she is done, she should come out and bury the hole. And above all - wait until she has stopped covering the eggs before removing her from the bucket. Some of our females just had to get every grain of sand just so!

Afterward, we always give the girls a warm shower, offer food and let them rest. If everything is okay - they will pop back to normal quite quickly - but if she is lethargic and weak - get her to the vet.

Good luck....
Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.
 
after the eggs are visable, how long does it usually take for her to lay? It has been 33 days since the last time she bred, and the eggs look like she swallowed a bag of jelly beans.

As I said before I just dont want to wait too long and then find she is egg bound. She started to dig on Friday, but I think my son interrupted her and she didnt dig all day yesterday, so last night i put her back into her cage which also has a laying bin.

I found her twice in the bottom of her cage, so I thought I better put her back into the laying tub.

Thanks Shari
 
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