Best state for Herp Laws

[snakeventure]

In everyone's opinion, which state in the union is the best state to live in for the most relaxed herp laws, and the least possibility of them becoming strict in the future. I plan on moving from Michigan in 1 to 2 years, and am trying to decide which state to move to. In all honesty, this is probably one of the biggest factors as to where we move.

Thanks for your input!

[snakeventure]

Actually, forgot to mention, we hope to move to the Scranton, PA area. According to my research they have no local ordinances relating to exotics or reptiles, and the laws haven't changed since 1979. I'm assuming thats good....

[hhmoore]

NY sucks - cross this one off your list

[kmurphy]

Maine's not too good now but there is hope for the future. Changes are in the works.

[norsmis]

Illinois isnt a good choice either......

[Mooing Tricycle]

Mass is alright, you just need permits for things like Chondros and such. ( hots too, and i believe big constrictors)

[Ed Clark]

Pennsylvania seems to have no regulation what so ever. :shrug01:

[snakeventure]

Any thoughts on the future of legislation in PA?

[Gary O]

Ohio is nice..........

[ExoticsExpress]

PA/ Pennsylvania seems to be the best --- Venemous, crocodilians, large pythons and boas, just about everything but some/all natives!

Anthony Allis
ExoticsExpress@aol.com

[ExoticsExpress]

Lets hope this doesnt jinx the future of PA and other great herp areas lol.

Anthony Allis
ExoticsExpress@aol.com

[snakeventure]

Thanks for all the info, That's what I figured about PA. I think we're going to stick with our Scranton plan.

[cyberfrog]

PA is the spot bud, not too many states as wide open, maybe Texas. With unrestricted land you can have a lion, a nile croc, and a herd of zebras in your back yard if you wanted. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I don't think PA has anything against it. However, Hedgehogs are verboten, don't ask me why, the only thing I ever read was that they were afraid of competition with the pork industry which is beyond silly.

[monkeywrench133]

Arizona is pretty good. The only regulations in place are on native species, and if you've got a state hunting license, you can keep many of them as well. The one exception to that is Alligators, for some reason they're illegal in AZ.

[fishmich]

i honestly like florida. i dont think its a great idea to have no restrictions in place because that allows for future bans due to irresponsible keepers. when you make rules and regulations like florida does, it shows that the state is willing to work with the hobbyists. it also prevents or at least deters illegal or irresponsible keeping of animals. i live in michigan where only local laws and ordinances restrict ownership. i like the way it is now but who knows how long it will stay this way.

[snakeventure]

Hedgehogs?? I read up on this and it sounds like hedgehog breeders in PA have similar difficulties as we have with the law, being told different things, treated like drug dealers, etc... I guess this is the equivalent of the laws banning, "all constrictor snakes." Sometimes I seriously wonder why we still call this a free country.

[snakeman101172]

Avoid New York like the plague. Pa is as liberal as they get and seem to remain consistent in that.

[snakeventure]

Has anyone had any experience with the PA Game Commission. Their law states that exotic animals cannot be kept without a permit and only for public display. I called, and according to them, they define exotic as anything that does not naturally live in the state. I then asked them what about Hamsters, the lady said hamsters were OK because they are domesticated. When I asked what is the definition of domesticated, she could not give me an answer. She did say anything like a sugar glider, hedgehog, wallaby, would be exotic. If I was found with a wallaby (which I plan on bringing with me), the animal would be confiscated and I would be subject to numerous fines.

Take a look at this story: http://pgchallofshame.com/stories/page2.htm

Well, I guess we may have to look at Ohio now. Is there ANY STATE that has a clue how to properly handle exotic animals without out right banning them???

[RJK890]

Florida is not a good choice if you are looking for relaxed exotic animal laws. The new ban on large constrictors is just the begining for them. They are going to tighten restrictions and add species to the list in the near future. I have talked to a few animal control officers and that is what they say. I am going to be relocating soon too, and I'm thinking about Ohio.

[fishmich]

Florida is not a good choice if you are looking for relaxed exotic animal laws. The new ban on large constrictors is just the begining for them. They are going to tighten restrictions and add species to the list in the near future. I have talked to a few animal control officers and that is what they say. I am going to be relocating soon too, and I'm thinking about Ohio.

florida is not relaxed but they are regulated. in my opinion, there should be rules. floridas permit system shows they are willing to work with hobbyists rather than restrict the animals all together. a state with no regs makes it much easier for an inexperienced person to end up with a hot or a large constrictor they are unable to care for.

[sugarkornbizkits]

I agree that there should be some regulations. I've noticed that on the news lately,they have been giving exotic keepers a bad rap. The most recent one was when one of the newscasters ordered a rattlesnake and were claiming how because of how the people she ordered it from didn't ask any questions, you could find them in your backyard or your kids could order one and they would show up at your door and how this is a "very common practice." :(

[Austin-1]

Hi,
I live in South Carolina, and have never heard of any regulations here, except maybe for alligators. I talked with a vendor at a show here a couple of years ago, and he said that South Carolina has some of the best (i.e. non-restricting) laws in the country. As far as I know, nothing has changed since then.

Also, South Carolina is far more friendly to ectotherms climate-wise. Ohio is pretty cold! I enjoy warmer weather, making cages easier to heat. Also, I can then take my herps outdoors and let them enjoy the sunshine and fresh air, and get some excersise slithering around.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the Best!!
Regards,
Austin

[dturner05]

I'm sure you would not want to move here, but in AR there are no laws that I am aware of. I don't even believe we have any laws against venomous if that tells you anything. I know a guy who collects gaboon vipers...I think he's a moron, but AR is a pretty good place for herps, cops are much more concerned about drunk red necks and exploding meth labs.

[Nirvana]

I've heard some serious horror stories about PA. They seem to be pretty good with regards to herps, but apparently trying to get a straight answer from them regarding which exotic mammal species are legal is a nightmare. I have heard of people having their animals destroyed in the name of some very vague laws ...

On the other hand, I think most native mammals are legal there.

I've heard good things about Ohio in terms of mammals; I think their herp laws are pretty lax as well. Never lived there though so I can't say for sure. I know there is a HUGE exotic auction down there ... Everything from Burms to tigers.

[hunterjackson]

I have never had any probs here in Columbia, SC. I know plenty of people who keep hots, and hots are sold without problems at shows (18+ obviously). As far as large cats, etc, i am not sure.

Our DNR can answer any questions....

[snakeventure]

Thanks for all the information everyone.

[TheVipersHouse]

Pennsylvania seems to have no regulation what so ever. :shrug01:
thats not true Ed

Pa has laws on the books in many areas


heres how pathetic they are

in Allentown , Pa there an actuall LAW on the BOOKS
that states very clearly (and this is no joke)

"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OWN ANY KINDS OF VENOMOUS TURTLES ..."

and your not allowed to own HOTS anymore ,
or any LARGE Constrictors ..
their laws in Allentown are a joke , these laws are why Allentown doesnt hold any more shows like they did in the past .

Pa does have many regulations in many different areas as far as Scranton im not sure what they hold on the books but i know most of my surrounding areas .. and im 25 mins away from Hamburg ..

[Critterfarm]

West Virginia


Summary of Law: The state only regulates native species to the state. A person possessing a native animal in captivity as a "pet" must obtain a permit. However, there are no state laws governing private possession of exotic animals.

Citation: W. VA. CODE § 20-2-51

[Hillside Herps]

No venemous in Md and no native species or morphs of a native specie without $25.00 license. Boas, pythons and most colubrids no license needed. Md Fish and Wildlife cool if your honest and respect them.

[WingedWolf]

Definitely Wyoming. Outside of city limits, you can own almost anything.

There is one single animal that you cannot own in Wyoming. It's actually on the books. You can have a fleet of Gaboon vipers, 5 Nile crocs, 3 King cobras, and a sea snake in a pear tree, if you want.

But you can't have a black mamba. I know you had your heart set on one, too.... <lol>

You can own any native--even restricted ones, so long as you have proper records of purchasing it as a captive bred animal. Of course, as anywhere, endangered species would require permits.

--------------
Oh, and in Omaha, Nebraska:

"Pet animal: Any domestic dogs, domestic cats, mini-pigs, domestic rabbits, domestic ferrets, domestic rodents, birds except those defined as agricultural animals and specifically including any birds possessed under a license issued by the State of Nebraska and/or the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, non-lethal aquarium fish, non-lethal invertebrates, amphibians, turtles, non-venomous lizards that will not grow to more than five feet in length at maturity, nonvenomous snakes that will not grow to more than eight feet in length at maturity, or such other animals as may be specified and for which a permit shall be issued by the authority after inspection and approval; provided, however, that any animal forbidden to be sold, owned, or possessed by federal or state law is not a pet animal."

Pet animals are allowed. Essentially, Omaha has declared most herps legally domesticated. The 8 foot limit on snakes is recent--it used to be 6 feet. This is a victory for local herpers, who can now keep Irian Jaya carpets, and a variety of other species that just went a bit over the mark before. Omaha isn't stupid about it the way some places, are either--the 8 foot limit refers to the adult length of the species, and not the current size of the animal. It's a fairly liveable ordinance in my opinion.

[Spirals]

Oregon has no laws ( that i have found) restricting what herps you can own.

[John E Dove]

Oregon has no laws ( that i have found) restricting what herps you can own.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_600/OAR_635/635_056.html

[WingedWolf]

That's pretty specific, lol. It's also reasonably sane, targeting animals that may naturalize in Oregon if released, or which have caused problems in other areas, and allowing pretty much everything else. And you can have all the numbats you want. O_o

[nocturnal1]

Permit required for hots; native threatened and endangered species cannot be kept or sold (not sure if permit overrides that). Any hunting license allows you to take native alligators...hmm.

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

Don't quote me on this, but last I looked into it, Alabama is fairly relaxed. There are a handful of state-protected native herps, some of the main ones are the black pine snake and the eastern box turtle. Also, you require a permit to own exotic hots, but not for native ones.

Again...I could be wrong as I hadn't looked into it in a while.

[nocturnal1]

I recommended TX a few weeks back but I just got new info. There are cities (1 of them just to the north of me - Denton) that apparently do not allow you to own any kind of boa or python. Not even a ball python! Sounds like this ignorance is also spreading to other parts of the state, unfortunately.

[cliff_f]

Oklahoma...The main laws you have to worry about is city laws. Other than that you can keep just about what ever you want. If they are not native to Oklahoma none of the game wardens seem to know what the restrictions are on exotics (i have asked alot of them)

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

I heard (or read) where a city law prohibited him from keeping certain snakes, but statewide there was no restrictions, etc. He took it to court and they allowed him to keep them stating that the statewide stance on the matter took precedence over the city laws.

For the life of me, I cannot remember where I came across that. But if true, it could mean that the city laws don't mean jack if the state says it's okay.

Any thoughts or additional insight on this?

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

EDIT: "him" being some guy whose name I also cannot recall.

[Delmar1978]

Forget Georgia, Unless you only want to keep dogs & cats.

[rabernet]

Forget Georgia, Unless you only want to keep dogs & cats.


You can own non-venomous snakes that are not indigenous to GA, and you can own venomous snakes that ARE. So, no corn snakes in GA. :(

[ZephyrG]

You can own native herps in any number as long as you can prove they're CB, and you can breed them as well, or if you've taken them in relation to the Michigan collection rules, which are also very lenient. As far as my research has shown, you can own pretty much everything else. (You have to have permits for hots and crocs, but if you're going to get either of these you've probably done the necessary paperwork, training etc.)

[mgoblue346]

I live in PA and I have to say it is the best. I have several large boas, 2 alligators, and a single hot none of which require a permit or anything whatsoever. Scranton isn't a good choice though. Not a nice area. Move someone into the suburbs on Philadelphia. Definitely some of the nicer areas of the state. Just in case you haven't moved yet.

[bradleymoore]

oklahoma isn't bad... well the laws aren't anyways.

[cliff_f]

oklahoma isn't bad... well the laws aren't anyways.

The only state laws on reptiles I can think of consist of a few native endangered species that you can not keep and venomous and all that takes is a non commercial breeders license for native and exotic venomous. Now some city laws are a little stricter but that just depends on the city you live in.

[leviV]

Does anyone know of any laws prohibiting constrictors such as red tail boas or green tree pythons? I've searched online and found nothing. Just yesterday a mans house was raided here in Washington state because of suspicions of venomous reptiles. When they searched his house they found a total of 40 snakes and 34 of which were venomous, he did have a reticulated python and a four foot alligator. He didn't have a license for the venomous, so I think that's why they took the non venomous as well. If anyone knows of any laws in Washington State it would be much appreciated to hear your comment, or even a suggestion where to look. I'm going to try fish and wild life.
Thanks,
Levi V.

[TailsWithScales]

Levi,
Check out Dept of Fish and Game or Fish and Wildlife.
I know that certain species are banned completely for owning like crocodiles /alligators and several species of monitor lizard. ALL venomous species native and non require a permit. This was the law at the beginning of 2008 but it may have changed.
Depending on what you own it's not just state laws you have to worry about.

Don't choose CA. Horrible laws here and some city laws are even worse then state.

Montana however doesn't have any regulations that I know of.

[morphious]

i would say Pennsylvania im making the move been looking just have not found the right home yet.

[mechnut450]

remove dealaware from the list, they just changed the regs and unless you want to pay for each snakes and not breed( every 3 years and this means renew too) you can't breed I am looingnitro a sale permit but it limits to smaller snakes for breeding no redtails or larger types ( you need a acreditted zoo permit for that and i bet it cost big bucks) if i knew i could do it i move to either PA ( boon docks) or to the carolinas right now since out side 1 corn adn a balck rat my snakes are all non native to united states . and i looknigo t rehome some later on once it warms up i think.

[cbcreations]

As far as the python issue. The new laws in washington, require any snake cappable of reaching 6' or more, be permited with the county. Unfortunatly that does include ball pythons and a lot of colubrids, even though i have never seen a 6' ball, but that is the new law. They are getting very strict, and starting to crack down.

[cbcreations]

As far as venomous goes, they are now consider prohibited, you can no longer own or possess them. You can not get a permit to keep them, they are now off limits, unless you are considered exempt, AZA, refuge, rehabilitation center, etc.

[JakesHerps]

Our laws here in Indiana are excellent...

Venomous reptiles require a permit for each individual. When obtaining the permit a certified person will come and look at the living arrangements.

No restrictions on non-native herps. (One exception: crocodilians over 6 ft. in length require a permit.)

Native herps may be collected (there are bag limits) but not bought or sold (or traded), with the exception of color morphs. That excludes threatened or endangered herps. In which case, a permit can be obtained.

After hearing about other state's I think we have it best. The state is willing to work with us while making it very unlikely that irresponsible people will obtain dangerous animals.

And I doubt these regulations are likely to change...

[Abish]

Don't choose CA. Horrible laws here and some city laws are even worse then state.

:yesnod:

The California county/city laws are what really foul you up.

[bear]

MICHIGAN is awesome. as far as i know there are no state laws just city ordinances "no constrictors over x feet" that are not enforced at all. i could sell anything in my old store, we had gators, huge snakes, any and all reptiles, except hots and crocs, that was about it.. we did more screening ourselves on customers then animal control did on us.. they just came in every now and then and looked at our stuff. I had a police officer in my house and he noticed my snakes and went into COOL WHATS THAT mode pretty quick, no concern at all for legality. Michigan is a very cool place for reptiles, my neighbors even let there kids come over like they are going to a zoo or something..

mammals are a whole different story though, Animal control is on top of stuff with mammals.

[psilocybe]

I posted this in the shipping forum, on a thread specifically about New Mexico, but figured it would fit here as well...prepare to be baffled :shrug01: :ack2:

M's animal laws SUCK, plain and simple. In some ways, they are lenient to keepers (there are no state laws regarding owning native or exotic venomous, with a major caveat, read on), but in other ways, they are so ass backwards it's hardly believable.

Tim is right in that, by the letter of the law, EVERY animal imported into New Mexico, whether it is a native species or not, MUST have a $25 permit accompanying it (the permit has to be applied for by the purchaser prior to importation). Theoretically, this asinine law applies even to crickets purchased over the internet. Now...the question is, just how is this law enforced? Honestly, I don't know. But I'll tell you what I do know.

Technically, almost any animal purchased WITHIN the state of NM is legal (with the exception of crocodilians, lions, tigers, bears, etc., and state protected species, but all non-protected snake species and most other reptiles are completely legal, hot or not). The catch is, you must be able to provide proof (in the form of a sales receipt, breeder documentation, etc.) that the animal ORIGINATED in NM.

Here's the problem with enforcement of the law: Pet stores that sell animals (including mammals, etc.) NEVER mention this to customers. Do you think your average Joe Schmoe who walks into a Petco and buys a ball python for $50 is going to keep that receipt forever, incase NM G&F knocks on his door one day and wants to see documentation? Of course not...the receipt goes in the trash on his way out the door, or at best, after the live animal guarantee runs out.

I think it's fairly safe to say that the vast majority of non-domestic animals kept in the state of NM are being kept illegally, at least by the letter of that stupid law. I can't think of anyone here, whether they keep reptiles or chinchillas, that can provide definitive proof that their animal(s) originated in New Mexico, and that goes for all the pet store purchases that occur daily in this state.

NM F&W realize this, but they fail to do anything to amend the law (such as suggest an amendment in the next legislative session). There are reportedly some diligent herpers here (Bob Ashley) who have been working for quite some time on changing some of these laws in our favor, but the last time I checked (less than a week ago), nothing had changed.

Where NM DOES apparently enforce this (or at least makes a position about it) is with venomous reptiles. Unfortunately, even there, they enforce the law in a manner that is NOT how the law is written.

As written, the law states that ALL venomous snakes (Helodermids are not allowed in NM) IMPORTED into the state of New Mexico must be vet-certified venomoids. The fact that my state even promotes such a practice is embarrassing to me, my personal stance is that I'd rather NOT own venomous than own venomoids. But I digress. The ridiculousness of this law is readily apparent, in several ways. For one, I can order a pair of venomoid black mambas off the internet, legally import them (with a permit of course), and then go right around and breed fully intact, venomous baby black mambas, which would be perfectly legal as they are because they ORIGINATED in the state of NM. Make sense to you?

In addition...I can go and drive 15 minutes from my apartment and capture and legally keep an atrox, viridis, or other native rattlesnake species, and legally keep them INTACT, fully venomous, but if I want an atrox, viridis, or molossus from TEXAS, it has to be a vet-certified venomoid. The ridiculousness of this law is astounding, because it doesn't make any sense, PERIOD.

However, the way the law is enforced unfairly targets venomous keepers, because it goes beyond the scope of the way the law is written. I have it on good word (though I have not experienced this personally), that Game and Fish considers ANY non-native venomous reptile to be illegal, regardless of origin (meaning even if it were bred in the state). Proving origin to them is virtually impossible, because unless G & F are actually sitting there watching black mamba babies hatch from the egg (I suppose one could videotape it, but then they'd just argue it could have been taped anywhere), one can't conclusively PROVE where an animal was born. It's essentially a breeders word against the state. They have effectively banned exotic venomous in this state WITHOUT a law to back it up. Idiocy, I tell you.

[Jager the Uro]

Pa is the best. i live in nj and cant even buy a freaking turtle.you can at least do that in nY. i drive 45min and i can buy a poisonous snake. :)

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

We are in PA as well and I would have to say it's the best as well. You don't need a permit for anything.. for now, let's not jynx ourselves!

[HyderHouseHerps]

MS isn't bad either but if you move this far you might as well move on into florida!

[kevin c.]

Kentucky is not good also. you can't have gators,crocs,primates etc.(unless you purchased them before 7-1-2005. the reason given was for "protection of the public and the owner from dangerous wildlife, to protect the publics safety" now, it has been proven as a scientific FACT that, driving while talking on your'e cell phone is as dangerous as drunk driving, why is it not outlawed as protecting the publics safety since doing this endangers the lives of all citizens who drive! simply put,everyone does it including law enforcement! how hypocritical! so i would go to W.V. PA or S.C.

[snowgyre]

Georgia is okay, you just can't own any native herps (including the ubiquitous corn snake). You also aren't allowed to own venomous reptiles without a permit, but not many people know about this law because it's not in the pet ownership law, but rather in an injurious and harmful animals clause.

Considering Georgia has the greatest diversity of salamanders in the entire world, and has many endemic and rare herp species, I can understand why they're so protective.

USARK just helped fight a law to ban big snakes as well, so it's still legal to own the big constrictors here. Not sure how long that's going to last though, but Georgia is considerably less liberal (and more suspicious of government in general) than Florida.

[Ectothermicfauna]

Alaska-

No legal restrictions of any kind for anything involving any nonvenomous reptile in the entire class reptilia. Hots require a permit that is basically just a responsibility waiver. Its so cold outside in the winter, they pose no threat to native wildlife so no laws. alaskans are so anal on personal freedom that the ADFG tried to ban feral cats here and grassroots efforts repealed it.

[Buckeyebloods]

Ohio is nice..........

SHHH... Dont draw attention Gary :NoNo:

[Ramiro]

Mass is alright, you just need permits for things like Chondros and such. ( hots too, and i believe big constrictors)

I disagree, Mass sucks. You are only allowed to keep reptiles that are on an approved list and anything that is not included is not allowed. Permits are only granted to universities or other institutions that are doing research, not to private individuals.

Here are some general guidelines from Mass Wildlife on the state laws on keeping reptiles. Notice how many common species kept as pets are not allowed, i.e chameleons, varanids, chrondos, and many more.

# Reptiles:

Turtles:
Lawful (no MassWildlife permit required): All turtles, except rare species and those below.

Unlawful: the Argentine (Chaco) Tortoise, Gopher Tortoises and related species, and the Pancake Tortoise.

Snakes:
Regulations regarding the possession of snakes are quite detailed and should be consulted (321 CMR 9.01) for specifics. Some generalities are listed as follows.

Lawful (no MassWildlife permit required):
All species of boas and pythons, regardless of size, except rare species, and those listed as Unlawful
Shield-tailed Snakes and Sunbeam Snakes;
Worm Snakes (except rare species), Thread Snakes, and related species;
Several so-called "harmless" snakes, including Brown and Redbellied Snakes, Garter and Ribbon Snakes, Glossy Snakes, Green Snakes, House Snakes, Kingsnakes and Milksnakes, Rat Snakes (except rare species), Water Snakes, the Western Hognosed Snake and certain others.

Unlawful: Emerald Tree Boa, Green Tree Python, African Rock Python, Reticulated Python, and all Anacondas; Black Rat Snake; other rare species, any other snake not specified as lawful. Possession of ALL venomous ("poisonous") snakes is prohibited.

Crocodilians:
Lawful: None.

Unlawful (MassWildlife permit required): all crocodilians, including alligators, crocodiles, caimans, and gavials.

Lizards.
Regulations regarding the possession of lizards are quite detailed and should be consulted (321 CMR 9.01) for specifics. Some generalities are listed as follows.

Lawful (no MassWildlife permit required):
All skinks (including the Solomon Islands Prehensile-Tailed Tree Skink) rare species, and skinks listed below as unlawful.
False Club-tailed Lizards, Girdle-tailed Lizards, Plated Lizards, and Rock Lizards;
Most Teiid Lizards;
Some Lacertid Lizards and Lateral-fold Lizards;
All Gekkos except rare species and the Big Bend Gekko;
Several iguanids, including Basilisks, Collared and Leopard Lizards, Common (Green) Iguana, False Iguana, New World Chameleons, Spiny Lizards, and Tree and Bush Lizards;
Some Agamid Lizards, such as the Water Dragon, and most Night Lizards.
Unlawful:
Rare species, Florida Sand Skinks, Solomon Islands Ground Skink, Chameleons, Monitor Lizards, Gila Monster and Beaded Lizard, and any other lizards not specifically listed.

[foz223]

i live in michigan and they are very reptile friendly here. no permits for venomous, crocodillian and other snakes. i love it here.