A suggestion to everyone... [Archive]

A.Rentfro

03-25-2002, 09:19 AM

COMMUNICATION!

As was pointed out in an earlier post we need to answer our e-mails and return our calls, even if it is just to explain that there is a problem or a delay. It is not only good business but simple courtesy too...

It seems as if very many of the problems which end up here in the BOI start off as a missed or 'mis' communication and then escalate to an impasse.

Of course there are bad guys (and gals too I'm sure) out there who will make all the right moves and still rip you off, but communicating will get these guys what's coming to them too.

Thanks!

Gus@riobravoreptiles.com <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

John Bernardi

03-25-2002, 09:38 AM

Well said Gus, communication is a key that every good breeder and distributer should strive for.
John Bernardi AKA Herps & Burps, El Paso, TX

John Apple

03-25-2002, 09:48 AM

Thumbs up on communication
Also on reading , which if the rules were read clearly this thread would be in the discussion forum <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

A.Rentfro

03-25-2002, 10:15 AM

Thanks John!

....for the protocol reminder. I thought my post was pertinant but I won't slip up again!

Be sure to chastise 'Web-Slave' for posting his offers here.. they belong in the products and services page!

Later!

A. Rentfro
Gus@RioBravoReptiles.com <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

WebSlave

03-25-2002, 02:25 PM

In the rules page, just take it for granted that the phrase 'everyone but me', is implied......
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Clint Boyer

03-25-2002, 02:40 PM

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
Just don't ask the wrong questions! Right Gus?

HerpVenue

03-25-2002, 08:40 PM

That's too funny  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
at least you don't run this place like that Joe guy runs his.

okay wait....forget that last statement....I may have opened the door for a whole new tnagent to be started.

Neil Gubitz

03-25-2002, 09:07 PM

Communication? Communication!! I don't need no stinkin' communication!! ....that means you gotta TALK to them??? YUK!!  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

That DOES seem to be the way a lot of people feel about that subject these days, which is a real shame! OF COURSE communication is the key! I've been saying that for years!! But, it's NOT just the ACT of "getting in touch"....you could be the MOST EXPERIENCED breeder in the world, but...if you don't know how to spell, or if you don't know how to structure a simple sentence, or you can't verbally get your point across....what good is your herp knowledge? You are PERCEIVED as "dumb as a box of rocks"! Look...please don't get me wrong...I'm NOT trying to come down on ANYBODY in particular, I'm coming down on you AS A WHOLE! Herps are getting to be very popular these days, and the prices for new and exciting morphs are getting more expensive by the day! With THAT IN MIND...would you (as a CONSUMER) rather buy your animals from someone who AT LEAST SEEMS LIKE they have half a brain in their head?, or the "other guy"?? If 90% of you would just take 2 MINUTES to RE-READ what you just typed (instead of sending it directly to the post), you would be able to see for yourself what you just wrote...then, you can FIX the misspellings, you can add the word that was left out, etc....Folks...I'm telling you...people would rather spend their hard-earned money with DEALERS that are well-spoken and can type a simple sentence that makes sense! ESPECIALLY these days when e-mails are a way of life! Your potential customers very rarely get to meet you! They ONLY know you by what they READ in YOUR emails to them! I realize I'm going off on a "rant" here, but, I REALLY care about this subject! I would LOVE to see ALL OF US be PERCEIVED as the most knowledgeable industry there is! It would benefit EVERYONE!! So....If I've made ANY SENSE AT ALL...just take some time and re-read your posts??? Just a tip from your "Uncle Goobs"! ...Neil

AZTEC FRED

03-25-2002, 10:05 PM

"Smoke & Mirrors"

Neil,

I agree with you, that the way we come across definetly affects peoples perception of us and our business as well as the hobby as whole. I understand your post about  the intelligence of the breeder and his/her ability to share said intelligence. I TOTALLY agree, i have seen some brilliant people that NEVER got recognized in their chosen field and in fact had others who were DUMB but cunning steal their very own ideas. Go figure. All for lack of communication.

 I have also seen something else in this hobby:
People that pretend to be "Authorities" on a certain species of reptile, only to have never even bred or concentrated on that reptile themselves. I call this"Smoke&Mirrors" and I see it all the time, people bragging about their vast expereince with a snake they have no real knowledge of aside from reading articles that somebody else wrote.

But...what actually matters the MOST to me ISNT the breeders CONSUMATE PROFFESIONALISM(Whatever that really is)....but  instead the BREEDERS HEART.
I personally would take a person who was honest, forthright, opionated, but not the most vocal person over others when it came to purchaseing snakes from them. CHARACTER is in short supply in this business, as we have seen by the MANy posts concerning Boas &IBD recently. Sow me your flashy classified ads, nice pics, smartly worded text, and I will show you some HONEST guy that lives in the middle of Minnesota that cant afford any of that, has no idea how to post a classified ad, but REALLY is into keeping and breeding the particular type of snake that he likes. that guy gets my ticket almost every time. I am not talking about someone that lives in backwater egypt that sells boas by the tom regardless of the health but cant communicate well. Nor anyone that lives in Fla, Calif, Oregon etc that is in this just to make a buck.

Neil..I agree with you, we all seek knowledgeable people to buy goods from. But, knowledge can also be a very vague thing, with people pretending to have levels of it they dont have. The PERSONS Character is everything, good character doesnt always go along with bad communication skills, as we have seen on this BOI in the past several weeks.

                                              Fred
                                          (AZTEC   REPTILES)

WebSlave

03-25-2002, 10:37 PM

I guess the biggest question I have about this communication issue is:  How do you keep up with it all?

Somehow people got it into their heads that I know a little bit about corn snakes, and I am getting inundated with questions.  These cover the entire spectrum from "I am just getting into snakes and would like you to tell me everything you know" to "Please send me a price list of what you have available", thru "Is there any genetic relationship between the Lavender corns and the Caramel corns?", and everything in between.  Being in the business, I have to set priorities, without sounding mercenary about it, but when you get dozens of emails like this PER DAY, the ones you put off till later just never get answered.  Not without dropping everything else you need to do just to answer the emails.

So, again, how do you keep up with it all?  Right now, I have 498 emails that I have not responded to (and that doesn't count the ones I prunned off because my email file was getting too big.  Oops!  Just got the flag go up that MORE emails have just come in............

Is a short note explaining you are busy, sufficient?  Many of the emails to me will start off with "I know you are busy..."  but they still expect an answer.  Last year (or was it the year before?)  I used an auto-responder to try to fend off the bulk of the emails.  I think it caused me more trouble than it saved me.

So, I'm groping here.  What can I do to keep up with the volume of email without losing my business because I can't do what needs to be done to keep it running because I am answering emails (and maintaining these boards!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, or suffer from lost customers from the fact that I choose to spend my time taking care of my animals and ignore the bulk of the emails?  This is one hell of a catch-22, and I can't figure out an answer.

Before you say it, yes, I have set up message boards (one in particular about Corn Snakes specifically) to help draw off some of the questions for other people to help out with, but it seems to only draw more people to personally ask me questions.  I really wish I could respond to them all personally, but quite frankly it's just not possible to do any longer.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

HerpVenue

03-25-2002, 10:53 PM

he he he too funny
Hey Rich...I get 4-5 of those....and I refer them to the forums or answer them.
But dozens a day....I can see the frustration.  Specially around breeding season.  And specially the "tell me everything you know" e-mails.  But I am only a hobby.  So I still have time to respond.

I can't say that I know what to say to you.....
wait!  I do know what to say.
Good luck

dwedeking

03-25-2002, 11:05 PM

I am new to the herp world as a business but not new to business. Here are my thoughts:

1. The scammers and those out for a quick buck will shoot themselves in the foot 9 times out of 10. Yes they may take a sale or two but will eliminate themselves as a long term problem by the sheer fact that they screw people over and that spreads by word of mouth very fast. There costing you more money by wasting time dealing with them.

2.  The next generation of herpers that are 10 - 13 years old now will communicate via the internet almost exclusively. Being clear and concise in your communications will make you or break you. Also if you have to go back and forth 3 or 4 times to get your information in an understandable format you'll never get to those other 498 unopened emails (just an example not an attack).

3. Prioritize your sales leads. It sounds cold and uncaring but you have limited time in the day especially if your a solo operation. Teach yourself which types of emails turn into sales and which ones are just people wanting to pick your brain. Ask people to join your newsletter and take the most original questions and answer them there. If one person has the question I will guarantee you that there are 10 other people out there that have it to but just don't ask.

4. Utilize your website to it's fullest capabilities. Keep your availability list up to date (and mark the updated date so there is no question). Build a Frequently Asked Questions page with the common questions. Both of these will allow you to build form letters for availability and common questions (for example:  "We keep our current availability list online at www.yourbusiness.com/available.html. We have pricing, detailed descriptions and pictures for you to view. We update this on a daily/weekly basis so you'll always know what we have. If you see something on there you like, give us a call (800-555-5555) or email us and we'll arrange shipping for you"). This lets them know you are busy but that the information is there and your ready for them.

6. Take a break. One of the first posts I saw on this board was about a guy that everyone complained about because he was short on the phone. No customer likes to talk to a grumpy breeder on the phone or via email. Set aside a set period of time to answer emails/calls instead of trying to do them as your doing other things.

7. As the industry grows I think that brokers will find their place. Becoming that customer service layer between the customer and the breeder will. This will allow the breeder to concentrate on what he does best and the customer will get better service.

Ok, enough BS from me <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

suefrederick

03-25-2002, 11:13 PM

Rich, I would suggest copying what you just wrote, including the part about receiving so many emails that are asking just general advice, breeding result questions, etc; referring these people to specific books or caresheets on the web; adding in that people can see what snakes you have available at _; and putting something to the order of "if you have a specific question  about a snake that you have purchased from me, then email me back and use "question about snake I purchased from you on (date); and keeping the whole response on your computer. Then just email the whole thing back to anyone who emails you.

Either that or hire a full time secretary just to respond to those people.
sue frederick

Neil Gubitz

03-25-2002, 11:16 PM

Rich...You have a point! I'm not really sure what it is?, but, I know you have one?? <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> See, the way you write DOES give you the PERCEPTION of intelligence!! hahaha
OK...Your problem...I have NO CLUE!! I don't know WHAT I'd do if I got THAT MANY emails a day? I'd try my best to answer them, at first, but I can see myself getting very frustrated in the long run! Is there any way to hire on a part-time employee (like Connie, maybe??) strictly for answering emails?? Just a thought....

Fred....Ya talk a good game, man! I agree 100%!! Yeah...what HE said! ....

Hukt awn fonix werkd fer mee
lett et werk fur ewe, tuu!

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>  ....Neil

Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko

03-25-2002, 11:36 PM

Hey Rich!!!! since this is up I wont e-mail you my question, but whats the predicted offspring fom the geneticly mutated, gene spliced corns this year, that you are producing in you under ground lab?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  
   Communictaion is the key in any business, personal or otherwise!  I also find that the more I ramble back to e-mailed questions the more repeat business I get from them.  Im not anywhere near the capacity of a lot of the big breeders out there what so ever, so I have more time to ramble and talk shop so to speak.  I do tend to get a ton of e-mails from kids under 12 even that are kind of silly but no question is a stupid question I like to think, and I'd hate to deter a future herper by not giving them the same respect.  I just wanted to put in my two cents as I notice a large majority of these negative posts on the BOI could be avoided through proper communication.  Well good nite to all, and to all a good nite!     Mike

Monte

03-25-2002, 11:38 PM

I agree with a previous post which talked about a FAQ page. spam_I recently got into herps with Leopard Geckos (OK, don't rip me) and found a FAQ page on Tremper's site very valuable. spam_It answered many of my questions about albinos - and had an offer at the end to answer via email, if it wasn't in the FAQ. spam_

You're a popular guy with a great product. spam_That might help you out quite a bit and keep people from getting impatient. spam_(which people are getting increasingly good at)

That might help. spam_

Oh, and by the way Rich - ignore the question I sent to you. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> spam_

Go play with your snakes!!!! spam_
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Pennebaker

03-27-2002, 09:48 AM

i think some sort of disclaimer on your website about email correspondence would work best.   unless you have enough time to make a disclaimer that you can quickly email to 400 people???  boy, that's a lot of emails.  did you know that Loren from LLL Reptile has a full time employee that just answers email questions (not including orders done via internet)!!!  i thought that was pretty funny.  
Better communication, education, and better ethics are things that certainly need to be worked on in this biz--the pet stores, the brokers, and the breeders.  I'm not sure why we seem to think breeders are so much better than the other categories.  
Dana

WebSlave

03-27-2002, 10:57 PM

Just to prove a point, I just got the following email, along with my reply back to this person:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I am extremely sorry that I could not bend over backwards to help you.  Did you buy those snakes from me?  If not, why to you believe I owed you any answer, even if I had the time?  The answers to your questions would have taken a LOT more time than my reply, or were you expecting a reply so simple that it WOULD have been shorter?

So please explain to me exactly why it is that I owed you any information at all.  I'm really curious.

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

Rich Zuchowski

LISA WOODWARD wrote:

 OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD TIME TO TYPE THIS MESSAGE BUT NOT ENOUGH TIME TO ANSWER  THE MAIN QUESTION THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP I FOUND SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN TAKE  THE TIME TO ANSWER ME!!!!

 >From: Rich Zuchowski <rich@serpenco.com>
 >To: WOODWARDLISA <EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED>
 >Subject: Re: first year breeding
 >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2:33 -0500
 >
 >
 >
 >WOODWARDLISA wrote:
 >
 > > I have some corn snakes that I put together and they had eggs. This is
 > > my first time breeding them and I do not really know what to do with
 > > the eggs. I have some friends that told me to put them in some
 > > fermiculite and put them in a warm place with lots of moisture. Is
 > > there anything else that I should know about taking care of the eggs?
 > > I don't know if they will turn out this is my first time doing this.
 > > Please let me know if there are any other things I should
 > > know.                                               Thank
 > > You                                                 Lisa
 >
 >Lisa,
 >
 >Unfortunately this is just a very busy time of year for me.  I have set
 >up a message board system at http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums where you
 >would likely get some answers to your questions.
 >
 >Sorry I can't be of more help, but right now I am swamped.....
 >
 >--
 >Rich Zuchowski
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

So here she asks me a multi-level question, with a followup to chime in with any other tips I could provide, that would have taken a good bit of time to explain fully.  I tried to direct her to the cornsnake forum I set up where just this very topic had been addressed recently.  But did she take my advice?  Of course not!  She would rather blast me because I didn't take the time to give her a personal answer and cater to her.  She needed the information spoon fed to her and since I wasn't willing to wield the spoon, she gets peeved at me.

So let me ask something that has been bugging me lately.  Why is it that people whom have bought their snakes from any number of other sources believe that everyone else is REQUIRED to help them when they need it?   Go buy a Chevrolet and then call the Ford factory for help with a problem you are having with your new car.  Or buy a Dell computer and call Gateway for help.  What kind of responses do you think you will get?

Granted, when we have time, most of us will be our best to help, but I'm seeing more and more instances where people not only EXPECT your help, but will slam you if you do not. They act like everyone OWES them their time and efforts just because of a similar interest.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

dwedeking

03-27-2002, 11:37 PM

Rich,

A this is only my opinion and not a personal dig on you. In the factual matter that you do not owe this person anything and under any obligation to answer her you are 100% correct. A simple switch in the intent of your reply removes her reason for a nasty email back. Try this for example.

"Lisa,

I've set up a message board at http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/ so everyone can share their knowledge and experiences. I encourage you to ask your question there as this is a frequent question and I am sure their are plenty of people that want to know as well. "

Now you've taken away her "OOOH your too busy for the little guy" complaint. It's not all about you and your too busy for her, it's now about how your helping the community. Two things will happen.

a) You will get that same nasty email back (which I would have just ignored) just proving that she hasn't had proper sex this decade and blames everyone for that.

b) She will post this question on the board and get an answer (even if you have to go back when you have time and answer it yourself). This will teach her that the board is a source for information and her next two questions will go to the board instead of to you.

If she chooses option B she will also more than likely tell someone about the board which is yours so you get the atta boy. Also if she chooses option B you don't get the second email which only leaves you 497 to answer <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

It takes the same amount of time to type both replies.

In reality I don't think that hobbyists that are raising one or two animals realize the HUGE amount of time that it takes to raise the number/quality that you are raising.

Neil Gubitz

03-27-2002, 11:56 PM

Rich...I can't TELL YOU how many times someone has come into my store with a sick animal they bought from another pet shop (because it was A LITTLE less expensive), and then basically DEMAND that I help them?? I would help them ANYWAY! But, it's the WAY they ask?? I actually ask them (VERY politely), "I'll be HAPPY to help you, but...Why are you bringing the animal HERE?? Why don't you go to the place you bought it?"....The answer (99% of the time) is..."Nobody knew what to do?, they sent me TO YOU!" It REALLY boggles my mind! Of course....EVERY PERSON I've helped, is now MY customer!! It really DOES pay to be helpful to ANY animal.... your sale, or not!
Rich...In the scenario you mentioned...you could have easily gotten out of it (and saved face) by telling her that the info she got from the other people was correct! End of email! I don't THINK it was THAT far off, was it?? You could have been helpful in less time than it took you to say you didn't have the time??? Even though I KNOW you DIDN'T!! (have the time)!
In YOUR case, because of the ENORMITY of the emais...it might BE a good idea to put a blurb or two on your site AND in your ads addressing this problem....Neil

Winston

03-28-2002, 12:45 AM

You know I get people asking em about leopard gecko all the time beause before I was big on getting into boas I started with leopards. and a lot of times I direct them to the herpindex run by Ron Tremper and on that index he has a lot of care info link and  one of them is Melissa Kapelin ( I hope I spell it right if not I'm sorry Melissa) She has a large data base complie of a lot of reptile care and info. So next time people ask you for care info direct them to herpindex.com
That is actually were my reptile experience began because the info was direct foward and simplified for me.  

Let me know if this help ya'll out in directing new herp owner on care info

Have a great one <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Winston

Todd Evans

03-28-2002, 01:17 AM

Ok....Since we're on the topic of advice given and people "demanding" help.  I would like everyone to realize that things are also a little more confusing in the Venomous dealers world.  Some of these animals are so understudied that there are still arguments over scientific names and what to call them, yet you still get people asking you VERY detailed questions about a certain species you keep, expecting you to be a geneticist, a biologist, a bio-chemist, and such.  There are some questions that NOBODY knows the answers to.  For instance, when I was approached by somebody that had a question about an ammodytes viper we were sold, they wanted to know the locality.  Since these snakes are few and far between in the trade, I simply didn't know.  The person we bought it off of didn't know, so they didn't tell me.  But when the individual asked me and I told him I had no clue, he basically questioned why I'd even sell something I didn't know about.  I mean come on.......it's a long nosed viper, I know that you need to breed ones from the same European mountain ranges, but if you know the ranges, then you SHOULD know the snakes.

This is the part that irritates me, just like Riches little episode.  THERE IS TONS OF INFO ON THE NET ABOUT BREEDING CORNSNAKES........people are just too darned lazy to find it themselves.  LOOK IT UP....BUT A BOOK....doesn't the corn snake manuel have some good info?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??and it's what, $7.  EVERY animal I own has been researched by ME....I bought books, I read web pages, care sheets, and SEARCHED FORUM ARCHIVES.......Even the Kingsnake.com Cornsnake forum HAD to have archived posts concerning EXACTLY what this woman wanted.  Id it OUR responsibility to research THEIR animals for them?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??  What if they bought a tiger.....would they call the zoo to ask how to take care of it....if they did, the zoo would be there instantly to confiscate the animal......These people only accomplish one thing....proof of stupidity or laziness.....if you don't find out yourself how to breed cornsnakes, then maybe you just weren't meant to do it.....Since Rich gave teh advice, shouldn't he get the clutch....without him, it wouldn't have happened right?  

Anyway, enough of my rant, I just wish that people would get off their lazt A$$ES and look some information up BEFORE wasting everybodies time with questions that have been answered already thoudsands of times.

Whoo.......now my fingers hurt...sorry so long

Winston

03-28-2002, 01:22 AM

Hey for Venomus animals go to thesnake.org they provid many venomus info. everything from the chemical secretion to the first aid and some care on  venomus species but then agian herpindex has some care on vipers and venomus snakes also

so it is your choice

Hope this helps <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Winston

dwedeking

03-28-2002, 02:01 AM

Todd,

Agree 100%. Problem is that these morons are your customers who pay for the food for the animals etc. (FYI this is a common problem in all industries). Your gonna have to deal with them somehow (frustrating as it is) so the trick to learn is how to deal with them in an efficient manner and at the same time they go away thinking you took care of them.

Wonder what would have happened if you agreed with the customer and said "your right. I don't think I should sell this snake. I'll keep him for study." <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> Sometimes it worth it to lose a sale just to see the expression on their faces.

Todd Evans

03-28-2002, 02:58 AM

The thing is, most of the time these people aren't even potential customers......They just think that since you sell or breed ANY animal that you have all the answers.....YOU MIGHT, but you had to learn theem somewhere.  I just wish people today would do a little brainwork for themselve, THEN ask question when the information they gather confuses them.  Nothing make me happier then to answer somebodies wuestion when they have the basics already.  For instance, in Rich's case, somebody would ask him "tell me everything you know"  now, maybe Rich would anser them if they asked something to the effect of "hey, I understand the ptoential offspring outcome when you cross snake X with snake Y, but what it snake X was het for trait A and snake Y was het for trait B.  If trsit A is polygenic, what would be the outcome of the offspring"

You see, the person would have SOME knowledge of morphs, genetics and statistics basicaly just to ask the question, and Rich would LOVE to show off his knowledge by answering it....but just asking, "hey dude what do you know," would lead me to say "a heck of a lot more than you obviously.  The thing is, WE had to WORK to get the knowledge we have, but some people just take that for granted and expect us to be teachers....know what I mean, or am I WAY out of line.  Point is, they can find the same answers (and more) that we looked for years ago to get us to this point.  All it takes is the desire to WANT to find the answers on your own....it's like kids and homework.....should they ask the parents to help them, or do it for them......I for one will NEVER do my childs homework FOR them....they have to learn something from the experience of having to do it for themselves.

just my thoughts, I might just be mean, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it........

WebSlave

03-28-2002, 03:55 AM

LOL!!

Good one, Todd!

You have no idea how many emails I get each year that say something like "Hey dood!  I have a term paper due, like next Tuesday on Corn Snakes.  Can you send me everything you know so I can get a good grade on it?"  I am not making this up!  I have often thought of making up a file of the best ones I have received over the years.

Now I love the technical questions, at least the ones I can answer, but man, how many times have you been at a show and someone tries to dazzle you with a real techie question and half way through your explanation you notice the glazed eyes?  Sometimes I go into TOO MUCH detail, I guess.

People just need to be able to think for themselves.  Or at least know how to FIND information and do research.  I guess I never expected people to spoon feed information to me, and I just can't cope when I run into people that think differently.  Heck I dropped out of college EARLY when it became obvious that the instructors weren't teaching me how to learn.  They were teaching me to memorize.   So maybe the schools have gotten even worse than they were 30 years ago.

Todd Evans

03-28-2002, 03:58 AM

WOW.....you're old....kidding, please don't ban me for that......

I'm only 26 and you wouldn't believe the questions I get from people in their 40s even.....it's absolutely amazing how little people want to find out on their own......and yes, the glazed over look is quite common with us.....

Thanks

dwedeking

03-28-2002, 09:41 AM

Todd,

Your not out of line at all. The point I was trying to make is if you brush the ones that haven't done their homework off in such a manner that they don't view your brush off in a negative manner it helps your business.

And my moron comment was not sarcastic. My cousin and I have a running bet on who has the most unthinking customers (unrelated indsutries). So far we can't decide on a winner because we always because a new one comes along every day.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> Right now the topper is a customer of mine that said a shopping cart system we built sends her blank receipts (turns out she needed ink in her printer).  It's all you can do not to drive your car off a bridge just to end the pain <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Boasnsuch

03-28-2002, 09:57 AM

I get a ton of e-mails from people asking for information on animals that we don't even keep!  Sometimes it drives me a little nuts, any search engine could return the information they're looking for.  Now I just save "general" responses, which are basically a list of links that I send to them.  Now I'm more than happy to answer specific questions, but questions like "I need all the info i can find on (insert herp here)'s care, breeding, housing, etc." You're going to get a list of links and a short message.  I know it seems somewhat rude, but I get 10-15 e-mails a day like this, and I just don't have the time to do everyone's research for them.  I guess if you look at it another way, at least they are trying to find information, so they're not going to just throw something in a cage and wonder why it dies a week later.

Neil Gubitz

03-28-2002, 10:00 AM

Hey Dan...how bout THIS ONE??? This past Sunday, a guy walks into my store with a snake wrapped around his hand and forearm, proclaiming he JUST FOUND IT outside and wanted to know what it was???!!! He said...(you're gonna LOVE this one!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>....my friend said it's a Florida Scarlet Kingsnake and they make great pets! Well, needless to say...it WASN'T A SCARLET KINGSNAKE!! Any of you geniuses want to guess what it was??? DUH!! When I told him what it REALLY was....he ALMOST had a coronary ON THE SPOT! Remember....he STILL had it around his hand!! I got it off him without a scratch, though! (lucky man!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>...Neil

dwedeking

03-28-2002, 10:11 AM

Kara,

That's exactly what I'm talking about <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Neil,

I am assuming a non-cuddly one <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Neil Gubitz

03-28-2002, 10:19 AM

Dan...Oh NO! "She" was the MOST cuddly "CORAL SNAKE" you will ever see! She was also one of the LARGEST I have come across! She measured 34" long, and about 3/4" thick!!!! Sweet, huh??....Neil

Todd Evans

03-28-2002, 12:58 PM

Neil.....you still got her....how much?

Also, can you tell me about the brumation and breeding habits of the eastern coral snake?  I heard once that they can eat popcorn...is that true?  I was hoping to get one that was trained on F/T popcorn (I hate feeding live) BTW, is it not also true that with a pair of plyers I can just YANK out her teeth to make her a venomoid so I have no worry about getting bit and dying?  Huh? Huh? Can I do it?  oh yeah, I plan on keeping her in the same cage as a scarlet (not king) snake.....will the GET ALONG?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?...............I also heard that tehy are the only "Elastic" snake in North America.......(Elapid) HA HA HA (give me a break, just woke up)

Now.....would you sell her to ME?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Please not the sarcasm....Trust me I'm not THAT stupid........

Ok, to go off on another tangent here....what about the dealers that don't know ANYTHING about what they sell?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  At Hamburg about 2 years ago, we bought a pair of EGG-EATING snakes.  When we asked the dealer what the babies eat (expecting him to say something about finch or hummingbird eggs) he told us Crickets....WHAT?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  They are EGG-EATING snakes....we figured, he HAS babies (fresh WC) he must be feeding them something, but I guess not.....goes to show you never can tell.......

Anyway, I enjoy talking about how dumb some people can be.......

Thanks

Neil Gubitz

03-28-2002, 01:19 PM

Sorry, buddy...first of all, I DON'T have my "hots" license!, and second, I gave it a "catch and release" guy who brought it back to Mother Nature!

As far as your questions go....for the last two months or so, I've been referring ALL these questions to Rich Zuchowski!! He LOVES answering those things!! He can go on for DAYS!! Just ASK HIM???
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> ....Neil

WebSlave

03-28-2002, 02:15 PM

LOL!!

I remember at one of the early Mid-Atlantic Shows we attended there was a guy selling a bunch of corn snakes and he must have been getting the typical genetics questions I've come to expect.  Obviously he couldn't reply to them, because every couple of hours he would come by my table with his notebook and read off the questions to me and write down my answers.  I guess he was telling people he needed to think about it and would get back to them with an answer.
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Some friends of ours whom we usually do shows with participate in a game each show where the winner is the one whom got the most interesting question at the show.  At one Raleigh show, they won with the question from someone while looking at leopard geckos:  "Why do they have legs?"

At another Mid-Atlantic Show, we won the prize when someone asked "How do you know if a snake is dead?"

Tongue biters, all of them............

bssnakes

03-28-2002, 03:19 PM

This has nothing to do with reptiles!!  But I think it is worth posting here.  About 15 yrs. ago up in Glacier National Park here in Montana.  There were two older couples mid 60's or older enjoying a day in the park. They were almost all the way through the park when they realized that they had not seen a Glacier yet!!!  So they stopped and asked a maintance worker. When is the best time to see a Glacier?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  And they were told between 2am and 4am!! Because that was the coldest and also quitest part of each 24 hr period! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
  Tom

Neil Gubitz

03-28-2002, 08:08 PM

Hey Rich Z.....Here's one for YOU!! This was sent to me yesterday via THIS SITE!!

Neil,
I know that you do not know me, but I have posted on Richs site a few times, and I breed cornsnakes in Missouri. What I wanted to ask is something that I am almost positive about, but I want to be 100% certain. If I breed a bloodred to another morph of corn, wont all of the resulting hatchlings be het for bloodred? If not, why not? Thanks for you answer to this -- D.C.

Anybody want to field this?? I'm certain the answer's yes, but...only the Shadow knows for sure!! ....

This is just one of MANY questions I get every day! If I KNOW the answer, I answer them at once....if I don't know the answer, I refer them to someone who does! So, Rich...this Bud's for YOU! (again!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> ....
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> ....Neil

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Three reasons why I won't respond with an answer here:

(1)  Possibly I already responded to this person's request and he is simply looking for a second opinion,
(2)  Possibly this person is one of the emails on my waiting list to respond to,
(3)  This is not the place for these types of questions to be asked, nor answered.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Rich Z.
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