Legalities for purchasing Alligators in PA, and OH

[ApexJake]

Hello everyone. after doing some calling around and getting no where i was hoping someone could tell me what the legalities of purchasing a alligator from PA an OH. I need to know if the state requires any federal or state licenses to legally sell crocodila in those states. If you have information please cite your information. thanks!

[bigalosu]

Not in Ohio. Ohio only has laws regarding native species.

[ApexJake]

that sounds about right for state laws, what about the federal level especially dealing with interstate import/export?

[bigalosu]

Ohio's Exotic Animal Law simply states that it is illegal for anyone to bring a non-domestic or exotic animal into the state without the proper permits, a health certificate for each animal and a certificate from a veterinarian stating that the animal has been inspected. This law also states that anyone who wishes to possess a non-domestic or exotic animal in the state will not need a permit to do so, only to have them imported into the state.

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/901:1-17-12

[bigalosu]

For PA:
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exotic_animals_state.php?s=pa

[ApexJake]

Ohio's Exotic Animal Law simply states that it is illegal for anyone to bring a non-domestic or exotic animal into the state without the proper permits, a health certificate for each animal and a certificate from a veterinarian stating that the animal has been inspected. This law also states that anyone who wishes to possess a non-domestic or exotic animal in the state will not need a permit to do so, only to have them imported into the state.

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/901:1-17-12

bigalosu. Thats exactly what i need to know and thank you!

Under the conditions on the endangered and threatened species license from NYS DEC they allow you to import, transport, and possess (X animal) obtained from a legal source. Then goes on to say other things you must do within NY after having it. So that wraps up the state to state problem. Now what about federal matters ei The U.S. Fish and Wildlife service and USDA?

From every department in the USDA ive talked to they have nothing to do with reptiles especially crocodilians, but have yet to get the straight facts from F+W.

[ApexJake]

question on state to state still stands; you can own it without permit but are you allowed to then sell or resell them without permit?

[bigalosu]

No problem. The info is out there, sometimes it takes a little work to find it.
For Ohio, I know it is legal to sell and resell without a permit once they are in the state. I am not sure about PA.

[hhmoore]

As far as the Federal stuff is concerned, alligators are not on the USES list, so Federal permits are not required for interstate transport or possession. It's kind of a weird situation, as some CITES 1 animals (crocodilians) require Federal paperwork & others don't (dumerils and argentine boas)...the way it was explained to me was that, initially, all CITES 1 animals went on the USES; but, after a certain revision or year, only US natives that were made CITES 1 got put on the USES list.

For PA, I can't speak to individual/private sales (and don't have time at the moment to look it up), but to sell at a show or bring animals from out of state to be sold, there is a permit required. There are a couple of different ones, and I haven't done a PA show in a couple years - I'll have to dig out my paperwork for the specifics.
Hope this helps.

[ApexJake]

As far as the Federal stuff is concerned, alligators are not on the USES list, so Federal permits are not required for interstate transport or possession. It's kind of a weird situation, as some CITES 1 animals (crocodilians) require Federal paperwork & others don't (dumerils and argentine boas)...the way it was explained to me was that, initially, all CITES 1 animals went on the USES; but, after a certain revision or year, only US natives that were made CITES 1 got put on the USES list.


DO you have any supporting legislation or can you cite this from any reliable source? Just so the details are clear? thank you

[hhmoore]

Which part - I checked into the matter several years ago. I know I don't have links and emails saved here (on my computer), but I may have posted the information someplace.

[hhmoore]

Reliable source? You mean like USFW and the United States Endangered Species List?

[ApexJake]

i ask because i know of the CITES and have seen they are no long endangered obviously but ARE threatened, but only due to similarity in appearance to the american crocodile. Which still account for some legal issues esp. federal.

[ApexJake]

I cant find this USES list? And i mean where is it written are hard proof that you do or do not need certain federal permits for ownership, exhibition, sell or resale, and transportation across state line (facts are the only thing people care about when its a problem). Specifically for american alligator.

[hhmoore]

USES = United States Endangered Species (list)

I'll try to see if can locate the info easily, but I'm not going to make new inquiries. Definitely won't be until later in the weekend.

[hhmoore]

btw - It isn't generally written anywhere that you don't need paperwork, licenses, etc for something...only that you do.

[ApexJake]

btw - It isn't generally written anywhere that you don't need paperwork, licenses, etc for something...only that you do.

Your right, but then if not id like something on the contrary that shows it can be done without those. Or proof that they dont have involvement in it to safeguard myself.

[hhmoore]

Why not go right to the source, if that's the case? Contact USF&W, get a statement, and keep it on file.

[ApexJake]

tried... i have several phone numbers to national, regional, and local levels. There was a lot of call dumping before i reached the decision to ask for the investigation and enforcement department. If they I contacted region 5 (NY,PA) and 3 (OH). I got only answering machine to region 3, and talked to a wildlife inspector goldmann in my region.. thats a different story but he is supposed to get back to me, but still hasnt.

[ApexJake]

I figured they would be the ones giving anyone the problem so theyd want to know the laws they are enforcing.

[ApexJake]

Im now coming on the problem of shipping... Finding a service that will legally ship a live small alligator. shipyourreptiles.com has a service agreement through UPS and under that they have a list of accepted and prohibited animals; live crocodilians are prohibited as well as threatened OR endangered species. Delta dash also will NOT ship and or course usps wouldnt.

[ApexJake]

my answer

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=f77678fff9b44e60bffca1dcf54cc2f0&rgn=div8&view=text&node=50:2.0.1.1.1.4.1.5&idno=50

[ApexJake]

http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

FedEx Express does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular-scheduled service and does not transport household pets such as dogs, cats, birds and hamsters. FedEx Express may accept certain shipments of live animals such as horses, livestock and zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) on an exception basis if approved and coordinated by the FedEx Live Animal Desk (call 1.800.405.9052).

*if you call that number they will tell you no they will not ship reptiles

[ApexJake]

found my other answer. Deltas "Pet First" service will not ship, they cater to warm blooded. They do not say anything in regards to ToE species, but shipping specs need to me to IATA standards which can be bought here???
http://www.iata.org/ps/publications/live-animals.htm

http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/special_travel_needs/pet_travel_information/pet_requirements_restrictions/index.jsp

Reptiles, other than snakes, need to be placed in a container constructed of wood, plastic or corrugated material. For flight purposes, animals in this category include:

* Caiman
* Chameleons
* Frogs
* Geckos
* Iguanas
* Lizards
* Newts
* Salamanders
* Toads

Delta will not accept shipments of live snake (venomous or non-venomous) or venomous reptiles for carriage from an unknown shipper.

[Twizted Paths]

http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

FedEx Express does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular-scheduled service and does not transport household pets such as dogs, cats, birds and hamsters. FedEx Express may accept certain shipments of live animals such as horses, livestock and zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) on an exception basis if approved and coordinated by the FedEx Live Animal Desk (call 1.800.405.9052).

*if you call that number they will tell you no they will not ship reptiles

Run a search on this site, getting a fed ex reptile shipping certification/waiver is covered step by step in great and repeating detail here in multiple threads by people here who have done it.

[ApexJake]

Run a search on this site, getting a fed ex reptile shipping certification/waiver is covered step by step in great and repeating detail here in multiple threads by people here who have done it.

thank you! ive kinda moved my focus to the shipping threads already started for more info.