wyblep
New member
I would like to call on the members of the BOI for there honest professional opinion of a transaction I have recently been involved in. I would first like to say that the events I am about to list are as accurate as my memory serves me. I spoke to a gentleman about two adult pastel males I had for sale. I'll leave his identity anonymous for now, as he is a well advertised ball python "breeder". I will also sent him a link to this thread to make him aware of it.
I was selling one of the adult male pastels for 1650.00 and one for 1750.00. These were both adults from 04 weighing 800 plus grams. When we had our first conversation it was on 11-20-05. I told the gentleman a little bit about their feeding habits, such as one of them was still feeding but the other has refused food for the last two weeks. And also, that I introduced both males with females,and they each copulated with a female once while in my possession. I spoke again with the gentleman on 11-24-05 and we agreed on a price of 2500.00 for both males, and I would split the cost of shipping - 70.00 via Delta Dash. I received payment on 11-27-05 for a total of 2535.00 via paypal. An email was sent to the gentleman to confirm that the payment was received, and that I would be calling him later in the week to discuss shipping arrangements. I spoke with him a few days later and we agreed that I would send the two male pastels via Delta Dash on 12-05-05. The animals were shipped, and he received them. When I spoke to him, after he received the animals, he said they felt a little cold to the touch ( even though I shipped them with two heat packs). But, he also stated that he "felt that they would be just fine." I received a call two days later on 12-07-05 from him, and he asked if either snakes ever had any RI's. I told him they never had any health problems at all. He said his partner thought that maybe one had a mild RI, but wasn't sure. I informed him to keep him warm, and to keep me updated. I never heard anything from him again regarding any possible URI, so I assumed the animals were doing fine for him. I then got a phone call on 1-12-06 from this gentleman stating that the one pastel has eaten several times and is currently breeding but the other one had not fed. He also stated that he attempted to breed the male (that did not eat for him and his partner suspected of having a mild URI) for 24 hours with a female, and he did not hook up - so he introduced him to another female overnight and he did not see him hook with that female either. So this particular phone call was to inform me that because of these circumstances at that present time, he was only half way happy with the transaction because he bought these young adult males to breed this year, and only one of them was breeding after 48 hours of introducing them with females. Please keep in mind, this is a self- proclaimed, relatively well known ball python breeder. I would have expected more from someone of this breeder's caliber. I would think that if the health of one of them was even questionable, he would have pulled them from his project, and consulted me about what appropriate actions we would take together to correct the condition of the snake and monetary aspect of the deal. Also, I'm under the impression from his actions that I'm supposed to be responsible for whether or not this male decides to breed when He wants it to?
Nothing else was ever mentioned about any health issues. I was under the impression that the male in question must obviously be fine - he's introducing it to females, right? He only mentioned that he was upset because the one male did not hook up on his first two attempts, and he did not want a male that was NOT going to breed for him right now. So I told him to be patient and give him a little more time with the females. I then received a phone call on 1-14-06 which was two days later, stating that the male pastel that did not hook up was found belly up in his container. He then asked me for a full refund. Now keep in mind, I haven't heard anything from this guy for 5 weeks now - concerning the health of this snake. I actually remember him stating that his "partner" told him, that he thought he had heard a slight wheeze from the snake. But the buyer insist that he informed me that his partner felt the snake had a mild URI. Which leads me to another question - who's really in control of caring for this guys snakes? Through our conversations, he's informed me that he's mostly the business end of it.
After informing me that the snake had died, I first asked him if there were ever any signs of any health problems. He told me there were no signs of any health problems that he could see, and this was very unexpected. I then proceeded to ask how these snakes were kept and he said they were housed individually in 28 quart Rubbermaid's on newspaper with a ambient room temperature of 80-81 degrees with no hot spot or heat tape at all. Now I know, if I had a snake that had early signs of a upper respiratory infection, the very first thing I would do is raise the temps and this very likely could take care of the problem. That's the least of what I would do, in the best interest of the animal, He on the other hand, only seemed concerned about this male's immediate reproductive/monetary potential.
We also discussed a little bit about what he thought was fair and what he expected. He feels I should give him a full refund for the snake that died even though it was five weeks after the sale. It is his opinion that even if he contacted me 5 months later I would still be responsible because this animal did not eat or breed in his hands yet. He then contradicted himself, and admitted that these animals had good body weight, and the fact that it did not eat for a couple of weeks had nothing to do with its demise. I on the other hand, just can't see how I could be responsible after such a long period of time after the sale. He also felt the need to tell me that he's not some small time breeder, and if he did not get a full refund that he would be forced to post here on the BOI to warn any of my future customers and it might cost me $5000.-10,000 in future sales. So, I thought I'd just cut to the chase, and ask for your opinions in this unfortunate situation. I really feel that I'm the one getting taken advantage of. If this animal really did have an upper respiratory infection, I would have been more than happy to correct the situation. But it obviously WAS healthy enough, in HIS judgement, to introduce to females for breeding purposes. So please let me know where YOU think my responsibility ends after the sale. One week? Three weeks? A month? And who is really getting the "dark" end of the stick here? Please feel free to ask any questions you might have and I will be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability. And thanks again for everyone's help in this matter. Paul Wyble
I was selling one of the adult male pastels for 1650.00 and one for 1750.00. These were both adults from 04 weighing 800 plus grams. When we had our first conversation it was on 11-20-05. I told the gentleman a little bit about their feeding habits, such as one of them was still feeding but the other has refused food for the last two weeks. And also, that I introduced both males with females,and they each copulated with a female once while in my possession. I spoke again with the gentleman on 11-24-05 and we agreed on a price of 2500.00 for both males, and I would split the cost of shipping - 70.00 via Delta Dash. I received payment on 11-27-05 for a total of 2535.00 via paypal. An email was sent to the gentleman to confirm that the payment was received, and that I would be calling him later in the week to discuss shipping arrangements. I spoke with him a few days later and we agreed that I would send the two male pastels via Delta Dash on 12-05-05. The animals were shipped, and he received them. When I spoke to him, after he received the animals, he said they felt a little cold to the touch ( even though I shipped them with two heat packs). But, he also stated that he "felt that they would be just fine." I received a call two days later on 12-07-05 from him, and he asked if either snakes ever had any RI's. I told him they never had any health problems at all. He said his partner thought that maybe one had a mild RI, but wasn't sure. I informed him to keep him warm, and to keep me updated. I never heard anything from him again regarding any possible URI, so I assumed the animals were doing fine for him. I then got a phone call on 1-12-06 from this gentleman stating that the one pastel has eaten several times and is currently breeding but the other one had not fed. He also stated that he attempted to breed the male (that did not eat for him and his partner suspected of having a mild URI) for 24 hours with a female, and he did not hook up - so he introduced him to another female overnight and he did not see him hook with that female either. So this particular phone call was to inform me that because of these circumstances at that present time, he was only half way happy with the transaction because he bought these young adult males to breed this year, and only one of them was breeding after 48 hours of introducing them with females. Please keep in mind, this is a self- proclaimed, relatively well known ball python breeder. I would have expected more from someone of this breeder's caliber. I would think that if the health of one of them was even questionable, he would have pulled them from his project, and consulted me about what appropriate actions we would take together to correct the condition of the snake and monetary aspect of the deal. Also, I'm under the impression from his actions that I'm supposed to be responsible for whether or not this male decides to breed when He wants it to?
Nothing else was ever mentioned about any health issues. I was under the impression that the male in question must obviously be fine - he's introducing it to females, right? He only mentioned that he was upset because the one male did not hook up on his first two attempts, and he did not want a male that was NOT going to breed for him right now. So I told him to be patient and give him a little more time with the females. I then received a phone call on 1-14-06 which was two days later, stating that the male pastel that did not hook up was found belly up in his container. He then asked me for a full refund. Now keep in mind, I haven't heard anything from this guy for 5 weeks now - concerning the health of this snake. I actually remember him stating that his "partner" told him, that he thought he had heard a slight wheeze from the snake. But the buyer insist that he informed me that his partner felt the snake had a mild URI. Which leads me to another question - who's really in control of caring for this guys snakes? Through our conversations, he's informed me that he's mostly the business end of it.
After informing me that the snake had died, I first asked him if there were ever any signs of any health problems. He told me there were no signs of any health problems that he could see, and this was very unexpected. I then proceeded to ask how these snakes were kept and he said they were housed individually in 28 quart Rubbermaid's on newspaper with a ambient room temperature of 80-81 degrees with no hot spot or heat tape at all. Now I know, if I had a snake that had early signs of a upper respiratory infection, the very first thing I would do is raise the temps and this very likely could take care of the problem. That's the least of what I would do, in the best interest of the animal, He on the other hand, only seemed concerned about this male's immediate reproductive/monetary potential.
We also discussed a little bit about what he thought was fair and what he expected. He feels I should give him a full refund for the snake that died even though it was five weeks after the sale. It is his opinion that even if he contacted me 5 months later I would still be responsible because this animal did not eat or breed in his hands yet. He then contradicted himself, and admitted that these animals had good body weight, and the fact that it did not eat for a couple of weeks had nothing to do with its demise. I on the other hand, just can't see how I could be responsible after such a long period of time after the sale. He also felt the need to tell me that he's not some small time breeder, and if he did not get a full refund that he would be forced to post here on the BOI to warn any of my future customers and it might cost me $5000.-10,000 in future sales. So, I thought I'd just cut to the chase, and ask for your opinions in this unfortunate situation. I really feel that I'm the one getting taken advantage of. If this animal really did have an upper respiratory infection, I would have been more than happy to correct the situation. But it obviously WAS healthy enough, in HIS judgement, to introduce to females for breeding purposes. So please let me know where YOU think my responsibility ends after the sale. One week? Three weeks? A month? And who is really getting the "dark" end of the stick here? Please feel free to ask any questions you might have and I will be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability. And thanks again for everyone's help in this matter. Paul Wyble
