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I'm having a HORRIBLE day...need more advice...

A

ajc

Guest
I sent an animal out yesterday at 6<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 pm via FedEx Priority (Guaranteed by noon) to a gentleman in NC.  

FedEx delivered it late...sometime late this afternoon, and the animal apparently overheated in the truck and died.  

Now, FedEx is saying that their claims office will not likely honor a claim on a live animal, but they will refund shipping.

I checked online today at 4:30, and it was still 90 degrees in NC.  

But, my problem is that the buyer never made any mention of the temperatures being in the 90's.

I am a hobbyist, not a business, and have never once guaranteed live arrival, but of course, I would never purposely send an animal to it's death.

If they do not honor the claim, should I cover the cost of the animal, even though it was the fault of the carrier?

I would like to make it up to him with another animal or something, but I don't feel that I'm solely responsible.

Thanks for any input.
 
I don't know where that little face came from, but anyway, that was supposed to be 6 pm..actually a little before that.
 
even though we are just hobbyist...
it is our Responsibility to know what the whether is like.

We might just be "hobbyist"  but you still sold a snake and he bought it.  Which means he is a customer.  A customer who paid money to have live animals.  He did not pay for dead animals.

Also fed ex can't be expected to reimburse you...except for the shipping.
I use Airborne express and I know they will NOT reimburse me if an animal dies.  All I can get is the shipping charge reversed if the delivery was late.  Whenever I deliver....I know there is a chance I will need to refund the animal or replace it.

Breeder / Dealer / Hobbyist - we all have a responsibility to our customers.

If an animal arrives dead at my door....I expect a full refund including shipping OR a replacement animal.  I paid for a live animal...do not penalize me because YOUR animal died.


That is the beliefs / thoughts that I go by over here.

I remember LLL reptiles making me pay shipping again on an animal that died 1 day later.  At the time I thought it was okay.  But now I think differently.  It was not my fault their animal died.  I should not have paid shipping all over again.


just my 0.02
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ritchie Luna @ Sep. 04 2002,17:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">even though we are just hobbyist...
it is our Responsibility to know what the whether is like.

We might just be "hobbyist"  but you still sold a snake and he bought it.  Which means he is a customer.  A customer who paid money to have live animals.  He did not pay for dead animals.

Also fed ex can't be expected to reimburse you...except for the shipping.
I use Airborne express and I know they will NOT reimburse me if an animal dies.  All I can get is the shipping charge reversed if the delivery was late.  Whenever I deliver....I know there is a chance I will need to refund the animal or replace it.

Breeder / Dealer / Hobbyist - we all have a responsibility to our customers.

If an animal arrives dead at my door....I expect a full refund including shipping OR a replacement animal.  I paid for a live animal...do not penalize me because YOUR animal died.


That is the beliefs / thoughts that I go by over here.

I remember LLL reptiles making me pay shipping again on an animal that died 1 day later.  At the time I thought it was okay.  But now I think differently.  It was not my fault their animal died.  I should not have paid shipping all over again.


just my 0.02</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I understand that, but nobody guarantees live arrival in 90+ degree weather, let alone when the FedEx driver doesn't get it there when they are supposed to.

Also, I don't think that it's necessarily my job to know what his weather is like.

But, it's neither one of our faults, so I am starting to think that maybe I should be responsible to refund half of the purchase price.
 
I am also a hobbyist, and ship out animals infrequently. The times that I have shipped, I made sure of what the weather was in my area and where I am sending them. If the weather in either place dictates, a heat pack or a cold pack is used.
 Recently I made a trade with a gentleman from Arizona. I was able to ship my end out before the weather got too hot there, but since then it has been over 100 degrees every day where he is shipping from. I have been in contact with the other person involved, and I don't expect my animals to be shipped until the heat dissapates (hopefully by next week, if you can trust the forecasts&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. As the shipper, you are responsible for checking the weather in the destination location. You can get weather forecasts via the internet for virtually anywhere. You owe the customer a full refund or another animal, including shipping. To quote Rich "These are only my opinions".
 
I agree with Ritchie on his assessment.  Despite the fact that the carrier (Fed-Ex) may have been to blame, it is still your responsibility, even as a hobbyist, to replace the animal.  Just a couple of quick questions for you.   Did you put in a plan B just in case there was a delay ?  What I mean is did you first look up the weather highs/lows for the destination, then pack the shipment accordingly.  When I see temps may be a little warm/cold when shipping, I'll add either a gel pack/heat pack just in case.  Also look at it this way.  If you were new to the hobby, and this was your first snake you had ordered online, how would you feel if you received expired animals and then had the breeder/seller state they did not guarantee live arrival so you were out of luck.  Just put yourself in your customers shoes, and that should answer your question for you..

Sorry to hear about the bad day,

Stephen Emerick
Napa Valley Snakes
 
OK,
   I do think this is soley on you, to either refund everything including shipping, it lies with you to get the money from FEDEX and good luck with that tell me how that goes.  If you can replace the animal then do it, but he is not responsible for shipping.
    Nobody likes it when their animal dies during the hours it is in the hands of a shipper, although you say you are only a "hobbyist" you pretty much became a business when you accepted money for a product.
    Also, it does not matter if you have a guarantee you provide one once you accept payment for a product.  You should always have a guarantee of your own in writing that you have informed the buyer of head of time. He paid for something in the understanding that it would at least arrive alive and on time.
    In a quick summary replace the animal at your own shipping expense or refund ALL the money.


Good Luck! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
I agree with Brian on this one. How hard is it as a seller to go to cnn.com, type weather and type the destination zc? This provides you with a five day forecast. I have yet have to see it fail, give or take a couple of degrees F. We should care about the fate of the animals we ship and it's only a click of the mouse away.

Best regards,

Daniel
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I don't think that it's necessarily my job to know what his weather is like.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Since its your animal until it arrives at the customers home, its your responsibility to make plans on all aspects of its shipping, health and care until it gets to its destination.

In short, you are responsible since you shipped it.  If the temps are to hot or to cold than its your responsibility to not ship as a responsible dealer.  You should have checked before you shipped.  Not the customer, but it would have been nice to know from him.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But, it's neither one of our faults, so I am starting to think that maybe I should be responsible to refund half of the purchase price.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Nope, its 100% your fault as the shipper to know and care enough about the animal you are selling to check.  The refund should be 100% as well.  The buyer NEVER received his order, so why should he be responsible because you never cared enough to check the temps prior to shipping?

Sorry but your wrong on this one even though FedEx was delayed.
 
Right on...I hear what you guys are saying, and agree with 99% of it.  

BUT...the only reserve that I have is that even the buyer (customer) said that this is likely due to the package being delivered in the hottest part of the day, and not in the morning.   I did purposely ship the animal after it cooled down here in KC, and it was supposed to be delivered "the next business morning" meaning that it should never be on a truck or in that box between the hours of noon and 6PM, when the weather is hot like that.  

I shipped several animals yesterday, the exact same way...some to people where it's just as hot, and all of them arrived perfectly healthy, but that was BEFORE noon.

Shipping cost has already been refunded to me, so shipping a replacement at my cost is not a problem.  It's just that the delay in shipping, which the buyer and I agree to be the culprit, was not my fault.

I guess it's just the principle that I was trying to figure out...it's one of those things, that you can't just ask the opinion of the guy sitting at the desk next to you.  

I will take care of this in one way or another, so that the customer is taken care of.  This has been the biggest nightmare of a day, and I'm glad I had somewhere to go for advice.  Again, thank you all for your replies.
 
True no one guarantees live arrival in 90+ wheather   Well almost no one.....except me and a few others..  

But he paid for a live animals and he deserves a live animal.
I think that if you could not guarantee live..you should not have delivered.

Last week on Aug 28 I shipped 3 animals for arrival on Aug 29.
they did not get there until aug 30 after 5pm  and his temps were upper 90's  and the States it passed through were in the upper 90's

I firmly belive a snake will survive ALMOST anything if packed for the occasion.

Aslo the package not being shipped on time is not your fault.
But we as sellers are ultimately respnsible in satisfying our customers.

Good luck.

Inlcude some colling gel stuff in your shipments
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will take care of this in one way or another, so that the customer is taken care of.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

NOW YOU'VE GOT IT !!!!!!


CONGRATS !!!
 
Anthony
As everybody said the shipper is responsible
packing
shipping
weather conditions[not whether Ritchie <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> ]
If an animal arrives dead [god forbid] it is my responsibility to take care of the customer as I see you are doing
good luck and sorry for yours and the animals mis-fortune <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
Anthony, I know the package was delivered late and it was hot but have you actually seen proof that the animal is dead? There are some people out there that will not hesitate to take advantage of a good situation where you would not doubt the animal died. I think you should require the customer take pictures of the snake strectched out perfectly straight both right side up and upside down. We all know how easy it is to keep a snake in that position LOL. It's a good way to indicate the snake is truly dead and this customer's not trying to get a freebee. It happens. If it's truly dead I'd replace it.
 
I think that you must take care of this one Anthony, and then take a good look at your policy for the future.

-I'd put it on the customer if they want to ship via overnight in hot weather, but I'd recommend they wait until a cooler day next time.

Otherwise it's on you...
 
Maybe I missed it but this is a snake were talking about right? What kind of dollor value are we talking about? I personally will not ship Fed ex or airborne anymore, I have never lost an animale I shipped through them, but never shipped anything valued at more then $500 through them when I did. Airborne would never let you ship snakes, & if you did you had to lie & say they were turtles. The last time I did ship through them I had to sign a statement saying that even if they did lose or damage the shipment in anyway that I could not hold them responsable. It seems if they found out you were shipping snakes they wouldn't even refund the shipping cost. All I'm saying is I would rather pay alittle more, & ship through the airlines leaglly then take the chance with fed ex or airborne express. You might want to try that next time rather then taking another chance like this one. I've had pepole that wanted me to ship airborne fed ex or even ups, but all I can tell them is it's either Delta, Noth West or nothing. There are always risks when ever you ship an animale nomatter who you use.
Jason Reese.
 
Sorry Anthony, but I am going to have to agree with everyone else. It is very simple to check the temp online for any area. If it is to hot that day don't ship. Carriers make mistakes and you should never assume that a package will arrive before noon. Who is to say that the animal didn't die before noon anyway? You owe your customer a 100% refund including shipping or a replacement animal shipped at your expense. This is a hard lesson, but now I am sure you will check temps before shipping and not count on a package arriving on time. I would be furious personally if you offered to refund anything but 100% of my money if it was me and I would do the same for anyone else. The animals have to be the number one priority and their safety the number one issue. Do the right thing.
 
Even though Fed Ex got it there late, it is still your fault because Fed Ex clearly states that they do not accept live animals.  Did you ship in an unmarked box?  As far as I know, Delta Dash is the only company that will guarantee animals alive.  The temp factor was on you.  I always go to yahoo.com to check the weather.  Did you include an ice pack?  Also, most people do guarantee live arrival even if it's over 90.  I do.  And, if you didn't say that you would not guarantee live arrival if the temps got too high, then you still have to replace it.  
The bottom line is that he paid for a live animal and he recieved a dead one, by no fault of his.
Lucas Denning
 
Sorry to hear about your dead animal Anthony, no likes to have an animal die on them, especially when it was one you produced.  I agree with Greg in his statement that you should obtain some kind of proof so that your rear end is covered and your sure that someone is not trying to take advantage of you.  I also agree with earlier staements sayiny that you owe either a full refund or a replacement both including the shipping costs.  If you are a hobbyist or a dealer or a breeder really doesn't matter if someone puts their trust in you and buys one of your animals they are expecting a healthy live animal and nothing less.  The only way the buyer might have some responsibility in this matter is if they were not there to get the package after you confirmed it would be there.  You should always check the weather reports and talk to your customer about the weather conditions prior to shipment.  I understand that you are an infrequent shipper but that doesn't matter.  You have to stand up and do the right thing here and by doing that your customer will respect you for it and your reputation will remain good here as well and someone may even read this and decide that you are a good guy to business with and bring you more business.  It's kind of the way it works, you do things right and people respond, you do things wrong and people respond.  It's up to you how you want people to respond to you.  The bottom line is that from what I have read so far you either owe that customer a full refund or a replacement animal with shipping also included.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles
 
Damn,,Anthony,,,maybe you need to take a mini-vacation,,,sounds like you have had a rough week dude!!! Anyway,,,it is not your fault the animal died,,however,,it is your responsibility...I am sure that you will rectify this,,as you said you would...Next time,,put a cold pack in the box,,just to be safe...It is better for the animal to be high 60s,,than high 90s...Snakes canrecover from being too cold,,but its hard to recover from over-heating...I only ship U.P.S.((unless is a high dollar animal))and i have never had a problem with them((u.p.s.)) Take care of the problem,,and you will be well respected for it!!!
 
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