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Venomoid PM???

S

Steve Hamm

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Don't know if this is the right place to put this but I thought all of you might be interested in this.I got a PM from this guy by the name of Don Mcdougel screen name I thinks is fedupdon don't really know what thats supposed to mean.Anyways he PM'd me about Venomoids telling me it wasn't cruel to butcher the poor animals that it was just like getting a cat or dog fixed.I am wondering why he PM'd me,did any one else get a PM from him?I copy and pasted the PM for all of you to see,maybe he got me confused with someone else,either way I didn't care for the message cause I am not a Venomoid fan.

:toiletcla Private Message: VENOMOID
02-12-2006, 01:15 AM
fedupdon
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Watauga Texas
Age: 48
Posts: 3
Name : don mcdougal
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Warning Level: 0 VENOMOID

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The main reason i was told is because in most cities it against the law to keep venomous. they vet i spoke with says thatis like nutterring a dog or cat dose not harm its not torture if done correctly just thought you might be interrested in this opion
 
Steve Hamm said:
The main reason i was told is because in most cities it against the law to keep venomous.
Click to expand...
A venomoid snake is still considered venomous in EVERY city so that point is moot.

Steve Hamm said:
they vet i spoke with says thatis like nutterring a dog or cat dose not harm its not torture if done correctly just thought you might be interrested in this opion
Click to expand...
When an animal is neutered, it can no longer reproduce. Does that mean a venomoid snake can no longer reproduce? No, therefore it's not "like nutterring a dog or cag" now is it?

nuttering - that has to be the funniest misspelling of a word I've read lately.
 
Well, I haven't heard of anyone else that got a smilar PM, Steve....I know I didn't.

But if I had, I would have been MORE than happy to share my views on the whole disgusting idea. ;)
 
Venomoid

Thanks i was looking for opinions on what this vet had said. i don't approve of any kind of surgery. he claims that the procedure has been improved to the point that it is no longer the butcher job that it used to be . My local
animal control officer stated as long as there was papers proving it had been fixed and not allowed to bred then it could be kept, Steve im sorry i pm you your name was given as some who would be willing to comment on this procedure,
 
fedupdon said:
Thanks i was looking for opinions on what this vet had said. i don't approve of any kind of surgery. he claims that the procedure has been improved to the point that it is no longer the butcher job that it used to be . My local
animal control officer stated as long as there was papers proving it had been fixed and not allowed to bred then it could be kept, Steve im sorry i pm you your name was given as some who would be willing to comment on this procedure,
Click to expand...


Sorry but even the state of Florida who has the (IMO) best venomous laws set up and the best system of inspections considers "voids" venomous. So your animal control officer is like most of them not very well informed due to the fact they rarely deal with reptiles at all.

The key to this whole situation is education. Education on the mortality rates of snakes which this surgery is preformed on, education on how some "venomoid" snakes have in fact shown venom still somehow being produced, and education that just having a "cool looking snake" isn't doing the hobby any good if you do not know how to properly take care of its needs.
 
Thanks
ive already decided not to take the snake after reading your replys and talking with
the zoo its still to much of a risk. the vet is the one who did the surgey and the snake is over 3yroks and is a common snake in thus aera. have not got a answer from the TP&W. it might help if someone could post how they do this procdure . some stated they still venomous please explain
 
There is a vet that frequents the hamburg and pottstown reptile shows with his venemoids and swears by them and i have seen him sell a lot of snakes at the shows. I have never kept venemoids and know little about them other then there seems to be a market for them. PA fish and wildlife were at his table at the last show talking to him (appently they know him well) ansd asking him how busines was and stuff like that. I asked the F & W guys what they thought about venemoids and they thought they were a bad idea years ago because no one knew how to devenomise properly but said this guy specializes in it and is well know for being one of the best (cant think of his name but someone that goes to those shows regularly will pop on this thread with his name). He offered to show me one but i declined as i didnt feel comfortable about holding one. I am not one to judge anyone for what they keep and what people do with thier own animals I just prefer to stay on the safe side and not hold a venemous snake even if it is supposedly devenomised. I think this is a contreversy that will go on for years and years.
Look at all of us bearded dragon keepers that never knew beardeds had venom glands !! Are we all going to get rid of them just in case??? We all live and learn!!
 
If this doctor knows his stuff, than the ducts, and the glands will be removed completely, and it will in theory be an affective voiding.
However, A HUGE AMOUNT are done in basements by Dr. Frankenstein(s) and not complete. They merely snip the duct and they have been known to regenerate. They do not always use sterile environment and death is a common occurance for the reptile. Check this out...........

Dr. Frankenstein in Action


Rick
 
i do not agree with the VENOMIOD SURGERY. but if is done correctly it usually dosent have any affect's on the snakes life. the main reason i dont agree with venomiod's is it is making people WANT TO HANDLE HOTS. if you want a venomous snake than you must know the responsiblities and the danger's of owning a venomous snake. insted of buying a venomoid why dont you get a boa or python. venomous snakes use their venom for feeding and a defence if neccary. so why would you take that away. the curator of reptiles at the philla zoo said to me "VINNY WHY DONT YOU CONCIDER A VENOMIOD SO YOU WONT HALF TO DEAL WITH THE DANGERS OF BEING ENVENOMATED" and i replyied why dont you keep venomiods here at the zoo. and he didnt say anythng at first. then he said we dont beleve in venomoid's here and i was like ok than why did you just tell me to take them under consideration. im just saying if you want to work with hot's than let the snake be hot. if not get a non-venomous snake.. thanks for reading..
 
Maybe been said >?

Many states and or townships treats venomoids as venomous within the law. I know of a lady that had a venomoid in a city district that got found out and the law came down on her. AND she was made to remove some other species of snakes either because of size of the city law or whatever.
 
old guy said:
Many states and or townships treats venomoids as venomous within the law. I know of a lady that had a venomoid in a city district that got found out and the law came down on her. AND she was made to remove some other species of snakes either because of size of the city law or whatever.
Click to expand...

I have not kept hots for some time, but I wasn't aware that the law even see's a difference in the two anywhere. Perhaps I am way off here, and things have changed, but it used to be void, or not, it is a venomous reptile by species.
Of course, it's impossible to know "all" the laws involving this since a state may say it's cool, but a province says no within the same state. Makes this stuff hard to follow.

Some hots rely on the enzymes created in the venom to aid in the digestive process as well. Another good reason for not voiding.

Rick
 
it HAS been some time

since I heard of difference in the legality of being able to keep a venomoid versus an still producing venom hot in specific states or cities. So I MAY be off here. I guess when one could it was paper work or documentation to prove. I wonder how my state will look at this with the state wide consideration of banning hots soon ( if it happens . Kansas ). Probably outlaw venomoids also ? On the enzyme of venoms in order to aid in digestion > I think the jury is still out on this since there has been venomoids in the hobby for years. I would think and what i know ( keeping hots ) and reading that the enzyme deal is part of the natural process of digestion is part of the deal but ................
 
Well, perhaps "rely on enzymes" is a bit over doing it since many voids have proven to live with out them. I guess from My point of view, are they fully digesting? Does it take longer? When a human has no digestive enzyme (or not enough) we get heart burn. We may still digest, but not very comfortably. I guess I liken the two to be similar in My way of thinking.

As for the legalities involved.........I am sure that someone, somewhere will try to say "it's legal because it's a void and no longer venomous", but the state will merely amend to suit what they want done. That seems to be the norm.

The fact is, as long as you got these "cowboy" type people who practice unsafe handling, or free handling because they are voided, we will continue to have envenomations, and the laws will continue to get stricter. I am glad i don't actively keep hots any more. Because I do not have to deal with it. Really sucks for those that have kept for years, and practice all the safety and everything, and NOT get envenomated ever, to all of a sudden have to get rid of their hots.

Rick
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
The fact is, as long as you got these "cowboy" type people who practice unsafe handling, or free handling because they are voided, we will continue to have envenomations, and the laws will continue to get stricter.
Rick
Click to expand...

Hmmmm.........unsafe handling.

You mean like kissing a bush viper? :crazy03:
 
here in pennsylvania a viod is still considered venomous even though it can not deliver a venomous bite. so i would think it's probly the same in most states but i could be wrong.
 
You are correct. In most, if not all, states, there is no legal difference between a venomoid and an in-tact venomous species.
 
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