Help... multiple parasites

[bullfrog100000]

Hi all,
Got the fecal tests back on our 2 new lizards... here are the results...

The beardie has:
Coccidia
Trichomonads
Pinworms
she weighs 125 grams & 5 mo. old

The mountain horned dragon (wild caught btw) has:
Coccidia
Cappilaria
Trichomonads
Giardia
Pinworms
she weighs 61 grams and is close to a year probably...

How do we treat, with what, how much, where do we get the stuff, etc...
Thanks a bunch.

[hhmoore]

Hi all,
Got the fecal tests back on our 2 new lizards... here are the results...

How do we treat, with what, how much, where do we get the stuff, etc...
Thanks a bunch.
I'm guessing that it wasn't a vet that did the fecal tests, or you would already have those answers. Unless of course, you refused to follow up with treatment because you figured you could do it yourself for cheaper.
Well, you can...for the most part, at least; but going through the vet would have saved you a lot of headaches. Now, you will have to purchase far more medication than you need, syringes for dosing, and (ideally) catheters for administration. You'll also have to figure out the proper dose, and dilute the medication to a suitable concentration to obtain that dose in a workable volume. The combination of fenbendazole and metronidazole will work for most of the stuff you listed, but I believe sulfadimethoxine is the DOC for coccidia. All are administered orally. I know fenbendazole is available without a prescription, but I am not sure about the other two. I'm too tired to think about calculating doses, besides, there are sometimes animal specific concerns that I wouldn't be able to inform you of (that is another one of the benefits of going through your vet)

Keeping the enclosure, as well as food & water bowls, cleaned/disinfected is important during the treatment phase.

[bullfrog100000]

Hey, thanks for the response. We ended up getting a bunch of info today and a nice surprise from the breeder who sold us one of them.
Actually, we did go through a vet, yes they would of course do a follow up for around $100.
Once we called the breeder and said, "hey look what the lizards have" she is now sending us all meds, supplies, and dosage info based on their weights at no charge. It's being overnighted. She's sending us Flagyll, Albon, and Panacur and some other natural stuff, including probiotics for lizards. So it turns out it's not really much headache, except for the actual administration of the meds, which we'd have to do either way... and one of them is really stubborn.
Of course we wanted to do it cheaper! Who wouldn't. The vet would have wanted to see the animals, not just give us the parasite meds. And actually we have since heard that this "reptile vet" isn't all that hot.
My roommate has had enough experience with reptiles, and worked with a vet for a while that dealt with herps, that a visual check by a vet isn't really needed.

[hhmoore]

Just for the record, fenbendazole = Panacur, metronidazole = Flagyl, and sulfadimethoxine = Albon.
I wasn't being critical of wanting to do it cheaper...but trying to do it cheaper when you don't know what you are doing is generally not the best approach. And asking online is not always a winning proposition, since you never know who is going to respond (or how accurate their information is)
Glad it worked out for you

[hhmoore]

Actually, we did go through a vet, yes they would of course do a follow up for around $100........The vet would have wanted to see the animals, not just give us the parasite meds. And actually we have since heard that this "reptile vet" isn't all that hot. My roommate has had enough experience with reptiles, and worked with a vet for a while that dealt with herps, that a visual check by a vet isn't really needed..
So, I stand behind my initial comment, that the fecal exam was not done by a vet, despite your initial protest. Fecal exams are not all that hard to do, differentiating the different organisms is the most difficult part...and even if something was missed, or misidentified, you still have pretty broad coverage with the meds being supplied.
One last comment - a tribute to my user title - you shouldn't be dishonest with the people you are turning to for help. Regardless of your intention, or the extent of the "lie", it leaves a bad feeling. I won't bother responding to your questions in the future.

[bullfrog100000]

Wow ! The fecal was in fact done by a qualified vet. At his office , The results metered out by his nurse/vet tech. A bill paid! Which is how we know what the different organisms are. What my roomy was saying is that due to my experience of working w/ a vet who worked w/ herps for awhile, (also a friend. ) WAS --that she didn't feel the 'visual' check up of the animals 'outward' condition was crucial at this point w/ the vet ( for the beardy at least) Since physically they pass a visual inspection or they would not have been purchased to begin with. I have purchased, resqued many lizards over the years. We have only had them about a week at this point. She was not saying ,and did not lie about the fecal 's being examined by the vet office. No doubt and lets face it, the vet didn't do the actual exam himself anyway for that matter, probably somebody like my self , IE: 'an assistant ' did it as is generally case at a busy vet., office. And then... the 'assistant' called w/ the results. The vet himself has yet to be at all involved at this point anyway! Other then the use of his name! So as far as lying -she did not lie, that has never been a trait of either of ours and never will. I feel it would be pointless to ask people for help and give them wrong info. as then you would clearly run the risk of getting wrong answers! Much like going to therapist and lying about bad behavior and expecting them to be able to give you the right advice or guidance to change it!
We both have charactor thank you very much, Apparently your experience w/ others have not all been so. Neither have mine and I wouldn't appreciate a liar at all myself. That said I would certainly be sure/double check/ ask politely...that .. I totally understood what someone said before blatantly calling them a liar publicly. You might consider Pm-ing someone next time you get that urge. Gigi

[bullfrog100000]

rescued

[hhmoore]

Wow ! The fecal was in fact done by a qualified vet. At his office , The results metered out by his nurse/vet tech. A bill paid! Which is how we know what the different organisms are. What my roomy was saying is that due to my experience of working w/ a vet who worked w/ herps for awhile, (also a friend. ) WAS --that she didn't feel the 'visual' check up of the animals 'outward' condition was crucial at this point w/ the vet ( for the beardy at least) Since physically they pass a visual inspection or they would not have been purchased to begin with. I have purchased, resqued many lizards over the years. We have only had them about a week at this point. She was not saying ,and did not lie about the fecal 's being examined by the vet office. No doubt and lets face it, the vet didn't do the actual exam himself anyway for that matter, probably somebody like my self , IE: 'an assistant ' did it as is generally case at a busy vet., office. And then... the 'assistant' called w/ the results. The vet himself has yet to be at all involved at this point anyway! Other then the use of his name! So as far as lying -she did not lie, that has never been a trait of either of ours and never will. I feel it would be pointless to ask people for help and give them wrong info. as then you would clearly run the risk of getting wrong answers! Much like going to therapist and lying about bad behavior and expecting them to be able to give you the right advice or guidance to change it!
We both have charactor thank you very much, Apparently your experience w/ others have not all been so. Neither have mine and I wouldn't appreciate a liar at all myself. That said I would certainly be sure/double check/ ask politely...that .. I totally understood what someone said before blatantly calling them a liar publicly. You might consider Pm-ing someone next time you get that urge. Gigi
First of all, Gigi - if you are going to post here, you should register/use your own account.
Now then - For the record, I didn't misunderstand as much as you seem to think. I know very well how things work in a vet's office, and who does what. Sometimes fecals will be done without an animal ever having been seen - this is most likely to be allowed if there is already a client relationship. In one rendition of my prior post, I speculated that it wasn't an official visit - more of a side door approach via somebody you knew - to get the fecal done. Even with that approach, though, it seems pretty strange that she would be walking away not knowing how to treat the problems...or that you would not already have a good idea, due to both your reptile and work experience. Maybe you did :shrug01:
My point really had nothing to do with whether a vet was actually involved. I fully agree that, except for the dr/pt requirement, there is not a real strong need for a vet to be involved with a fecal exam. It is s**t work, literally and figuratively...and routinely done by vet assistants. Sometimes a vet may actually inspect the slide, if there is something unusual or unidentified - but anyway...
My initial statement was "I'm guessing that it wasn't a vet that did the fecal tests, or you would already have those answers. Unless of course, you refused to follow up with treatment because you figured you could do it yourself for cheaper." The response "Actually, we did go through a vet", the implication seeming to be that the animals were seen by a vet. Then there was rationalization as to why that didn't occur. If I felt strongly that your roommate was lying with the intent to deceive/cause harm, I would have no problem saying so. In this case, again, subject to interpretation, I suppose, I felt that things were being slightly misrepresented. That was why I referenced her intention & used quotation marks when I mentioned the extent of the "lie". Apparently this was one of those cases that I could have expressed myself differently. Either way, I still feel the way I do about what I perceived to be a misrepresentation, and you still feel the way you do about my characterization of it.
My comment in my second post remains unchanged and sincere - I'm glad it worked out for you. (both of you)

[bullfrog100000]

Picky picky, all about the exact phrasing? :eek:
We hurried to get the samples in to get the info. 'through a vets office' Figured even if he had a kind of lousy reputation he should at least be good for fecals! There are more highly recommended vets in town, but they were not where we had time in our schedules to drop the samples on short notice. Should we need serious vet, care we will consult the other vet.
Maybe I've been lucky but it has been my experience that any vet (veterinary office) I've ever called has been willing to take a fecal sample whether I'd had a pet there or not?
RE: 'through a vets office'.. (The response "Actually, we did go through a vet", the implication seeming to be that the animals were seen by a vet.) She never said 'seen', she said it was done through a vet., per this very quote...Ok through a vets office! Again: :eek: ..

Either way, I still feel the way I do about what I perceived to be a misrepresentation, and you still feel the way you do about my characterization of it. Please note that there are two other threads we are involved in on this subject at this time. In those threads you would see that there is no attempt subtle ,subconsciously or other wise to misrepresent or mislead anyone as to our actions in this ongoing saga. The subject has been gone into more deeply and our actions clearly outlined and discussed w/ the people communicating with us.
Anyway...We still can't get in for 4 more days even w/ the vet office where we got the fecals done! So no it wasn't a back door thing we are new to the area we live in . So we do not know this vet, he was the only reptile vet we heard about nearby. (via a local pet store) We dropped them off on the way into work knowing we would be out of town after work until late this evening..So the way we got the info. on the fecal results was a phone call from them to tell us what they found. They gave no other info. as to treatment. only asked if we wished to set an appt. w/ the vet. We will pick up the actual paper work tomorrow when we are actually in town in time to do so. .This is why there was not other instruction.
As to my experience I don't claim to be an expert on any level . When I did my work w/ the vet., was some time ago and before the many many things that are known now. 10 or 15 years ago most of these meds,and certainly supplements didn't exist at least not suggested for use in reptiles. However some things have not changed so much. And I also had at least 50 of my own various types of lizards and frogs to gain experience with during that time. I / We do try to do our homework and research many different sources. we have frequented every rep show for two years ( including some out of town) and spent lots of time talking and asking questions,going to the seminars, getting lessons and tips from breeders and vets in attendance.. Somebody 'say' breeding MHD's can sometimes have insight or experience/knowledge a vet does not. Vet's not unlike medical doctors often have a very -either poor view or no view of for instance alternative methods. This is often the case w/ cats. I have never had either a bearded dragon or a mountain horned. So my way is to ask and ask some more from people who have, to include vets, zoo keepers, breeders etc. what was working a couple years ago may already have been changed this year in many cases, etc. IE: I wouldn't presume / or assume a treatment of any thing w/ out consulting other sources. In any case what ever the experience on my part there were still questions as to which things I want to treat in which order to cause the least stress on the animals especially the sick one. How might we consolidate the meds to treat more then one of the bugs at a time. Example: One broad spectrum med., instead of three separate meds.etc.. The pets and getting the right info. to get and keep them healthy is totally more important to me then any condescention or supposed issue of my self importance, I have no problem completely bending to someone else's higher experience,and learning from it. I'm all about asking even the stupid questions.
'Her' intention at posting was upon first getting this big news of all these bugs. And was hoping to gain any insights to help with decision making. Thats what these forums are about . Yes we have spoken to people we trust, and the sicker one is going to be seen by the vet, and hopefully for the critters it will all work out healthy and w/ big fat hungry lizards! G..

[hhmoore]

While it is tempting to throw out another post, just for the sake of word play, I just don't have it in me. Your point was made and understood with your first post, lol. How about we pick a thought and agree to agree. This one: and hopefully for the critters it will all work out healthy and w/ big fat hungry lizards! G..

[Drache613]

Hello,

I have been helping this person also & she has been nothing but honest with me. If you don't have anything nice to say or anything helpful to add then why bother? She wasn't rude to you so there was no need in your comments to her like that at all.
There was really no reason for such a hostile thread, either. It was very unprofessional to completely prejudge someone in that manner. That is a good way to turn new people off, & even though I don't have all that many posts on here myself, I do on other forums & am well versed as to how things go on threads. This was totally unecessary. There are plenty of other more polite ways to get your point across without being so rude!
Why does everyone have to be so argumentative anyway, it is supposed to be a helpful thread, not a degrading one.

Tracie

[hhmoore]

I acknowledged that some time ago, when I made this statement: Apparently this was one of those cases that I could have expressed myself differently I then backed up and referred to a previous comment of mine: My comment in my second post remains unchanged and sincere - I'm glad it worked out for you. (both of you)
Yes, I became unnecessarily coarse, and poorly conveyed my thought - I knew what I meant, and sometimes that gets in the way. I will offer no explanation or excuse for a variety of reasons, but neither will I try to hide it or cover it up. I realized the course I had veered onto, and stopped. I acknowledged that Gigi's point(s) had been made and understood, and chose to focus and agree on this statement of hers "and hopefully for the critters it will all work out healthy and w/ big fat hungry lizards! G.."

I came back to this thread for one reason, and one reason alone...and, in a way, it is tempting to log off and leave it undone now that another party has stepped in to comment. I will, instead, proceed in spite of that (most certainly not because of it ;) ). Renei and Gigi, I came back to apologize to you for my behavior. No doubt, you think I am an ass...and, well, I am sometimes. This was one of those times. I'm sorry. Good luck with the little guys.