brumate problem feeder (long)

I have a male and female black pinesnake approx 1yr4mo old. They are both very shy feeders. Usually I put them in a plastic tub or cardboard box in a dark cabinet to feed. They are housed and fed separately. The female eats 95% of the time but the male has gone off feed for 3 weeks straight. I've tried f/t small mice and rat pups. I've also tried f/k and live hopper mice. The live mouse he killed but didn't eat. Last time, tried a live fuzzy with small fresh killed mouse hoping the fuzzy would kick in his feeding response. He ate the fuzzy but didn't touch the f/k. Will try some pet store stock of live and f/t. If that doesn't work should I put him down for the winter?
Will this work for a brumation tank? I have a large Coleman cooler and was thinking of putting a few ice packs in it then rotating them. Will do a trial run without snake and monitor temperatures first. My apt is somewhat small and there is no special area I can keep cooler than the rest of the apartment. Any advice is appreciated.

When was the last time he shed? A friend of mine had a snake that did not eat for 2 months, found out that it needed to shed but the temps and humidity were not right. Once they removed it's shed it went on a feeding frenzy. Double check you temps and make sure your humidity is right. Have you taken them to a vet? They may have a parasite you are not aware of.

If your female is not even 2 years old yet I would not even bother trying to breed her. She is still young, she is capable of breeding at 2 years old, but 3 is ideal. I would suggest you keep them warm and get them into a strong feeding habit. Cooling them now while they are picky eaters may end up affecting them, they could easily get sick if they are not fattened up a bit before cooling.

Thanks. I'll hold off on brumation. Don't plan on breeding them till they are finished growing even then I may not. Has been a few months since his last shed. The female usually eats but doesn't like to be watched as well. She has A LOT of attitude
Do have a low humidity problem in winter. Have started misting the cage but will put a humid hide in as well.
Keeping ambient room temp in the low 70s, and warm end mid 80s.

should say misting the CAGES for all my snakes

are these CB or WC snakes? and did you have them last winter? If they are WC, and they had to deal with real winter last year, you may be better off cooling them down as long as they still have good body weight. you don't necessarily have to get them COLD, or extend the brumation for the normal time span. There is probably a spot that gets cool enough somewhere in your apt...in a closet, or cabinet, for example. When my basement got too cold for me to be comfortable keeping my brumating snakes down there last winter, I put them at the back of one of the kitchen cabinets (floor, not overhead) for a few weeks (my wife never knew til she saw me taking them out...but she wasn't happy). get them down to around 60 degrees for about 6 weeks then bring them back up...don't forget - you should give them a couple weeks after their last feeding, and soak them overnite to clear their gut before dropping the temps.
Another thing to try is easing back on the high end temps...high 70s to 80 is fine, unless you have a bunch of other stuff & don't have the flexibility to control their temps.

both CB purchased Oct-04, Born Aug-04. Is it possible to go blue, not shed, not show any signs of needing to shed such as pieces of shed partially removed, and still have a complete shed in place that is causing problems? How would one detect and fix that?

Even though young, could being housed right next to the female be throwing him off? Think I will try 2 more times with multiple small prey items of f/t rat and f/k or live mice. Found the perfect cupboard for him if I brumate - 60F and no chemicals have been stored there.

What would be a 'typical' weight, length, diameter, and diet of black pines this age? Hope I'm not driving you guys crazy with questions - all suggestions are appreciated.

sumguy said:

both CB purchased Oct-04, Born Aug-04. Is it possible to go blue, not shed, not show any signs of needing to shed such as pieces of shed partially removed, and still have a complete shed in place that is causing problems? How would one detect and fix that?

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Yes, if the humidity is too low. Usually however, you can detect that problem by both the appearance and feel of the snake. Initially, that shed is pretty easy to remove with a soak; but after a week or two goes by, it is much more difficult.

sumguy said:

Even though young, could being housed right next to the female be throwing him off?

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It doesn't sound as if she would be mature enough to have that kind of hormonal activity (did you mention her size?); but if she is, that could be a factor. Honestly, it has been awhile since I worked with Pituophis...and I don't recall if the males go off feed to any extent during breeding (then again, I don't recall ever having a Pit that was a problem feeder)

update

I offered him four live hoppers 2 small, 2 large. He ate the first small hopper outright and apparrently knocked out the 2nd small hopper because he ate it live after constricting and eating the 1st large hopper. The 2nd large hopper, he also killed. As he circled the tub looking for a way out, he would occasionally bump the last hopper. He would then usually grab it ass end first, give up after a few seconds of trying to position it, and continue looking for a way out. This happened a half-dozen times and the whole situation took a couple hours.

last update

He finally shed - hadn't shed since last year. Both snakes are less shy about feeding now. The male that went off feed prefers eating rat pups/weanling over mice. Now that he's had a complete shed I feel better. He should start putting weight back on since he's eating weekly. Next season I'll brumate him so he doesn't lose so much weight.