Florida Passes Ban On large Snakes

[Crypt keeper]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Python-Bill-Slithers-Way-Through-Florida-Senate-and-House-92325419.html

[dustinntech]

That's so stupid...


The snakes, many of which have been released by owners or escaped during Hurricane Andrew, have been breeding in substantial numbers, with estimates as high as over 100,000 roaming the Everglades and elsewhere.

The latest one, which ended earlier this month, didn't do much good.

So there are over 100,000 but they couldnt even find one...

[jscianni21]

what all snakes are involved with this ban and what type of funding is it going to recieve i mean honestly this is just ridiculous i guess this means pretty soon we won't be able to keep any type of animals pretty soon pet rocks will come back into fashion

[Mikey Triangles]

That's so stupid...






So there are over 100,000 but they couldnt even find one...

hahaha, in the 80's it was killer africanized Bees, then in the 90's it was west nile killer mosquitoes, now it's killer burmese pythons that somehow translate into outlawing your pets!

if this was really about irresponsible pet owners and whats destroying the environment how about outlawing pet cats. feral cats are a nationwide epidemic, and are dangerous to the environment on a much larger scale. why single out and demonize pet snakes?

[Mikey Triangles]

what all snakes are involved with this ban and what type of funding is it going to recieve i mean honestly this is just ridiculous i guess this means pretty soon we won't be able to keep any type of animals pretty soon pet rocks will come back into fashion

it's the reptiles of concern. a list of reptiles believed to have established a population in florida or that are considered high risk for starting a population since, according to some officials reptile owners release their deadly pets into the wild as soon as they're old enough to breed :rolleyes:

the animals on the ROC list are the burmese python, the nile monitor, the reticulated python, African rock python, Scrub python, Green anaconda, and they might have added a couple more.

In NY they did the same thing several years ago. even banned yellow anacondas which I owned. after the law passed my parents forced me to send them to a collector in ohio... like Anacondas are going to take over NYC sewers.

[Lucas339]

hasn't fully passed. govenor crist has a week to decide if he wants to sign it.

[jscianni21]

hasn't fully passed. govenor crist has a week to decide if he wants to sign it.

he'll sign just to make him self look like he did something good for the enviroment . and use it as a campaign tactic that he is eviromentaly aware . its all bs


i'm gonna start building a rock breeding facility so by 2017 i'll be rdy :ack2:

[jscianni21]

hahaha, in the 80's it was killer africanized Bees, then in the 90's it was west nile killer mosquitoes, now it's killer burmese pythons that somehow translate into outlawing your pets!

if this was really about irresponsible pet owners and whats destroying the environment how about outlawing pet cats. feral cats are a nationwide epidemic, and are dangerous to the environment on a much larger scale. why single out and demonize pet snakes?

its easier to demonize scaley snakes then cute:reddevil: fluffy:dgrin: kitty :reddevil:cats

[R. Eventide]

its easier to demonize scaley snakes then cute:reddevil: fluffy:dgrin: kitty :reddevil:cats

This is exactly it.

[Mikey Triangles]

its easier to demonize scaley snakes then cute:reddevil: fluffy:dgrin: kitty :reddevil:cats

I find it hilarious how they blame the exotic reptiles for the decline of floridas endangered small rodents... meanwhile feral and even PET cats kill off way more then any species of reptile in the state.

[jscianni21]

I find it hilarious how they blame the exotic reptiles for the decline of floridas endangered small rodents... meanwhile feral and even PET cats kill off way more then any species of reptile in the state.
i donno this whole thing kinda screwed like my whole plan of wanting to breed snakes because i knoy they r gonna add ball pythons and i was gonna get my permit to get a burm but i donno i just feel betrayed by our legislative in this there is somne problens in the everglades but i think if they put a thing out that in order to have big snake get a permit a tracking probe so if someone does let it loose they know who did it .. all in all its just a sad day :crap:

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

pretty soon pet rocks will come back into fashion

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.

[Lucas339]

call and email his office. we got him to over turn a stupid education bill this month.

http://www.flgov.com/contact_governor

[Mikey Triangles]

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.


masterfully done :D

[sallen87]

Don't stand for...


The Florida Fish And Wildlife Service does not have the personel or the desire to enforce this law.

Do as you please. But, I will never bend to the will of our corrupt government. When good, practical science is thrown out for "hog-wash" and polictical agendas, I do not heed.

Force them to deal with the fact that they just created another "underground" culture.

[jscianni21]

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.


omg i laughed my arse offf on that well done

[jason longboard]

So it wasnt signed, can it still be stopped? If so, we need links and info please.

[brd7666]

It still has to be signed by the governor. He will be signing it for sure. He is not going to go against everyone like that. The voting was unanimous in the house and senate. July 1, 2010 it will become law. There is no stopping it.

I am not trying to sound negative here, I am only being honest, and nothing is being sugar coated.

[R. Eventide]

It still has to be signed by the governor. He will be signing it for sure. He is not going to go against everyone like that. The voting was unanimous in the house and senate. July 1, 2010 it will become law. There is no stopping it.

I am not trying to sound negative here, I am only being honest, and nothing is being sugar coated.

Well...poop. :(

[Mikey Triangles]

IMO they should let more large constrictors go in florida to take care of the feral cat problem. haha

[Yaz23]

Holy :censored:! I didnt know about this "ban". Wow... I never thought an actual BAN would happen; just the use of the ROC permit. This is rediculous.

This is what happens when dumb irresponsible morons come out to play in our hobby. "Oh I want a BIG snake, because I want to show it off and be the bad ass person who has the biggest one" :angry: :SLAP: to the face of that person!

I truly hope this doesnt go through. I dont even own any of the species involving this ban but hope it doesnt happen. Everyone who owns those species I assume will have to sell them all? How would they know if people were keeping them anyway? :rolleyes: Oh wait I know! Little children will start missing from houses and we'll blame all the retics and afrocks for that!

[bear]

I agree with Seth. Fight it to the end and if it still goes through, keep your reptiles securely and responsibley and dont comply with the legislation. Florida is in bad shape, I highly doubt there will be any muscle behind this legislation. This is probably going to be just look at what i did effect for politicians. Either way, some of us in the industry are going to be put in the position to either take our lumps and stand up for our industry or lay down and set presidents for more legislation. We owe this to our hobby and America. I am proud of Constitutional America and the values it stood for, but the America we are heading towards and may already be living in is borderline disgraceful. It will take people like our founding fathers to stand up and change that. I would love to say I am proud of my country again.

[Melinda]

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.

Oh crap!! I've got rocks everywhere. Well, they can pry them from my cold dead hands, just like my guns. :shootfoot lol

IMO they should let more large constrictors go in florida to take care of the feral cat problem. haha
05-06-2010 03:37 PM


I thought gators would take care of that.

I'm confused, don't gators pose the same risks as large snakes?

[brd7666]

I'm confused, don't gators pose the same risks as large snakes?

Gators are native, burms are not.

[redhood23]

The ban is major b.s. I moved from fla about 3 years ago, used to go herping all the time. the only non native animal i found were cats, cuban treefrogs, knight anoles, cane toads(which are now considered to be somewhat native)

[Southern Wolf]

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.

Now thats the Mike I know..... . :thumbsup:

[jasbus]

You know, the sad thing is, nobody ever brings up all the animals that got loose during Hurricane Andrew. I mean, there were hundreds of animals loose after the hurricane. Hum, that was when??? 92? Gee, I wonder if that may have anything to do with this as well... I remember the stories of lions and monkeys loose for crying out loud.
I just can't imagine that many people are letting their pet burms loose. I know there are morons out there doing it, but come on...

Personally, I don't sell large snake species to anyone who doesn't know what they're doing. I sell a ton of balls, corns, etc, but if you want a burm from my shop, you've got to convince me first.
I receive snakes all the time from people who are sick of them, or "are moving". They're not letting them go, at least not around here.

Having said that, and just moved out of Florida two years ago, I have to say, that they do need to do something about it.
Maybe they'll do the same as they did on feral hogs, I mean, they're all but gone now, right?:D

[gszoo]

I completely agree! Feral cat populations should be actively hunted just like burmese pythons are now in FL...
cats should get microchiped, and free-roaming or feral cats found with microchips, should result in owners being held accountable.
Want a Burm? Get a permit and microchip/register it.

[Mikey Triangles]

The ban is major b.s. I moved from fla about 3 years ago, used to go herping all the time. the only non native animal i found were cats, cuban treefrogs, knight anoles, cane toads(which are now considered to be somewhat native)

the cuban treefrogs have taken over the middle-east coast. Unfortunately it seems that the native species of tree-frogs are very high up on their choice of prey. As adults they can be almost as big as bullfrogs with a similar appetite. They are a serious problem, but they make great pets and adapt quickly to captivity. I was filling buckets with them for a while and just giving them to people as pets.

just to give you an idea of their size at adulthood, here is mine:

[RogerProws]

Don't stand for...


The Florida Fish And Wildlife Service does not have the personel or the desire to enforce this law.

Do as you please. But, I will never bend to the will of our corrupt government. When good, practical science is thrown out for "hog-wash" and polictical agendas, I do not heed.

Force them to deal with the fact that they just created another "underground" culture.

It worked with prohibition, so why not?

Reptile mafia?

[Strike_Force_Reptiles]

i agree, we call call ourselve reptafia :thumbsup:
lol sounds like a new candy bar dont it lol

[Vypyrz]

Well, apparently something got signed into law. The news report isn't too specific and haven't heard anything from USARK yet...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/03/1662386/crist-signs-fla-python-ban-ephedrine.html

Does anyone have any info on this?

[Mikey Triangles]

Also I was told those with ROC permits will be grandfathered in. Any info on that?

[Piratepythons]

I agree with Seth. Fight it to the end and if it still goes through, keep your reptiles securely and responsibley and dont comply with the legislation. Florida is in bad shape, I highly doubt there will be any muscle behind this legislation. This is probably going to be just look at what i did effect for politicians. Either way, some of us in the industry are going to be put in the position to either take our lumps and stand up for our industry or lay down and set presidents for more legislation. We owe this to our hobby and America. I am proud of Constitutional America and the values it stood for, but the America we are heading towards and may already be living in is borderline disgraceful. It will take people like our founding fathers to stand up and change that. I would love to say I am proud of my country again.

Here here We need to remember the principals and values that America was founded on It was not created for the government to dictate what animals we can keep or how can we make it so people who will not work because they are lazy sorry individuals can have everything that want to make their lives even easier Also when will the government realize that bans dont work Look at illegal drugs, guns, and immigrants 'ur government cant enforce the bans they hAve now what makes them think they can control the animals we keep I for one will never give up any of the animals I keep because the government says so but that is just ME

[TheVipersHouse]

This just in...

NO MORE PET ROCKS!

...On April 30, 2010, the U.S. Senate and House voted on a bill that could prohibit the ownership, sale, and interstate transport of all rocks & stones. Government officials are concerned that exotic species of rocks could inadvertently be released into American ecosystems and potentially threaten certain rock types currently protected.

"People have been keeping these rocks for years, but don't realize how dangerous they can actually be,' says a representative of the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources, "There are several forms of small pebbles & stones, but some rocks can be quite enormous, usually referred to as boulders. These boulders are heavy, and require more than one person to move. An unwary person could stub their toe on one, or the rock could actually roll over and crush them unexpectantly for no reason. These are NOT pets."

Several geoculturist groups (hobbyists who breed and raise rocks, stones & boulders) are adamantly protesting this bill. "This bill could effectively destroy 30% of the world's economy," comments rock lobbyist Stanely Stone of the United States Association of Rock Keepers (USARK), "Many hobbyists enjoy the relatively easy care of pet rocks compared to other animals. Also, it is common practice to introduce rocks into enclosures of other animals for decoration, as all rocks co-exist peacefully with other pets. Geoculture represents about 33% of the pet industry, and even more for agricultural & industrial use. The Bill is not founded on anything scientific."

Many government officials disagree with Stone's statements, and comment that in addition to their other concerns, rocks and stones could also be used as projectile weapons (often being hurled or thrown at an another person) and therefore, are not safe for human possession.

OMFG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i almost pissed myself while reading this ..

Great job and done so real like .. excellent i needed a good laugh today ..

[Hybridbird]

Also I was told those with ROC permits will be grandfathered in. Any info on that?
Yes, people who already have ROC permits will be able to keep what they currently have,but won't be able to add anything new.

[SnakeEyesExotics]

Can't seem to find it anywhere, but are boa constrictors on the list? If so, that means that nobody can ship boas to Florida either, right?

[Mikey Triangles]

Can't seem to find it anywhere, but are boa constrictors on the list? If so, that means that nobody can ship boas to Florida either, right?

Yeah, I've heard the list has been edited to include all 4 species of Anaconda. Those are the only Boas I heard mentioned though.

On the list as it stands now on the FWC website only Green Anacondas are included.


this is the current list off their site:

Indian or Burmese python (Python molurus)
Reticulated python (Python reticulatus)
African rock python (Python sebae)
Amethystine or Scrub python (Morelia amethistinus)
Green anaconda (Eunectes murinus)
Nile monitor (Varanus niloticus)

[Hybridbird]

That is the complete list as of now. They are meeting in Lake Mary today to remove all 6 from the list of Reptiles of Concern and add them all to the list of Conditional Species.

http://myfwc.com/commission/2010/Comm_10_AgendaJun.htm

Common Boas are not on the list.............................................. .............yet.

However,the way that the new law is written, it gives FWC the authority to add any species to the list that they deem necessary and won't have to pass another bill to do it. Watch and see how quickly the list grows after someone who "knows someone" finds a Boa or Ball in their yard or some other place that they think it shouldn't be, this is only the beginning.

[TIIRX7]

As of 7/1/2010 the Ban on the six species of concern has been passed in Florida. If you currently have a license to possess you will be allowed to keep the animals you have until they die. For those who want to get a retic or a burm after 7/1/2010 there will be no more license's issued, further it will be illigal to import or export them through Florida. If you have a class 3 license you can still breed and sell burms' and retics out of state per info I received this morning from Fl fish and wildlife.

This is all government propaganda to continually control your freedoms in this country. Florida as well as Federal legislators have ignored the sound scientific data that has been presented to them, because their agenda is to compleatly control your right to own a particular pet, and for that matter every aspect of your life as an American citizen. They have affectivly made criminals out of hundred's of thousand law abiding citizens in Florida. The ignorance and stupidity of Government officials knows no bounds. The tyranny of Government will only succeed if we the people stand back and do nothing to stop it.

[demonmyst]

Is there any updates on their findings for this year? My girlfriend and I caught one ourselves in the everglades...but as far as we know we're the only ones to even see one....

Hoping for some answers! Thanks! -bump-

[mechnut450]

Is there any updates on their findings for this year? My girlfriend and I caught one ourselves in the everglades...but as far as we know we're the only ones to even see one....

Hoping for some answers! Thanks! -bump-

shoot I wish I could go into the swamp and find snakes lol
I find more black rats, and water ssnakes in yards than I do went i go herping for fun.

[rcpreis3]

U cant remove the snakes from the swamp with out a collections permit. Also to collect ROCs in Florida u must have a Conditional species permit. Ive been talking to the lady about collecting redeared sliders and rehoming out of state and she said I would need to do quite a bit of paper work and setting up enclosures to specs. I'll look for her number when I have more time.

[annmikeal]

Its sort of ridiculous all the paper work you have to go through, to get rid of the problem...

[BobOblak]

"Its sort of ridiculous all the paper work you have to go through, to get rid of the problem..."

Thats because its not a problem. It's a taxpayer-funded jobs program.

[Outcast]

"Its sort of ridiculous all the paper work you have to go through, to get rid of the problem..."

Thats because its not a problem. It's a taxpayer-funded jobs program.

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner folks.
That is exactly what this is all about.

[jscianni21]

"Its sort of ridiculous all the paper work you have to go through, to get rid of the problem..."

Thats because its not a problem. It's a taxpayer-funded jobs program.


and to think the gov. was supposed to be cutting back spending ....



a friend of mine breeds burms and retics and has had fwc come to his house 3-4 times in the past 2 weeks threatening him with crazy fines . he even has his roc permit and some other papers . but this last time they threatened to take the snakes away is that even legal ?

btw all his snakes have the microchip needed for him to have them also

[Hybridbird]

ROC only allows you to keep your current collection, if you want to breed you must havr a conditional species permit as well as a class 3 permit. Also, if his faculty is not maintained to standards or his caging isn't up to spec they csn confiscate as well.

[jscianni21]

thats the thing he has probly one of the cleanest reptiole rooms everydays he spends like 4-5 hrs cleaning and making sure everything is right and proper
and he also spends time with animals he has by far one of the most tame retics i have ever seen . and from what i have seen and he has told me has all his permits he needs its just this guy is a straight dick who comes from fwc his name is jeff and at one point he called my friend a jackass for wanting to keep snakes like that and said if he had his way would just kill them all in my honest opinion i think that is really wrong to say :shrug01:

we called up the office in our area and they said if we have no proof there is nothing they can do :eek:

[rcpreis3]

ROC only allows you to keep your current collection, if you want to breed you must havr a conditional species permit as well as a class 3 permit. Also, if his faculty is not maintained to standards or his caging isn't up to spec they csn confiscate as well.

The class three permit is strictly for selling reptiles in Florida and has nuthin to do with breeding. Only breeders that have an incorporated business before the July deadline to get an ROC permit (July of 08 or 09, I cant remember) and approved by Jenny Tinnley, can breed and sell ROCs to an out of state buyer. If ur just a hobbyist without an incorporated business and a ROC, u cant breed ur ROCs. So actually the FWC officer is right and can take his ROCS if he see them reproducing, or sees offspring.

[Hybridbird]

You are wrong on so many counts, that I won't even attempt to address them all here. Lets be clear on one thing though, I posses a current conditional species permit an ROC permit and Class 3 permit so I can tell you this much. I would not want to be one caught selling (in FL or out) without all 3.

[Hybridbird]

Also, for the record, ROC permits went into effect 1 July 08 and Conditional Species permits (which is what ROCs are classified as now) went into effect 1 July 2010. Class 3 permits are required to sell ANY wildlife, if YOU live in Florida and you are selling any wildlife even if you sell every single one out of state, you are required to have a Class 3 permit for the specific species you are selling, so in effect, the Class 3 does have something to do with breeding.Unless of course you are going to breed and keep every offspring you are going to produce, or give them all away for free...but I'm sure there's a rule against that as well somewhere, if you look hard enough.

[rcpreis3]

There isnt a rule against breeding and giving them away what so ever and its what ive done with 99% of what ive produced, I sold one normal ball for 20 bucks. I dont have the class three, but spoke with the lady that handles all the nonnative collections permits and such for quite a while on the phone and for quite a while on all these subjects. Im fairly sure that NO ONE that wasnt an established breeder of ROCS, and incorporated as such before they became conditional species, would be allowed to breed them.

Also on another note this would actually be the perfect place to address where I am wrong. Those who say "your wrong but I wont bother addressing it" make no sense. What the point of halfassing it and just saying im wrong?

You cannot collect any nonnative species without first having a permit to collect, and then a permit (ROC/Conditional Species) to keep. I was planning on collecting Wild RES and hybrids and adopting them out of state and this is what I was told. By the lady who decides whether its worth wasting the time to send u paper work in the first place. And the same goes for any other nonnative evasive species collecting.

If someone had 2 pet burms since 06, got their ROCs in 08, and then decided to breed next year (2012) will be subject to fines and possible loss of animals. Thats how it is. You cant breed ROCS/Conditional species in Florida unless special requirements were met by the stated time a few years ago.