thereptileroom = cheat of the month

[watchdog]

these guys are pathetic, their stats are pathetic. Watch how they get a couple of thousand hits in very short periods. half of the site posts come from the mods.

If you cant do it without cheating expect to get exposed


watchdoggie

[shrap]

Just for clarification, which site are you referring to?
The Reptile Rooms ( www.reptilerooms.com ) or The Reptile Room ( www.thereptileroom.org )

[Skunky]

Do hope you are referring to thereptileroom, cause I'm a member of reptile rooms and I can assure you its not fake. They're a highly active forum that I have a tremendous amount of respect for.

[Gary O]

Well Shane, Lets see I can pull the server stats for any site on my servers. The domain thereptileroom.org recieved over 2 Million calls to the domain. Now this does include hotlinked pics and the counters do not count that.


Also had around 28GB of bandwidth used for the month of Jan.

Seems you are barking up the wrong tree here watchdog. You may need to worry about yourself instead of others.

Not sure if you all can view this link but a stat link is here


https://thereptileroom.org/plesk-stat/webstat/

NEXT?

[Skunky]

Hehe.. :)

[Gary O]

Hehe.. :)


lol, smetimes you wonder about people you know. I get a friend telling me about a guy posting that I cheat on fauna. Rich can look up my stats all he wants. am I actie on my board? YEP. An admin should be. Just as Rich is active here.

If Watchdog gets through is day by sitting on the ranking boards and calling out things he thinks he knows about then hey more power to him. lmao

But I have proof to back me up. I use the rankings to tell me how many hits I get. But ask Rich. I think I have 5 duifferent ones and all will show a different number but all within a close range of one another. But it gives you an idea of when your traffic is coming instead of always going through the server. They are only one click away.

[bcfos]

Yawn...

[bcfos]

And for the record that yawn was directed at watchdoggie.. I think the bulk majority or us have better things to do than sit around watching hit stats on sites. Most of us get involved in the sites and contribute in one way or another, some good some not so good. But at least we try. ;)

[Skunky]

Just doesnt make sense that..who actually pays attention to the numbers? Actually, who cares? All I care about is the interaction and discussion..the numbers mean squat.

[Gary O]

You are right Skunky but to a site owner the numbers is what we go by to tell if something works. Say I say the word dumb on my site. That might make people leave. If I say the word cool it may bring them. Stats help you tell if stuff works.

[Skunky]

Hmm, that's interesting, didnt know that. Flip, if you've got a forum the size of fauna, that's got to be one ginormous load of data to sift through!! Kudos to you and Rich!!

[Gary O]

TRR is not even close to fauna. My guess is Fauna pushes around 100 to 150 GB of bandwidth a month. I am not even going to guess the DB size it may be well over a GB maybe even 5GB

[Skunky]

Scary.

[WebSlave]

Actually the topsites scripts are an interesting measure to watch as you make changes on your site. Even watch as activity spikes and wanes because of certain issues taking place in your forums. When ReptiBid had the two headed snake on the auction, their stats went through the roof because of the advertising that one auction brought for them.

And to those of us who might spring for paid advertising, it is extremely helpful to see if our money is well spent or wasted. Yeah, certainly there are scammers in that sort of business as well, if you aren't careful and don't know what to look for.

Certainly some people will cheat, but in reality it is themselves they are cheating. They aren't using the tool as it was designed to be used at all. I believe few people actually use the topsites to in any way "rate" the sites participating there. Does anyone really go to a topsites program thinking I want to see who is on top so I can go there to see what is going on? I doubt it sincerely. Some may use them as a listing of websites to visit, and maybe it is beneficial to be on the front page, but beyond that, when push comes to shove, cheating is just not worth it in terms of the returns you get for the effort expended.

So quite honestly, I think Gary is probably far too busy just running his website to engage in something like sitting in front of the keyboard just to get his hit counter up. That's the kind of stuff I have caught kids doing who just didn't have anything better to do with their time.

The internet is too big, and the ability for browsers to jump so easily from one site to the next, that it doesn't make sense to get worked up over some on line hit counter.

And to be perfectly honest, I had to withdraw my own participation from a few topsites I had this site listed on because the throughput on page displays here was suffering from it. Surprisingly enough (or maybe not really), it didn't affect a thing here concerning traffic or new registrations.

So all in all, it really doesn't matter at all.

[Gary O]

Thanks Rich!

[Dr Owens]

You have GOT to be kidding me. :rolleyes:


Just ignore the guy Gary. He obviously needs a new hobby...a girlfriend might not hurt either.

[soberguy]

The day I find Gary is lieing and cheating is the day I find Foster is down under 180 ;)

[shrap]

Lol... so every post this guy has made here has been nothing more than accusing one site or another of cheating on their stats...... thanks for your contributions, watchdog.

[bcfos]

You have GOT to be kidding me. :rolleyes:


Just ignore the guy Gary. He obviously needs a new hobby...a girlfriend might not hurt either.


Jay... Not meaning to be a horses rear end here but honestly do you think some guy sitting around watching hit stats is actually going to find a girlfriend??

Kind of sad actually if you really think about it.. I envision a lonely guy sitting in a unibomber type shack with a bag of chips, a cola, and two or three computers watching the hit stats.. :hehe:

I could go more into detail but I will leave the rest to everyone's imagination. ;)

[bcfos]

The day I find Gary is lieing and cheating is the day I find Foster is down under 180 ;)


220 buddy... Any less and I look like I need a telethon for feed the children.

[Dr Owens]

Jay... Not meaning to be a horses rear end here but honestly do you think some guy sitting around watching hit stats is actually going to find a girlfriend??
Let's not forget Brian, the term "girlfriend" can be VERY relative...in some cases it might not even be an actual girl. :dgrin:

[Skunky]

lmao!

[Gary O]

Thanks for the posts guys! It means more then you know!

[soberguy]

It's like people think they have free reign to say what they want at another board, just because it's not about that board. Funny the delusions one can find on the internet.

[Dr Owens]

Thanks for the posts guys! It means more then you know!
No problem Gary. You don't deserve that crap...and you most certainly have more important things to do with your time than to have to defend yourself against garbage like this. Just blow it off. ;) :)

[Dr Owens]

Funny the delusions one can find on the internet.And THAT my friends could well be the biggest understatement ever posted on this forum! ;) :rofl:

[bcfos]

Let's not forget Brian, the term "girlfriend" can be VERY relative...in some cases it might not even be an actual girl. :dgrin:


One of those things that make you go Hmmm.... :censored:

If you ever get a chance Jay shoot me an email at bfoster123@bellsouth.net

Just want to catch up with you on some things. ;)

[Chameleon Company]

I think that Post #1 points to one more reason why a full name should be required for every post in the site, lest it be deleted. Not that it would guarantee that the true name was used, but "watchdog" probably has more in common with the aft end of the beast than the end that does the "watching". While this part of Fauna may not be the BOI, anonymous posts that are primarily inflammatory in nature can still cause some mischief. Put another way, its one more filter, and possible excuse, to take down a post or two that serve no positive purpose.

[WebSlave]

I think that Post #1 points to one more reason why a full name should be required for every post in the site, lest it be deleted. Not that it would guarantee that the true name was used, but "watchdog" probably has more in common with the aft end of the beast than the end that does the "watching". While this part of Fauna may not be the BOI, anonymous posts that are primarily inflammatory in nature can still cause some mischief. Put another way, its one more filter, and possible excuse, to take down a post or two that serve no positive purpose.

Although I have toyed with the idea of making all registrations on this site required to have a full name attached to it, it would be completely unenforceable anyway, and probably a fruitless task. But I am seriously considering having it as a requirement to post classified ads here.

More to the point about this thread is that we should be careful to not kill the messenger if we believe he may be carrying info that is incorrect. The next messenger very well could be carrying accurate info, but be very reluctant to present the message if it carries the risk of having his/her head lopped off for the trouble.

[soberguy]

While WebSlave has a point, there's only so much idiocy one can tolerate.

[Chameleon Company]

More to the point about this thread is that we should be careful to not kill the messenger if we believe he may be carrying info that is incorrect.

If I can clarify my concerns a bit. It was not that the thread starter may have had incorrect information or not, it was what I feel was a deliberate mischaracterization of the other forum and its management, or if not deliberate, than an attack on that forum. Between seeing this as the thread starter by "Watchdog":
thereptileroom = cheat of the month with the "thumbs down" icon, and then the perceived need by Gary and others to rebut that statement, I thought I was viewing a BOI thread. While the stated purpose of the BOI is to address the transaction of "goods and merchandise", I would also think that "services" could fit under that umbrella. I also must point out that the subforum header for this feedback page states:Any issues related to the FaunaTopSites listings are welcome to be posted here. If watchdog had begun the thread just pointing out that he had questions about "hit spikes" etc, or any other more objective characterization, then this thread is short. But the way its posted, I think that one of the rules of the site applies:
Posting BOI topics in other forums - 1 point
On February 20, 2005 a payment and verification system was implemented whereby anyone wanting to post on the BOI is now required to have a minimum Participant Level membership in order to do so. Some people may decide to try and circumvent this requirement by posting Board of Inquiry types of threads in other forums where the verification restriction is not in place. Such instances will have the threads deleted as soon as they are located and the poster of said thread assessed this warning. Only the fact that some people may do this accidentally keeps this from being a stiffer penalty rating.
While I highlighted the word "accidentally", I think that the thumbs-down icon, and the word "cheat", in the header show this as a deliberate "no-pay, no ID" circumvention of the BOI. That the replies so quickly came out in objection to the original claim would lend plenty of support to the claim of it being frivolous and contrived as well.
Lastly:The next messenger very well could be carrying accurate info, but be very reluctant to present the message if it carries the risk of having his/her head lopped off for the trouble.
If the rules are clearly stated, and objectively applied and enforced, and the information "accurate" or at least not maliciously fabricated, then how does the application of the rules change anything from the system as we now know and accept it? I think that all members here are sensitive to frivolous and malicious attacks against someone's reputation using this site, and I think that in the minds of many, it would rank as the highest possible abuse of the forum. I think that is a large part of the motivation behind the creation of the specific rule that I cited above. Besides all of the above listed reasons, this individual did post their name as "Shane sixsixsix". This was not an innocent and well-intended messenger. I do not think that this is a borderline call, but that is just IMHO. Thanks.

[Dr Owens]

Jim,
After reading your post I agreed with you. However, the hard part was deciding what kind of warning points the guy qualified for. Quite frankly, IMO 1 warning point for posting a BOI topic in another forum didn't seem sufficient. (I agree with you that this certainly wasn't an "accident"...especially since he posted a similar topic in the past (even though no one seemed to notice). In the end I decided on "Name calling and general derogatory statements" not because it was necessarily the most fitting penalty, but because it is applicable and the number of warning points seem more appropriate given the nature of the infraction (IMO at least).

I will leave it up to Rich as to whether or not he wants to move/remove this topic, or modify my approach to the problem. ;)

[shrap]

Well done, Jim!!

[Chameleon Company]

Thanks Dr. Owens. I don't think that too many would feel that Rich was unfair if he did take it down, although the negative impact of this particular thread was pretty minimal with the rapid rebuttal of the original complaint. I very much think it warranted the fine and suspension. While this individual may not feel the need to fork out $10 to come back, should they choose to resurface under a different name and perhaps attempt to be a bit more subtle in the future, there is the possibility now of checking IP addresses for a track record.

This is one of the more obscure areas of the forum, yet did generate some good views and comments. But whatever precedent is set here could then be used as a guide elsewhere. It helps to refine and tweak the enforcement policies ..... not quite the U.S. Supreme Court, as they have black robes, and the mods are probably attired in a more random fashion!

[Dr Owens]

the mods are probably attired in a more random fashion!
Attired? I only moderate in the nude. :raspberry :rofl:


(I know, I know...now you're going to have to gouge out your mind's eye with a fork. :dgrin: )

[norsmis]

Oh jeeze Jay..... I really didn't need to visualize that........ :slamit: lol...

[Gary O]

Wow...........I am going to say this here..........My thoughts on a few things are changing and it is for the good. THANKS GUYS!!!

[Laura Fopiano]

Attired? I only moderate in the nude. :raspberry :rofl:


(I know, I know...now you're going to have to gouge out your mind's eye with a fork. :dgrin: )


aghhhhhhhhh..... the fork is firmly planted!! Not a pretty picture Jay!! ROTFLMAO


And Gary......you have a cool little sight yourself............isn't it nice to share kudos rather than insults!!

[WebSlave]

Well, there are a lot of gray areas being addressed, and certainly there will be a lot of differing opinions about it. This IS the FaunaTopSites Feedback Forum, is it not? And the description of this forum reads "Any issues related to the FaunaTopSites listings are welcome to be posted here." Please note the word Any. The original poster of this thread apparently had an issue with what he was seeing taking place on FaunaTopSites.com, and surprisingly enough, found this forum in order to post within it. That being said, regardless of the actual content surrounding what he was reporting, this forum is actually the proper place for it. And there are some precedents that I can fall back on to support that determination.

I started this forum for exactly this sort of discussion. Matter of fact, if I recall correctly, some of the original threads I made for this forum were made by myself in order to bring some apparently cheating to light on FaunaTopSites. So I certainly cannot slam someone else for doing exactly what I had done in earlier instances.

However, I do have to agree with Jay that the language used by "watchdog" was over the edge and far too caustic for what I had intended this forum. But I do disagree that this was a BOI topic, as there is no indication whatsoever that this is an issue related to watchdog, or anyone else for that matter, doing "business" with TheReptileRoom.

As for the suggestion to actually remove this thread, sorry, but no. I think nearly everyone here knows my preference to leave the cards laying on the table, no matter what they say, and not remove anything without an exceptionally overriding reason to do so. It has been my experience that even bad information can often germinate some good if allowed to do so.

[Chameleon Company]

Rich, I know that you justified the presence of this thread here when you said the following:
"Any issues related to the FaunaTopSites listings are welcome to be posted here." Please note the word Any.

I am still a little bit confused (and had posted the same verbage) at your conclusion, as while I fully understand the concept of "issues", I also thought that the characterization with the "thumbs-down" etc made it a BOI issue, which may have been a bad assumption on my part. You mention "many gray areas", and I agree, and also realize that they are inevitable. I do not take umbrage with your decision here, though, as the word "any" can end all debate on this thread about suitability.

I believe the root of my confusion is not this thread, but was brought to light by it. To refresh the reader, here's the rule that I referenced in an earlier post:

Posting BOI topics in other forums - 1 point
On February 20, 2005 a payment and verification system was implemented whereby anyone wanting to post on the BOI is now required to have a minimum Participant Level membership in order to do so. Some people may decide to try and circumvent this requirement by posting Board of Inquiry types of threads in other forums where the verification restriction is not in place. Such instances will have the threads deleted as soon as they are located and the poster of said thread assessed this warning. Only the fact that some people may do this accidentally keeps this from being a stiffer penalty rating.

My question is: What is a BOI type of thread? Not as the debate applies to this thread, as you explained that. I have reread the rules for posting on the BOI twice today. While there is much dialogue there about the uses and values to be had in the BOI as a source, rules of conduct, penalties, etc., I truly saw no definition or rule for what is and is not BOI content, and which would then be used as a gauge for imposing the above penalty. Once a thread is identified as having broken this rule, the penalty includes "Such instances will have the threads deleted as soon as they are located ..." There are also several characterizations of the seriousness of BOI posts, signatures, etc, to include this one which I like:
......so if you are not willing to stand up, state your claim, and put your name on it, then I'm not interested in providing you the space to make anonymous accusations. Such messages will be deleted as deemed appropriate in the individual circumstances surrounding the message.

I don't know if you see it as a problem. If you do, my recommendation would that any issue which raises a question of integrity about any entity or business, ie good guy, bad guy, need info, deal gone bad, bad ethics, etc, be required to be a BOI thread. This could be with regards to animals, dry-goods, services, husbandry ethics, etc. Some might question the need to require "good guy" posts to be on the BOI, for if a "good guy" post stays all good, then there is no foul. But as mentioned by another post in this thread, they often attract bad comments.

I believe that many would agree with me. I think its important because as is alluded to in the above quote, the BOI requires ID, and this would be the forum for accusations, and anonymity is not allowed there. Even more importantly, any poster there is vested for at least $10, and therefore also has more incentive to not make baseless accusations or characterizations, and also to play by the rules. Basically, I am para-phrasing your reasons listed in the rules for going to a fee and requiring full name ID. In the big scheme of things, all of this is fairly minor, and may not be worth addressing anytime soon, if at all. This thread did however, raise the context for it. If my concerns are answered in the site, and I just missed them, than please redirect me, and accept my apologies. I am not getting any sharper with age!

[DThomas]

Wow...........I am going to say this here..........My thoughts on a few things are changing and it is for the good. THANKS GUYS!!!
All differences aside, what's right is right Gary. No one has ever accussed you of dishonesty before that I can remember and I am in agreement with everyone else, it's not happening here.

[Gary O]

Thanks man.

Also I do not mind at all this thread stays and stays the way it was posted. People will open it and read it, and see the truth.

[bcfos]

Jim,
After reading your post I agreed with you. However, the hard part was deciding what kind of warning points the guy qualified for. Quite frankly, IMO 1 warning point for posting a BOI topic in another forum didn't seem sufficient. (I agree with you that this certainly wasn't an "accident"...especially since he posted a similar topic in the past (even though no one seemed to notice). In the end I decided on "Name calling and general derogatory statements" not because it was necessarily the most fitting penalty, but because it is applicable and the number of warning points seem more appropriate given the nature of the infraction (IMO at least).

I will leave it up to Rich as to whether or not he wants to move/remove this topic, or modify my approach to the problem. ;)


Well you know being that I see worse every day I really didn't see it as name calling. But then again I haven't been around here much so I am really jaded on the whole name calling issue.

Though I do understand that if you do call someone a name you are fined and suspended. Not a bad concept really as it will encourage more to post. Though I bet a lot of people have bitten through their tounge's due to this (myself being included in that group). Kind of neat trying to tread lightly and keep things on the up and up though, makes me think and knock some cobwebs off the old grey matter. ;)

[FCesaro]

Garbage deleted. I don't think anyone really needed to read that stuff here.

[Laura Fopiano]

I would suspect troll, but won't out and out say it...........

[Chameleon Company]

Another one bites the dust. Could this thread rate as "killing two birds with one stone?" Going for three ..... "here kitty kitty" ......

[Laura Fopiano]

Another one bites the dust. Could this thread rate as "killing two birds with one stone?" Going for three ..... "here kitty kitty" ......


Kitty, Kitty, Bang, Bang............

[BufoToxin]

wonderful examples of their sources.

[Laura Fopiano]

Even quoted, that sort of language was an eyesore. So excuse me if I remove it. - WebSlave





Nice launguage, but this isn't the "war room"!!!!!

[psilocybe]

Please do not judge TRR on the postings of Fcesaro. His post was not encouraged nor condoned by ANY of the members or staff on TRR. While we cannot control what members of our site do on other sites, we do not encourage this kind of behavior from them AT ALL.

[BufoToxin]

I disagree. The Reptile Room is filled with posts just like that one. One only has to log into the war room (which makes for 99% of their hits) to see posts like this one over and over again on a daily basis.

[soberguy]

While TRR was initially known for the War Room, it has become much, much more than that. Just like Fauna. It used to be only about the BOI. But now there is much more.

[psilocybe]

I disagree. The Reptile Room is filled with posts just like that one. One only has to log into the war room (which makes for 99% of their hits) to see posts like this one over and over again on a daily basis.

The War Room is an elective feature of TRR. You must REQUEST to view it, and you must be over 18. The only people who can view or post in the War Room are those that ASKED to be allowed to.

We have MANY other forums that are very active, and family friendly. Again, Fcesaros post was not encouraged, nor condoned by any of the staff on TRR. However, we cannot control what they say or do on other sites.

[BufoToxin]

I was reading it a few days ago. Perhaps a week at most. It was not even in my own home but my nieghbor's, because he finds the banter humorous. He was pointing out some graphic porn picture, and I decided to click around. When I came to the part on one particular thread where the name calling and mindless insults began I clicked another thread and the same thing was happening there.
Yes, I myself did sign up a while ago to view the war room because things seemed funny at the time. But that gets old when you take this hobby seriously. And you never look at the people involved the same again. It seems anyone with any type of respectability either never posts there or runs as soon as they see what it's about.
I know the site is trying to get past the whole war room stigma but when staff there is using communication like obscene pictures, back stabbing, cursing, and such horrible grammar this will never happen. IThat site seems to attract and hold people that no other site wants or hears from elsewhere.

[evil]

I was reading it a few days ago. Perhaps a week at most. It was not even in my own home but my nieghbor's, because he finds the banter humorous. He was pointing out some graphic porn picture, and I decided to click around. When I came to the part on one particular thread where the name calling and mindless insults began I clicked another thread and the same thing was happening there.
Yes, I myself did sign up a while ago to view the war room because things seemed funny at the time. But that gets old when you take this hobby seriously. And you never look at the people involved the same again. It seems anyone with any type of respectability either never posts there or runs as soon as they see what it's about.
I know the site is trying to get past the whole war room stigma but when staff there is using communication like obscene pictures, back stabbing, cursing, and such horrible grammar this will never happen. IThat site seems to attract and hold people that no other site wants or hears from elsewhere.
perfectly said. i couldn't agree more.

[Gary O]

HMMMMMM

Lets see

1) You must ask to even view the war room. 211 members of my 780+ are war room members. This is something that many many other sites are trying no themselves. Sorry Rich but take Hell here. Same thing. What does it do for me. KEEPS THE BS OFF THE REST OF THE SITE? Do you know that the rest of the forum rarely has issues as the war members know they have the war room.

There are TONS of herp related sites now with a war room type forum...........

The differense is unless a friend tells you about it you will not even know it is there on TRR. It is hidden from site. What I think is people look for a way to slam TRR and that is really the only way.

I have a site that allows more freedom then many others ot there. does this make all other forums bad? NO not at all. just means TRR allows you a bit more freedom. Most have forgotten about freedom.

But I do not get someone that complains about the war room and they ASKED to get in. That would be just like somone paying Rich for hell then telling him he is crap for it. don't you think?

But everything in the war room is TOTALLY hidden unless YOU ask.

[Laura Fopiano]

HMMMMMM

Lets see

1) You must ask to even view the war room. 211 members of my 780+ are war room members. This is something that many many other sites are trying no themselves. Sorry Rich but take Hell here. Same thing. What does it do for me. KEEPS THE BS OFF THE REST OF THE SITE? Do you know that the rest of the forum rarely has issues as the war members know they have the war room.

There are TONS of herp related sites now with a war room type forum...........

The differense is unless a friend tells you about it you will not even know it is there on TRR. It is hidden from site. What I think is people look for a way to slam TRR and that is really the only way.

I have a site that allows more freedom then many others ot there. does this make all other forums bad? NO not at all. just means TRR allows you a bit more freedom. Most have forgotten about freedom.

But I do not get someone that complains about the war room and they ASKED to get in. That would be just like somone paying Rich for hell then


telling him he is crap for it. don't you think?

But everything in the war room is TOTALLY hidden unless YOU ask.


No worries here darlin......I love your sight and am also a member.........

Those who pick on other's and are willing to put down other's for being differerent are not worthy of TRR or this sight for that matter..........

[BufoToxin]

Your absolutely correct.
As I said in my previous post, I did ask to gain war room entrance. I also said that it got old because I feel the site has little more to offer then that section. Understand I am just posting my opinion here. I am sure not everyone likes every site they visit. I just saw a thread here at Fauna that ironically gave me an arena to post my thoughts. Perhaps because I am not slinging insults and bizarre porno at you you are becoming confused Gary.

[bcfos]

I was reading it a few days ago. Perhaps a week at most. It was not even in my own home but my nieghbor's, because he finds the banter humorous. He was pointing out some graphic porn picture, and I decided to click around. When I came to the part on one particular thread where the name calling and mindless insults began I clicked another thread and the same thing was happening there.
Yes, I myself did sign up a while ago to view the war room because things seemed funny at the time. But that gets old when you take this hobby seriously. And you never look at the people involved the same again. It seems anyone with any type of respectability either never posts there or runs as soon as they see what it's about.
I know the site is trying to get past the whole war room stigma but when staff there is using communication like obscene pictures, back stabbing, cursing, and such horrible grammar this will never happen. IThat site seems to attract and hold people that no other site wants or hears from elsewhere.


Some what true but also false. The War Room came about as a forum where people could vent, post what they wanted, and cause general unmoderated general disruption without fear of retribution for violating any number of rules which are considered against TOS of pretty much every site around. It has it's up side and down side but honestly it is just the internet and if you take something which is said by someone on the internet personal you really need to have a long period of personal reflection.

Also if you want to see it you have to ask for it. So in asking are you going to group yourself with every single war room member? No and if you do, once again long time for personal reflection. ;)

And out of 772 members only 213 have requested to even be part of the war room. That leaves 559 members who have chosen not to be part of that group. As for forum views it does rank highest, but also I contribute that to the "rubber neck" factor. Everyone by nature wants to see the carnage and will look multiple times before driving on.

As for Frank. Anyone who knows him from the old days of Bob Clark Forums knows all too well Frank speaks his mind and what he feels without holding back. Some of the old timers from Bob Clark Forums can remember the "Get Abused By Frank" forum which was a riot to read. People actually posted there asking to get abused by Frank. TRR does not try to control members as to where they post or what they may post in other fourms. There was no prodding behind the scenes to get him to come here and act in a disruptive manner, as he did it on his own accord. I didn't even know about it till about an hour ago and what ever he posted is deleted. Is what he did right? No, but grouping an entire forum for one members actions is not exactly right either. One has to remember the 559 members who have absolutely nothing to do with the war room at all. Plus as stated in another post here the war room is just what we were known for in the beginning much like Fauna was known for the BOI. People came to Fauna for the BOI and found other things they liked and stayed. Same with TRR.

And trust me it isn't easy keeping what goes on in the war rooms there where it belongs and out of the other general forums. That has given me a new found respect for staff on other sites like here where they do not allow any type of content that the war room allows anywhere at all. Rich and his staff have to be respected because it takes a lot of work dealing with all the complaints and issues which come up daily.

[Gary O]

No worries here darlin......I love your sight and am also a member.........

Those who pick on other's and are willing to put down other's for being differerent are not worthy of TRR or this sight for that matter..........


Thanks this means a lot. I like to think my name carries the honest and "good guy" tag.


To BufoToxin

I still do not get it. The war room has nothing to do with herps really. If you do not like it or get bored, do not read it. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT and post in other sections. Join a herp group. Donate to a herp society that needs your help. But to complain and put down a site for a "VIP" or a request forum when you really do not know the making behind TRR is kinda foolish.

I will say I do not agree with everything posted in the war room. But I can not say this can be posted and that can not in an unmoderated forum. If it does not break a law it is good to go. Freedom is something else. I may get pset about something posted or something may get "old" to me but I do not have to read it then huh?

I will say I do not agree with somethings Rich does here. I have posted them. But not once did I break his TOS when I posted. I did remove my name for awhile after the paid thing. But again there was an issue with a person using my name and selling venomoids. Everyone knows where I stand on that and Rich allowed me to post on that thread without paying. Not once but a few times. THat was really nice of him.

Do I and Rich agree on everything? NO.

People forget a forum is not what mods make it or the admins make it. A site like this one, TRR, RTB, BCF and others are what the members make it. It is so easy to complain. SHOOT I use to do a lot of it. But it is different to say I am not going to complain but I will help make the change. That is what makes a difference........................

I am seeing names on this thread that I thought HATED my guts, now sticking up for me. Then I am seeing names that I have never seen before slamming me. Hey it is all good. Hold your opinions dear to you. Voice them when ever you can. Just remember the person you tell them to will also tell you their opinions. You have to have the open mind to listen to what their opinions mean to them also.

The emails I get daily are huge to me and I get a lot. I get my hate mail still lol. I have gotten death threats. I ask you this. What is worse. Me allowing members to say and post what they want. Or people threatening my life becuase I allow people to voice their opinions?

I say hey it is all good. Love me hate me. I am still going to follow the path I believe. If not I am cheating myself.

[Gary O]

I also think this is getting a bit off topic. Anyone is free to PM me or contact me to discuss this.

Thanks everyone.

[WebSlave]

I would like to point out that the internet is an awfully big place, yet the paths to get to any part of it are extremely short. Everyone who sets up a website can run it however they choose to do so, within the limits of the law. If some website offers you something there that you want, then by all means, go there to get it. If any part of any site is not to your liking, then you can just use the parts of it that do meet your approval, or else just don't go there at all. I have been beat up many times over this simple fact when someone wants to deepfry my butt because of what my goals are for this site and I point out to them that they don't HAVE to stay here. It is NOT trying to chase anyone away at all. It is simply pointing out something that really should be obvious to nearly everyone.

Gary has found, just as I have, that goals will change and plans will need to be modified, often on the fly, to try to meet ever changing needs and requirements that come down the pike. Trying to please everyone is impossible to do. Even coming up with a solution to please a majority (much less catch their attention) is extremely difficult. Most people will not indicate what they want until you have expended time, money and effort to make it something they DON'T want. Ninety percent of your headaches will be caused by less then one percent of what you have on your website. And when you try to fix that one percent, it only increases the headaches as one fixed problem generates two more problems ....... :ack2:

Only someone who has never done this sort of thing could every think it is a simple task to do.

Now, that being said, I would just like to intervene at this time to remind everyone that the forum this thread is posted on is a FEEDBACK forum for FAUNATOPSITES issues. It is not a forum intended to be used to discuss policies and procedures of any site that happens to be on the FAUNATOPSITES listing. If anyone does wish to discuss some other website, then there is one set up on this site just for such a purpose. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=547

[bcfos]

Sorry about that Rich.. You know I am the "off topic" king at times.. :ack2:

[WebSlave]

No worries. It just appeared that this thread was edging towards going out of control.

[nicolai]

Everyones got to remember that one site is never going to cover all the bases and be active all the time. This is why we all see each other at other forums all the time. I am a member here as well as TRR and TSE and a few others and everyone has something to offer reptile enthusiasts in one way or another. I say "the more the Merrier!!!". Every site has its trolls and as long as they get weeded out the rest of us can enjoy each others company and maybe even have a little fun now and then.

[crazycorn]

Of course everyone knows I like to get my opinions on topics that matter to me so here it goes. I find these little facts funny myself:
Join Date: 02-03-2006
Total Posts: 4 (4 posts per day) <All in this thread
Where did you hear about FaunaClassifieds?:
trr bad mouthing this site. I figured if trr hated you , you must be great. Hmm guessing a site is great only by the bad mouthing of others if there was any, sounds like a rash and infalmed devision to me, just an axe to grind?
Full Name: TJR < What can't sign your name so we know who you are?

perfectly said. i couldn't agree more.
Funny louise, you used to love TRR until had majorly differing opinion with someone and went over the line, atleast that is what I saw. What about all those deleted posts due to verbal abuse and cussing? You were even a mod! Gotta love holding a bias....

[crazycorn]

I agree with everything said in thread, or atleast most of it. You won't find a more stand up guy then Gray he is very willing to listen and help if a problem should occur. TRR is there, use it if you like or leave if you don't, simply put. Why grind an axe over a differing OPINION. JMO though.

[coyote]

What causes me concern is that there will be people who will only read this thread title and never go past it to read what has been posted. Their opinion will be set aftter having only read the title. That's lousy.

[WebSlave]

What causes me concern is that there will be people who will only read this thread title and never go past it to read what has been posted. Their opinion will be set aftter having only read the title. That's lousy.

Sorry, but I disagree. From what I have seen, most people love to see a train wreck, so they WILL read the entire thread, hoping to see "blood and guts" spilled. Or they will read up to the point, at least, where they realize that it isn't a train wreck after all. Take a look at the BOI and the number of views "bad guy" threads get when compared to "good guy" threads.

[Chameleon Company]

It is however, the scenario that occurs often in the BOI, and I believe one of the root reasons for Rich deciding to raise the level of accountability there, with paid membership, full name, and enforced rules. The BOI is littered with "bad guy" posts where you sometimes have to read 2-5 pages onto it to find out that the "bad guy" is a "good guy" and that the thread starter might be a little less honorable. I made my case earlier that if the thread starter's issue involves a question of integrity or character, regardless of the rest of the topic, that should be the trip-wire to require it to be a BOI thread. Its an inexact science, and there will always be gray areas, as Rich mentioned. Having been the target of a more than one "bad guy" BOI thread under the old standards (I was vindicated after several pages, IMHO), and I believe speaking for all who have been the subject of questionable threads, while we wish such threads never started, we at least want it in the BOI so as to bring the highest level of accountability afforded by this site.

I think that Rich's point:
Sorry, but I disagree. From what I have seen, most people love to see a train wreck, so they WILL read the entire thread, hoping to see "blood and guts" spilled. Or they will read up to the point, at least, where they realize that it isn't a train wreck after all. Take a look at the BOI and the number of views "bad guy" threads get when compared to "good guy" threads.
..... cannot be argued. It is certainly consistent with the reasons some sites allow a wide open "War Room", or the old BOI. The "new BOI" has its advantages, as even a train wreck can get too ugly, and turn into what we used to call in the service an "abortion". I am going to add a concern about Rich's view that I think always deserves consideration, and which gets back to your view Marjee. I agree with Rich that in an active "train-wreck" thread, virtually all following it will be aware of the twists and turns it takes, as it is entertaining reading, and readers will stayed "glued to their sets". The recent thread started by "Critical Bill" which led to his downfall is a perfect example of a train-wreck that changed directions, but stayed a train-wreck, and held the audience long enough to see that the initial post was not quite fair. But if someone comes here to do a search on someone who was the topic of several bad-guy threads that ended up with the tables turned on the thread starter, I do not take it for granted that they will read far enough to find the whole picture, if a good rebuttal was made to the initial post, but is on page 3 (or post 20, etc). I accept that as the nature of the BOI, and will be the first to acknowledge that the "new BOI" addresses the problem of the unsubstantiated and malicious attacks to the extent that a measure of control can be applied. I don't know if character attacks flare up much back in some of the other forums here, but would hope that if they do, they would be scrutinized as a BOI thread. While most of the rules of conduct for the BOI could be applied, the accountability inherent with a being a paid member would not govern the posts of non-paid members who could still make a malicious attack with relative impugnity. I think we have to just trust Rich and the Mod's when those occasions arise.

[evil]

Funny louise, you used to love TRR until had majorly differing opinion with someone and went over the line, atleast that is what I saw. What about all those deleted posts due to verbal abuse and cussing? You were even a mod! Gotta love holding a bias....
i use to love my X husband too. and as for deleted posts i dont know what you mean???

[BufoToxin]

continued.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75357

[WebSlave]

Rich, I know that you justified the presence of this thread here when you said the following:


I am still a little bit confused (and had posted the same verbage) at your conclusion, as while I fully understand the concept of "issues", I also thought that the characterization with the "thumbs-down" etc made it a BOI issue, which may have been a bad assumption on my part. You mention "many gray areas", and I agree, and also realize that they are inevitable. I do not take umbrage with your decision here, though, as the word "any" can end all debate on this thread about suitability.

I believe the root of my confusion is not this thread, but was brought to light by it. To refresh the reader, here's the rule that I referenced in an earlier post:



My question is: What is a BOI type of thread? Not as the debate applies to this thread, as you explained that. I have reread the rules for posting on the BOI twice today. While there is much dialogue there about the uses and values to be had in the BOI as a source, rules of conduct, penalties, etc., I truly saw no definition or rule for what is and is not BOI content, and which would then be used as a gauge for imposing the above penalty. Once a thread is identified as having broken this rule, the penalty includes "Such instances will have the threads deleted as soon as they are located ..." There are also several characterizations of the seriousness of BOI posts, signatures, etc, to include this one which I like:


I don't know if you see it as a problem. If you do, my recommendation would that any issue which raises a question of integrity about any entity or business, ie good guy, bad guy, need info, deal gone bad, bad ethics, etc, be required to be a BOI thread. This could be with regards to animals, dry-goods, services, husbandry ethics, etc. Some might question the need to require "good guy" posts to be on the BOI, for if a "good guy" post stays all good, then there is no foul. But as mentioned by another post in this thread, they often attract bad comments.

I believe that many would agree with me. I think its important because as is alluded to in the above quote, the BOI requires ID, and this would be the forum for accusations, and anonymity is not allowed there. Even more importantly, any poster there is vested for at least $10, and therefore also has more incentive to not make baseless accusations or characterizations, and also to play by the rules. Basically, I am para-phrasing your reasons listed in the rules for going to a fee and requiring full name ID. In the big scheme of things, all of this is fairly minor, and may not be worth addressing anytime soon, if at all. This thread did however, raise the context for it. If my concerns are answered in the site, and I just missed them, than please redirect me, and accept my apologies. I am not getting any sharper with age!

Sorry about the delay in addressing this. It covers a lot of ground, and much of it I still don't have time to cover but feel it warrants at least a short answer.

Yes, I fully realized that locking down the BOI could have been the equivalent of trying to strangle a balloon. Squeezing one area just makes it pop out bigger in another, with nothing accomplished except wasted energy and time. But in a nut shell, a BOI type of thread is one that is targeted towards a business or person engaging in business, and the issue at hand is concerning BUSINESS. Posting a thread about someone not liking another individual because of personal reasons (as long as not running afoul of the stipulations concerning how conversations will be conducted on this site) is NOT a BOI type of thread. Nor is one concerning another website, when there is no issue involving the trading of services or money. Now when a person might discuss a product, be it a live animal, something they broker or act as a reseller, or something they manufacture themselves, then it gets to be more of a gray area. Especially when the product is something that is manufactured by a person or company, and the adjectives used to describe such a product may very well be a reflection on the company or business, rather then the actual product itself (which in some cases, may be inseparable). This definition has been solidifying over time, and I am certain you will be able to point out exceptions all over the place.

So what would be the solution to such a dilemma? Obviously locking down any forum where the possibility of this sort of abuse is likely via the same method that the BOI was handled would work. But quite frankly, I do not believe it is a feasible plan. Not at this time, and perhaps not at all. In a case like this, I would prefer to handle it in a knee jerk fashion, responding to complaints about it becoming a major problem and concern, and not putting on the bandaid before there has been any appreciable damage done. If it becomes a problem, then I will deal with it accordingly, and hopefully effectively. But at this point, my opinion is that it is a non-issue.

Hope that addresses it a bit. Spent more time and made it longer then I had intended, however....... :rolleyes:

[Chameleon Company]

I do appreciate the time you took with the information, and think it a valuable perspective for all to see who use the BOI. As I gave it some thought myself, in part with how this thread was unfolding, I had pretty much come to the same conclusion that you state here:
In a case like this, I would prefer to handle it in a knee jerk fashion, responding to complaints about it becoming a major problem and concern, and not putting on the bandaid before there has been any appreciable damage done.
On a somewhat related note, a few of us are in part scratching our heads at the little spat that has emerged from this thread, and in part seeing the BOI-of-old as folks with no real accountability, name, vested interest, etc., decide to have a bit of a tit-for-tat that was mercifully continued in another part of the site. I feel fortunate to be able to claim ignorance as to whatever has them so uptight!

[Denisebme]

And out of 772 members only 213 have requested to even be part of the war room. That leaves 559 members who have chosen not to be part of that group. As for forum views it does rank highest, but also I contribute that to the "rubber neck" factor. Everyone by nature wants to see the carnage and will look multiple times before driving on.

As for Frank. Anyone who knows him from the old days of Bob Clark Forums knows all too well Frank speaks his mind and what he feels without holding back. Some of the old timers from Bob Clark Forums can remember the "Get Abused By Frank" forum which was a riot to read. People actually posted there asking to get abused by Frank. TRR does not try to control members as to where they post or what they may post in other fourms. There was no prodding behind the scenes to get him to come here and act in a disruptive manner, as he did it on his own accord. I didn't even know about it till about an hour ago and what ever he posted is deleted. Is what he did right? No, but grouping an entire forum for one members actions is not exactly right either. One has to remember the 559 members who have absolutely nothing to do with the war room at all. Plus as stated in another post here the war room is just what we were known for in the beginning much like Fauna was known for the BOI. People came to Fauna for the BOI and found other things they liked and stayed. Same with TRR.

And trust me it isn't easy keeping what goes on in the war rooms there where it belongs and out of the other general forums. That has given me a new found respect for staff on other sites like here where they do not allow any type of content that the war room allows anywhere at all. Rich and his staff have to be respected because it takes a lot of work dealing with all the complaints and issues which come up daily.

First off, I have to say that not only am I a member of fauna, I am also a member of TRR. I think that what Rich has done here on Fauna is admirable, and I can not say enough positive about this forum.
I'm also a fan of TRR. Not because of the "war" room, though I am a member of it, as I am "hell" here. I truly like Gary, he's real, and a genuine nice guy. His site is small, very personal, and with the exception of "war", which I don't often read, very friendly.
I also know Frank (FCesaro) personally, I bought a snake from him, and I used to work with him. It's a small world. Yes, he's brash and his comments here were completely inappropriate, but he's a good guy.
There are quite a few good sites on the net, TRR brings something very different to the table, and I respect that. Fauna and the BOI are unique, and I can't imagine anyone being able to do it as well and Rick and crew, and IMO, Fauna is probably the best resource on the net for the hobbyist/breeder.
It's good to see Rich and Gary in the same forum, and showing support for each other. Both of you guys are class acts!

[Fatman608]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.

[lucille]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.


How dare you say you are a nobody!!! You are a Fauna contributor, you post here, you are a somebody in my book (and you are from Texas too :) )

[Gary O]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.


Bro does not matter where you are a member of or anything else. YOur opinion matters no matter what. ANd I agree with your statement about all sites offer something. Becuase they all do. Topsites, I again agree. They are a tool for the honest admins to judge when and how traffic comes.

[bigdogg]

Hey I would watch what u say watchdog you have no clue what TRR does if that is what u are talkin about

[psilocybe]

perfectly said. i couldn't agree more.

Funny Louise, because if I remember correctly, you were quite active in the War Rooms while a member at TRR. In fact, you would blindly inject yourself into threads you had absolutely no clue about, spouting your innane 3rd grade nonsense simply because you could. When a few members of TRR finally got tired of your brainless posts, completely void of any sense or reason, and confronted you with it, you cried foul and started crying about how horrible TRR is...you Louise, are a prime example of a hypocrite, and trust me, no one at TRR is missing your senseless babble.

[bcfos]

Funny Louise, because if I remember correctly, you were quite active in the War Rooms while a member at TRR. In fact, you would blindly inject yourself into threads you had absolutely no clue about, spouting your innane 3rd grade nonsense simply because you could. When a few members of TRR finally got tired of your brainless posts, completely void of any sense or reason, and confronted you with it, you cried foul and started crying about how horrible TRR is...you Louise, are a prime example of a hypocrite, and trust me, no one at TRR is missing your senseless babble.


Am I a friggin door mat here?? What did I say about respecting other forums rules?? :bandhead0

Come on guys if you are going to reply keep it within the TOS here please.

[Dr Owens]

Am I a friggin door mat here?? What did I say about respecting other forums rules?? :bandhead0

Come on guys if you are going to reply keep it within the TOS here please.I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thought that post was low class (not to mention inappropriate). :rolleyes:

[SPJ]

I think it's about time to lock this thread since it has already been shown that TRR is not cheating on the number of hits it gets.

[WebSlave]

I agree. Since the original poster has been suspended, and probably not coming back, and the discussion doesn't appear to need to go back to the original topic, then I see no reason to keep it open. If someone strongly disagrees and has a very good reason for me to reopen it, then let me know, please.