Mile High Herps (Susan Newman) - IBD Infected Snake

In July I ordered an 02 5' long probable Super Salmon boa female from Susan Newman of Mile High Herps. It was placed in a quarantine enclosure. The snake was a problem feeder from the beginning. I generally do not hold that to be a big deal. However, the snake began regurgitating and quickly developed a severe RI that was unresponsive to treatment. Shortly thereafter, the animal died. The necropsy revealed the RI as expected. Although, I was confused because I have never a boa RI before and have never seen a case that was so resistant to treatment, both passive and aggressive. Tissue samples were sent off for pathology. The results showed that the snake was infected with Inclusion Body Disease. The time frame from the time of arrival to the date of death was only 71 days. I routinely have necropsy and pathology tests done on snakes that die and have never had a case IBD in my entire history. I am preparing to have liver biopsies done on other boids in the collection (about 30) to check for exposure. These will be repeated in several months to ensure that the collection is clear.

Susan Newman denies any responsibility and will not return emails. She has even blocked my email address. Evidently from her last email, she feels that a snake infected with IBD is still "healthy".

I maintain immaculate records and am very thorough when it comes to healthcare and treatment. I can post portions of the pathology report and some other information (such as a complete history of the animal since its arrival) upon request. Much of the evidence is being retained as legal action against Susan Newman is in progress. My legal council has already advised me that i have a solid case given the 20 pages of evidence I have already compiled. I have offered her three chances to talk about a resolution before legal action and they have been ignored. She simply is not taking the situation seriously. I consider exposing a rather large and expensive collection of snakes and selling an expensive snake with a terminal and highly contagious disease a serious matter.

Anyone who has bought a snake from Susan Newman at Mile High Herps should have a liver biopsy done immediately to check for Inclusion Bodies. This is the most effective means of detection in a live snake. I would also suggest a thorough pathology report on any animal from her (or in close proximity to one from her) that dies.

Please feel free to post any questions you may have and i Will do my best to answer them while maintaining the integrity of the legal action. I planned on not posting here until litigation was complete, however I feel that other people's collections may be at risk.

With all due respect to your problem...which you seem to have a pretty good handle on at the moment...is there anyway to find out where this Susan got this snake from? Did she produce this animal or give you records of where the animal came originally from? You seem to be a stickler for record keeping so I'm assuming you wanted records of this animal when you purchased it.

Anyway...the broader problem is that more than likely she is still selling animals that could be further spreading IBD into collections.

Oh by the way.....I'd also like to see the vet report if you can post it.

I agree with Chuck

A vet report will help your case, also how much did you pay for the snake?

Did your animals share feeding tubs? Even the animals in quarantine? Unintended cross contamination can and does happen.

Have you informed Susan about this thread??

IBD is a very serious illness and some snakes can remain asymptomatic for 2 years or more. The live liver biopsy's are your best bet. My heart goes out to you, I hope your collection test is negative. Please give an update and post all the pertant information.

It was bred by Matasuk (sp) in 2002. She obtained the animal in 2003. I got her version of a history sheet with the animal. Giant gaps in feeding records and not much more information. Luckily it did have the breeder and when she acquired it. I have the exact dates in the file at home and can post them this evening. I also contacted the breeder before acquiring the animal. While he did not specifically remember selling the animal to her, he did have a clutch sold within the time frame from a Super Salmon to a Salmon breeding which would coincide with her being a Probable Super Salmon.

In addition to the cost of the animal that perished ($915 after shipping and "paypal fees"), vet fees, and pathology, I also had a signed breeding loan contract prior to the pathology report indicating IBD. This was for a very profitable loan of my proven Super DH Ghost male to sire an Anerythristic Female. Upon arrival of the pathology results, I immediately contacted the owner of the female to cancel the breeding loan. While my male was never in direct contact or close proximity with the IBD infected animal, I will not risk infecting anyone else's collection.

My herp rooms are quarantined from anyone who keeps boids. I routinely use Nitrile gloves and hand sanitizer when working with the animals and everything is disinfected with a high concentration of Chlorhexidine. But due to the nature of this disease, all precautions are being taken. Since the pathology report, glove use and sterilization procedures have been increased to a sterile setting. With a stock of almost 70 animals, I am going through a large box of gloves every couple days. Any item from my in-house "clinic" that came in contact with the animal has been disposed of (i.e. speculums). Needles are never reused and are disposed of in a biohazard needle container as is any test matter (i.e. fecal exam).

You can imagine the cost that will soon incur for the testing of the other animals. Having a veterinarian take a liver biopsy from a live snake is not an easy or cheap process. Neither is pathology tests on the samples. That cost is multiplied by the amount of stock.

Below are pertinent selections from the pathology report that was forwarded to me via email by my vet from the pathology lab.

MICROSCOPIC: Inclusions: Cytoplasmic eosinophilic inclusions are noted inneuron cell bodies, glial cells, mucosal cells of the stomach, myeloid cells of the bone marrow, myofibers of the heart, mucosal cells of the oral and nasal cavities, respiratory epithelium of the lung, tracheal mucosal epithelium, renal tubular epithelium, intestinal mucosal epithelium, and oviduct epithelium.

DIAGNOSIS: 1. Inclusion body disease.
2. Granulomatous bronchointerstitial pneumonia with intralesional bacteria.
3. Few microgranulomas, liver.
4. Mild renal tubular mineralization.
5. Mild tracheitis.

COMMENT: Histologic changes are consistent with Inclusion body disease and bacterial pneumonia with sepsis. The bacterial condition may be an opportunistic infection and is a common sequel to inclusion body disease in boas. Although the etiology of inclusion body disease has not been determined, a viral etiology has been proposed. The condition appears to be transmissible vertically and horizontally. In this regard, you may want to consider screening conspecifics and penmates, if pertinent. Hepatic biopsy is the most sensitive means of antemortem screening for inclusion body disease in susceptible snakes.

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Is She is Colorado? Also does she have a web-site? IF she is in Colorado I haven't heard of her??

Thanks Erik

Laura Cox said:

Have you informed Susan about this thread??

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She has elected to block my email address rather than addressing the issue. So she has not been contacted. You can email her at [email protected]

I cannot post the entire pathology report or much other information because of sensitive material and material that is pertinent to the legal case. If requested, I can send the original to a trusted and neutral third party here so that the authenticity of anything I post can be verified.

I have informed Susan to have her attorney contact me if there is any documentation that she requires that my legal council agrees to share. In all honesty, she has no viable defense given the very thick folder of evidence that I have. As I have told her 3 times, I truly do not wish this matter to be taken to a legal level and wanted to discuss alternative solutions. She is unresponsive and denies any accountability.

The purpose of this thread is to, hopefully, save others from enduring this horrible disease and the hefty monetary and emotional costs associated with it.

EriksReptiles said:

Is She is Colorado? Also does she have a web-site? IF she is in Colorado I haven't heard of her??

Thanks Erik

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Aurora, CO 80017
No Web site

I did a quick search for milehighherps on yahoo and there is only one that is owned by an Alex and Laura Tanner. www.milehighherps.com. Is Susan an employee of this company?

No she is not associated. Evidently she did not do much research before choosing that name. The following link addresses this.
http://forum.kingsnake.com/rosyboa/messages/6015.html

Gottcha...thanks for letting me know.

I do not want any confusion between her and Mile High Morph Ranch (milehighherps.com). This is why i added her name in the title of the thread. But I am glad that you addressed that misconception early in the thread so that there will not be repercussions for innocent parties.

Also, if someone would please notify her of this thread it would be appreciated. My email address was blocked without notification. The third and final email was sent from a second account on the same domain. That is my last email communication with her until the block is lifted and I have her written consent to email her. I will not be accused by her of harassing emails, even if they are regarding legal matters.

Yes, PLEASE dont confuse this lady's name with Alex and Laura Tanner. They are not TOGETHER. I am good friends with Alex and Laura and there collection is crystal clean and they are great people!

I have never heard of this lady. Although by the sounds of it she doesn't have a huge collection or a very clean one.

Thanks Erik

BWSmith said:

It was bred by Matasuk (sp) in 2002. She obtained the animal in 2003. I got her version of a history sheet with the animal. Giant gaps in feeding records and not much more information. Luckily it did have the breeder and when she acquired it. I have the exact dates in the file at home and can post them this evening. I also contacted the breeder before acquiring the animal. While he did not specifically remember selling the animal to her, he did have a clutch sold within the time frame from a Super Salmon to a Salmon breeding which would coincide with her being a Probable Super Salmon.

In addition to the cost of the animal that perished ($915 after shipping and "paypal fees"), vet fees, and pathology, I also had a signed breeding loan contract prior to the pathology report indicating IBD. This was for a very profitable loan of my proven Super DH Ghost male to sire an Anerythristic Female. Upon arrival of the pathology results, I immediately contacted the owner of the female to cancel the breeding loan. While my male was never in direct contact or close proximity with the IBD infected animal, I will not risk infecting anyone else's collection.

My herp rooms are quarantined from anyone who keeps boids. I routinely use Nitrile gloves and hand sanitizer when working with the animals and everything is disinfected with a high concentration of Chlorhexidine. But due to the nature of this disease, all precautions are being taken. Since the pathology report, glove use and sterilization procedures have been increased to a sterile setting. With a stock of almost 70 animals, I am going through a large box of gloves every couple days. Any item from my in-house "clinic" that came in contact with the animal has been disposed of (i.e. speculums). Needles are never reused and are disposed of in a biohazard needle container as is any test matter (i.e. fecal exam).

You can imagine the cost that will soon incur for the testing of the other animals. Having a veterinarian take a liver biopsy from a live snake is not an easy or cheap process. Neither is pathology tests on the samples. That cost is multiplied by the amount of stock.

Below are pertinent selections from the pathology report that was forwarded to me via email by my vet from the pathology lab.

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Roughly $200 per animal for the testing............and may I say that I'm very impressed with the way that you've handled this, from your record keep, to your animal handling.......Bravo my friend!!

Laura Cox said:

Roughly $200 per animal for the testing............and may I say that I'm very impressed with the way that you've handled this, from your record keep, to your animal handling.......Bravo my friend!!

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Thank you. Getting irate and irrational does not accomplish anything. This is the first time I have had to deal with anything this serious, but is the precise reason that I am so meticulous on records.

And I realize that it is a cliché to threaten legal action. However, I sincerely hope that Susan realizes the gravity of the situation and that I have already spoken to an attorney, taken steps for a suit, and am moving forward with it as she seems unwilling to discuss any other solution. Travel, time, and money to pursue the suit is not a concern. My biggest issue is that I am a Southern Man, and having to go to Denver in the winter time is not appealing.

Do you believe that she knowingly sent you an infected or potentially infected animal?

Jim O said:

Do you believe that she knowingly sent you an infected or potentially infected animal?

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Yes, I believe that she knew there was a serious illness in her collection and still sold them. It is also suspicious that this infected animal was part of a group that she was basically liquidating at the time. I am now aware of other animals sold by her that died shortly after. As I have limited information regarding these deaths, they may choose to elaborate on this.

I am not sure if I answered your question sufficiently.

A little history on the animal itself:

11/03 – Susan Newman acquired it from Doug Matasuk (as per the history sheet)

She had the animal for 1 year and 8 months. Had it been infected prior to her acquisition, it would have been dead.

Directly from my history card (I can scan it in if need be):

07/20/05
Acquired – 5.5 lb, roughly 5’ long

07/23/05
Refused F/T Medium Rat

08/02/05
Shed

08/05/05
Refused F/T Medium Rat

08/12/05
Live Medium Rat

08/20/05
Refused F/T Medium Rat

08/23/05
Live Medium Rat

08/30/05
F/T Medium Rat – Regurgitated

08/31/05
Began to show outward symptoms of an RI
Raised heat in enclosure

09/13/05
F/T Medium Rat – Regurgitated

09/14/05
Snake had signs of advanced RI (bubbles and mucus)
Snake weighed in at 2.4 kg
Administered .24 CC Amikacin SQ cut with Ringers

09/17/05
Administered .12 CC Amikacin SQ cut with Ringers

09/20/05
Administered .12 CC Amikacin SQ cut with Ringers

09/28/05
Snake Died

09/29/05
Delivered snake to Vet for necropsy

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Animal died 71 days after arrival.

On 10/13/05, pathology report received.

Susan is familiar with the BOI.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67941&highlight=Susan