IBD and still selling snakes! How do you feel?

[Giantkeeper Reptiles]

If there was a case of a Vet/lab proven IBD infection in an animal that you have sold, do you still sell snakes and accuse everyone else of being at fault? I will not be an accuser because other than being cautious I am not involved! I am sure most of you have heard by now the names dropped in this situation. I ask that each and every one of my fellow herpers to be careful about purchasing animals that may have come through these locations until this gets straightened out. This one case could prove devistating to collections all over the states. Thats why I care and you should too! Tell us how you feel............ <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Chris McAra

Giantkeeper Reptiles

[HerpVenue]

If I sold the snake.....and I knew where it came from.

1. spam_ I would disclose the information.
2. spam_ I would offer my sincere apologies and a refund / replacement to the person I sold it to.
3. spam_ I would make sure the person I sold to knows that I WILL NOT be responsible for the whole collection. spam_Just the animals I sold. spam_(practice good quarantine)

4. spam_I will not sell a single animal. &nbsp;At least not until I am able to do the cheapest test I could think of spam_(The Ball Python Test)

The Ball Python Test
Separate all the animals and put each and every single one in their own enclosures. spam_ Put a healthy ball python with each animal. spam_ If after sixty days the ball python is still healthy.....then the animal with it is healthy.


I know some of you may think that is mean. spam_ But it is the best that I could think of without killing the whole entire collection.

Good luck to all parties involved.

And to the person who bought it...........Thanks for letting us know. spam_I do not know if I said it...But please know that I am saying it now. spam_I appreciate your post. spam_ THANKS &nbsp;FOR LOOKING OUT FOR US <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Tom Chambers]

I'm with Ritchie on that one. But Chris, I gotta tell you man, the thing that bugs me the most is the fact that this seller is actually arrogant about it and acts like it is no big deal because he acquired them from someone else and they were not in his posession very long. If it were me I would be one HUMBLE MF'r right about now!

That's OK - we all learn where or where NOT to shop as a result.

Peace - TC
TC Reptile

[Tom Chambers]

Whoops....thought this new fancy board showed your registration name........so before I get dinged by the Webslave.....the full name is Tom Chambers! (TC Reptile)

[AZTEC FRED]

Tom,

You make an excellent point. HUMILITY is something that is needed right now as well as honest disclosure and a halt on sales. I DONT see the humility, just an absence of self promotion and picutres that are that persons trademark. &nbsp;As for passing the buck, hey I dont know al the particulars, but DO know the individual in Calif.(Dale) that sells boas, he has been keeping, breeding and selling high quality boas for 10 years, and 9 years ago I bought what were probably the best boas I have ever seen, forum boas included, from him. &nbsp; This doesnt make me his personal friend, just a guy that has seen his setup and the snakes he sells. Havent bought any from him in a long time(9yrs( but that is because I was buying other stuf(Indigos!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
I am amused that Chris should take so much heat, just like KEMPER did, and wonder how many other people with similar tales of &nbsp;pain will keep their MOUTHS shut while this guy goes on selling boas like nothing has happend. And I am NOT talking about Dale, let me make that clear.

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fred

[David Reid]

ANYONE, I mean ANYONE knowingly selling IBD animals should be kicked permenantly out of the reptile fraternaty. spam_ IBD can wipe out an entire collection! spam_ It is much different to sell an animal that you INFORM the buyer has mites, or a scar or something minor. spam_ BUT, to sell an IBD animal is TOTALLY unethical and wrong, and will lead to me never!!!! spam_I mean never buying anything from you!! spam_ Even with the best hygene in your collection, a wrong water dish or something freakish like that can wipe out an entire collection. spam_ IBD is serious, and my feeling that any animal found with it should be put down. spam_ I am no vet, but that is my feeling.

[Giantkeeper Reptiles]

David I agree with you 100%! I wish the people who are responsible felt the same way. From the classifieds I would have to say it is business as usual. Maybe the frat should get together and start kicking!

Chris McAra
Giantkeeper Reptiles <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

[A.Rentfro]

I do not know Bill Cagle, I tried to do business with him once about a year ago and we did not hit it off. Personally, I have never understood the hype that surrounds his business. People in the forums brag on getting an animal of his as if it is something special and unique, a brand-name almost. My understanding is that he is a reseller and that more than a few people who have a good relationship with him have been pleased with what they got. But as this current affair illustrates he (and all resellers) has limited control over the qualiity of his stock. Even assuming his set-up is perfect, he only ships, good or bad, what someone else has already passed on. This grading by health, size and appearance and deciding who-gets-what begins when the animal pops out of the egg or mother or even when it is picked up by a collector a long way and many hands away from most end-customers. "My animals are hand-picked!", of course they are but hand-picked for what and with whom in mind? So was the animal that died of IBD.

Resellers have a place in the market and provide an important service but in my mind there is no cause to place them in the same category as people who spend years to produce exceptional-quality animals. Of course, breeders, dealers or resellers, any of them can please you by providing what you want and any could really screw you over if they are dishonest.

It would have been best if he could have settled his problems with the guy who had the sick animals outside the public forums. The way this dispuute has grown speaks as much about stubbornness as it does about the issues of IBD and a seller's responsibility when an animal turns out to be very sick, contagious or both. What should he do? If he or anyone has sold an animal he knows to have been exposed to IBD or another devastating contagion they should own up to it and follow through with their customers to make it right.

Should he or anybody with IBD in their animals freeze or burn all their animals? That depends... is this (following) a description of your collection?...................

Animals are caged in groups and the enclosures are rarely cleaned thoroughly. You use the same cages (many of which are low-tech and cannot be disinfected even if you try) for the next animal, or ten animals that come your way. Mites are a recurring problem. Food items not consumed by one animal are given to another. Shift-cages are rarely disinfected. Bags and boxes are reused without being cleaned and disinfected. Your buddies and customers bring stuff into your animal rooms and you pass them around and admire them, sometimes you lend out or borrow each other's animals for breeding or whatever. You buy and sell and trade animals at a whim with anybody or even if you just need a few bucks to party this weekend..............

If the above describes you and your set-up then yes, you should euthanize all your animals. Probably you should not be allowed to keep animals except as a pet and be ostracized from the entire herping community too.

As for everybody else who is now holding one or several animals that came from Bill they have a tough decision to make. They can either trust that he uses the proper care in handling and housing his stock and sleep well or they can take the needed steps to protect their stock and that of their friends and customers. Both sides need to calm down. I feel many are using this to attack Bill for reasons other than this current incident. It also seems true that many are supporting him and his response to this situation for personal reasons of their own, not taking into account the seriousness of the problem.

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

A. Rentfro
Gus@RioBravoReptiles.com

[turtleman1]

i dont buy from breeders except for 1
i sell what he & i produce, and wc, all new snakes go to my rat building for 2 sheds, they are kept away frm my collection, 10 miles from farm to my house, an i safe, do have 4 trios from breederscoming in for my collection, any way, im in the Panama city area if any one needs to isolate some snakes, we have room & cages, just give my helper 10.00 or so to pay for te feed and we can hlod them for 60 to 90 days
cant be responaible for them but will do our bestto help you out,we have now about25 colubrid size cages empty
Contact me spam_
Thanks Gene

[Gary Walsch]

I personally think that Bill started out doing the right thing by the customer. &nbsp;I dinthink he had any inclination that the animals were infected with IBD or he would not endanger his own breeding stock by keeping them around for even a single day. &nbsp;I also agree with the above posts that after finding this out he at the very least should hold off selling any more animals until he is sure that no other animals could be affected. The fact that he is still readily posting without disclosing any possibility of a problem in my opinion is the same as selling sick animals as healthy ones and then saying "BUYER BEWARE" . &nbsp;If in fact more animals are infected then by shipping he could be spreading it everywhere and doing everyone involved in the herp community an incredible disservice. I dont know Bill personally or have never bought from him but knowing what is currently going on and what could be at stake I wouldnt take one of his animals for FREE !!! and I certainly wouldnt buy anything from him until this was cleared up. &nbsp;The funny thing is that he doesnt seem worried about it from what I have read. At the very least he should be OUTED for what is going on. &nbsp;This could be finnancially devastating for Bill even to just test all his animals, but he has to realize the damage he could be doing to the entire herp community, and things like this give people and organizations like the Humane Society even more fuel for their fire when they zero in on irresponsible owners and breeders. &nbsp;In my opinion the one thing missing in the herp community today is dignity, and this is achieved by following good practices such as honesty,integrity and responsibility. &nbsp;Cases like this make us all look bad. &nbsp;Not only that but anyone who has purchased one of his animals is also in danger of spreading the disease, whether knowingly or unknowingly and we are at the mercies of their honesty as well, and we have to hope that they are not dishonest enough to try and pass these animals off as not coming from BIll. &nbsp;I think I have said more than enough to give you something to think about.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles

[franklinedwards60]

I know what IBD is but I'm not sure how easily passed it is. The only reason I was wanting to know is think about this sernerio.

He's shipping 3 boxes of animals caring IBD. 20 other people also are shiping a couple packages each with the same shipping service. May not even be in same town. The shipping company's plane stops in another town to pick up more packages. So say now you have at least 23+ animals that may have been exposed. Now you also have a plane with a shipping company. That has been exposed. You know that they don't steralize planes because they don't ship live animals. so now all thes people get thier animals. Say 5 people are Pet store owners. Thier animals get bought and are now in a rescue for some reason. I could go on and on.

Any how can someone plese let me know how easilly this can spred. Thank you.

[A.Rentfro]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gary Walsch @ Feb. 23 2002,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I personally think that Bill started out doing the right thing by the customer. spam_I dinthink he had any inclination that the animals were infected with IBD or he would not endanger his own breeding stock by keeping them around for even a single day. spam_I also agree with the above posts that after finding this out he at the very least should hold off selling any more animals until he is sure that no other animals could be affected. The fact that he is still readily posting without disclosing any possibility of a problem in my opinion is the same as selling sick animals as healthy ones and then saying "BUYER BEWARE" . spam_If in fact more animals are infected then by shipping he could be spreading it everywhere and doing everyone involved in the herp community an incredible disservice. I dont know Bill personally or have never bought from him but knowing what is currently going on and what could be at stake I wouldnt take one of his animals for FREE !!! and I certainly wouldnt buy anything from him until this was cleared up. spam_The funny thing is that he doesnt seem worried about it from what I have read. At the very least he should be OUTED for what is going on. spam_This could be finnancially devastating for Bill even to just test all his animals, but he has to realize the damage he could be doing to the entire herp community, and things like this give people and organizations like the Humane Society even more fuel for their fire when they zero in on irresponsible owners and breeders. spam_In my opinion the one thing missing in the herp community today is dignity, and this is achieved by following good practices such as honesty,integrity and responsibility. spam_Cases like this make us all look bad. spam_Not only that but anyone who has purchased one of his animals is also in danger of spreading the disease, whether knowingly or unknowingly and we are at the mercies of their honesty as well, and we have to hope that they are not dishonest enough to try and pass these animals off as not coming from BIll. spam_I think I have said more than enough to give you something to think about.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Gary wrote:
"In my opinion the one thing missing in the herp community today is dignity, and this is achieved by following good practices such as honesty,integrity and responsibility."

I can only think of one thing to add to that. good job, well said.

A. Rentfro

[bssnakes]

A. Rentfro, Gary Walsch,
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;On a score of 1 to 10 you both just got a perfect 10 for this thread!!!!! &nbsp;With the disease that is involved here, I can't believe that Kingsnake.com still allows him to sell there!!!! &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Tom

[Giantkeeper Reptiles]

I agree! Awesome post and very well said. This is the type of feed back I am looking for.

I personally do not like Bill for my own reasons (probably different than what people think) but this is not why I started the thread. My girlfriend and I have worked very hard to establish our collection as have most of you out there, an infection would prove devastating. I want everyone to be aware at how serious this can be.

Chris McAra
Giantkeeper Reptiles &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[Joe Romley]

I have never bought an animal from Mr. Cagle, but all I know about him is that everyone I personally know that has bought from him was very unsatisfied. Some of these people are pretty big names in reptiles and others are young guys just trying to get a break. As soon as there is a rude or cautionary word said about him on the forum, all these clones step in to say thanks to him for such great animals and post pictures of these nice boas. Are they friends of his? Like I said, everyone that I personally know that has bought a snake from Cagle was very unsatisfied. I got into a big argument with a friend of mine the other day over me not loaning him a snake he needed for a breeding project because it was breeding my female. We haven't spoken since and probably wont for some time. We’re both grown men in our 30’s and we’re acting like 12 year olds over whose bike is cooler. This is what people like Cagle are doing to us. Own up to it if you did sell something sick and make the customer happy. I sold a woma to a guy that had some vet bills afterwards. I’m trying to find him another snake to give to him for free to make up for it. I offered to take it back when he said it was ill, but he said no. I’m not saying I’m better than anyone, but at least I’m trying to do the right thing. We need to start using some kind of escrow broker or something. The $150 snake that we think is a great deal might cost several hundred dollars in vet bills or worse, kill off some or all of our collection. I'm so sick of this type of crap that I'm closing my public doors and going under ground. I’ve been keeping reptiles since I was five, breeding for the last 6 years and working on a web site that I’m a little proud of for the last 4 years. I’m ready to pull the plug and just keep my favorites as pets. I just can’t figure out which ones are my favorites. Sorry this may have went way off topic, thanks for planting such a bad mental seed Mr. Broker! When was the last time you heard me say anything bad about someone in here? You know I’m tired of this! It’s not like it happened once or twice. You sold allot of people snakes that were not up to par. Simple as that. I’m not afraid of you slandering my name around town; because I’m proud of my name so don’t send me threatening emails now. If you have the stuff people want at the price they want you can have the best name in town and make a ton of cash. Why shoot yourself in the foot and someone else in the back pocket? I’m going back to bed.

[bssnakes]

Everyone that has posted hereneeds to e mail Bill Cagle???
And see what he has to say on the subject? &nbsp;And then post it here!!!
&nbsp; &nbsp;Tom

[Neil Gubitz]

Well....I wasn't sure if Bill had seen this thread yet, so I copied it and sent it to him in it's entirety! Here is HIS reply....you can make whatever decisions you want for yourself.....


E-mail message &nbsp;

From: Bcaglereps@aol.com Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 8:17pm To: neilssnakepit@webtv.net Subject: Re: heads up!!

HEY NEIL, YOU WENT TO THE TROUBLE TO EMAIL ME SOME IGNORANT BOI BULLSH!T. I'M A VERY BUSY MAN AND I TAKE MY BUSINESS AND MY REPTILES VERY SERIOUSLY. I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY GAMES WITH A BUNCH OF WANNABEES ON THE FORUM OR BOI. I IN NO WAY WAS INCLUDING YOU IN ANYTHING. YOU EMAILED ME AND I SIMPLY ANSWERED YOU. MOST OF THE GUYS THAT ARE POSTING ON THERE TRYING TO MAKE ME LOOK BAD, ARE ACTUALLY RUINING THEMSELVES IN THE REAL REPTILE WORLD. SEVERAL OF MY FRIENDS HAVE ALREADY EMAILED ME SAYING THEY WILL NEVER SELL TO THEM BECAUSE OF THEIR ACTIONS ON THE BOI AND THE FORUM. I SELL MORE BOAS THAN ALL THE GUYS ON KINGSNAKE PUT TOGETHER. THIS IS WHY SOME PEOPLE DESIRE TO TRY AND BASH ME. WHEN YOU ARE ON TOP OF YOUR GAME, PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT, AND THEY ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO BRING YOU DOWN. I SELL LOTS OF BOAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO, EACH AND EVERY WEEK. THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, AND THIS IS THE WAY IT WILL STAY. I SOLD MORE BOAS LAST WEEK, THAN I HAVE SOLD IN THE PAST 2 MONTHS, SO PLEASE LET THEM CONTINUE TO DO WHATEVER THEY ARE DOING, BECAUSE IT'S DEFINATELY WORKING IN MY FAVOR. I GUESS IT'S LIKE THEY SAY...."BAD PRESS IS BETTER THAN NO PRESS." I HAVE SOLD HUNDREDS OF BOAS WITH ONLY 3 COMPLAINTS, PERIOD. THAT'S ONE HECK OF A STATEMENT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IN THE REPTILE BUSINESS. I HAVE BUILT A STRONG AND CREDIBLE REPTUTATION AND IT WASN'T DONE BY RIPPING PEOPLE OFF OR SELLING SICK ANIMALS. I SELL ONLY TOP QUALITY BOAS AND HAVE THE BEST SELECTION IN THE COUNTRY. IF THIS BOTHERS PEOPLE, THEN THEY SHOULD LOOK ELSEWHERE AND BUY ELSEWHERE. WE ARE NOT GOING TO MISS THEIR BUSINESS HERE. PLEASE STAY IN TOUCH.
YOUR FRIEND AND FELLOW HERPER, BILL
PS. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST THIS ON THE BOI, THE FORUM, OR WHEREVER YOU WOULD LIKE. THE ARROGANT ####### HAS SPOKEN AGAIN.

[bssnakes]

Neil,
&nbsp; A portion of that e mail from Bill Cagle that you got was almost the exact same response that I got from him yesterday also.

Bil Cagle Quote:
&nbsp; &nbsp;THE ARROGANT ####### HAS SPOKEN AGAIN.

Is it just me?? Or does Bill Cagle sound mad about something?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Tom

[Joe Romley]

Just wanted to mention that there are more than 3 complaints. I know of 5 in Southern California.

[Tom Chambers]

I just can't believe that this guy can be such an arrogant jerk about the most serious disease known to the hobby that he is so "at the top" of. Now, I may be a small fish in a big pond but one thing that NOBODY can take from me is my honesty and integrity....because those two things are more important to me than selling reptiles.....I guess you gotta do wht YOU feel is most important....I guess this means that Bill will continue to sell Boas.

And let's face it.....even if you support Bill and the way this is being handled....ask yourself this question...."Would I buy a Boa from ANYONE that I KNEW had an IBD infected snake pass through their facility before I could be SURE that EVERY effort was made to test the other animals in the facility at the same time and for several months afterward?" There is only one honest answer to that question and we all know what it is.

And the ADMITTED arrogance with which it is being handled should be an indication of the concern this person has for the herping community that he apparently owns and operates for our great benefit.

Joe.....I'm pretty sick of it too.......maybe you should just breed your stuff...I'll breed mine....and we'll trade. Does anybody else do this just because they love herps anymore? I do.

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile

[jbuncc]

this is what scares me most, situations like this:
http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/boa/messages/106728.html

...and we have the tampa show coming up where people will be traveling from booth to booth handling snakes without proper sanitation proceedures in between.
i believe the word "epidemic" would be appropriate here when tossing out words that describe what could happen if the odds were stacked against us (the herping community).
i was planning on purchasing some nice snakes down there, but i just don't know if i can assure myself that the possibility of large scale contamination doesn't exist.

what do you guys think? &nbsp;am i taking this too far and being overly cautious, or do you think i have a right to be worried?

thanks,
jonathan brady

[bssnakes]

At least now we know who CFRB aka CHUCK is from the other thread?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[CFRB]

I am posting the report of Matts Boa that was purchased from ( DALE PECOLA ) of San Diego Vivarium. I personally delivered the snake to Bruce Bogoslavsky, the company's personal spam_Vet for necropsy. With IBD having a gestation period of 28 days, you can see that the snake had been exposed at a minimum of 18 days before Matt received the snake. I am not here to bash but just to clarify the fact that the source was not Matt nor Bill . This could happen to anyone who buys and sells Boas. But the disturbing thing is the denial and shifting of blame instead of the concern of the species, spam_customers, spam_and collections that may have received exposed animals. If you are not concerned with the animals or the hobby why be involved, there are plenty of ways to make a dollar.
Charles Barker
http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/2052VETREPORT-med.jpg

[BRAZ]

I FEEL BAD THAT IBD COULD HAVE POSSIBLY COME FROM
SDV. I CANT CONFIRM IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT ONLY EXPRESS MY REGRETS TO ALL CONSIDERED. THE ONLY PROBLEM I AM DEALING WITH AT THE PRESENT, IS THAT BILL CAGLE NEVER NOTIFIED ME UPON THE RESULTS OF THE TEST FROM CHRIS. I FOUND OUT ON A POST, THEN BY CHRIS.
AND IT WASNT A HEY CHRIS CAN YOU PLEASE TELL DALE FOR ME THAT THAT SNAKE HE SOLD ME HAD IBD. YOU KNOW; THE ONE I SOLD TO YOU.PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THIS.THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED BILL CAGLE, I AM WAITING TO HEAR.ALL I HAVE HEARD IS, DAMN I NEW YOU WERE A LIAR
WHEN YOU TOLD ME ABOUT THAT PERUVIAN.

[BRAZ]

AND CHARLES, EXCUSE ME, DOES IT REALLY SOUND LIKE I AM TAKING NO RESPONSIBILIY HERE. I KNOW YOUR TIES WITH BILLY CAGLE. IAM OLD SCHOOL ALSO &nbsp;CHUCKY. CAGLE STARTED THE FINGER POINTING WEEKS AGO. I JUST SAT BACK AND WATCHED. NO NEED TO WATCH ANYMORE, TIME TO HUMBLE THYSELF. CHUCKY, I APOLOGIZE TO THE HERP COMMUNITY AND ALL PARTIES CONSIDERED FOR THIS
PROBLEM. IF THE VIRUS CAME FROM ME. I WILL SACK UP
AND INFORM. I WILL NOT SELL ANIMALS, BECAUSE THERE
ARE NONE TO SELL THAT WERE AROUND THE SNAKES IN QUESTION.BUT WITH ALL THE FACTS THERE ARE SOME
CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS CAGLE SHOULD ANSWER.

[BRAZ]

THREE UNHAPPY CUSTOMERS IN ALL YOUR HERP DEALINGS.

ARE YOU ######################### KIDDING ME

IM DONE HERE. CATCH UP WITH ME AT A SHOW, ILL BE GLAD TO STAND FACE TO FACE AND DISCUSS ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE. &nbsp; THIS IS A SHAM! &nbsp;

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;D.PICOLLA

[BILL CAGLE]

SHAM, HUH? spam_IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL THIS? I DO NOT ACCEPT YOUR APOLOGY, AS I KNOW IT IS NOT SINCERE. YOU ASKED TO HEAR FROM ME SOME MORE, SO HERE YOU GO.....

TODAY MY LAWYER SPOKE WITH MR. CHRISTOPHER ROWAN, OWNER OF PET CRAZY, A PET STORE IN SAN DIEGO, CA. THIS WAS A FRIEND OF DALES BEFORE HE ALSO GOT SCAMMED BY MR. PICOLLA AS WELL. MY LAWYER AND MYSELF HAVE BOTH SPOKEN TO MR. ROWAN, AND HE HAS GIVEN US QUITE A BIT MORE EVIDENCE. DALE SOLD ONE OF HIS BOAS THROUGH CHRIS' PET STORE, USING CHRIS' CREDIT CARD MACHINE, TO RECEIVE PAYMENT. DALE SOLD A BOA TO LINDA CAMERON FOR $1200 AND IT DIED TWO DAYS LATER. SHE HAS NOW REFUSED PAYMENT ON THE CREDIT CARD, AND CHRISTOPHER ROWAN IS NOW STUCK WITH THE BILL. DALE ALSO OWES MR. ROWAN $1000 AND HAS FAILED TO PAY THIS AS WELL. YOU ASKED FOR ME TO SPEAK DALE AND NOW I HAVE.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS, HERE IS MR. ROWAN'S PHONE NUMBER. YOU GUYS CAN CALL AND TALK WITH HIM YOURSELVES: (858)503-0037
I KNOW DALE, HE'S PROBABLY JUST ANOTHER "BAD GUY", RIGHT?!? IF YOU NEED ME TO SAY ANYMORE, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK. I'VE GOT PLENTY MORE EVIDENCE WHERE THIS CAME FROM. WE CAN TALK ABOUT PET KINGDOM, ANOTHER PET STORE IN SAN DIEGO, IF YOU WANT ME TO GO ANY FURTHER. CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR BACK FROM YOU, DALE.

[BRAZ]

I SOLD THREE BOAS TO BILL CAMERON, HE RECEIVED THEM IN
GOOD HEALTH UNTIL THREE WEEKS LATER HE CALLED AND SAID ONE OF THE ANIMALS WASNTDOING THAT WELL. HE SAID HE WOULD GET BACK TO ME,A WEEK AFTER THAT HE
CALLED AND SAID THE SNAKE DIED, AND THEN ANOTHER SNAKE DIED. AFTER ANOTHER WEEK HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO PUT THE OTHER ONE DOWN. MR CAMERON NEVER SENT ME A PHOTO OR VET REPORT, SO THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO GO ON. THE ROWAN INCIDENT I WILL POST IN ANOTHER POST

[BRAZ]

CONTRARY TO WHAT MR. ROWAN IS SAYING, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS MR. ROWAN TOOK ME FOR A SUM OF MONEY I WOULD RATHER NOT DISCLOSE. IN THE EVENT OF A LEGAL
PROCEEDING THAT INFORMATION WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE COURT.

[BRAZ]

ROUGHLY THREE MONTHS AGO PET KINGDOM A PET STORE IN SAN DIEGO, SOLD A MAN I KNOW A SNAKE THAT HAD IBD. THEY DID THIS KNOWINGLY. THE ANIMAL WAS CONFIRMED
WITH THIS DISEASE BY AVIAN EXOTIC ANIMAL HOSPITAL
IN SAN DIEGO.THIS IS ALL I WILL DISCUSS ABOUT THIS
MATTER UNTIL THE GENTLEMAN DECIDES HOW HE IS GOING TO PROCEDE WITH THIS MATTER.

[BRAZ]

MR ROWAN FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME IF LIKE TO DISCUSS
THE FINANCIAL DISAGREEMENT YOU AND I HAVE. YOU CAN PASS THAT ON TO HIM BILL CAGLE IF YOU LIKE. 619-944-1772.