13 Inch FEMALE LEOPARD TORTOISE - Egg Layer Size

[Jason Abels]

A few months ago I received this large female leopard tortoise in a trade and have decided to sell her as we do not work with this species in our breeding projects. She is 11 years old and has some pyramiding and shell defects from being fed the wrong diet by her previous owner.

Since in our care, she has been living outside in the South Florida sun eating Opuntia cactus pads, hibiscus flowers and grazing on grasses and weeds all day. She is a great eater and a pretty active tortoise. She would make a great addition to a breeding project as a egg layer regardless of her shell issues. Please contact me if interested or would like more/better pictures of her. If in the Miami area you are more then welcome to come by to check her out in person before the sale (preferred).

I am lowering the price to $900.00 + Shipping/Boxing/Health Certificate for her.

[Jason Abels]

Bump, I will consider reasonable offers on this tortoise.

[Jason Abels]

This female is still available. I have lowered her price to $900. Attached are some more pictures. I measured her with calipers and she is just under 13.5 inches.
Jason

[Jason Abels]

She is still available! $900 plus shipping. She is grazing on grasses and weeds like crazy as well as Opuntia Cactus pads, Hybiscus Flowers & Leaves :-)

Jason

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Please call 602 301 0055

[Jason Abels]

Did not know if it was cool to call so late. If you like, my e-mail is jabels@mindspring.com

Jason

[Texastravis]

I would like to see a posted pic of the tail area/anal scutes

[Jason Abels]

I will take some pics for you tomorrow.


Jason

[Jason Abels]

I found this pic on file. I will take better ones tomorrow still.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_9488.jpg

[Texastravis]

Not trying to ruin your sell but looks like a good chance of being male. Closer up of the tail when you get a chance to take a picture will tell me/us more.

[Jason Abels]

It has the flattest plastron, like board. I will work on better close-up pics and try to get a shot of its tail out :-)

Jason

[Jason Abels]

OK, I just took some new pictures detailing this animals ultra flat plastron and tail section. Like I said above, we do not work with Leopard tortoises, but this looks female to me :-)

It has a short stubby tail and almost laser flat plastron and is 13.5 inches so it is mature enough to show sexually dimorphic differences? Anyhow, that being said, I am attaching better pics for your review. I hope they help.

Jason

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_0512.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_0515.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_0523.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_0521.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/IMG_0525.jpg

[Texastravis]

Yup definitely female. She has some goofy anal scutes though lol

[Jason Abels]

Her "A" scutes look good to me :-)

[Jason Abels]

I am 99.9% going to try to attend the big National Reptile Show at Dayton in August this year. The only thing that will keep me from going is some unforeseen animal reality/emergency here at our facility that I can not predict. If desired, to save money on shipping, I can bring this female to the show for pick-up if you plan on attending also? Just an option.

Jason

[dozerdog01]

You worried about her being unlevel ?

[Jason Abels]

Not one bit :-) I used the level just to show her plastron is ultra flat supporting my opinion that this animal is a female.

Her top shell may have a kink and be pyramided, but she is still pretty low profile so I would guess that even a smaller male would not have a problem mating her. She eats great and cruises her large habitat with no problems. She walks straight with no difficulties.

Jason

[ntrepid]

Sorry but I would have to agree with Texastravis, your tortoise is a male. The tail is long enough and the anal scutes are all together wrong for a female to be able to pass an egg even a small one. If you check you will also find the "vent" is enlongated and not round...,again a male characteristic. As for the flat plastron, I have 2 males that show little to no concavity and they are 12 and 16 pound boys that are real studs ...so you really can't rely on that as a dead giveaway The upper shell appears to have caved as a result of Vitamin deficiency probably when young...the shell gets soft and the bone underneath deforms...it can harden later but the deformity is usually permanent.
But he should do okay as a breeder if he is on a good plane of nutrition ...and there definitly seems to be a general lack of breeding age males around
Good luck

[Jason Abels]

Interesting! Thanks for your feedback.

I really do not know what to think about Him/Her. To me this animal looks totally female. The tip of her tail is really tiny, but I don't work with these here.

I agree with your theory on past nutrition being a cause of its shell deformities. The original owners raised her from a hatchling and fed primarily hay from the pet store. They had ZERO clue of the species specific husbandry requirements of this species.

I have had her for a few months and have corrected her diet and she seems to be jamming now. Anyhow, he/she is what he/she is.

If anyone is interested please base your purchase on your own knowledge and the vast amounts of detailed pictures I have supplied in this thread. It sure looks female to me.

Jason

[Jason Abels]

Ok, I just looked up every photo I could find on the tail structure difference of male & female leopard tortoises. While I agree that this animal's anal scutes are steeply connected, the tail looks identical to every female leopard tortoise tail I could find on the net! It is not even close to the length of a male tail buy a long shot.

The tail on this animal is only a few mm's from the anus compared to a males tail which is 1/2 inch or longer from the opening in an animal of this size. In fact, I highly doubt that if it was a male its tail would be long enough to inseminate any female.

I still hold true to my original judgement that this is 100% female. In addition, I have sent off a e-mail for the opinion of an internationally respected Leopard tortoise keeper and author. I will keep this forum in the loop if I hear back from him.

Jason

[Texastravis]

The tail is why I said that it is a she. Your right about tail size on males, they are quite large because this is where the male organ develops. There is a small chance that this 9" tortoise's male organs have not yet been developed, especially since he was malnutritioned at a younger age. He could have grown so fast while still being to young to develop his penis. 2 of my "probable" females had female tails at 7.8" and 8.2" and both over the course of a couple months developed their penis.

Either way it doesnt matter. Tortoise breeders understand that when buying a non proven female there is always a good chance of being/becoming male or being infertile. Hence the large difference in price between proven and nonproven.

you wont have too much of a problem selling he/she but it is a lot harder selling tortoises that were previously malnutritioned, especially sunk in shells. Not for fear of health problems but rather her so called uglyness.

I have been considering purchasing this tortoise since I do plan on attending the breeder's expo. I have some other tortoises I am working on right now though. I will get back to you eventually.

[Jason Abels]

Grateful for everyones help and point of view. Travis, this animal is 13.5 inches, not 9 inches :-) Either way, he/she seems to be a mystery.

I sent off a few pictures detailing this animals flat plastron, V shaped anal scutes and short stubby tail to a very well known and internationally respected Leopard tortoise expert and author for his analysis. He agrees that this is a confusing case. He said he can not be 100% either way, but based solely on the anal scutes that is a male. That being said, he agrees the tail and plastron features look female. As a result, I am now offering this 13.5 INCH LEOPARD TORTOISE OF UNKNOWN GENDER for $900 to the 1st person that wants her which I think is more then fair.

Jason

[Texastravis]

oops, your engineering scale/ruler through me off. I was thinking she was around 25 cm from pic but wrong type of ruler! hmm 13"....should def have a penis by now!

[Jason Abels]

I totally agree, Travis.

[Jason Abels]

Bump! :-)

[Jason Abels]

Still Available $900

[Jason Abels]

Bump! $900

[Jason Abels]

Still have this, heavy, large probable female Adult Leopard Tortoise avalable for $900. She eats grass like a Sulcata :)

[Jason Abels]

I had this tortoise sold but the bonehead never sent me the money so it is available again to add to your breeding project.