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POLL: About the snake that died in shipping...

A

ajc

Guest
I agreed to refund his money the same day that this all happened (Wednesday) on the condition that he shows me a pic of the deceased snake.  

Well, today, he finally replies saying that he doesn't have a pic because they threw the snake away because it has been two days...even though I asked for the pic the evening that it happened.

Isn't it common practice to provide the seller with a pic of the dead animal when requesting a refund?

I am more than prepared to issue a full refund, but I think that I should at least be provided with some kind of proof.  I'm not trying to evade anything.  But, at the same time, I don't want to be a sucker.  

In the customer's defense, they own a pet store, so I don't think they'd have a reason to lie...but you never know.
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What I am asking for is for you guys to help me decide what to do...Because I want to be fair, WITHOUT being a sucker.  

Here's the choices...

Full Refund

Partial Refund

No Refund.  

I will take everyone's "vote" into account and act accordingly.  I will let you guys/girls decide.   Fair enough?  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
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P.S.

Don't bother to blast me here.  If you don't have anything civil to say, don't say anything, as I will not respond or take into account any post that contains senseless BS about how I'm a bad guy or how I'm trying to evade my duty as a business person.  These types of replies will not be taken seriously.
 
Sounds a little hairy to me bro... I dont replace any supposed dead animals without proof.  I usually make them send the animal back to me.  I hope everything works out for you on this man....

Sam Craver
 
Our terms are that the body must be returned to us (at our cost) within 3 days or no refund/replacement.  Too many people now days have the ability to "doctor" photos to make the snake look dead, and even position it however they want.. Or they can send you a poor picture of a dead snake that doesn't show identifying markings clearly enough to make a positive id.  Nowdays I wouldn't take anyone's word as proof of dead arrival (well, with the exception of some people)
 
That is a tough call.  I have only had this issue once that I can recall(it was a leopard gecko that arrived doa), and I was sent pictures the same day as the animal arrived.  Luckily, I keep pictures of all of the animals I have and I was able to match up the pictures they sent me perfectly with the animal I sent them.  
However, alot of times it does not work out this way for people.  I have seen people who sent photos of totally different snakes and/or completely blurry and unusable photos.  
Unfortunately, what makes it the tough call is how you feel about the people that got the doa snake.  Good luck man, hope it all works out for good.
 
im kinda new to this internet herp sales, but if i sold an animal and it arrived DOA, i would provide my customer a full refund, ONLY IF POSITIVE PROOF of the snake demise was given, AL
 
Unless it was someone I completely trusted I would require them to send the snake back to me. I have only had it happen once and I trusted the person even though the snakes were valued at 7G. There have been instances where I have gotten dead snakes and I froze them solid so I could ship them back for verification.

Mike Jones
 
That's a pretty tough call.  If you feel that you trust this person, I would suppose you could refund the money without proof.  However, in most cases people would require proof that the animal died - either a clear picture of the deceased animal or the animal itself shipped overnight back to them.  A pet store should definately know better than to just throw the animal away if they expected a refund.  The stores that I deal with regularly freeze any animals that die so that they can get their refund from whoever they purchased the animal from.  That is the general protocol with cases like this.

Dianne Johnson
 
I'm having a tough time with this.

Obviously, nobody's saying "Give him his money back, no questions asked."  Which is what I'd feel like I was doing, if I did give him a full refund right now.  

I just hate to be a sucker.  

Here's another thing in defense of the customer.

I did wait several hours before telling him that I'd need a picture.  

But, I did say that I'd refund the money earlier that day, so long as FedEx would honor the claim, like my customer claimed they would.

Well, I called to be sure, and of course, FedEx will not honor the claim.

I just kind of thought that it was common practice to get a picture of the animal when claiming that it arrived DOA.  

Should he have known to take a picture or is it my responsibility to ask him immediately?

Again, let me know what you all think.  

Thanks guys & girls,
 
Anthony - My reply would be that since you have already informed the customer that you will refund the money then honor it.  There is the possibility you are being played, but after reading your original thread I think it is unlikely.  My next suggestion is that you add to your terms something about the guarantees (arrival, DOA responses, etc.).  Hopefully you won't have to cross this bridge again..

Stephen Emerick
Napa Valley Snakes
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Isn't it common practice to provide the seller with a pic of the dead animal when requesting a refund?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Absolutely, especially since you requested it in the beginning.  Or sending it back for a necropsy.  Which is what I do or no refund.  To many crooks and shiesters out there these days.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just hate to be a sucker.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Remember this, there is one born every minute.  Dont be that one.

Get proof before ANY money is exchanged.

That being said, you really need to get some sort of terms and conditions in writing on every transaction.  This could be emailed and clear alot of this newby stuff up for you in the future.  You have to protect yourself from crooks.  It stinks but its true.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (napavalleysnakes @ Sep. 06 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anthony - My reply would be that since you have already informed the customer that you will refund the money then honor it.  There is the possibility you are being played, but after reading your original thread I think it is unlikely.  My next suggestion is that you add to your terms something about the guarantees (arrival, DOA responses, etc.).  Hopefully you won't have to cross this bridge again..

Stephen Emerick
Napa Valley Snakes</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Stephen,

I did say that I'd replace it ONLY if FedEx would honor the claim, like the guy said they would.

Is that the only reason you think I should refund him?  Just curious.

I think that I probably will refund it, if anything, just so I don't feel bad about it later...but I just want to feel good about my decision all the way around.
 
Its a very tuff call on your part Anthony, But common practice is for the customer to provide proof of the dead animal.  If you are sure in your mind that it did arrived dead then there should be no problem.  But if you dont really know this person, they could just be saying that just because the animal arrived late and are trying to take advantage of you.  Like I said before, my policy is they send the dead animal back to me within 48 hours of them recieving it.  Let me know how you make out bro.

Sam Craver
 
I'm the one who suggested you get pics in your original thread as proof of the animal's demise. I recommended it to you the same day hoping they wouldn't throw the snake away. When I have a doa I immediately contact the sender and take pics as well as freeze the animal afterwards. Remember, the conditions were ripe for you to be taken because you immediately assumed the animal was dead due to the heat and late arrival. I personally would not refund without proof because no matter how honest you think these people are unfortunately there are scammers out there who take advantage of situations. Expecting them to send the snake back is a bit much but pictures should have been the least they could have done.
 
you say they own a pet shop and that makes their word good,but being in a buisness,they should know not to throw the snake away.ask them if someone buys a pet from them and simply calls with a doa claim,if they are just going to issue a refund,on their costomers word-I highly doubt it!!!
tough call man!!!!!        Jason KIper
 
I think they should have known to take pictures, but then again, I waited several hours before actually telling them to take pics.  

Do you guys think that it would be fair to offer half?  I'm just having a hard time pinning this all on them....telling them "Tough crap.  You're screwed.  You should've known better."
 
If you said you would give them a refund if fed-ex honored the claim, then they may have assumed that you trusted them, so they tossed the snake. Why would they keep it? You should have asked for proof, before you said you would issue a refund. When you said you would issue a refund, and did not specifically say "send me proof" then you implied that no proof was needed. As a customer, I would never dispose of an animal until I talked to the shipper, which they did .
 
My terms clearly state </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Live arrival is guaranteed if picked up within 4 hours of arrival. I must be notified of any D.O.A. and proof may be required.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I personally never throw any d.o.a. I receive until I have discussed it with the shipper first. Then I still keep them in my freezer for a while until a person I know picks up all the dead bodies for zoo/University necropsy for educational purposes.  You made it sound to them as they would not have to keep the body when you told them you would issue a refund. Unfortunately that let them of the hook of having to keep the body for verification. I would issue the full refund if I were you and just change your terms to reflect the proof requirement in the future.
 
Yep...that's kinda what I'm thinking.  They may have scammed me, but it was my bad for not asking for proof immediately.  

I'll just give them the money back and chalk it up as a lesson learned.  I've been keeping snakes for ten years, but this shipping stuff is fairly new to me.  Oh well, you live and you learn.
 
Anthony - I believe that even if you don't receive compensation from Fed-Ex, you need to refund the money.
My reasoning is this:
1) You replied you would
2) If you are building a name in the business, this is a really good way to start off.  Think of this customer, this board, and those who read/hear from either.  What will they say if you don't replace the animal ?  What will they say if you do ?
I know what my response is.  To have repeat customers you need to keep them satisfied.  There are some pretty shady sorts out there, but being an optimist, I think they are in the minority.
3) For your own peace of mind.  You will never know if they took you or not for the animal, but at the same time, you will know that you rectified the situation to the best of your ability.

Stephen Emerick
Napa Valley Snakes
 
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