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Arboreals of the Rainforest
04-28-2002, 10:03 PM
A pic of the infamous puker from you know who. Compliments of you know who when I purchased it. No favors and not for shock value, just the truth.

<center>http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/22187.jpg<center>

Mike Beard
04-30-2002, 01:56 PM
Well, I went to the Ohio Reptile show. Took Joes pic off this site so I wouldnt miss him. But he never showed up. I even took Tim Watley's pic just to make sure they werent one in the same.

I did see Tim Bowles. He seemed like a real honest straight shooter. He was even nice enough to buy me lunch. Shame Joe never showed, Im sure Tim would have bought his too. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Provided he didnt puke it up on him. Like his Emeralds do when they eat. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Just thought you guys might have wanted to know he was a no show again.

Boasnsuch
05-02-2002, 04:33 PM
Well guess who just posted an ad on Kingsnake for some emeralds?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All are outwardly healthy, in excellent weight (ready for this years breeding season), have been prophylactically deparasitized and several (including the animal pictured) have already fed on frozen thawed rodents.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;Yeah ok Joe.. &nbsp;My $250 is in the mail LOL

Kara

HerpVenue
05-02-2002, 05:42 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">prophylactically deparasitized </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
just wondering if he pulls out a thesaurus or dictionary for some of the words he uses?

Mike Beard
05-07-2002, 02:37 PM
Well at least we know Joe reads this site well. He modifide his adds after trying to smart off at Matt Lerehs adds. He has since stopped bragging about ALL his supposed sales and simply started to place a "sold" under there pics on his photo page or he erases the pics completely to cover his tracks. So it would seem you can teach a dumb dog after all. Wander why he changed? Could it be that he was so arrogant that he didnt realize he was shooting his alleged lawsuite in the foot by running his mouth and bragging again? Shame he had to learn about it through us here at the BOI. I guess we are not the shipwreck he claimed us to be.

I have one more question to pose to you all. Since he is trying to brag about being the #14 overall reptile site last month, exactly how many sites are registered in Bizrate besides his? Do you guys know of any? Who is he being compared to? Let him link to the same counter that I see on everyone elses site and see how he does.

Here is his explanation to the question asked how he got rated so high.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bizrate offers, to members of which my former computer company is one, a site search engine counter. Basically, it reports which sites were jumped to via those engines.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Oh well, more things to make so HUMMMMMM. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

Danny Mendez
05-07-2002, 08:57 PM
I'd like to see one of the people who've purchased animals from Joe P post here on their postive experience. &nbsp;

I'm curious because it seems to me Jopee is selling but no one is really buying, unless you count Tim Watley and the rest of the hotmail/yahoo make-believe crew.

Any takers?

WebSlave
05-07-2002, 09:37 PM
I posted an invite on Joe's board a while back when someone on there asked about the BOI. Surprisingly enough, it got deleted. &nbsp;I would welcome any positive feedback from Joe's customers here.

Trooper Walsh
05-08-2002, 07:05 AM
>>The story of my good experience buying from Joe: &nbsp;I...ahhhh...ummmm, hmmmmm. &nbsp;Come to think of it, I've never bought a snake from Joe - this despite a claim he posted somewhere back in his KS days that I purchased my first Chondo from him some 30 years ago. &nbsp;I think he said it was a blue one, one of if not the first blue in the country...! &nbsp;I wonder if it was a nice snake - prolly was...Chondros rule, you know...?...!...TW<<

HerpVenue
05-08-2002, 07:27 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I posted an invite on Joe's board a while back when someone on there asked about the BOI. Surprisingly enough, it got deleted.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

your just saying that, right?
your not really surprised, right?

Arboreals of the Rainforest
05-08-2002, 09:02 PM
Holly cow,
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">despite a claim he posted somewhere back in his KS days that I purchased my first Chondo from him some 30 years ago. I think he said it was a blue one, one of if not the first blue in the country...! </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I had no idea thats where you got started into GTP's Trooper. Do you have any pics of that animal floating around by any chance? <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

Danny Mendez
05-09-2002, 12:16 AM
*LoL*
DIdn't you know that Jopee was the first to breed chondros? &nbsp;At least until Trooper swooped in on the forum and shut that one down fast. &nbsp;If you're still captivated then perhaps you'd be interested in the paper Jopee wrote about chondros being diurnal...after multiple copy requests the truth came out that the paper was written in high school.

Remember that one too Trooper? &nbsp;Ahhhh, the good ole days on kingsnake before litigations were thrown about...

Mike Beard
05-10-2002, 01:42 PM
Here's another thought for you guys to pander. I seem to remember Joe posting a thread on his forum about folks selling animals at a "BLOWN OUT" price and all you will get is a "BLOWN OUT" animal. It was posted in reference to Matt Lerer and Ben S. and some of thier great deals. Another one of Joes unsuccesful agendas to ruin his competition.
Anyway, what would he say about all his "BLOWN OUT" prices on his less than average batch he is holding for an increasing ransom?
Would these less than average ETB he paid $165.00 each for and selling them at twice that and more be considered "BLOWN OUT" too? Even based on his flawed "ANAL"itical mind and
less than stellar reasoning, this would have to be so about his animals as well.

I too would like see ANYBODY who has had a good experience with JoePee. Besides all his alter egos and fake hotmail personalities.

Oh ye, almost forgot this one.

Just for Joe.

PIC-O-Da-Day

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/22187.jpg
Puker


Seems thats about all that gets posted on his forum anymore.

Mike Beard
05-13-2002, 11:54 AM
Well you guys in Folrida will get your chance to get your butts whooped. Looks like by his recent add for his cages that he his going to be in Daytona. Start practicing your boxing, it wont be long now. I wander who will be first, Matt, Ben, Tim, or any number of the others he has threatened. Should be better than Tyson fight. And judging by his pic it should be as long as one too. 30 to 45 seconsds into the 1st round for the TKO.

I know I cant wait.

Where are all the good guy posts on him?

Who is really buyig his pukers?

HMMMMMMMMMMMM?
Anyone?
Ferris Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Brian Oakley
05-13-2002, 04:33 PM
Let me start by saying that I am a FIRM believer in voicing your opinions. &nbsp;I am NOT telling ANYONE what to write or say.
With that said, I cannot believe after all these years, this guy gets all the attention he does. &nbsp;Story after story about Joe P. for years and years and they just keep coming!
be good all!
Brian Oakley

Mike Beard
05-20-2002, 12:07 PM
Pic-O-Da-Day

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/22184.jpg


Just for you Joe

the infamous puker again.

Mike Beard
05-20-2002, 12:14 PM
Here's the quote that goes with the pic.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is another pic of the PUKER that JoePEE sold. He even admitted it was having problems before he sold it, but blamed it on the prey he was feeding it. Told a very convincing story. Post the feeding chart JoePEE. Show the slimey loose BM's where you "suspected to ripe a fuzzy" After all, you studied Regurge and admitted to infecting a perfectly healthy animal for a test subject. The ones that this one infected followed the same symptoms of the one you sold as "HEALTHY" Stretch the truth some more JOEPEE.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

How do you answer this Joe?

Danny Mendez
05-21-2002, 10:40 AM
Shouldn't it be called "Puke-o-da-day?"
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Mike Beard
05-23-2002, 08:01 AM
I never thought I would see the day when another post would have more hits than the infamous JoePEE threads. But Neil has surpassed Joe by tons.

But Joe will always remain on top as the first see this kind of numbers. You truely are a high profile man in this industry Joe. Keep up the good work.


Come out an answer these accusations Joe.

I keep trying to see things from your view but I cant get my head that far up my ( ! ) . So please answer these people and the charges against you.

Mike Beard
05-31-2002, 07:35 AM
Have you guys seen this yet. &nbsp;This guy is so paranoid that he changed his rules to be even more in control. &nbsp;Now you have to register to post on his lame dying board. &nbsp;ROFLMA

I still see that he is being hipocritcal and limitting the "personal grudges" to his and his alone. &nbsp;Noone else can have one.

By the way, since Mike H admitts he does nothing with the board anymore, who is on this "committee" that runs the bord? &nbsp;Joe and all his imaginative personalities, alter egos, and fake internet images? &nbsp;



</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rule #1 : The Moderator is ALWAYS right.


Rule #2 : When it appears to you that the Moderator may be WRONG, refer back to Rule #1.


Rule #3 : No anonymous Posts. Pseudonames are fine but a valid email address is mandatory.


Overveiw : Simply stated, this board is run via committee. If any individual on the committee finds any post or any part of any post inappropriate FOR ANY REASON he/she is authorized to remove any portion or all of the post in question. This forum is not to be used to air personal grudge matches or attacks of that nature. Such posts will be removed and repeated violation may cause the suspension of an individuals access privileges. This board is NOT A PUBLIC FORUM, nor is it a democracy. By coming here and registering to post, you have agreed to abide by the guidelines set forth by the moderators. You can trust in our discretion, honor and desire to do our best to remain impartial and open. However, don't push it.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Danny Mendez
05-31-2002, 12:30 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, since Mike H admitts he does nothing with the board anymore, who is on this "committee" that runs the bord? &nbsp;Joe and all his imaginative personalities, alter egos, and fake internet images? &nbsp;</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Comittee = Multiple Persons
JoPee = Multiple Personalities

I can see where there might be some confusion. &nbsp;SO, who else is on the comittee governing the TBF or Terminal boa forum?

Joe? Mike? Joe's personalities?

jbuncc
06-12-2002, 10:38 PM
so, what's the latest on this ass clown?
i REALLY want to know why he can post on kingsnakes classifieds!
oh, i think i coined a new acronym for his business...

Damn Gastrointestinally Sick emeralds. &nbsp;i think it applies better than Damons Glorious Serpents

Tom Burns
06-17-2002, 04:39 PM
Yeah, I was wondering the same. Did he ever follow through with any of his more recent lawsuit threats? Or does he still have his head in the sand? It must suck to be him! Oh, that reminds me, does anybody remember the time he recommended attaching 45+lbs of bricks and/or rocks to the inside wall of a reptile shipping box. He said this would prevent the "idiots" at Delta from throwing the box into the cargo bin, because it would be to heavy to throw!? Does anybody know a good way to attach 45lbs of bricks to styrofoam? LOL

P.S. Don't try this at home! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Tom Burns

Don't just do something! Sit there!

EMERALDGUY33
06-21-2002, 12:37 PM
Hey Tom,

Remember the time he urged folks to handle gravid ETB's as often as possible. That by doing so, the offspring would be born tame? I still get a good laugh out of that one. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Different strokes for DIFFERENT folks!!!

Tom Burns
06-21-2002, 04:41 PM
LOL! He musta learned that trick from Daemon, the all knowing former keeper of the Glorious Serpent...

Tom Burns

Yes, there IS a roll of quarters in my pocket... But thanks for asking!

Arboreals of the Rainforest
06-22-2002, 12:14 AM
Ut OH guys, a new mystery to solve. Check it out.

Mystery Posts (http://cgiapps.aplushosting.com/~corallus.com/ikonboard3/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=186)

Stay tuned to see where it goes.

Mike Beard
09-30-2002, 02:48 PM
This sick idiot is being regurged once again. Joe, his twin alter ego Tim Watley and Mike H are back to the same old tricks that got them the great reputation they enjoy now.

Seems that KingSnake has finally added the Tree Boa forum back after the long forced absence by Joe P and his nut monkey lawsuite. Now the dynamic trio of idiots are back at it stirring crap on Jeff B's site.

Jeff
Delete these trio of idiots and all Joe's personalities from you site. Dont let them ruin it again for everyone. Not to mention they got caught spamming your paying classified customers to post on his board. Dont take my word for it, Mike admitted on the corallus.com forum. Isnt that aviolation of your TOS in some way?

Toss them like yesterdays trash. Flush them like the turds they are.

Here is Mike's post read it for yourselves.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mike H.

Tree Boa Fan

Group: Tree Boa Fan
Posts: 27
Joined: Mar. 2002
Posted: July 05 2002,11:38

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for the record, there is no "poaching" going on, just an invitation we send out to people advertising arboreals to use our free service. It's no different than people who join Link and/or banner exchange services (some people even pay 'website traffic' services who promise to get their sites a high rating in the search engines). Is there something wrong with us advertising our free service? after all it is free to both the buyer and seller and it is for the benefit of the buyers, sellers, and animals.

Don't you have anything else you can sink your obsession into other than our forum and classifieds board?

--------------
Mike H. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

HerpVenue
09-30-2002, 07:55 PM
Dude...
I do not see it.
Maybe it got erased....But
It seems everyone is behaving themselves.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
09-30-2002, 08:35 PM
Yes Ritchie, it got erased by the moderating team at KS. Seems they lost another round of their futile attacks and lame attempts to sling mud at the internets 2 best Corallus sites. Corallus.com by Paully and now the real original Tree Bao Forum by KS and Jeff B.

Here is the latest attempt of JoeP or Tim Watley or whatever he is calling himself this week to stir a turd on the REBORN Tree Boa Forum on King Snake.

Ralph, who is a great guy and owner of the Dark Grove posted this reply to assist someone in the world of corallus.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted by The Dark Grove on September 29, 2002 at 19:54:41:

In Reply to: Thinking about getting in to ETB, posted by boaboy13 on September 29, 2002 at 19:48:19:

:Hey all, i have 17 snakes, alligator and 3 turtles, i just bred my amazon tree boas (this is my first time to breed snakes) and got 11 babys, all are doing great but im thinking about selling all my amazons and get a ETB, and later on when i got the money buy a aounther one and breed them. How simlaer are they to ATB? Are they as aggressef? Are they much harder to breed? well thanks for any help
:Philip
:


Come visit us at www.corallus.com you asked a question that isn't easily answered in one or two simple posts. All the information you need is at that site, where us tree boa people hang out.........




Ralph </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Then Mr. (Joe) Watley decided to add his typical lower than average educated brain farts in the mix to simply try and stir things up. Didnt work, he got the KS ax instead. LOL

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted by TimWatley on September 29, 2002 at 235:36:

In Reply to: Re: Thinking about getting in to ETB, posted by The Dark Grove on September 29, 2002 at 19:54:41:

isn't that site made up of all the tree boa forum rejects and suburban bunglers?
has a single one of those guys ever bred an emerald in his life? if so who and when?
think i'll just hang with big boys.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Even MikeH tried to stand with the big boys, only to be refuted with the TRUTH. Shame it got deleted before he could get in over his head like he did in the thread about he and JoeP poaching the KS classifieds and spamming the customers of KS to post on the Terminal Puker Classifieds.

BUSTED. LOL

HerpVenue
09-30-2002, 09:16 PM
Why is Tim Watley such a loser?
I mean everyone is trying to get along and he goes and says something like that. &nbsp;What has he bred? &nbsp;He acts as though he is like Mr. Expert.

Sorry you do not become an expert just because you Kiss someones @ss

sheesh couldn't Tim just leave Kingsnake alone?
I mean if he wants to stick with the "Big Dogs" why did he go from his home forum to the one on kingsnake?

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-01-2002, 06:03 AM
Well Ritchie,
It appears that the the pompass JoeP is finally starting to show his true colors again. Shame he is to chicken chit to hide behind his forum delete key. He should sprout a pair and come on here to do it like a MAN. But after all, he is just a boy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted by Joe P. on September 30, 2002 at 22:13:52:

In Reply to: Re: ETB Pick-O-Da-Day posted by Ernie Eison on September 30, 2002 at 18:50:57:




EU's True Patternless

Hands down my favorite all time of this morph, this animal is truley awesome. Why Ernie ever elected to give it up is beyond me. ( if you were Tim Bowels I'd say it was the CRACK!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I think Paul told me one or the pair were in Philadelphia, is that correct?

I know the male and one of my females Kidra came from Guyana. They were both acquired through Ricky Duffield (thanks to Paul's initial introduction) as Guyana imports, a year and an half apart. The other two I am less certain about. I believe that Faedrah, having come via Mike Ellard, is from Suriname, and Picalo is a captive born animal of unknown origin. I'm going to start paying stricter attention to the shipment origins in the future, as that would be very curious to be able to confirm.

Thanks for the info. Glad to have you back posting after a long absence.

Cheers...

:)oe P.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

He cant even follow his own rules on his own very sad and lonely forum. But wait, its OK for him just not anyone else who can prove he is a maroooooooon.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...This forum is not to be used to air personal grudge matches or attacks of that nature. Such posts will be removed and repeated violation may cause the suspension of an individuals access privileges...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Must be very drepressing talking to yourself on your own forum.

Rumor has it he had to put down almost his entire collection of ETB do to the FACT that they were pukers. I wander how many more dissease ridden pukers he has?

LOL

BUSTED

Cant wait to see his fat head in Chicago this weekend. He has yet to show his face in Columbus since I started this thread. Just shows his cowardly gutless nature.
Remember Joey,
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">save it for a little face to face you fat peice of ####.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Oh dont worry little man, I am. See you in a week.

Classic Dum's
10-01-2002, 08:11 AM
Doesnt this guy ever go away? go crawl under the rock you burried your puking emeralds under already will ya, hey Tim if your going to be in Chicago we gotta hook up Ill be there with a buddy of mine in one of the end booths not sure were at but anyway hope to see you there

Ken Harbart
10-01-2002, 11:35 AM
Tim, didn't you know that Joe is above his own rules? The rules over there apply to everyone but the moderators.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rule #1 : The Moderator is ALWAYS right.

Rule #2 : When it appears to you that the Moderator may be WRONG, refer back to Rule #1.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Of course, I got a kick out of this little gem...
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can trust in our discretion, honor and desire to do our best to remain impartial and open.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'd say discretion, honor, and impartiality were lacking from Joe's post. Oh well, at least he was open about the way he feels when he took that juvenile shot at you. I guess one out of four is acceptable o'er there.

Jeff Craven
10-01-2002, 03:27 PM
I couldn't resist at taking a peak. &nbsp;There only appears to be about 5 people on that site.

The Dark Grove
10-01-2002, 03:55 PM
Wow!


I didn't even know this thread was this large.

I really don't come out of my cave much but someone told me about it so here I am. I really just keep to myself and once in awhile help out a newbie (which we all were at one time). I have , absoultely have had, the WORST results with KS forums because of these silly pi$$ing matches. I rarely even go to the forums to look nowadays. I once inquired about obtaining a Male Parson's Chameleon (which is my speciality and most favorite animal on the planet) and instead of a few simple replies the thread became WWIII until someone figured out I'm one of the originals from the 80's to work with these beautiful animals. All the "righteous" ones (who never have even handled one) finally went away. I was VERY pleased with KS to see they actually moderated the Tree boa forum. All I did was give someone a resource, a direction, to help them find some of the answers they need for their hobby. I didn't even know who Tim was. &nbsp;

I keep to myself. I was very neutral in this JoePee thing until that crap post while I was trying to &nbsp;help a newbie. If you are reading this Joe then know this: that stupid, disrespectful, reply to my simple post has put me on the the other side of the fence from you and yours for good.


If Tim had any tact or brains he could have put a similar post just saying "the TBF is another site specifically for Tree boa keepers" but he had to prove everybody right and be a public idiot. &nbsp;


At least Jeff at KS is moderating things correctly. Keep it friendly, proffesional ,or get the he!! off of the forum.



I'm going back to my cave now.



Thanks

Ralph Chapman <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-01-2002, 07:49 PM
It is a very sad thing to watch any animal get sick and fall from our care.

But this link is the worst of them all. Many of the ETB's that where listed have been put down. This concentration camp for ETB's is the worst example of neglect and total ignorance of good husbandry practrices I have ever seen. A total lack of any real respects for a quarantine period has spread the unkown puker factor through out the collection. Whatever the disease is that ran through this colony by the total lack of concern for the health of the animals or just simple stupidity, should be isolated and irradicated. Hopefully this keeper will learn from his mistake and learn how to care for them properly and what a true quarantine period is with respect for the animal and not the greedy dollar.

Sadly the animals left on the list will mostlikely follow the same path as the ones before them. Its a disgusting shame that he is to pompass to learn from this tragedy.


The Green Mile for ETB's (http://www.d-g-s.com/daemons/gallery.htm)

How much longer will he continue to kill these great creatures and spread this disease to other colonies?
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Danny Mendez
10-01-2002, 09:00 PM
It's a shame. With all the advances we've made in ETB health and husbandry all it takes is one certain gutless individual to spread a plaugue trhoughout collections accross the country.

It's a real sin that so many animals were put down from that collection...just because one individual has to be so pompass and ignorant.

Keep up the good work Joe. &nbsp;How are treeboa sales going booby?

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Hey Tim,
So you think he'll really show this weekend? &nbsp;Please Please please bring a camera and get some good pics for us!
(Like he's gonna show...)

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-02-2002, 05:25 PM
The latest tim watley/JoePee trash on his forum.

Why wont you bring your big butt and huge mouth over here to face the truth for a change? Come out of hiding you coward.

And quit killing ETB. &nbsp;


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">speaking of slugs
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Boa Kingdom ] [ FAQ ]

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Posted by tim on October 02, 2002 at 17:10:11:

In Reply to: My All Time Favorite Patternless. posted by Joe P. on September 30, 2002 at 22:13:52:



There should be a picture here but the idiot Tim/Joe cant figure out how to post it correctly.



since tim cant keep his big feet out of his mouth on that other message board i think ill give them something to whine about.


Follow Ups:



</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>


Danny
I really think he will show up like he does here in Columbus.
Oh wait, thats right, he doesnt show up anymore. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

So I guess the answer to your question is, probably NOT.

Ralph,
Welcome out of the cave. LOL

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-03-2002, 08:06 PM
Oh you gotta see this one folks.

Follow me.... (http://cgiapps.aplushosting.com/~corallus.com/ikonboard3/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=611)

Seems Joe now has a freind doing his attacks on me since he can't do it himself.

For a good laugh go read it. See what kind of TROLLS and trash follow him.

ScottsReptiles
10-03-2002, 09:46 PM
Although this thread has entertained me for quite some time as of late.. but.. I think this has gone above and beyond the scope of this board and has become a personal attack on Joe P. I think the almighty webmaster needs to put an end to it. from the current 29 pages of posting.. I think anyone that wants to read all of it.. can get enough opinions from Tim and others to make their own decisions...

But.. thats just my opinion.....

Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko
10-03-2002, 11:30 PM
Scott, Hey how's it going haven't talked in a while. &nbsp;I hear what your talking about, when a thread just keeps draging and draging out. &nbsp;I don't think this is the case though. &nbsp;A good guy here got burned with a sick animal. &nbsp;Not just the fact that its a higher end animal and there's some money in play, but more importantly a sick animal was put on someone else's colony, sold as a healthy animal jepordizing his entire collection. &nbsp;I think this thread SHOULD BE posted on every once and a while just so it rises to the top of the screen and everyone can see it repeatedly. &nbsp;I know that when I myself am in the market for quality captive bred Emmy's, I at least know who not to go to! &nbsp;Just my opinion... &nbsp; Mike

Mike Beard
10-04-2002, 09:45 AM
To Mr. Jack Anonymous,

Stop lying.
You have never contacted me in regaurds to any animals I have purchased from Mr. Bowles. Or any of his breeding projects.

Should you be so inclined to come here, I will be more than happy to tell you all about them as they are perfect in every way.

You have the very distinct smell of a trouble maker and have proven already to be a liar.

Danny Mendez
10-04-2002, 11:45 AM
Scott,

You're right this thread has dragged on for a long time but as long as this $cumbag is out there it needs to be seen. &nbsp;This person is the scurge of the arboreal boid world...he preys on those that are not informed and is a master at making you believe he's something that he's really not. &nbsp;

I have been battling Joe for a few years now and I know what this lowlife is capable of, this string will help others understand as well and prevent anyone from spending *alot* of hard earned money on an animal that will surely die if it originates from anywhere within 10 feet of JoPee's collection.

In fact, I think webslave should permanently post this thread at the top of the BOI as I think JoPee is the lowest of the low with regards to the ripoff artists mentioned on this website.

As long as JoPee keep rearing that big fat head...this post needs to continue to serve as a warning for others.

The Dark Grove
10-04-2002, 11:58 AM
I'll second Danny but I also want to point out that on a number of times Danny and others have traced the ISP from "friends" right back to JoeP, imlpling he's using other names and such to post replies to his own posts. We have recently had a a few "unknowns" pop up that have far too much knowledge to be just that. Not to mention they won't use their full names or anything like that, most likely because they don't exist.





This kind of person needs to be kept an eye on, I can personally say that buying a sick ETB abd having it die in less than 3 weeks despite a Good Herp vet and having no luck in getting back your $$$$ is a terrible experience.

One last fact. This guy always has the option to make a reasonable post to clear things up or defend himself yet he won't, he knows why.




My .10


Ralph Chapman

Nan
10-05-2002, 11:15 AM
Just thought I would share with everyone that Joe is still at it (as if you all didn't already know that <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>)

We didn't get a puker (well at least not that I know of as she hasn't eaten yet, so it's real hard to puke when it doesn't eat)

About a month ago we bought the most gorgeous female emerald from Joe. We saw her pictures and everything looked great. We paid for her and got her shipped out to us. The next day we noticed that one of her eyes was starting to get very full of mucus and start to puff out from the socket. Almost to the point of the eye popping.

We called Joe and he informed us that the snake had "Bubble Eye" No vet or reptile store has been able to confirm what that disease is yet. Anyway. Joe said that we could send her back and he would give us a refund on her, or exchange her for another female. We made the arrangements to do so.

The problem was that she is really most beautiful animal that you've ever seen. And what Joe was telling me that he was going to do (drain the eye and give her some medicine) seemed so simple. SO I told him I was going to call a local Vet and see if they could help her.

At that time he told me that if I had her seen by a Vet, he wouldn't guarantee the animal because he doesn't know what the Vet knows. (In hindsight after reading 30 pages in this thread, I know why he said that. He was afraid of what we'd find out)

This female was very obviously sick and even looked to be in pain. So I called the Vet anyway. We have an excellent exotics Vet who came to look at her. And the only question that we had for him after he looked at her was: what wasn't wrong with her.

She had extensive worm infestation. The filling of the eyes was a very severe respitory infection that not only infected her eyes, rotted out all her teeth, left mouth sores and filled up her ears. We were basically looking at a snake that should have been dead, but by some miracle wasn't. The Vet later determined through some blood work that this was not a new illness, shipping made it progress rapidly because she was stressed out, but this illness was months in the making.

SO now 35 days later, the Vet came back because she hasn't eaten in about 6 weeks (according to Joe's records on her) and seems to be getting very lethargic. He first checked her out and was happy to report that by just looking at her, it seemed the infection had goneand now looked more like malnutrition was probably the reason for her not looking and acting like an emerald. Blood work later confrimed that the infection is now gone. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
She was force fed yesterday as she is petrified of food in general. Alive or dead. We tried everything even went to frozen and live chicks.

She's now out of quarantine and looking like an emerald. For the first time in weeks she's back up in the branches in her cage.

While everything worked out ok. The Vet says she's been traumatized. He said to expect a few more times of having to force feed her to get her back to her proper nutrition.

A happy ending, but to be honest, there were some days in there we thought she was going to die. Many days I wished I'd sent her back for my refund. But now I'm glad I didn't. She's healthy now and the Vet says in a few months she'll be good as new and in a few sheds her eyes will be clear and healthy again.

Anyway, moral of the story: The Vet determined a lot of what she had to be airborne. So chances are one snake has it, every snake in his collection is infected the same way. We've racked up $1300 in medical bills and medicine for her so far. Which isn't a small investment, but worth every penny of it.

Danny Mendez
10-05-2002, 08:22 PM
Nancy,

You should be commended for sticking to your guns on this animal. &nbsp;I can just about 100% guarantee that if you had returned this animal to JoPee it would now be in the freezer!

He'd most likely look at it and toss it in the freezer like he has already done with most of his collection from what I hear.

I'll never forget how JoPee once recommended pouring hydrogen peroxide to aid infected eyecaps, this would result in severe burns and blindness to the eyes.. It's advice like this and experiences like yours that pretty much speak volumes for this individual.

Good job on not giving up on that animal!
&nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Nan
10-05-2002, 11:07 PM
Danny, Thanks <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

One of the reason's I didn't send her back is she is just the most beautiful animals I've ever seen. &nbsp;She's the one we were going to mate the male with that we got from you. But the Vet says with her weight loss, she most likely will not be ready to breed this season. &nbsp;So we're looking for another female to try and get this season in. Even if she's ready this year, I think she's been through enough the last few months and should have a little while to adjust now to her new surroundings.

Thanks again. Joe wasn't ever a "bad" guy to us. He was very helpful in answering some questions and did offer to give me a full refund. He just sold us a bad animal. But everything turned out great. She's worth every penny to get her back into good shape as I said, she's absolutely beautiful. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-06-2002, 08:49 PM
Nancy,
Sorry to hear about yet another problem animal he sold. I am very glad you took the time to work with it and hopefully it will make a complete recovery for you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At that time he told me that if I had her seen by a Vet, he wouldn't guarantee the animal because he doesn't know what the Vet knows. (In hindsight after reading 30 pages in this thread, I know why he said that. He was afraid of what we'd find out)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Guarentee - Terms - Shipping - Banking Info.
Our Guarantee
Our PRIMARY goal is complete customer satisfaction. In order to insure this, all specimens sold are:

1: Captive-bred offspring produced at our facility (unless otherwise noted).
2: Flawless specimens in excellent condition (unless otherwise noted).
3: If coloration, size, and weights of specimens are very important, please let us know so that we can accurately describe (including emailed photos: multiple views), measure and weigh your specimens prior to placing your order.
4: If you are dissatisfied with your specimens for any reason, you may return your order for a full refund of the purchase price (DGS does not refund shipping costs), providing that you notify us, and make immediate arrangements for the return of the specimens within 24 hours of receipt of your shipment.
5: Any animal sold as Established, will be either:
A: LTC - (having passed through a minimum 90 day quarantined period)
B: CB - Captive Born
C: CBB - Captive Bred & Born
As such all are guaranteed to be:
A: Parasite free.
B: Properly sexed
C: An established feeding specimen.>

If for any reason a customer is dissatisfied with any of these aspects of their purchase within the first 30 days of receipt, I will issue a 100% refund of the purchase price of the animal upon it's return.
Our Established stock and our written guaranteed coverage are absolutley THE BEST AVAILABLE.


Ordering / Pricing
To place an order, please call toll free (888)347-4424 or outside the U.S. (513)232-9700 or e-mail us at
emeralds@d-g-s.com .
A 50% deposit is required to remove from sales availability and hold a specific specimen for 90 days. Any remaining balance must be paid within the intial 90 days in order to maintain ownership. Should the balance fail to be remitted during this period, any deposits shall be forfiet and DGS shall retain ownership and enter the animal back into stock for resale. Please verify availability before sending payment.
DGS will house and feed specimens for upto 180 days at no additional charge awaiting weather conditions appropriate for shipment throughout the shipping route.
Advertised prices are F.O.B. Cincinnati, Ohio and DO NOT include freight and/or insurance.
All prices are EACH unless otherwise noted.
All prices are in U.S. dollars.
All prices are subject to change without notice.
On the purchase of multiple animals, we may be offering a non-published quantity discount - please inquire.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Funny thing, I dont see any such clause that says you cant have them vet checked before the 100% satisfaction gaurantee 30 day time frame is up it or null and voids the agreement. Regaurdless of what the vet may or may not know, he is no vet(and that is painfully obvious) so how can he judge a vets knowledge base.

I am missing something here?

Nan
10-07-2002, 11:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am missing something here? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

We thought we were missing something too. Which is why orginally I was going to have a vet just look at her and not actually do anything so I could make that assesment on whether or not to send her back. When the vet said that the eyes getting bad was just a result of a much deeper problem we kind of all made the decsion together to treat her here.

What I assume now was that Joe didn't want us to find out about the problems she had that the Vet rattled off to us just by looking at her. That's just my guess though.

But like I said, all in all she looks good again. There were some scary times when she was just laying on the bottom of her enclosure. My husband thought for sure a couple of times she was going to die. But today now, she's back up on her branches wrapped around looking like the rest in our collection. &nbsp; She's got some of her fistyness back too. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The Dark Grove
10-07-2002, 02:04 PM
Congratulations on the recovery Nancy.


I myself have been doing oodles and oodles of research on ERS since this past Feb and while there have been times I wanted to put down an animal "for its own good" I don't. I've racked up some big $$$$$ Vet bills despite my Herp vet not really charging me for everything done but its a living animal(s) that is in my care. It's our RESPONSIBILITY to maintain their health if we choose to take them out of the wild. You succeeded with yours, its looking like I've completed my work too. It's a huge shame on one person in particular to be involved with these animals and learn from the examples of people like us and others to take care of their responsibility to these animals, or any animal for that matter.


Question? &nbsp; Why didn't the "quality" businessman not send you back a refund anyway? You contacted him the day you knew it was sick. You have vet bills you can copy and foward to him. It sounds like an excellent court case if he wants to stick you with everything but all that unpleasantness aside. A good business will stand by its animals or its mistakes and take care of the customer. He should refund you the cost of the snake. If he was smart he would do that just to regain some status of a reputation that is completely gone in my eyes not to mention he could use the information from those copies to treat his own animals if he knows which end of a needle goes into the animal..........





I would at least, politely, get my money back for the animal to offset the Vet bills. If that can't be done then go for the whole amount via the court. Perhaps your vet would be willing to come testify? It would be a good way for him to help deal with the person who gave him such a sick snake to work on in the first place.


If none of that works Nancy then just come hang out at corallus.com


one more person hanging out with us just infuriates him even more as his numbers dwindle at his "number one tree boa" site.


All these things help deal with someone who sells sick animals, whether in money, prestige or just ego. &nbsp;Take your pick but don't let this go because he'll just do it again to some other unsuspecting customer and more animals



my .25



Ralph Chapman <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Nan
10-07-2002, 05:42 PM
Ralph,

At this point, I'm just glad she's better and even more glad that I didn't send her back and got her taken care of.

Between all the ventures that we have going I'm not sure I really have time to fight Joe about it. So I'll take my beautiful Emmy and be glad she's ok now.

BTW, I do check out corallus.com everyday. I haven't registered but I read it daily. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Nan
10-07-2002, 05:54 PM
Here's a picture of her from a few days after we got her. You can see her eye in it. Actually you can't miss her eye <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
http://www.shaes.com/emmy1.jpg

The Dark Grove
10-07-2002, 07:25 PM
The animal arrived like that!?!?!



I'd be all over someone for sending that to me...............




Ralph Chapman

John Hedger
10-07-2002, 11:43 PM
Nancy,
&nbsp;That eye is a pretty blatant affliction...Obviously he would have known about this problem before shipping her to you...but he probably didn't mention it did he?? Joe should give you a total refund or at least a healthy replacement whether she flourishes from this point or not. &nbsp;
Geeez Joe, I can't believe you sent out an emerald in that condition!!!
John Hedger

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-08-2002, 12:25 PM
Nancy
An interesting factoid for you to read. I truly hope you practice strict isolation techniques with this animal you have from him. If I where you I would consider it highly contagious until a year has passed without incident.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Posted by Joe P. on January 08, 2002 at 00:31:53:

In Reply to: Your typical responce when you get busted.... posted by suticat on January 07, 2002 at 23<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>6:11:

Now, get your story straight son. I took back ONE other animal, a basin, from Matt Lerer. I GAVE AWAY OVER 5K worth of animals, including ONE basin and two groups of northerns. It had NOTHING to do with any sales I made, I simply donated my study group to one individual and one institution that wanted them to conduct their own reseach on. If you want to verify that you may ask Paul Lord who recieved one group or contact Dr. Jacobsen at the University of FL, the recipients of the other. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

At an average wholesale cost of say $200 each minus the 1k for the basin, that would be @ 20 more he killed.

Both groups went south according to him.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted by Joe P. on January 20, 2002 at 20:37:20:
On a more somber note, I have now the unenviable task of disposing of 13 or the nicest Northern Emeralds I have ever seen. These are all animals acquired by me over the last 3 years. Each became part a of the ERS study that I terminated in May of 2001 when 10 of these went to live at a friends home where he has taken care of them using my maintenance program since. He has now decided to throw in the towel, as there is little in the herp world more disgusting than a four-day-old regurgitated food item. He tried to endure but has found it impossible to continue, so I am left with the task of liquidating these KNOWN regurgitation machines. Each and every one of these animals is a top 10% animal phenotype, ultra high-white knockout in outwardly excellent condition. Not a single bonerack, or even thin animal in the lot, which is the only reason they escaped the deep freeze in May. The acquisition of this group comes with heavy stipulations and restrictions, which will require the purchaser to sign a written purchase agreement.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Here is 13 he killed.



</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Posted by Joe P. on February 07, 2002 at 19:28:57:

In Reply to: ERS Story posted by steve on February 07, 2002 at 14:20:10:

Hi Steve;

That's a very interesting saga. I'll have to give that a shot with the one animal I am having problems with now, a 10 year captive that only began regurgitating after 8 months here, having never been exposed to any other animals. Perhaps your information will help her.

In any event, tell your friend that I currently have a groupe of 14 of some of the best looking Emeralds I've every seen,housed locally that are all freezer bound. They are all ERS animals, some WC some CB of various ages from 3 years old to adults. They are available for a very small sum to anyone willing to take the entire group with a no resale contingency.

Tell him to call me if he is interested. These animals are due for the deep freeze in 48 hours.

Thanks..

Joe P.
888-347-4424
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Or is that 14?

This group is housed locally and I was at his place when his buddy came to pick up a puker from him.


Now he put down almost all of his Northerns. He bragged about having over 50 emeralds total. Now he has 29 posted and some of those are recent additions. So we add another 20 or so to the list he has killed.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Emerald Tree Boas

Corallus caninus

(click any image to view the full size photo)

Here's Mattie, my Amazon Basin Emerald

2 highly recommended Emerald Tree Boa related links....



Check out my friend Joe Polanco's site DAEMON'S GLORIOUS SERPENT, a site totally dedicated to the successful husbandry and propagation of the emerald tree boa. He also has photo galleries of each of his 50+ emeralds!!!

The Tree Boa Forum

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The proof that this post is for real. (http://www.boakingdom.com/emeraldphotos.html)


So when you add that up by his numbers.
13 or 14
plus 20
plus 20
thats @ 53 or 54 he killed.

These are not my words or numbers but came straight from him and his posts.

Starting to see a trend here folks. How can 1 person have so many sick and infested animals and not think he is spreading it to everyone he sells to?

Tom Burns
10-08-2002, 02:19 PM
WOW, that eye looks pretty bad Nancy! I'm usually very understanding of the fact that when dealing with WC reptiles, sometimes problems do manage to slip through the cracks. But c'mon, I find it hard to believe something that obvious slipped through any cracks! It sure looks from here like somebody was trying to unload a known problem animal on somebody else.

Thank you for coming forward with your story Nancy. I'm sure it was/is a very upsetting experience for you. Not to mention that you probably could have come close to purchasing a nice CBB basin for the amount of money it's cost you to save this animal. Let this be a warning to all you folks who have not yet taken this 31 page thread seriously. There's a lot of bad dudes out there, so please take the time to research anyone whom you plan on doing business with. After all, it's your money!

Tom Burns
Upper End Exotics (http://www.treeboas.com)

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-08-2002, 08:10 PM
I wasnt going to post about this but it seems I need to.

To all those who have emailed me asking about the Chicago Show and JoePuker.

After posting on several forums he doesnt read (um yea right) when and where I would be at the show on Saturday, JoePuker never showed. Several of us hung out for most of the day waiting for his royal plumpness to pop in. But you guessed it, he avoided us as usual. Seems he did manage to show at the very end of the day to take some pics and scurried out the door like a roach in the light. Best part of it all, is that some breeders treated him like he was one of his own pukers and wouldnt even let him touch their cages let alone their animals. To funny lil man. So I arrived early again on Sunday to see if he would sprout a set and show up. Again to no avail. Seems even staying in the very Hotel the convention was in it was still to hard for him to find me.

Maybe he will come to the Columbus show before I retire and collect SS, who knows.

Hope this answered all your questions.
Thanks for asking.

Danny Mendez
10-08-2002, 08:49 PM
As usual, all bark and no bite.
According to Joe (as per a conversation with a friend of mine) he waited around ALL day and "no one stepped up".

Once again, more lies spewed like one of his pukers. I guess when you no longer have a collection to care for you can get pretty creative with your perception of life.

Another chapter for the Joe P(uker) files.

Mike Beard
10-09-2002, 08:50 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So when you add that up by his numbers.
13 or 14
plus 20
plus 20
thats @ 53 or 54 he killed.

These are not my words or numbers but came straight from him and his posts.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

OMG
That rivals Ted Bundy, Charly Manson, Son of Sam, and most serial killers.

Thanks for bringing that to light for us all to see.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-13-2002, 11:25 PM
More TRUTH about this mass murderer of ETB.

He has been banned for life from KingSnake for many more reasons than are listed in these 31 pages about him. He is so annoyed that Jeff B. re-opened the KS Tree Boa Forum that he cant stay away from it. Even though he is banned for life.

Here is the list of his lame attempts to ruin KS Tree Boa Forum yet once again. Seems he cant stand it when he is REALLY NOT WANTED ANYWHERE.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted by tenfield on October 13, 2002 at 00:54<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow Ups:


Re: My first ATB litter... ProxyKing 10/13/02 (2) Really JoePuker
This guys kills ETB by the dozens....... suticat 10/13/02 (0)

Re: My first ATB litter... serpentine 10/13/02 (1)Really JoePuker
This guy kills off ETB by the dozens...... suticat 10/13/02 (0)

Re: My first ATB litter... band4life 10/13/02 (1) Really JoePuker
band4life suticat 10/13/02 (0) </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Best part about it is that I and others have collected the ISP's and they all lead back to him. Not to mention, he was stupid enough to put his name on the posts with his dead boards logo in it.

Jeff is all over this rotund one and is deleting his trespassing posts. I do believe that would fall under some SPAM laws if Jeff was so inclined to nail his largeness on it.

The TRUTH bites you right in the booboo again, doesn't it JosePuker?

The Dark Grove
10-14-2002, 01:38 AM
Wow.




Tim you are sooooo good at this tracking stuff. &nbsp;Joe, we know you read these threads. At this point you have nothing, zero, to lose by actually posting some responses. &nbsp;



The entertainment could be sooooooooooo much better if you posted something. I still haven't forgotten that stupid cheap shot taken by your buddy when I just helped a newbie with information. You should have left me alone to be neutral. As for that bubble eyed ETB you sold! You should be banned not just from KS but from keeping reptiles completely.



Ralph Chapman

HerpVenue
10-14-2002, 02:10 AM
That is so funny.

He claims to have the number one arboreal site or something....
but he feels it so necessarry to go posting elsewhere.

If I had the number one site...I would stay there.

I guess this means we know the truth.

Dan Pitre
10-14-2002, 03:04 AM
How are all my Corallus buddies doing.... Just thought I'd say hi to you all since i was just lurking around &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Mike Beard
10-15-2002, 03:00 PM
I have been watching this lunatics attempts to post on the the King Snake Tree Boa Forum as well. Seems HE is allowed to ban folks but when the shoe is on the other foot he acts like an A$$ about it. What a childish mind he has.

And this Mike H guy (aka Joepeepee's Brown-noser) is the funniest of all. Both of them seem to be so wrapped up in themselves its almost like homo's in love. But I wouldnt want to downgrade the alternative lifestyle by associating them to it. They are not the be it, know all dynamic duo of the corallus world.

And why are they leaving their #1 Arboreal site to post on JeffBs King Snake site anyhow?

Could it be they are tired of talking to themselves and joepeeppee's brother tim Watley?

Or could it be to simply cause trouble? &nbsp;

Personally I am very glad to se JeffB. delteting this trio from his site. I hope you do take legal action against him and get some revenge and more satisfaction.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-15-2002, 07:04 PM
A lil something for Jack Anonymous.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm looking for cb babies, Mike Beard sent me to you. Do you have some for sale?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Return-Path: <atlanta_herper@yahoo.com>
Received: from web13107.mail.yahoo.com (web13107.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.152])
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wrote the other day, maybe you didn't get it. Mike Beard from the BOI said you are the best emerald breeder he knows, do you have any of this years babies left?
later, Jack A.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Return-Path: <atlanta_herper@yahoo.com>
Received: from web13101.mail.yahoo.com (web13101.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.146])

I called Mike (a good friend and very happy customer) to thank hi for te referal and as you may have guessed it, he NEVER heard of you.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why didn't he just email me instead of posting his message on the BOI? And why in the DGS Joe topic, that makes no sense? any special reason?
later</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Return-Path: <atlanta_herper@yahoo.com>
Received: from web13115.mail.yahoo.com (web13115.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.183])

I don't know, you will have to ask him. And most likely since your posts came around the same time that Dickards posts started popping on the corallus.com forums, he and I both figured you are JoePuker or one of his imaginary super cyber defenders. Not to mention, why would he voluntarily let you have his ISP? Is it killing you that you dont know someone in the corallus community?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That was a real nice post, you are a class act, a real winner, I'm sure your wife and kid are real proud of you, you set a good example, your my hero</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Return-Path: <atlanta_herper@yahoo.com>
Received: from web13102.mail.yahoo.com (web13102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.147])

Interesting that you are so concerned for JoePukers damaged reputation. But this email you sent me should be going to Mike not me. It actually proves Mikes post and oppinion to be correct about you.

But since its obvious that you follow the JoePuker thread I will post this response in here for all to see and for you to step up and answer to if you are so inclined to do so.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-15-2002, 08:07 PM
Should anyone here want to get in touch with YOU, I will gladly help them out a bit.

Jack Anonymous
atlanta_herper@yahoo.com
[216.136.174.152]

The Dark Grove
10-15-2002, 10:05 PM
This Thread is more fun to read than just about anything on the internet


It should be titled "How deep of a hole can one dig themself"





I love it. I'm so glad I came out of my cave. No T.V there anyway

Ralph Chapman

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-18-2002, 10:24 PM
Should you need even further proof of his neglect of his animals look at these poor things.

Direct quote from Mr Know it alls posts.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The following examples are from animals in my collection. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Check out the link below to see his not so quality care for his animals

More abused and neglected ETB in his care. (http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?userid=emeralds&album_id=103331)

Danny Mendez
10-19-2002, 06:58 PM
It makes me sick to see those wonderful creatures in such sorry shapes. I was appaulled to see in his post how he describes how one of his snakes developed significantly visible injuries from just "day to day" activities, ths being a "CB'99" animal that he has raised up himself. I'll be damned if an animal in my collection has ever "developed" any repeated injuries. It's the keeper's responsibility to ensure the saftey of their animals. How the heck an animal can develop injuries inside of a properly designed habitat is beyond me...

Clearly a combination of neglect and an improperly designed/outfitted enclosure. I wonder if it was raised in one of JoPee's acrylic cages???

I think I'd be flattered if someone had offered to name a cage after me but if the cage design is causing any harm to it's inhabitants I for one wouldn't want to be associated with it.

ScottsReptiles
10-21-2002, 12:17 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Arboreals of the Rainforest @ Oct. 18 2002,22:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Should you need even further proof of his neglect of his animals look at these poor things.

Direct quote from Mr Know it alls posts.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The following examples are from animals in my collection. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Check out the link below to see his not so quality care for his animals

More abused and neglected ETB in his care. (http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?userid=emeralds&album_id=103331)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I am sorry Tim.. but.. what he is doing on his site is to HELP others. &nbsp;Are you trying to say that you have NEVER had a herp that is damaged in some way? &nbsp;Are you trying to say you have &nbsp;a PERFECT collection? &nbsp;Someone asked him on his board a health question and he clarified different types of scares and wounds. &nbsp;Most long time herpers that I know and speak with... have a collection of pictures of wounds and scares and other things from their herps. &nbsp;

The more you post Tim, the less your words mean. &nbsp;Your postings remind me of that kid in the 3rd grade.. that would keep whining about the same topic well after the teacher (and the class) made up their minds.

Mike Beard
10-21-2002, 08:31 AM
Scott,
I have seen his collection. &nbsp;And I can say for a fact that it is perfect. &nbsp;No scars, burns or damages of any kind. &nbsp;

If Tim doesnt reveal the truth about this guy on a regular basis, then buyers like Nancy would not be so informed. &nbsp;And information is power.

The Dark Grove
10-21-2002, 03:03 PM
After seeing what this guy sold to Nancy Tim is doing everybody a public service by making it known what JoePee is selling. While he can talk the talk, JoePee can't walk the walk and that's what Tim is pointing out.


It's the old saying "Buyer beware" and it takes one or more individuals to get that message out, like Tim in this case.





Ralph Chapman

ScottsReptiles
10-21-2002, 03:34 PM
Tim left out an important part of the last message.. it was in response from someone asking what a particular mark was on their tree boa.

I did a search on yahoo and google for 'tree boa scars' and similar.. and found nothing that documented various types of scars and what might be their causes. &nbsp;

While we might know the difference..there are alot of others who do not. &nbsp;I remember I had a late 20's gentleman come into the store I used to run with a freshly hatched Ball Python that he got from a friend to pay off a debt (the friend owed him 100 bucks.. he gave him one of his eggs as payment since the guy always wanted a snake). &nbsp;He incubated it.. when it hatched was scared it had 'cancer' or some other problem. &nbsp;So he rushed it to the store for us to take a look at it.. he thought it was sick cause about 30% of its body was solid white instead of its normal pattern. &nbsp;Needless to say it wasn't sick (and I about had a heart attack when I opened the snake bag... I was tempted to say it was sick and I would 'dispose' of the snake.. but.. I couldn't do it to the guy..) Obviously.. the 100 dollar debt that the snake was given to him for was paid of .. lol. &nbsp;(why can't I have luck like that?!?!?!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Point of the story... there is a not a lot of information out there about scaring or other wounds. &nbsp;Looking at Tim's site.. I don't see one letter dedicated to arboreal care. &nbsp;Joe might not have sold the best quality herps.. but.. atleast he takes the time to try to educate others.

I think one part of being a good breeder and seller.. is the ability to help those that don't buy your stuff.. but.. thats just IMHO.

I think if you really want to help the arboreal community.. your time could be better spent elsewhere.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
10-21-2002, 05:09 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't see one letter dedicated to arboreal care. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You are sort of correct and incorrect at the same time. If you look closely at the first page you will see 2 links at the bottom where anyone can find all the information on ETB's and GTP's they will ever need. These 2 resource sites are full of very well educated arborealists that can answer almost any question you can toss at them. In addition, they both have lots of articles, care sheets, links to other quality breeders and dealers, and a lot of the latest research already on them. I didn't see a need to type out what has already been done and quite well by older more experiencedbreeders and dealers long before me. But I am providing a way for folks to find out what they need, when they need it, and in my own way on my own site.

Thanks for looking at it.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think one part of being a good breeder and seller.. is the ability to help those that don't buy your stuff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I wander how many folks have been helped out by this thread alone? Past, present and future?

Mike Beard
11-01-2002, 08:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think if you really want to help the arboreal community.. your time could be better spent elsewhere.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Seems Scotty found a place to spend his time elsewhere.

Looks like another JoePuker fan has come out of the closet.

Looks like someone may have some ulterior motives behind his posts. Did you try and attack Tim to get "PERMISSION" to post on Jose Pukers dead forum?

Lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kepp up the good work Tim. &nbsp;Have you seen all the deleted attemps of his to post on KS? &nbsp;I wouild be willing bet anything that being banned for life is just killing him.

The Dark Grove
11-01-2002, 03:09 PM
Really Mike? &nbsp; Jeff at KS is doing such a good job that I didn't know JosePuker was even still trying.....

LOL



Keep up the good work Kingsnake.com!!!!!!!!





Ralph Chapman

ScottsReptiles
11-05-2002, 12:40 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mike Beard @ Nov. 01 2002,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think if you really want to help the arboreal community.. your time could be better spent elsewhere.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Seems Scotty found a place to spend his time elsewhere.

Looks like another JoePuker fan has come out of the closet.

Looks like someone may have some ulterior motives behind his posts. Did you try and attack Tim to get "PERMISSION" to post on Jose Pukers dead forum?

Lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kepp up the good work Tim. Have you seen all the deleted attemps of his to post on KS? I wouild be willing bet anything that being banned for life is just killing him.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No.. I am still here.. but.. my own collection and my own web activites take up too much time as it seems.. trying to fit everything together.


I have been on Joe's forums and listserv well before this thread had started.

Is there a point to your posting?

HerpVenue
11-05-2002, 12:28 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Joe might not have sold the best quality herps.. but.. atleast he takes the time to try to educate others.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I will now handle my gravid boas as much as possible.
That way the babies will be tame. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Danny Mendez
11-05-2002, 03:30 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Joe might not have sold the best quality herps.. but.. atleast he takes the time to try to educate others.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

The problem here is that Joe himself nees ALOT of education. It very common for him to post complete absurdities in a very matter of fact kind of manner. All part of the supurb BS he spews. A few examples, one of which Ritchie already pointed out...

*handling gravid snakes will make babies tamer.
*Using hyrdrogen peroxide to treat eye ailments in snakes is effective.
*Countless theories and stances on regurgitation syndrome. From conducting "studies" (which no one has seen any evidence of) to having hidden "cures". Yeh, well, we know how that all goes eh JoPee...?

JoPee is the master at sounding like he actually knows what he's talking about. It's only though the most recent year(s) of compounded BS that the truth has come to light.

So, in essence...yeh, JoPee may have alot of information to share but the question is do you really want to use it?

Here's some more insight from his website...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Our Goal
Our mission is to research and disseminate important biological, medical and husbandry related information about the all of the animals contained withing the Corallus family As an N.P.O. 100% of our income is returned to the day to day expenditure associated with promoting this goal.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Translation...there's no way in hell that I can sell treeboas since no one will touch animals from my collection with a 10 foot pole so let me find some other way of hiding my income from the IRS.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is some of what we do:
1: Captive-breeding facility: We currently maintain one of the most state of the art, private, Neo-Tropical Husbandry/Research facilities in the world.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

*ROFL* Man, I'm not even gonna touch this one. State of the art reserach facilities? I'd like to see how a room full of tanks makes it a research facility? What research goes on here aside from perhaps creating more inventive ways of killing treeboas.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2: ERS Research: Maintenance and distribution of all recorded information and the findings associated with our three year study.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Riiiight...recording your findings should be all that difficult...it's simply a matter of feeding your snakes and watching them puke.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3: Web-site: We maintain an up to date, state of the art web site offering information on all phases of Corallus Husbandry.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I invite you all to check out the website, pretty much unchanged for a while now...pretty much sums up all of his progress really.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4: Interactive Media: We maintain two FREE public forums where up to minute information can be sought.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Riiight, don't you mean where censorship rules and where you can attack anyone at will without fear of rebuttal?
Hmmm....


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4: Toll Free Help Line: We maintain the only Toll Free Help & Information Line focusing on the Corallus complex in the world. You have a question, we'll try our best to find you the answers.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

In other words...someone call me please....
I'm sooo lonely...

I have a question? Why do you continue to lie and avoid all questions proposed to you here on an unbiased legitimate message board over whic you have no control? Why do you continue to attempt to sell people snakes from your infested collection?

Inquiring minds wanna know?

jusmebabe
11-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Danny thanx that was too funny. Seriously i am still laughing my butt off at the quotes and your repsonses... &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

The Dark Grove
11-05-2002, 05:11 PM
It's amazing how this individual and his closest cronies keep hanging themselves. This thread is more fun to read than the sunday funny pages. Just yesterday somebody asked about buying an Emerald tree boa from one of three people since I don't have any this year for sale. One of the three was JoePee, my answer was that I personally won't buy from that person or anybody who advertises with him. I directed him to this thread and told him to make up his own mind. He E-mailed me back saying that he saw the picture of the eye infection that JoePee had sent out and also wouldn't purchase from him as a result. That's one new corallus keeper who benifited from this thread that I know of.

The longer the thread lasts the more good it does.



Ralph Chapman

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-05-2002, 06:50 PM
Since its educating you want, lets look at this shall we......

Direct words from Mr.Polanco. What appears in ( and bold ) are my words.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All of the circumstances that you have outlined are common to ERS animals in
my experience and that of the 12 individuals whose animals were part of my
two year study from December 1999 to December of 2001. I have detailed event
information on the 20 animals involved at my facility as well as less
comprehensive but none the less helpful files on 22 others. Within that
group the scenarios and events you have outlined are all represented by
multiple animals.

(12 + 20 + 22 = 54 animals just from him that puked)
(Now lets see what trends are in the following shall we???)


**Ten year captive female acquired and fed ravenously for 8 months
(10 years fine, he gets it and it now a puker)

**A pair of CBB animals acquired as babies lacking any 1st tier exposure began
regurgitating within 3 weeks of each other at age 3.
(3 years fine then he turned them into pukers)

**WC female acquired gravid delivers a healthy brood and feeds uneventfully
for 7 months then begins regurgitating. In this case there was no contact
and the animal was not kept in the proximity of any sick animals.
(7 months in his care now a puker)

**A pair of CB juveniles raised for 4 years then both began regurgitating
simultaneously as a reaction to an increase in the frequency of feeding.
(4 years fine and he turned them into pukers)

**A CBB zoo-bred animal was acquired at 4 years of age with no history of
regurgitation but began regurgitating immediately upon arrival. Again zero
exposure.
(4 year old animal that he turned into a puker)

(See the trend. Perfect animals before he gets them. Then whammy he turns them into pukers.)


The accounts continue on in similar fashion and in fact the split of
affected animals is right at a 40/60 ratio, 40% being freshly imported as
compared to the larger number being of the LTC & CB animal group.

(Here is the best part, and he cant see it.)

Explanations? I have nothing at all of a definitive nature.

(Any blind man can see it. He turns them into pukers. Need any more education than that?)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Have you learned anything yet?

The trend is easy to see. He turns animals into pukers and kills them or sells them to unsuspecting victims.

So to Mr. Watley who thinks I am fibbing and stretching the truth. I say these are in fact words directly from your loverboy and all I did was make it known to all. Joe simply validated all my accounts of his total mass killings of ETB in his care.

So where was I fibbing?

ANSWER
NO WHERE

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-05-2002, 08:07 PM
More education for those who need it.

His sites TOS. Notice the highlighted portions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HWForums.com Terms of Service

If you visit a message board that you believe violates these terms, please report them.

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</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-05-2002, 08:17 PM
Admission of GUILT.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Mike H.

Tree Boa Fan

Group: Tree Boa Fan
Posts: 29
Joined: Mar. 2002
Posted: July 05 2002,11:38

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for the record, there is no "poaching" going on, just an invitation we send out to people advertising arboreals to use our free service. It's no different than people who join Link and/or banner exchange services (some people even pay 'website traffic' services who promise to get their sites a high rating in the search engines). Is there something wrong with us advertising our free service? after all it is free to both the buyer and seller and it is for the benefit of the buyers, sellers, and animals.

Don't you have anything else you can sink your obsession into other than our forum and classifieds board?

--------------
Mike H.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-05-2002, 08:29 PM
Evidence of GUILT

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From: "Info"
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: T.A.C. wants YOU! .....well, your ad anyway.
Date: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


TIRED OF "FIGHTING FOR THE TOP"
JUST TO GET YOUR AD SEEN ?

FACT: Targeted Ad Classifieds are many times more effective than their random
shotgun counterparts. Come and see the site that over 500 individual daily users
{all looking for arboreal species} check up to three times daily! Best of all,
our site is a FREE - NON - PROFIT service. That's right, we are Classified
Library Site serving THE ENTIRE ARBOREAL COMMUNITY for FREE !
So Click the link BELOW your picture, jump to our site, post your ad, and see
what a little T.A.C. can do.
Or if you wish, we'll do it for you ! Reply to this email and instruct us to
copy your post to T.A.C. and we'll do so, pictures and all.



100% FREE 100% Arboreal

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I know several of you on here have gotten his spammed invites and reported him already.

Simply do as his hosts ask and report him for violating his TOS. They can be contacted at the following email addy.

webmaster@hwforums.com <webmaster@hwforums.com>

Starting to see a trend yet?

He has no morals and ethics and is as underhanded as you can get.

DON'T let him spam you and get by with it.

EMERALDGUY33
11-10-2002, 11:56 PM
Well, ladies and gentlemen. Due to a glitch, I was able to read old posts on the TBF. i came upon a post entitled "That wasn't nice.". Posted by JoPee. In it, he attacked Tim Bowles. He then included an image/video link. This video was of what appeared to be a mentally challenged person singing a song in a voice making fun of mentally challenged people. This set me off. So I posted saying that was correct. It wasn't nice to post that when he looked like this... I then included a pic of a man bent over with his head inserted in his own backside. I wanted y'all to see his reply. In the hopes that y'all get as many laughs out of it as I have. I will paste the text and then the picture. Enjoy!!

While the board is down a word of advice about giving advice
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Posted by Joe P. on November 10, 2002 at 17:04:17:

In Reply to: THE BOARD IS HAVING SOME TECHNICAL PROBLEMS posted by Joe P. on November 09, 2002 at 20:40:45:




Tina CBB'99 Female

A word of advice about giving strangers advice from one who has lived to regret it on several occasions.

Some months ago a newbie from UTAH ( I necessarily won't use actual names in order to protect the innocent, namely myself. ), we'll just call him John, called me looking for animals and advice on how to best keep Emeralds. I talked to him at some length and tried to bring him to the realization that knowledge comes primarily via "understanding". I stressed the value of communing with the animals, through handling and quiet observation and told him that I believed that the needed level of "understanding" might be more readily achieved through such activities.

Those of you who know or are familiar with me are already aware that I tend to talk metaphorically and I guess I said things like, "Be The Ball" and "Try to think like an emerald" and "try to understand what the animal is feeling" etc. That's a pretty standard part of my rhetoric, and although I truly believe in it, I sometimes forget that not everyone to whom I speak has yet to acheive a complete level of human understanding. Some folks don't play with all the marbles because they simply never got the whole set to begin with. Others figure that learning to roll so many different colors is simply too complicated. Whatever the reason, I take full responsiblity for the short-sighted nature of my council.

The reality of "John's" situation I'm afraid, was that I misjudged him. And in mistakenly believing my meaning to be understood, I failed to make my message completely clear.

Recently he rushed to the ER and ( from an evaluation of his recent posts ) has apparently suffered some irreversible brain damage due to the condition in which he was found. When the Paramedics discovered him, incoherent and babbling, the above picture of Tina was found tightly clutched in his Vasaline covered hand. One can only surmise that he was attempting to enact my advice and "BE THE BALL".

Click this link to see the sad picture of what the Paramedics found that day, but be warned, this is not for the faint of heart!


Kids Don't Try This At Home This Man Is A Professional Moron



The link he provided is to the pic I posted of him. He couldn't even use his own pic. Here is that pic for factual support:

http://www.d-g-s.com/daemons/images/John%20Reese%20Yogi.jpg

Notice the address of this pic. If he deletes it, I will repost this pic with another address so he can't touch it.

Danny Mendez
11-11-2002, 01:34 AM
Just goes to show you what a class act he is, not to mention his originality level.

I posted that picture months ago as a visual representation of Joe's rebuttals, guess he really liked it. He decided to use it now on his forum which is currently not allowing anyone to post because of "technical difficulties" (can we say lock-out?) and is also dying out quicker than a roomful of sick emerlds.

You now, if that forum dies, it will be somewhat sad. Where else can you learn about killing treeboas, see pictures of the same animals 7 times a week, and learn to grout floors and install tile all in the same place?

*sigh*

ScottsReptiles
11-11-2002, 11:56 AM
Just wondering here... for people that can't stand Joe and his website/forum.. you all seem to check it more of then those who post on it... LoL

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-11-2002, 07:22 PM
Read this about your beloved JoeP Scott.

Post Deletions
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Posted by Joe P. on January 27, 2002 at 15:19:33:

Point #1:
After having recieved 30+ emails from almost as many individual people asking me why I continue to tollerate the mudslinging and surreptious

advertising ploys engendered by certain dealers, so, having finally had enough I have broken with tradition and decided to stop allowing this

personal abuse. This is completely subjective decsision for which I alone bear the entire responsibility. If it's veiwed as hypocritical or

anything else, so be it.

Point #2:
Ben Siegel, you can do 1000 good deeds every day and no one will care once you screw up. The bottom line is you screwed me, a good

customer, over and now you what to use this board to whine about the effects of that decision. I'm not your mom (If I were, I would have

stressed a greater appreciation of the salad bar.) and am done listening to your whining and allowing you to abuse me on my own forum. If you

don't like it, start your own, that's what I did.

Incidently, I'm still awaiting my refund from both you and Matt. It's lovely that you guys treat each other and selected others well. I

certainly hope that continues, and maybe even spills over a bit.

Point #3:
This is NOT the "Board Of Inquiry". Here, if you get screwed, we do want to hear about it. If some individual has a legitmate request for

information about another individual, a breeder or a dealer, those posts too are welcomed. What is unwelcomed and will no longer be tollerated

is these poorly veiled attempts at advertising. We have legitimate sponsors who have paid for their space and I welcome you to do likewise.

Both you and Matt obviously continue to make use of the forum, which is fine. The problem is, that your idea of "use" is just that. You are

USING it to promote yourselves and contributing nothing but negative BS. You guys are both herp professionals. If you want to

advertise, then pony up. Email me and I'll gladly give you the dealer rate. Otherwise my suggestion is that you try ADDING something of value

to the forum instead of what you normally, which is nothing because the abuse will no longer stand. If you wish to continue to be able to veiw

and utilize the forum, my recommendation is that you heed this final warning. Your actions have already negatively affected board

policy by being the first to actually cause messages to be deleted. The next move in that direction will be to start using that Ban list which

up until now has also not been done. Consider yourselves warned and I say this publically so that there is NO misunderstanding. Keep

any negative smart ass comments to yourselves. Failure to do so will result in your expulsion, so if you plan on going out with a bang, make

it a good one, because after that you'll have to have one of your many loyal customers email you my reply.

I know none of you to whom I am speaking have made any claims to be wise, but this is a word to you anyway. No more Mr. Bend Over Billy, and

if you are in doubt that this message may actually apply to you too, it probably does.



Here is what the Puker Saleman was so upset about. He started a topic on an annonymous person named "Ben", wink wink, and the replies were all NOT in his favor after describing what the Real BEN had outlined below. Then he started to back peddle in usual Polanco style. Months of the same Polanco jabs and snide remarks about Ben and Matt finally alienated himself from everyone.

Posted by Ben Siegel on July 25, 2001 at 13:43:02:

In Reply to: Question posted by Joe P. on July 25, 2001 at 12:52:41:

let me start by saying i like Joe P--we have talked on he phone numerous times, and i have sold him a hand full of animals never a problem. Today Joe contacts to tell me about a emerald he got from me that is having problems--you may remember it it was a animal i posted for $800 about 3 months ago--really pretty fresh import--joe called and said i would like to buy that one for $475 delivered--i am a good customer and i have sent some customers to you and will continue to send more, but i want to pay $475 on this one--mind you i was asking $800---joe is a good guy and after a little hesitation i said ok--i will ship it to you--i never heard a word other than how nice it was when he first got it---that was may 5th--joe calls and e-mails me today that he is having a problem and that he wants to return that animal for a full credit--and i said joe--it is not our normal policy to take animals that we sell at almost half our asking price back after being notified of a problem almost three months later--i said to him that i do not know of any dealer that would do so 3 weeks later let alone 3 months later--he named a mutual business associate that i do alot of business with as one of the people that would absolutely take that animal back--i said joe--let me think about it and i will call a couple of my peers and get back to you---so i called his source that he said routinely takes back animals long after they have been received---i know him well and explained the situation--HE INSTRUCTED ME TO DO NOTHING-he said that is the most ridiculous thing he has never heard, and would never do anything 3 months later-he told me give him nothing at all--that you are just letting yourself get screwed in this deal---i told him ok and against his advice--called joe and offered him half credit on the animals which was more than i thought i should do, but like i said--i like joe--that was not good enough for him--he said he would send me back half the snake for half the credit(he was joking i am sure)-i said no--keep the snake and i will give you half credit--this was till not good enough-joe continued to tell me how he was going to start a thread on here and then tell every body why he started it after everyone posted that they have bought from me on his advise--then unleash the fact of this story---well i thought i would post my side--again i like joe--sorry i had to lose him as a customer--but i cannot give a 3 month guarantee an animal that was not sold as feeding(it was sol as a fresh import)-3 months after the fact---Joe man--i offered half credit and you keep the animal--that was on your word 3 months later---i cannot do better than that---if i sell one of my guaranteed feeder emeralds--for $350-$1000--and my customers have a problem with it--i take it back--no questions asked--i have sold more than 55 guaranteed feeders this year and have not had one problem--not one phone call back---i have sold to many of the people on this forum and many of them are my long term customers for years--i am sure they can attest to my good nature and fair business practices---i am sorry joe that you have to drag my name through the proverbial mud because you had a problem with a snake you got, but like i said--i am probably the only dealer in the world--that would give even half credit 3 months later on a freshly imported animal---that is not good enough i guess



Joes long awaited back peddle to Bens side of the story, that it has not been in JoePukers favor. At all, by any poster in the thread.

Posted by Joe P. on July 26, 2001 at 01:45:28:

In Reply to: this thread turning into something it was never meant to be??--come on--more inside-PLEASE READ posted by Ben Siegel on July 25, 2001 at 22:48:16:

Well, all this has been very interesting Ben. I imagine that the guilt, compounded by the possible consequences surrounding your decision, must have been too strong a motivator for you to ignore. I did indeed read you the post, directly off the forum, AFTER having posted it, prior to your call back. You see, I had already made my decision with reference to doing any business with you in the future. But nowhere in that post did I reference either you, or anything even remotely associated with the topic you initiated. Apparently you didnít want to wait to see what happened, or where I was going with the thread. I guess you thought that by jumping out you might defuse some as yet unseen time bomb. Well, I can assure you that there would have been no explosion. I choose to do business with those that I find worthy of my business. I choose to recommend those that will reflect well upon me. I donít and didnít jump out and start bashing you. There is NOT A SINGLE REFEREENCE TO YOU or anything even remotely negative or sinister in the original post. This is route is the one you have chosen. Everything that follows is a damn sight more information than I ever would have publicly posted. Certainly, if someone asks, Iíll tell them the truth, what would you prefer? But, since you chose to play your cards face up before the dealer finished dealing, hereís my version of what happened.

On May 3rd I received an animal that Ben had had listed for sale for over a month. The price for which it was listed is irrelevant. Worth vs. value and all that. I paid virtually exactly what I was willing to pay for the animal listed, having offered slightly less than what I believed the animal to be worth and negotiated to a slightly higher figure. No mention of the animal being sold ďAS ISĒ was ever made. No mention of it being sold as a ďnon-feederĒ, ďfresh importĒ or any other deviation from your normal guarantee was ever mentioned. I am NOT an importer, and by the way, neither are you. You have stated that you sell ďAS ISĒ animals right off your list for $225.00 and guaranteed feeding, problem free animals, starting at $350.00.
Correct me if Iím wrong, the $475 I paid is well over the guaranteed price. As far as I was and am concerned, I purchased what was purported to be a problem free animal, fully covered by the usual live arrival and standard feeding assurances, which I assume I had also always done in the past. This is where all of contention has been generated from. You say that because you asked some ridiculous price for the animal, and I paid less that I should expect less. Thank God it was only a snake and not a new car. Sorry Ben, that crap just doesnít cut it with me. In truth, you sold me a bad animal. You donít want to make good on it either because you believe that I created the problem or because somewhere you have come to believe that if I a negotiates to pay less for a service, then they should expect less. Again, you can play that with somebody else, but not with me. I sell that crock and I donít drink from it either.

Now, in order to put this entire thing straight, here is my account of what happened. I remind everyone, what you are reading was generated as a result of Bens actions or reaction to a inane post that made no mention of him, any problem or even anything slightly negative. Read the original post if there is some doubt in your mind. If in fact Ben version of the incident were the truth as I know it (this is not to say that he is lying. Iím sure he believes what he has said) there would be no problem. In fact, there is no problem even though my version of the events donít jive with his. Freshly imported animals can be had by me and most likely anyone else in 10 lots from the same source that supplies Ben. The prices for such animals is quite a bit less (percentage wise) than what he sells his freshly imported singles for. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, itís the nature of the business and who a profit is generated. I believe in my heart that Ben believes he was selling a fresh import. But I can assure you, such was never directly stated to me, and had it been, I would most assuredly not have paid a penny more than what I have paid his source directly for ďspecial animalsĒ, and thatís a damn site less than what I paid. Yes, I negotiated to buy the animal a reduced price, but I never agreed to any reduction in services or guarantee, of that you can be certain.

Hereís the Blow by Blow:

The animal arrived the 3rd, and on the 4th was sent out to the vet for cultures. There it was weighed in, checked for parasites inside and out, and upon return later that day, placed in quarantine. During the evening two days later, after having seemingly settled in to the point of actively hunting, the animal was fed a (4Ē snout to vent) weanling rat. Five days later on the 12th it regurgitated a large cylindrical hairball. Upon dissection, the plug was found to be comprised completely of hair with no other solid matter. Incidental regurgitations are a fact of life with Emeralds. Unpleasant as that may be, although it doesnít happen often, it does happen and is not necessarily a death knoll. That fact (hope) compounded by the fact that this animal was and is one extraordinarily beautiful snake, prejudiced me, impaired my judgment, and in hind sight, perpetuated the only mistake which I will own in this incident. Rather than informing Ben immediately (which actually didnít even occur to me), I decided to wait and see if the animal repeated the problem. Admittedly, the prudent thing to do would have been to inform Ben at the first sign that the animal was having a problem. I didnít. Instead, I made a judgment call based upon the condition of the animal (outwardly perfect), the composition of the regurgitation (primarily not indicating HCL problems), and my relative familiarity with the species in general and more specifically, with ERS in particular. I felt relatively confident that this was an isolated, idiopathic and non-recurrent event. Obviously, my judgment was impaired by my own desire to keep this stunning animal. Plain old wishful thinking.

On the May 20th I again fed the animal and again on the 24th it regurgitated. At that point I opted to run a course of Flagyl through her in an effort to stop the hairball regurgitations. After 5 appropriately spaced half doses, followed by another clean fecal exam, and a full reload treatment with PB8, the animal was fed another weanling rat on the 20th of June. This time no regurgitation ensued. On the 27th she passed a normal solid bowel movement, the bolus of which was composed of the normal feces and hair. Again under microscopic exam she checked out clean. Things were looking up.

On July 4th the animal was fed a small rat (5Ē snout to vent) (yeah, I know, the forth of July and Iím feeding snakesÖ.I have no life). Five days later on the 9th she again regurgitated another hair plug from what was otherwise a fully digested meal. At this point I really should have called it quits and called Ben, but I didnít. Instead, I decided to give it one last go. One more shot at keeping her, after all, these hairball regurgitations were something I had seen before and successfully dealt with. But in truth, I new that more often than not such repetitions inevitably escalate into more serious problems. Again I was being influenced by my love for the beauty of this animal. I didnít want to believe that this was ERS. I was attempting to dismiss the regurgitated hair as part of an adjustment to a foreign diet. I was (as EU once so adeptly put it) in full blown denial.

On the 20th I fed her again and like clockwork on the morning of the 25th I found the regurgitated plug. This time the plug consisted of an undigested skull and the still attached vertebral column as well as the now customary hair. I was finally convinced and new I had to call it quits. I emailed and subsequently called Ben to report the problem and requested an in-store credit against the purchase of a future animal.

Over the course of the past 12 months I have purchased 3 amazons and 4 emeralds from Ben. I have recommended dozens of individuals to him many of which purchased from him. I have even gone as far as to recommend individual animals that he was selling OVER animals that I had for sale! Why? Because this is what I do. I conduct my business with the belief that MY best self-interest lies firmly implanted in the best interest of my customers. This has been the first problem that Iíve had with any of the animals purchased from Ben. While everything was going along well, Ben was happy as hell to take my money, and my recommendations right to the bank. However, at the first sign of trouble, just like some sleazy insurance adjuster, decides to deny the only claim Iíve ever made. In short, Ben sent me a regurgitating snake. When I received the animal it weighed 2.2lbs. It was carrying a normal parasite load, and was as beautiful and outwardly healthy an animal as any I have ever seen. I purchased this animal under the same assumptions that I had previously had, an understanding that it had fed, and had been doing well for him. After all, it had been at his place for at least a month and was listed for sale in his web gallery for an obscene amount of money! (If I had paid more would it not have regurgitated?) I feel completely justified in asking for a full credit. I am returning to him the animal in perfect weight, and virtually in better physical condition than that in which it was received. After all, itís completely parasite free now! L0L! The only difference between this animal now, and this animal when it was sold to me was that I now know, AS DOES BEN, that what he sold me was freezer bait. Now Iím not suggesting that Ben new that when he sold it, Iím feel certain he didnít. But had I decided to pay $600 or $800 for it, would it not have had the same problem? Itís not as if he wouldnít have accepted more money. But does the fact that I negotiated the price down to a more reasonable figure in any way absolve him of his responsibility to back the animal up? In my opinion Ben is using the time factor, which is in this case is a NON-factor as his excuse to shirk his obligation to make good on a bad animal.

In all fairness to Ben, Iím not certain any other big dealer would honor my request either. Maybe that says something about who you should consider buying from. If a dealer canít afford to honor the needs and satisfaction of his customers, then why purchase anything from them? Price? Not hardly! I paid more for this snake from Ben (the big dealer) than I would have had to, had I asked the importer to get it back from Ben and sell it to me directly! But the truth is that I donít begrudge anyone the right or need to make a living. I was and always will be willing to allow Ben or anyone else to make a few dollars off of me as long as there is some value (in this case the warranty so to speak) exchanged in return. Besides, supposedly the more or more often you buy, the better the pricing becomes, right? The more consideration you get, right? The better you are treated, right? Duhhhhh maybe notÖ this might be that learning curve, or wake up call that Paul Lord mentioned in his post.

Well, I tell you this, I certainly honor my customers, and there are plenty of them out there to attest to that. I may not be Ben Siegel Reptiles, but then today, Iím pretty glad of that. Quite simply I believe in treating my customers the way I wish to be treated, the way I expect to be treated, the way I demand to be treated by those vendors with whom I choose to do business!

Was I wrong in not informing Ben immediately? Yes, apparently I was. Would having done so made even the slightest bit of difference in the outcome or condition of this animal? Absolutely not! Offering me half credit back I find insulting. Itís not about the money, it never has been with me and anyone who knows me, knows that! Hell, Iíve already doubled the cost of the animal in vet bills alone! I do for every animal I bring into the collection! Ben, you keep your little money. Hell, retire on it, revel in it! But assured, itís the last of my money, and or any associated business which might come via my recommendations that you will ever see. Every businessman knows, that repeat customers are what garners their success. Iím happy for you that you have enough of them that you can afford to lose some. Thank goodness that there are others willing to keep their word, walk the walk and equitably handle their customers problems and concerns. You see Ben, Iíll accept my culpability in the matter, and Iíll live with it. Both you and I know, all I would have to do is write a simple letter and have the entire thing charged back. Credit card protection is a wonderful thing. But that would be the cheesy thing to do. Accepting half a credit from you be akin to acceptance of half the responsibility for this animals condition. If I believed time to be a relevant factor, I would never have said anything at all, but the fact is, that it played no part at all in what transpired other than to give you an excuse.

In closing Iíll say again that it was never my intention to name Ben Siegel Reptiles publicly at any point during this string. Nor did I intend to divulge any of the details concerning this matter. I had no intention of bringing it out publicly at all! My sole intent was to reinforce to Ben, that I had not only been a very frequent repeat customer, but had also recommended a great many others to him as well. The string was to be used to leverage and hopefully strengthen my case in an effort to have him resolve the matter favorably and equitably for everyone. Unfortunately, thatís not what happened. I donít accept any responsibility for that either.

If after reading this, my position is judged by you to be untenable as several of you indicated previously, then Iíll accept that as a fault, and embrace it as my own. Perhaps Iím just a greedy bastard who wants it all his own way. If so, itís an imperfection Iíll have to live with, whose consequences Iíll have to bear. However, hopefully Iíve made it clear as to why I expect of Ben what I requested. The fact is, that I donít care if Ben has given everyone else on the planet free tree boas 100 times over. What I DO care about is how I was treated on the only occasion I ever had to approach him with a problem. If that seems ridiculous, then so be it, I can live with that too.




Scott, you should really do your homework before jumping into bed with him.

Do a search on this BOI and see which of the two have the most outstanding reputations and which one you will side with.

EMERALDGUY33
11-11-2002, 10:27 PM
Just wondering here... for people that can't stand Joe and his website/forum.. you all seem to check it more of then those who post on it...

And exactly what business is it of yours, Scott? You have no history or dealings that I know of with JoPee. You were not involved in any of this fiasco with him. So why do you feel the need to jump in here and play "Captain Save-a-ho"? I have tried to stay out of this as much as I can. I am sick of all the BS and petty cr@p. But Joe has taken it too far this time. Making fun of mentally challenged people is where I draw the line. Joe has attacked me on many occasions. Like when I used to post on his forum. A person posted a bunch of derogatory posts against Joe. I know who did it, when they did it, and so forth. Yet Joe blames me publicly and immediately bans me so that I can not post a rebuttal. Here are a couplke of posts for background history.

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Posted by Joe P. on March 01, 2002 at 21:19:40:

These lovely preceeding comments are courtesy of John Reese. Perhaps not as
annonymous as you he would have liked, certainly not as intelligent, and
obviously not as witty. I will be deleting these posts, just wanted everyone to
get a look first of what a quality group of folks awaits those who might choose
to check it out what I'm sure will be an invaluable new resource. Both the Fauna
Classifieds "B.O.I." and the SciFi Channels "Crossing over with John Edward" are
equally as informative and valuable a format.



I can't post my reply as it was deleted. But here is what another poster put in response.

Posted by Reptiles on March 01, 2002 at 23:31:30:

In Reply to: The Eliquent Musings Of John Reese Jr. posted by Joe P. on March
01, 2002 at 21:30:23:

the posts were not from John Reese. I know this for a fact. John has nothing
against Joe. Joe did however have a deal fall through with John. John pretty
much just backed out a week ago because he didn't feel comfortable but he has or
had no hard feelings. And John can't defend himself because Joe has banned him
already!


Footnote: Read earlier in this thread. It was Joe whom backed out of the deal.

He says it was my IP address that the derogatory posts were posted from. I denied it as I know that was not the case. He edited the actual IP, copied mine, and then pasted it. Funny thing is, during that time, there was (what he called) a glitch in his board. All posts came back to him as the poster. The IP's and originator e-mail addresses all came back to him. We all like to refer to those times as Joe's "talking to himself" phase. He is sitting there blaming me for those posts when all the posts were coming back to him. *LMFAO*

Scott, you need to go and do some research, boy. Before you jump in on something that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Thank you and have a nice night!!!

GO RAIDERS!!!!

ScottsReptiles
11-11-2002, 11:46 PM
To both Tim and EmeraldGuy:

I have not just jumped into this. I have been following this for much longer then you would ever want to believe (because anything that is against your ideas always seem implausable).

I joined this discussion to give more than just one biased side to the discussion. All that is on here is bad dealings with him. I admit I have never purchased an emerald from him.. but that does not mean I have never had any experiences with him. Joe has been of great help with me via his listserv and through personal emails. He has shown a level of intergrity to me that I see so little of in this industry.

Tim has not shown this level of integrity to me when he would shop in the store that I ran. When I recieved three emeralds that were in bad shape (was sold as LTC.. but.. that was up to debate I think).. I was looking to various people for assistance (I have only worked with Amazon's.. not Emeralds). Joe sent me very detailed emails that gave me ideas and chances to try to save these beautiful snakes. Tim came in the store and mentioned his experience so I asked for his assistance. Tim did not give any thought at all to what might be able to help them.. his exact advice was to put them in the freezer and get it over with now. Through Joe's help.. I was able to get a two of the feeding for a short time (but the owner of the store kept these in display and would constantly try to handle these guys.. which caused obvious stress related issues.. it was very hard for me to watch him do it to them). All that Tim offered was slander (unwarranted) about Joe Polanco.. without showing the least bit of concern for the 1.2 emeralds. Should Tim be potrayed here as 'holier than though'. IMHO no.. and more than just his one side should be posted. This is forum has been created to allow more than one opionion, correct? I don't need to read your posts to make a decision as to who is a good or a bad guy. Actions speak louder then words.. and.. your actions have already (and continue) speaking for you.

EmeraldGuy... I was not part of your problem with Joe so debating a personal issue is of no concern to me or this thread.

On a side note..Tim.. I think you need to learn how to edit your quoted texts.. sheesh...

EMERALDGUY33
11-12-2002, 12:25 AM
I don't need to read your posts to make a decision as to who is a good or a bad guy. Actions speak louder then words.. and.. your actions have already (and continue) speaking for you.

Good. Please add me to your "Do not do business with" list. Frankly, I do not care how I appear to you. There is only a very select group I deal with anyways. I am a private keeper and do not sell anything. So, to be quite honest, you and your feelings are of little concern to me. I am intentionally trying to come off like a jerk on this one.

I'm glad you have such a good rapport with Joe. More power to you. But keep this in mind. When he screws you over, and he will, don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

Thank you and have a good night. :)

WebSlave
11-12-2002, 01:48 AM
don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

No, I'm afraid I have to tell you that is not going to happen. Everyone is entitled to their opinions here as long as they are civil about it. If someone has something to post, then I don't want them to be intimidated by anyone else here or feel that they will get flak simply from stating facts as they understand them, or opinions, about a third party.

Differing opinions are to be expected, and that is what is needed to provide a balanced appraisal of someone to anyone interested in doing business with that someone. No matter how strongly you may feel about someone, I do not want anyone with a differing opinion attacked or badgered about it.

I hope I am clear about this.

EMERALDGUY33
11-12-2002, 02:10 AM
But......

I agree. He has the right to offer a differing opinion. I am not belittling him for it. Nor begrudging him his opinion. I flat out disagree with his opinion, but that is the beauty of free speech.

What I am refering to is not that his opinion differs. It is the fact that he has had more than ample warning. He will get screwed over. No doubt in my mind. Then what? He comes on here or elsewhere and whines and complains about being done wrong? Plays both sides of the fence? If I can help it, not on my watch.

I will respect your wishes as you have made it abundantly clear that this is YOUR site.

Have a good night, Webslave.

The Dark Grove
11-12-2002, 02:32 AM
I'd have to second Webslave on that one. EVERYBODY has the equal right to come here and post their experiences and/or opinions, whether I like it or not.

To Scott,

Initially my e-mails/dealings with JoeP were of a simple nature....he was poaching my ads off of Kingsnake.com and adding them to his site without my permission OR EVEN MY KNOWLEDGE. I found out after someone e-mailed me about posting on his forum. My e-mail was polite and to the point in that I didn't want my ads placed without my permission. He respected my request and asked why I didn't want my ads on his site. In reply I directly and politely explained that currently there seems to be far too much negative things floating around about him and his closest "friends", this said I told him that I'm staying neutral (on the fence) since I haven't had a bad experience from him but that he also hasn't posted under his own name on any forums to address these negative things, which I find odd as any person would take the time to correct errors regarding the things being said.

I stayed neutral until Tim W. jumped on KS and posted a really dumb and uncalled for post under mine which was in response to a newbie asking for information on Aboreals. I e-mailed Joe and told him I'm no longer neutral because of this. After the occasional e-mail from complete strangers , some with the name of "Boelanco" (get original), I'm fully sucked into this mess because of one guy who can't post a reply on a forum he can't control or even use his own name in public.


Scott, if you really want an unbiased side on this forum then get JoePee to start posting back. Your posts don't count for jack $hit any more than mine do but in order to get what you want (an side not "biased" towards him) you need to get JoePee to post so we get it from the horse's mouth.

Doesn't the little fact that he won't post here under his own name bother you or seem strange in the least bit?




Ralph Chapman

WebSlave
11-12-2002, 03:44 AM
I will state for the record here, that although Joe holds this site in apparent contempt, I would not hold that against him if he decides to post here. I will do my best to make sure that he gets to say his piece and I will be very strict about enforcing the rules about flames, personal slurs, or overly heated discusions.

The door is open. The rest is up to him. I don't have the slightest interest in arboreals, so I am completely neutral on the issue. The only personal contact I have had with him was when he threatened to involve me in a lawsuit, and even then, I was perfectly willing to go along with the program.

But I have to admit I am puzzled. Jeff Barringer told me he is involved in a constant battle with Joe to keep him from posting on his site. So there Joe is jumping through all sorts of hoops to post on a site where he is obviously not wanted, but here where he is welcome to post, he does not. Must be the reverse psychology thing, I guess.

Oh well, I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to appear. I've got too much to do here.

ScottsReptiles
11-12-2002, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by EMERALDGUY33
Good. Please add me to your "Do not do business with" list. Frankly, I do not care how I appear to you. There is only a very select group I deal with anyways. I am a private keeper and do not sell anything. So, to be quite honest, you and your feelings are of little concern to me. I am intentionally trying to come off like a jerk on this one.

Again.. I still really have no idea who you are or why I would want to do business with you. Heck.. before this post of yours... I had no idea you ever were a breeder. You are not coming off like a jerk.. more like a 11 year old boy. Please show some signs of maturity here.


I'm glad you have such a good rapport with Joe. More power to you. But keep this in mind. When he screws you over, and he will, don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

Thank you and have a good night. :)

what are you going to do, wait for me out back after school? Is this how you handle people that disagree with your thinking? Intergrity.. Its all about intergrity.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-12-2002, 10:41 AM
Hey Scott
I remember what you told me and I also told I would post it on the very board that Joe owns. You told me that all three where pukers from day one. Here it is, his fix as YOU told it to me in you own words.

Posted by suticat on December 02, 2001 at 19:35:23:

Went to a pet store today to get some feeders and noticed they had ETB's. After talking to the guy for a while he told me that they where pukers. However, they had FIXED it by feeding them very small meals. So after a bit longer discussion and probing I found out even more goodies about ERS. It seems as if someone had told them that in Surinam and in certain populated colonies of ETB's, they are lacking an enzyme in their intestinal tract and stomach acids. The lack of this unkown enzyme causes them to not be able to digest rodents. So in the wild they just dont eat them. Furthermore, it was said that almost all pukers can be converted if they are fed a more realistic diet of foul. Plus it was deffiniteley NOT a virus or bacterial agent.

So this leads to tons of unanswered questions.
1) If it is a lack of enzymes, than how do CBB animals thrive on a diet of rodents for years then after contact with known puker start to puke?
2) Is it that the known puker suddenly triggers a genetic switch in the CBB animal to shut off those enzymes?
3) How come F1 and F2 animals puke after being in contact with a known puker? Especially when its a fact that the parents have NEVER puked on a diet of rodents.
4) Is it because it skips a generation?
5) If it is a genetic abnormality in the certain colonies, why and how is it spread to CBB animals with no familial hisory of puking on rodents?
6) How do you spread a genetic abnormality with physical contact?

Well I could go on and on with this line of questioning, but the theory has so many flaws I wouldn't know where to stop. Hopefully the scientific idealist who spouted this dribble as facts will step forward and answer some of these questions. Plus, if this is the cause, why havent you published your findings and show all the newly turned and thriving on chicks expukers.

Anxiously awaiting your reply and wisdom.


More sound advice from the master.


LMAO

And if you look closely at everyones posts, you will see that the only cure for ERS at this point in time is the FREEZER. Why would you be so willing to spread whatever it is to everything in the store. Perhaps I should contact Rock, he would love a chance to talk about this topic too. After all it was his money and livelyhood you two where messing with.

Wanna see what your beloved JoePuker said in responce to it? After all he was the FIRST to answer spewing his wisdom.



Posted by Joe P. on December 02, 2001 at 21:56:18:

In Reply to: ERS, a NEW theory posted by suticat on December 02, 2001 at 19:35:23:

The wishful thinking and half truths abound whenever this topic is brought up. Sounds like your petshop guy was given quite a big dose of both.

It is true enough that many pukers can be indefinently maintained on a steady diet of chicks and may in fact never puke again as long as you continue to feed them in this manner. However, throw a rodent at them, and I can pretty much guarentee the result.

I had a study animal that after a year of fighting I stumbled onto the chick business. This animal went 8 months without regurgitating. I got brave and fed him (a full grow 4.5' adult male) a small mouse about 45 grams or so. 3 days later, after having faithfully held down a chick every 7 to 10 days ( I feed chick feeders more frequently as they relatively unsubstantial) but 72 hours after his first rodent in close to a calandar year and he took no time to revert to his old habit.

That animal is currently in Atlanta with Paul Lord to whom he was given as part of a group of 5 for research by Pual's company vet. Perhaps Paul can tell us how he's, and the rest of that colony is getting on.

I have a friend here in Cincinnati that has taken up the job of maintaining a colony of exceptional Emeralds that I acquired over the last couple of years that have the malady. He uses chicks to maintain the entire group, and there is the occasional regurgitation, however the group is of normal size and weight and we are actually attempting to breed some of the animals this season. I'll certainly let you all know should anything come of it. I was once told by an avid keeper/breeder of Basin Emeralds that puking females will stop regurgitating while mating and gravid (if they keep eating that is) but will revert to regurgitating within a coulpe of meals after delivery.

In any event, don't be taken in by all of that malarchy. In my opinion ERS is a viralent plague and should be reguarded as incurable.

Unless you are a masachist, don't get involved with known regurgitators.




I guess your a masachist according to your beloved pukersalesman.

So my question to you is this, why on earth would you try to pass off a known puker to a customer?

Could it be GREED? Or are you a Polanco in the making?

The Dark Grove
11-12-2002, 12:40 PM
Eeeewwwwwww....



Ugh, Tim there's no need to call someone a "Poleanco"........


Scott, the problem is this if you are interested.

Anybody who tries to stick up for an individual who has an open invitation from the site moderator to come here stick up for themself, but won't, just isn't received well and for good reason. JoePee has been caught in a number of things, like using different names all coming back to the same ISP or stuff. Since that way doesn't work for him he now uses "mouthpieces", other people and their computers, in an attempt to reply without using his own name. Personally, I'm not sure where you fit in but it sure comes close to one of JoePees attempts to talk through someone else...again.


If you want to make a difference then get JoePee to start posting here and talking. You might mention to Joe that this thread has gone on soooooooo long just because he hasn't posted. Every other such thread has eventually stopped, and each one of those has at least a single ,articulate, reply or more from the person in question. Those who are angry at JoePee would say this is due to the overwhelming amount of lies they can prove he is involved in. JoePee would say this thread is beneath him. He's quite wrong in that thought if that's the case. His name is now famous ,for who knows what reasons exactly , but it's not for anything good on his part. Example:

At the San Diego IRBA show last month I overheard a potential buyer of an ETB ask the seller if it's a "Joe Puker?" What's worse Scott is that the Seller knew enough of that name to reply "I don't sell anything in conditions close to that guy's stuff".


JoePee ignoring this thread and letting it go doesn't help him out one bit, you could help end this thread by just explaining this to him and helping him post.



:D Ralph Chapman

Danny Mendez
11-12-2002, 02:50 PM
At the San Diego IRBA show last month I overheard a potential buyer of an ETB ask the seller if it's a "Joe Puker?" What's worse Scott is that the Seller knew enough of that name to reply "I don't sell anything in conditions close to that guy's stuff".

I for one know my job is done. I don't come hear to argue who is right or wrong for taking who's side but simply for everyone to know about JoePee and his pukers along with the Ora of BS that surrounds him.

Scott, you are completely entitled to your opinions on JoPee based on your experiences with him. I think the reason everyone jumped down your throat is because they all once stood where you do, where perspective tells you that Joe isn't as bad as all the hype surrounding him. But just like you eventually will find out...others have learned the hard way and are just trying to prevent you from making their mistakes.



I for one know that if JoPee made an appearance on this site (which he visits daily) I would conduct myself in an adult manner and not resort to namecalling or insults. I'd simply want to ask some simple questions. Once again, an open invitation stands JoPee.

Karen Clark
11-12-2002, 03:51 PM
Guys, I've stayed out of this for a long time now, basically because I've never bought from Joe, nor from any of the others (except 1 animal one time) involved in this thread, so I have no personal experience to draw from, just what amounts to heresay. I do wish Joe would answer these accusations simply because this has gone on for so long, although that is probably never going to happen.

The point of my posting is this. Several of you have written that should he choose to post, you would act in an adult manner, i.e. no flaming, name calling, etc., etc. YET, more than one of you continue to use JoePee in your posts. Can anyone say derogatory????? Why in the world would he even consider posting when invitations to post and carry on a civil discourse contain a derogatory derivative of his name? I certainly wouldn't, would you?

Karen Clark

Neil Gubitz
11-12-2002, 04:15 PM
OUCH!.... That's gotta hurt!

....Neil

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-12-2002, 04:25 PM
Hey Scott,
When I finally did confront him based on what you told me he said, this was his relpy.

Posted by Joe P. on January 08, 2002 at 18:32:13:

In Reply to: Gald to here your done back peddeling and spin doctoring.... posted by suticat on January 08, 2002 at 17:43:39:

If you want a good laugh, please read the messages following the link that Tim, posted. Then please feel free to tell me, is it me? Am I just missing the the whole thing? Am I the looney one?

I think I have the ability to read and discern the written word on at least an above average level. Apparently that is more of a talent than some folks can muster. Auguments with the completely insane are'nt battles you can win, so I'll have to withdraw now.

Please, if it's me, let me know so I can eat a bullet! hehehehe




So either you fibbed and he was telling the truth, or you where telling the truth and he fibbed, take your pick. But one of you smells like a puked up rodent.

So one more question for you Scott, where are the pukers that you claimed to have fixed via JoePees help?

ScottsReptiles
11-12-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Arboreals of the Rainforest
Hey Scott
I remember what you told me and I also told I would post it on the very board that Joe owns. You told me that all three where pukers from day one. Here it is, his fix as YOU told it to me in you own words.

Perhaps I should contact Rock, he would love a chance to talk about this topic too. After all it was his money and livelyhood you two where messing with.

Wanna see what your beloved JoePuker said in responce to it? After all he was the FIRST to answer spewing his wisdom.

[/B]

First off.. I never said it wasn't bacterial.. that was never brought up.. I was not aware that they all were pukers from day one. I was told to try chicks (which we never got ahold of.... I kept wanting to try but they were unattainable). Also, with nothing to hide.. I disclosed the information to all potential buyers that they were wild caught and problem feeders.. but did not know the cause. Two of them were able to hold down and seem to improve eating the smaller prey. One of the males never seemed to catch on to anything we tried. I still believe that stress more than anything killed those ETBs.

If you feel the need to contact Rocky.. be my guest. I worked my a$$ off in that store 10 hours a day for nearly a year while attending school.. I put all of my resources I had available to me in that store and stayed with it as long as I could. I have no hard feelings of what I did while I was manager of that store. At the end of the day everything I did with each herp was documented or told to Rocky. Contacting him should provide no new information. He was kept in the full circle before anything was done reguarding the ETBs or anything else I was rehabilitating and caring for. But this information isn't really appropriate in this thread, is it? Or will you start threatning me other ways as well?

ScottsReptiles
11-12-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Arboreals of the Rainforest
So one more question for you Scott, where are the pukers that you claimed to have fixed via JoePees help?

I had never claimed to have fixed them and even openly admitted on this forum and to you personally in the store that all three had passed. I also stated that I feel it was also stress related. How many times must I repeat this?

I have claimed and will continue to claim that I tried to help them. If want to attack me for that.. be my guest.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-12-2002, 05:29 PM
Funny thing is I gave you the address to the site on the back of a biz card for you to watch the responces to what you told me was said between you and JoePee when it was made public. I remember how excited you were to see his reactions when faced with it in public and in front of the corallus communtiy.

I had never claimed to have fixed them and even openly admitted on this forum and to you personally in the store that all three had passed.

Through Joe's help.. I was able to get a two of the feeding for a short time...

You simply failed to mention in your posts where you were so upset with me for telling you to you get it over with and freeze them becuase the fact of the matter is there is no cure for ERS that you ultimately killed them. You failed to mention that I was right and that they died anyway after suffering in your care and failed treatments. As painfull as it is on the animals, it was better than watching them suffer threw proven failed treatments. Which is what happened by your hands and own admition with Joepees help and guidance.

So between you and Joepee, you decided to try chicks(even though you couldnt find them). Everyone in ETB knows about the chicks trick to keep them going for a short time. Sadly and ultimatley it fails too and its an underhanded way to rip off unsuspecting customers. Talk about a level of integrity. Geeesh thats low.

This leads me to my next questions.

Why chicks if they were not pukers?
Could it be to keep them hanging on deaths door long enough to sell them?
Why would you sell a known puker to the public?
Why would you house 3 known pukers in the same 2x2x2 cage or 2 feeders and 1 puker or what ever combo you wish to claim now?



I have claimed and will continue to claim that I tried to help them.
I can totally sympathize with you on this one Scott. I have been there and done that with the puker Joe tried to pawn off on me. But the advice I gave you was sound, the least traumatic to the animals, the owners, and all the possible new carriers you could have infected in your store. Think of how they suffered regurge after regurge after regurge until they passed.

If want to attack me for that.. be my guest.
I have not attacked you nor will I. I am simply pointing out the truth for all to see. I would also ask that everyone else think about where Scott is, and sadly we where all there once. One day he will see the light and the truth about JoeP. He is just in denial about his new buddies history.

ScottsReptiles
11-12-2002, 06:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arboreals of the Rainforest
You simply failed to mention in your posts where you were so upset with me for telling you to you get it over with and freeze them becuase the fact of the matter is there is no cure for ERS that you ultimately killed them.This leads me to my next questions.

Why chicks if they were not pukers?

I never said they weren't pukers
Could it be to keep them hanging on deaths door long enough to sell them?
Why would you sell a known puker to the public?

I was offering them to experienced keepers and the other public at cost that Rock paid for them to try to give them a better chance. At no time did I not disclose that they were puking. I did not have these in my care for a long enough time to 100% say it was ERS. I have had many snakes puke their first meals that have gone on to live long lives once they left the high stress environment of a herp store.
Why would you house 3 known pukers in the same 2x2x2 cage or 2 feeders and 1 puker or what ever combo you wish to claim now?

I constantly asked Rocky to fix the large quarentine cage in the back room to put them there out of the display tanks, but my requests were never fulfilled. He handled all of the construction work and the cage back there that would have been suitable for them needed it badly. It wasn't my store and I could only do so much. For the last week the best I was able to convince him to do was allow me to put a piece of cardboard infront of the cage to act as a barrier.. Unfortunately this was too little too late and did not help them. I couldn't stand those cages that he had built.. horrible for heating and decorating properly and the ventilation system.. well.. sucked. I was completely against keeping them there from the first moment them came in door.



I can totally sympathize with you on this one Scott. I have been there and done that with the puker Joe tried to pawn off on me. But the advice I gave you was sound, the least traumatic to the animals, the owners, and all the possible new carriers you could have infected in your store. Think of how they suffered regurge after regurge after regurge until they passed.

this has been talked about in great debate for awhile now on various boards I am on.. but.. Freezing is not considered a quick and painless death.. often taking a full 24 hours or more for the animal to die. Granted.. who is to say one way of dieing is better than the other.. but.. I would have just liked to have given them a better chance.. as I would with any.

There are many aspects of human digestion that are still popping up and various life stages. I became lactose intolerant and the age of 18, my brother at the age of 24. Up unitl them I was completely able to digest dairy food.. then.. woke up one day and it make me sick. What is to say that something like this couldn't be true in snake digestion as well. Even though as it seems.. all pukers are destined for death.. it would be interesting if more tried various food items to see if there might be something they could eat. If they are doing to die anyways.. why not experiment with them a little.. but.. thats another subject completely

I have not attacked you nor will I. I am simply pointing out the truth for all to see. I would also ask that everyone else think about where Scott is, and sadly we where all there once. One day he will see the light and the truth about JoeP. He is just in denial about his new buddies history.

sorry then.. I took the calling the old owner seemed like a threat for some reason.. my bad :-p

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-12-2002, 07:11 PM
I would have just liked to have given them a better chance.As would we all.

Sad fact is, some diseases processes/disorders (known causative agents or not) are nonreversable and ultimately lead to death despite our best intentions. Either way you went with those guys, it was a tough choice to make and live with. I know the feeling all to well.
sorry then.. I took the calling the old owner seemed like a threat for some reason.. my bad :-p Accepted.

The Dark Grove
11-12-2002, 11:35 PM
Ugh,

Ok Karen point taken. I'll stop referring to Joe(!) as such if he stops e-mailing and posting using other names (which just adds more of a "negative" aura to all this).

Now if somebody could get Joe(!) to post a little then maybe this thread can flare up and then flare out and it'll be done with.



Ya hear me Joe(!) ?


Ralph Chapman

Ghi Reptiles
11-13-2002, 11:49 PM
Hey Ralph,

The only way this thread will flare out is if everyone quits posting. I have talked to some of the guys here and they all say the same thing...it is just all in good FUN. This has been going on for years and I have heard that the BOI's would be boring if it weren't for the razzing. This is kind of set up like the Jerry Springer show. The guys involved get egged on by others to make it interesting. Do you think that Scott would really make a statement like If you want to attack me for that be my guest. Or this one, Or will you start threatning me other ways as well? No, me neither. In my opinion, he was looking for confrontation in return for the statements. It's all part of the fun right guys. So I think this thread will end when you guys want the fun to end.:D

ScottsReptiles
11-13-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Ghi Reptiles
Hey Ralph,

The only way this thread will flare out is if everyone quits posting. I have talked to some of the guys here and they all say the same thing...it is just all in good FUN. This has been going on for years and I have heard that the BOI's would be boring if it weren't for the razzing. This is kind of set up like the Jerry Springer show. The guys involved get egged on by others to make it interesting. Do you think that Scott would really make a statement like If you want to attack me for that be my guest. Or this one, Or will you start threatning me other ways as well? No, me neither. In my opinion, he was looking for confrontation in return for the statements. It's all part of the fun right guys. So I think this thread will end when you guys want the fun to end.:D

Actually.. that comment was because I misunderstood a personal comment that Tim made that is irrelevant to others unless they were personally involved. I cleared up confusion about the post and apologized for making that assumption. There was no hidden meaning behind it.

Ghi Reptiles
11-14-2002, 12:03 AM
Great , then that should be the end of it.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-14-2002, 12:18 PM
This is just to rich not to share. After such a nice pile of donkey doo was spread for all to see, Joe just deleted all the responces asking about forum moderation. Why? Well read back through the 30-ish pages of this thread and see why.



Re: Forum Moderation
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Boa Kingdom ] [ FAQ ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Mike H. on November 25, 2001 at 10:52:28:

In Reply to: You mean way to little don't you? (long, 2 part message) posted by Joe P. on November 25, 2001 at 04:42:04:

Just to address the issue of forum moderation that Joe brought up, I'd like to share some of my thoughts....

As a moderator/moderators, you have to set rules of conduct and content, and you have to enforce them evenly and even follow them yourself. Moderators can't expect to please everyone, if you strive for that goal you won't be able to moderate fairly and evenly. The goal a moderator should strive for is to be respected by forum participants, and this happens by them witnessing the way you moderate. If moderators start deleting posts or threads just because they personally don't approve of the content, the direction of the conversations, the husbandry practice being discussed, or because a personal friend of theirs is under attack, is an abuse of power. By doing this you loose the respect of the forum participants and the forum's integrity would deteriorate.

Here's an example...
A few months ago, some of you will remember a thread that developed about a purchase Joe made, and the question of whether or not there was a guarantee and, if so, the specifics of that guarantee. There were lots of opinions voiced, lots of past experiences talked about, lots of phone calls & emails exchanged during this thread. Many people seemed to side against Joe on this issue. Joe showed his true colors by not deleting that thread. I was considering removing the entire thread after it had been up long enough for everyone to have their say. I felt like discussing/argueing about the details of a past business transaction wasn't within the guidelines of topics allowed (although we do allow inquiries about sellers and reporting rip-offs). A lot of times, when a new visitor who's a new tree boa owner gets here for the first time, they like to go pretty far back reading all the posts that may interest them. I didn't want that thread to side-track them like a car wreck on the side of the road. I thought it over and let it stay. I also wanted to protect the reputations of both people. This was an isolated incident, and wasn't typical for either of these two people to not be able to settle buyer/seller problems. Joe's a friend of mine, and the seller, Ben Siegel, is a well respected dealer who sells high quality animals. I didn't want any new visitors to get a wrong first impression of either of these guys. I also didn't want anyone to question whether or not I was being biased by removing a thread that may have been unfavorable to another moderator here. By doing so I may have lost the respect of some of you guys, and at the same time, cost the forum some of it's credibility.

In closing...
I'd just like to say, if anyone has any questions or comments about forum moderation issues, feel free to post them here. All moderation discussions should be open to all forum members, after all, it's your forum. Something just doesn't seem right/fair about keeping forum/moderation complaints a secret and discussed only in private.

I hope I worded this well so that my points were all well taken :) Feel free to comment.


Follow Ups:


By Mikes own admission, what Joe was/is doing is an abuse of power. How many multitude of posts got deleted for simply asking "Why are you deleting my posts?"

What a pair of phonies these two have proven to be.

It's alright to question anyone but them, even after Joes lame attempts to burn out Matt and Ben for Joe turning healthy animals into pukers.

What is your death toll up to now Joepuker?

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-14-2002, 10:25 PM
More hipocracy from the mouth of the master regurgitator.......

You mean way to little don't you? (long, 2 part message)
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Boa Kingdom ] [ FAQ ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Joe P. on November 25, 2001 at 04:42:04:

In Reply to: way too much extrapolation posted by Jack Sadovnik on November 23, 2001 at 14:57:17:

First Iíd like to clear the air a bit. I have received a number of private emails expressing some disapproval with the tone of Jack Sadovniks reply to my original post in the ďInherent DifferencesĒ string. Rather than answer them individually, Iíd like to use the forum to emphasize an important point, one that has been at issue of late in another, not unrelated forum, that being the issue of free expression.

While I find Jackís post both direct and challenging, I found nothing about it either defamatory or personally offensive. In my opinion the post expresses a view held not only by Jack, but one commonly shared by many captive breeder. Whether I, as a forum moderator, agree or disagree with that (or any other) opinion, be it in my opinion right or wrong, the expression of opinions, ideas, concepts, theories and postulations are the highest possible purpose I can imagine for this or any forum. Not only are they generally welcomed here on the forum, but, in the original post itself I went out of my way to ask for and encourage responses!

Would it not be the ultimate in hypocrisy to on the one hand encourage individual expression and on the other attempt to quash it? And why? Simply because an expression runs contrary to my own or even the current popular position is certainly no justification. Such an act would appear petty and vindictive at best and downright ignorant at worst. I would no more think to do that than I would to publicly post the private emails I received on the matter. So for those who did email me, the confidence in which you expressed yourselves is secure and I trust this answers your questions.

Now, onto the real business of this forum....



So why did he try and squash the overwhelming popular position of the majority when it wasn't in his favor?

1) to appear petty?
2) to be vindicitive at best?
3) or down right ignorant at worst?

Take your pick from his own list.

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-20-2002, 07:03 PM
More jewels of the past. By the way, this got deleted as well. And when you find out who it was from it will shock you.

A clue, he is one of the most honest and well respected herpers in the arboreal world. One of the elite as it were.


The Truth The Whole Truth and Nothin but the Truth!
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Boa Kingdom ] [ FAQ ]

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This forum is starting to remind me of another forum I used to frequent until the Moderators became "Holier than Thou". What really stinks is that it drives people who actually have knowledge on these animals away.

This forum is really starting to turn into a power trip. The moderators can dish it out, but when confronted - bye bye with push of a button! What are the almighty on this forum so afraid of - The Truth? I find it amazing Joe that you actually threaten people physically over the internet. I have seen first hand how tough you actually are or aren't in this case, but we don't need to open that can of worms. You always say that you can "walk the walk" and your one of the most "high profile" people in the emerald world today. I would simply like to know how you can back that up? I know it's not because of your stellar healthy collection or all the offspring that you have produced - so what is it? If you say you can walk the walk and not just talk the talk - we would all like to see what has made you so "high profile"!

My suggestion is that Joe Polanco step down as moderator of this forum and strictly be a participant. As a moderator one must be unbiased and hold themselves above everyone else in there behavior. That certainly has not happened with Joe at the healm.

Everything that has been stated here is the TRUTH - like it or not! Not one lie or exagerated statement. Lets all see if the moderation team of the Tree Boa Forum are humble enough to let these facts stand. I'm confident that they can't handle the truth - so nice knowin ya!




Follow Ups:

Arboreals of the Rainforest
11-24-2002, 03:05 PM
Posted by Joe P. <mailto:emeralds@d-g-s.com> on November 19, 2002 at 21:04:37:


...My favorite animal, (a stunning black female acquired from Ken Naugher) named
Katie <http://www.d-g-s.com/daemons/images/K101-1.jpg> who had been bred but alas delivered five premature still-born babies in Nov.'01 contracted a URI during her recovery from birthing. I fought that bug for well over 6 months but lost her.
That's only one story, there are many others... The only consolation is that we manage to win more than we lose and along the way it's quite a kick just looking around and seeing the results of your efforts.

Joe P. (a guy who's Been There, Done That, & Got That Tee ****)




Another victim DEAD by his husbandry. (http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=suticat&album_id=113804&image_id=0&courtesy=1)


55 DEAD and still counting.......

EMERALDGUY33
11-28-2002, 03:04 AM
This e-mail was forwarded to me by a good friend:

Subject: Fw: Paul Newstead finally gets what he deserves.
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:15:59 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: Emeralds
To: Mike Odette Heinrich ; Tony Nicoli
Cc: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: Paul Newstead finally gets what he deserves.


What an unexpected pleasure this was. :))))

Chew on this Paul Newstead, whose your daddy now? Couldn't have happened to a
nicer guy either.




Tim Bowels, your next so you better get that legal team ready.


The following image was attached to the e-mail:

http://photo.redtailboa.org/albums/albuo45/Newstead_Bite_Me.jpg

Yes folks, Mr. Sue Happy Polanco continues his litigious ways.

EMERALDGUY33
11-28-2002, 03:07 AM
http://photo.redtailboa.org/albums/albuo45/copy_of_joe_polanco_tmp.jpg

EMERALDGUY33
11-28-2002, 03:23 AM
Look at the destination of the original e-mail. One of the destinations was Mike Heinrich. Joe's partner/co-moderator/only friend/protector/defender on the Terminal Boa Forum. Yeah, Mikey. You sure are just an innocent bystander in all of this. LMAO!!! WHATEVER.

BTW, Tim. When Joe finally sues you as he has been threatening to for so long, please have me served with a subpeona. I have some very crucial information to add, as well as an ever-expanding file of threatening e-mails, pictures, and such to provide your attorney. I am fully willing to testify under oath.

HerpVenue
11-28-2002, 04:20 AM
edited...
I had distasteful language here.


Hey has he even showed up to any Columbus shows lately?
You know....the one he says he never misses

EMERALDGUY33
11-28-2002, 12:46 PM
Was that an edited quote directed at me in retaliation for my recent posts?

HerpVenue
11-28-2002, 02:20 PM
of course not.....
I had a whole paragraph for joe...
But I decided he was not worth my time and effort and troubles.
and I had some mispellings....so I edited it.