DavidThomson
New member
First of all, let me say that I have no intention of arguing back and forth with all the BOI regulars or any of Steve's friends here. I know that I never received my snake and I know I'm an honest person, as do many others. With that in mind, I'm not asking for anyone's opinion or for anyone to back me up.
I'm only posting this experience on the BOI so that nobody else will get ripped off in this same scam by Steve Weissman of Santa Cruz Reptiles.
After seeing an ad on the Ball Python classifieds by Steve Weissman of Santa Cruz Reptiles for a male Super Pastel Ball Python, I contacted him and we worked out an even trade for one of my Cinnamon Pastel males.
I shipped the male Cinnamon to Steve on Thursday, January 6th for arrival Friday, Jan. 7th. Steve was supposed to ship on Thursday as well, but he said he was out of shipping boxes, so he postponed shipping to me until Friday, January 7th. Steve received the Cinnamon on Jan. 7th as promised, and supposedly shipped the Super Pastel to me that same day.
On Saturday, January 8th, I received the package from UPS, but it felt extremely light. I decided to carefully cut the tape only on one side and then down the middle, just in case. Sure enough, I peeked inside and found that the box was completely empty, no styrofoam lining or snake.
I called Steve and notified him immediately of the situation. I'm a pretty trusting person, so even though I can't see how anyone else would have gotten into the box, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. The first thing he asked is if the box was crushed and the snake possibly escaped. I explained to Steve that the box was in near perfect condition and that it didn't appear to have been tampered with, but Steve said that if the styrofoam liner wasn’t there then it must have been crushed during shipping. I explained that I hadn't opened the box all the way, so there's really no way someone could have removed the two-piece molded inner styrofoam box. Steve got quiet and had nothing to say about the box after that, but he said that he would talk to his UPS guy and that he would be in touch.
FYI, The box was made by Uline, so I checked with them to see if the styrofoam should have been six pieces or a two piece styrofoam liner like Pro-Pak boxes come with. According to their website, the box that Steve shipped to me should have contained a two piece molded styrofoam liner.
During the following two days, Steve ignored several phone calls and messages, but finally emailed me on Tuesday, January 10th. From that point on, I did not telephone him again, as I thought it would be wise to keep all correspondence in writing, via email.
Here are all the emails from there on...
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Message about: SUPER Pastel Male - Great Blushing $7,500
> I spoke with ups today, and they agreed that an empty box would be
> crushed at least part way on a trip to you David. That means only two
> things; the last delivery driver opened the box and took contents,
> which seems highly dubious given the fact that you stated box was not
> played with, or box and snakes arrived to you intact. My driver
> suggested you speak with ups on your end and ask their opinion on what
> to do. Steve
>
My reply...
Steve,
The box not being crushed does not prove that there was a snake or styrofoam liner in the box during shipment. Boxes without styrofoam go through UPS all the time without being crushed. In fact, I even know wholesalers who ship animals without styrofoam in late spring and early fall. Furthermore, the box you sent has 200lb crush rating printed right on the bottom. I called ULINE and confirmed that the crush rating applies to the cardboard single wall box itself, not the styrofoam liner.
I have a good reputation in this hobby/industry and several well known breeders who will attest to that. References include Brian at BHB, Anthony Caponetto, Dr. Jay Owens, Kevin & Kara at NERD, Bob Clark, Mike Wilbanks and many others who would be glad to vouch for me.
Regardless of my solid reputation, there is no way I could have taken the snake and styrofoam liner out of the box because I did not cut all the tape. In addition to that, the shipping label is on top of all the layers of tape, so whoever put the label on that box was the last person who could have gotten into it.
I think anyone would agree that it's highly unlikely someone could have removed the shipping label, cut the box open, removed the contents and then used the exact same tape to reseal the box and then put the label back on top of that.
Your solution is unacceptable. You know as well as I do that UPS is not going to help me recover or reimburse me for a $7,500 snake. If for no other reason than the fact that they don't allow the shipment of snakes.
Your website states that you have a live arrival guarantee and to notify you within 48 hours if there is a problem. Needless to say, the snake did not arrive at all, live or otherwise and I did contact you within the 48 hour time frame.
Like I said, I didn't want this to be confrontational, but I can't let this slide considering the dollar value of the snake I sent you. If this is not resolved by Friday, January 13, I will contact my attorney and local police department in order to persue civil and criminal charges. I will also report this incident (along with photos of the box) on the Fauna Classifieds BOI and to Kingsnake, so that this doesn't happen to anyone else.
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
913.424.4809
His reply...
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Super Pastel
>I would be VERY careful about whom you try to slander. The label was on
>the tape I used, and can easily be pulled off in one piece. Cutting the
>tape is not necessary. Rest assured, it is a two way street out there,
>and It will be my word, and several others who handled the box on my
>end, against just you. If you wish to send the box back, I will
>inspect it to see if I can determine anything. You stated this has
>happened before, and I wonder if ups delivered to you that time also?
>
My reply...
Steve,
Please don't try to intimidate me because that isn't going to happen. First of all, I know that I didn't get the snake, so you're going to have a hard time convincing me that this is somehow my fault. Furthermore, I've been into reptiles a long time and as a general rule of thumb, scammers always try to accuse the other party of being dishonest, they always use the word "slander" and they always have two hundred witnesses who saw them pack the snake. Anyone can say the things you're saying (and they usually do), so if you think that's going to help you get out of this, by all means go right ahead.
By definition, slander is when someone lies about someone else in order to damage their reputation. By contrast, this is a situation where I don't need to lie about anything. Rest assured, if I have to report this on the BOI or elsewhere, I will tell exactly what happened and let the readers draw their own conclusion. You received your snake and I did not, so this is your reputation on the line, not mine.
I have plenty of well known references in this industry too. Many of them know my financial situation, so they know that I wouldn't try to cheat anyone out of a $7,500 snake. To me, this is a matter of principal and if I have to spend all $7,500 to make sure that you don't get away with this, I'm more than willing and able to do so.
I will most certainly not be sending the box back to you because I'll be handing it over to the authorities for them to inspect on Friday afternoon if that's what I have to do. The label is straddling the tape and is affixed to the box on both sides of the tape. Furthermore, the label is scored so that it can't be removed in one piece.
As for the other big loss that I took this year, it was a very different situation. I shipped a snake before the remaining cash balance was paid and I never saw the rest of my money.
Please don't waste anymore time trying to convince me to let this slide. If this is not handled by Friday, I will do exactly what I said in my last email.
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
913.424.4809
His reply....
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Super Pastel
> Now I know why I hate red states like yours so much! You need some
> black people from New Orleans to get the stick out of your asses!
> Probably religious too you gonif.
>
----------------------------------------
Obviously, Steve's last email wasn't worth replying to. Considering the facts, the condition of the box (tape still intact on one side) and the tone of Steve's emails, I think it's clear that Steve hasn't delivered on his live arrival guarantee and has no intention of doing so. As such, I am pursuing all legal avenues to recover my loss and at the very least, to make sure that Steve never gets away with this again.
Thanks for your time,
Sincerely,
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
Mobile 913.424.4809
I'm only posting this experience on the BOI so that nobody else will get ripped off in this same scam by Steve Weissman of Santa Cruz Reptiles.
After seeing an ad on the Ball Python classifieds by Steve Weissman of Santa Cruz Reptiles for a male Super Pastel Ball Python, I contacted him and we worked out an even trade for one of my Cinnamon Pastel males.
I shipped the male Cinnamon to Steve on Thursday, January 6th for arrival Friday, Jan. 7th. Steve was supposed to ship on Thursday as well, but he said he was out of shipping boxes, so he postponed shipping to me until Friday, January 7th. Steve received the Cinnamon on Jan. 7th as promised, and supposedly shipped the Super Pastel to me that same day.
On Saturday, January 8th, I received the package from UPS, but it felt extremely light. I decided to carefully cut the tape only on one side and then down the middle, just in case. Sure enough, I peeked inside and found that the box was completely empty, no styrofoam lining or snake.
I called Steve and notified him immediately of the situation. I'm a pretty trusting person, so even though I can't see how anyone else would have gotten into the box, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. The first thing he asked is if the box was crushed and the snake possibly escaped. I explained to Steve that the box was in near perfect condition and that it didn't appear to have been tampered with, but Steve said that if the styrofoam liner wasn’t there then it must have been crushed during shipping. I explained that I hadn't opened the box all the way, so there's really no way someone could have removed the two-piece molded inner styrofoam box. Steve got quiet and had nothing to say about the box after that, but he said that he would talk to his UPS guy and that he would be in touch.
FYI, The box was made by Uline, so I checked with them to see if the styrofoam should have been six pieces or a two piece styrofoam liner like Pro-Pak boxes come with. According to their website, the box that Steve shipped to me should have contained a two piece molded styrofoam liner.
During the following two days, Steve ignored several phone calls and messages, but finally emailed me on Tuesday, January 10th. From that point on, I did not telephone him again, as I thought it would be wise to keep all correspondence in writing, via email.
Here are all the emails from there on...
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: Message about: SUPER Pastel Male - Great Blushing $7,500
> I spoke with ups today, and they agreed that an empty box would be
> crushed at least part way on a trip to you David. That means only two
> things; the last delivery driver opened the box and took contents,
> which seems highly dubious given the fact that you stated box was not
> played with, or box and snakes arrived to you intact. My driver
> suggested you speak with ups on your end and ask their opinion on what
> to do. Steve
>
My reply...
Steve,
The box not being crushed does not prove that there was a snake or styrofoam liner in the box during shipment. Boxes without styrofoam go through UPS all the time without being crushed. In fact, I even know wholesalers who ship animals without styrofoam in late spring and early fall. Furthermore, the box you sent has 200lb crush rating printed right on the bottom. I called ULINE and confirmed that the crush rating applies to the cardboard single wall box itself, not the styrofoam liner.
I have a good reputation in this hobby/industry and several well known breeders who will attest to that. References include Brian at BHB, Anthony Caponetto, Dr. Jay Owens, Kevin & Kara at NERD, Bob Clark, Mike Wilbanks and many others who would be glad to vouch for me.
Regardless of my solid reputation, there is no way I could have taken the snake and styrofoam liner out of the box because I did not cut all the tape. In addition to that, the shipping label is on top of all the layers of tape, so whoever put the label on that box was the last person who could have gotten into it.
I think anyone would agree that it's highly unlikely someone could have removed the shipping label, cut the box open, removed the contents and then used the exact same tape to reseal the box and then put the label back on top of that.
Your solution is unacceptable. You know as well as I do that UPS is not going to help me recover or reimburse me for a $7,500 snake. If for no other reason than the fact that they don't allow the shipment of snakes.
Your website states that you have a live arrival guarantee and to notify you within 48 hours if there is a problem. Needless to say, the snake did not arrive at all, live or otherwise and I did contact you within the 48 hour time frame.
Like I said, I didn't want this to be confrontational, but I can't let this slide considering the dollar value of the snake I sent you. If this is not resolved by Friday, January 13, I will contact my attorney and local police department in order to persue civil and criminal charges. I will also report this incident (along with photos of the box) on the Fauna Classifieds BOI and to Kingsnake, so that this doesn't happen to anyone else.
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
913.424.4809
His reply...
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Super Pastel
>I would be VERY careful about whom you try to slander. The label was on
>the tape I used, and can easily be pulled off in one piece. Cutting the
>tape is not necessary. Rest assured, it is a two way street out there,
>and It will be my word, and several others who handled the box on my
>end, against just you. If you wish to send the box back, I will
>inspect it to see if I can determine anything. You stated this has
>happened before, and I wonder if ups delivered to you that time also?
>
My reply...
Steve,
Please don't try to intimidate me because that isn't going to happen. First of all, I know that I didn't get the snake, so you're going to have a hard time convincing me that this is somehow my fault. Furthermore, I've been into reptiles a long time and as a general rule of thumb, scammers always try to accuse the other party of being dishonest, they always use the word "slander" and they always have two hundred witnesses who saw them pack the snake. Anyone can say the things you're saying (and they usually do), so if you think that's going to help you get out of this, by all means go right ahead.
By definition, slander is when someone lies about someone else in order to damage their reputation. By contrast, this is a situation where I don't need to lie about anything. Rest assured, if I have to report this on the BOI or elsewhere, I will tell exactly what happened and let the readers draw their own conclusion. You received your snake and I did not, so this is your reputation on the line, not mine.
I have plenty of well known references in this industry too. Many of them know my financial situation, so they know that I wouldn't try to cheat anyone out of a $7,500 snake. To me, this is a matter of principal and if I have to spend all $7,500 to make sure that you don't get away with this, I'm more than willing and able to do so.
I will most certainly not be sending the box back to you because I'll be handing it over to the authorities for them to inspect on Friday afternoon if that's what I have to do. The label is straddling the tape and is affixed to the box on both sides of the tape. Furthermore, the label is scored so that it can't be removed in one piece.
As for the other big loss that I took this year, it was a very different situation. I shipped a snake before the remaining cash balance was paid and I never saw the rest of my money.
Please don't waste anymore time trying to convince me to let this slide. If this is not handled by Friday, I will do exactly what I said in my last email.
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
913.424.4809
His reply....
From: "steven i weissman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Super Pastel
> Now I know why I hate red states like yours so much! You need some
> black people from New Orleans to get the stick out of your asses!
> Probably religious too you gonif.
>
----------------------------------------
Obviously, Steve's last email wasn't worth replying to. Considering the facts, the condition of the box (tape still intact on one side) and the tone of Steve's emails, I think it's clear that Steve hasn't delivered on his live arrival guarantee and has no intention of doing so. As such, I am pursuing all legal avenues to recover my loss and at the very least, to make sure that Steve never gets away with this again.
Thanks for your time,
Sincerely,
David Thomson
www.DTReptiles.com
Mobile 913.424.4809
