Be careful in what you say...

[orcutti]

I know that this is not the type of post that meets the expected criteria for BOI. But I thought it was so important that it was worth the risk. Please forgive me Rich.

You have to be VERY careful to only state facts as anything beyond that can lead to legal action. I would hate to see anybody here who posted information with good intentions get screwed because they went a tiny bit too far in their BOI post. Please see the link.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/734035.asp

[dwedeking]

“They have a license to defame until they’re shut up by the court,” said Novak. “It’s just not right what these people are doing — they’re going overboard. These are worse than the people who stand in front of these labs where they test primates.”

I don't agree with the people that stand out in front of the labs but that is their given right as americans. I am going to go out on a limb and say that his lawsuit hurt his business more than the money made from the one person that settled. Also the one person that settled was because of his activities with the security of the website not with his posting.

Requirement for lawsuit:  $35.00 filing fee and the ability to tell the clerk your address.

PS Rich you should probably move this to the discussion section.

[HerpVenue]

Tell the truth about your experiences with a company and get sued.
Sounds familiar to me.

The idiots should have hit em up with a counter lawsuit on infringing on the first ammendment rights.

Sounds like a loser who just wanted more. .....suing for  emotional distress .........my @ss........are you a man or are you a weakling little mouse?

Wonder if Joe Puker will claim that one too?

[HerpVenue]

$35 dollar filing fee?

Hey there was this kid in fourth grade who called me four eyes.
It caused me emotional distress anxiety and nausea......can I sue him?

[Ciro Spina]

If you are speaking the truth, you have nothing to worry about.  Apparently, the people who settled were not represented by attorneys and if they were, the attorneys were incompetent.  Truth is a defense to defamation, libel, slander and any other tort that is applicable.  Furthermore, the burden to prove most of the elements is on the plaintiff--in actions of public concern (I would guess that ripping off the public is of public concern) the plaintiff must show falsity of the statement and negligence as to statement's truth or falsity.  

By the way, I should be sworn in soon and I would gladly defend Rich (for free) if anyone ever sues him for defamation.  Unfortunately, people collapse when threatened with a law suit, which is why people constantly threaten others they'll sue. Don't sing it, bring it.  

Well, petwarehouse.com (uh oh, I said your name, I should be getting served soon) you did more damage to yourself than they ever could have.  You should have worked it out with them instead of jumping to court.  

Ciro Spina

[dwedeking]

Ritchie,

Yes you can. And out here in California you'd probalby win <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

[Donnie Smith]

Reading only the news story, it looks like the only thing the owner of Petwarehouse.com wants his company name used for is positive advertising. &nbsp;I have no information wether or not petwarehouse.com is a good company or a bad one, but I feel that I will personally not do any business with petwarehouse.com because of his practice of suing anyone that says his company name. &nbsp;I am not advising anyone else away from doing business with petwarehouse.com but i am stating the oppinion that i will not do business with them...

Let the litigation begin.
-Morti.

[orcutti]

Ditto on what donnie said. I actually emailed them to tell them as much.

[AZTEC FRED]

My two cents, for what they are worth:

Perhaps if the owner of the business doesnt want bad P.R. associated with his name, he would IMPROVE the quality of the service and goods and therefore attract more customers who have something POSITIVe to say about his business.
Woopss...wait a second...your not supposed to even talk about his business right? So a gag order is in aafect.
No...you can talk about the good, but not &nbsp;the bad, that would be &nbsp;defameing him?

Or would it?

It always amazes me how people screw other people over, and then switch the focus of the INITIAL WRONGDOING &nbsp;off of them and on the very same people that they just mishandled.Houdini didnt have magic tricks this slick.
The 3rd post in this thread(I beleive it was Richie Luna, said that You "Tell the truth about a company and you get sued"

I think there is SO much truth to that statement.
And I think it is pathetic that the owner of this company was given ANYTHING for the supposed defemation of his "stellar business"

This reminds me of the arguement of academic standards and students in years past.
Are we supposed to LOWER the bar(standards) for the proprietor of that business , so that he can continue to apear to be a good source of quality merchandise and services
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;or
Is he, the proprietor of PetWarehouse.com supposed to rise to the occasion, defend himslef by increasing both the quality of his merchandise and the standard of his service to his customers?

I personally beleive that the first one is a cop out and other businesses see that as a definite weakness.The second is the only viable choice.Rise to meet the epectations and needs of the buying consumer and make them WANT to come back instead of posting negative things on the internet.

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I guess I put in 10cents not 2,


&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Fred (Aztec Reptiles)

[Linda Demadura]

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but you guys are a bit confused on who sued. It wasn't petwarehouse.com it was petswarehouse.com. Notice the "s" after pet in the article. I actually like buying from petwarehouse.com. I've never done business with the other guy. I just thought I mention it. Now I have to go so I don't get sued. LOL.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Linda <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[HallsHerps]

Fred ... heres your .08 &nbsp;you are only allowed .02 per post ... <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[HerpVenue]

can I have Fred's 0.08 in change since he mentioned my name?

he he sorry just got off work...real tired and not too funny

[Donnie Smith]

I would like to thank Linda for the correction. &nbsp;Please consider everything I said about "petwarehouse.com" To actually mean "Petswarehouse.com" &nbsp;Otherwise, I really am being slanderous. ;-)

[Classic Dum's]

well this isnt a country of laws anymore its a country of lawyers................ <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> sad but true

[franklinedwards60]

I lust thought I would share this with all of you. It is on the same subject matter. This person sold his animals and still thinks he should sue someone for saying something about him.
LOL kids these days.


k2skaterguy Posted on April 05 2002,17:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i had no intention of coming back to read any reply since i stated earlier that i was not returning to read replys to this post.

But i'm glad i came back to check (just in case), i knew there would be at least one person that didn't know how to read.

well Thomas Davis of T & S Reptile Farm... . i did not say wholesaling is bad. &nbsp;you misread what i typed. &nbsp;I am against reptile dealers that wholesale AND sell sick imports on purpose... and how that gives the reptile hobby a bad name. &nbsp;I am promoting good honest reptile dealing. &nbsp;that's all. &nbsp;if you disaree with my promotion of honest reptile dealing then please present your rebuttel.

i don't respect your insults towards me and my reptiles, my snakes and geckos are all captive pure bred. &nbsp;My herps are pamperd to the uttermost. &nbsp;i treat them as if their humans.

i am not going to play on your level by insulting back.

My brother is a 2nd year law student at Georgetown University, i'm going to forward your earlier post where you defamed my name and my product quality to see if i can compensate for any damages you may have embedded on my name. &nbsp;You are about to learn an expensive lesson. &nbsp;

http://www.msnbc.com/news/734035.asp

justin &nbsp;


thomas davis Posted on April 05 2002,01:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey justin,what about your comment on importors&wholesellers,uhhhhh i believe you ranted about the care of the animals, and how basically selling them at all in a wholesale fashion was wrong &nbsp;,maybe im wrong here but your saying now how you have to MOVE THESE 10 CALI KINGS ONLY 10$A PIECE &nbsp; because of room ? what about the ''care'',,,LIKE I SAY MAYBE ITS ME BUT IT SEEMS RATHER HYPOCRITICAL ,,,,,,yeah and i bet they are also f5000+gen. never been wild &nbsp;haha created in captivity hahahahahahhaaa, some people,,,,,thomas davis T&Sreptile farm &nbsp;
k2skaterguy Posted on April 05 2002,00<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have 18 california kingsnakes. &nbsp;i'm not going to have enough room to keep all the babies.

i need another reptile rack so i'm generating some revenue to purchase a rack. &nbsp;I'm moving these baby snakes to make room for hatchling leopards expected to hatch within a month.

i am only selling 10 c.b. california kingsnakes. all are about 11 inches long. &nbsp;ALL eating frozen pinkies. &nbsp;

i'm asking $100 ( that's $10 a kingsnake !. &nbsp;Shipping is $25 overnight. &nbsp;I don't have pics but all are normal desert phases except for one which has one stripe all the way down. &nbsp;All are from the same parents.

inquire fast !! &nbsp;email me DON"T REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS POST !!! i don't check for replys.

finalfantasyjc@hotmail.com &nbsp;

thanks,

justin

[AZTEC FRED]

Linda,

Thanks for the head up on the name. I gather I was incorrect, it was Petswharehouse.com. My mistake.

Thank you for enlightening us,I was in error about that 1 fact.

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fred

[dwedeking]

"the buyer that agreed to buy backed out due to a post by Thomas Davis of T & S Reptile Farm when Thomas defamed my integrity. &nbsp;"

Business Suicide.

How you conduct yourself in open forums like this will affect your business. Make it look like your a hard person to deal with and your business suffers. For every 1 person that is posting here there are 50 eyes watching how people interact. Those 50 eyes are attached to 25 wallets.

[EMERALDGUY33]

A sad state of affairs, guys. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

It kind of makes me wonder about these folks who go that far. Bringing litigation at the drop of a hat. What ever happened to "Sticks and stones...."? After 9-11 there was an explosion of patriotism. Everybody was "Proud to be an American". Standing up for freedom and our rights. Were these same sue happy individuals standing right up alongside the rest of us? If so, is that blatant hypocrisy? They say they are willing to fight for their freedoms and rights. Yet, they bring litigation against anyone who dares to exercise their right to free speech. Is this convenient patriotism? They want to sue in the belief that their rights have been violated. Yet give no thought to the rights of their critics that they violate by suing to silence them. IMO, that is blatant hypocrisy, censorship, and double standardism. I will bet good money that if they felt wronged in a deal, they would be posting negative feedback left and right. They would have no hesitation about slamming the supposed bad dealer. I would even bet that they would not see it as defaming, slanderous, or libelous. Because they were the victim. And they obviously have no hesitation suing for money. Money that the other party worked hard to get. Definitely a sad state of affairs. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

[HerpVenue]

Well Joe P. &nbsp; he looked like a foreigner.....so he probably does not care about your rights.

As for that k2 skaterguy justin.
he signed his post US marines...then completed it with his company information......as if knowing he is in the marines would scare everyone off. &nbsp;He still has a lot of growing up to do.

He has sworn to defend the contsitution against all enemies foreing and domestic. &nbsp;But when someone calles him a name and hurts his wittle itty bitty feelings he infringes on their first ammendment rights by threatening a litigation.....how pitiful

How does that make the marines look? &nbsp; Makes them look like cry babies................Code Red anyone? &nbsp;Blanket party would be even better? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Just so you all know.....he is not a good representation of the marines. &nbsp;I knew a couple of marines. &nbsp;They were squared away gentlemen. &nbsp;I would follow them into battle anyday........all them except this guy....(he might cry)

[Sean Belanger]

"What it all proves, says Miller, Resler’s attorney: “It’s a fundamental feature of our judicial system that anyone can sue anyone for anything.""

How true is that statement! Just thought I would post this as a very interesting example. Got this in my email from a friend recently.

Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Only in the USA

A Charlotte, NC lawyer purchased a box of very rare and expensive cigars, and then insured them against fire among other things. Within a month having smoked his entire stockpile of these great cigars and without yet having made even his first premium payment on the policy, the lawyer filed
a claim against the insurance company. In his claim, the lawyer stated the cigars were lost "in a series of small fires." The insurance company refused to pay citing the obvious
reason: that the man had consumed the cigars in the normal fashion. The lawyer sued.....and won! In delivering the ruling the judge agreed with the insurance company that the claim was frivolous. The judge stated, nevertheless, that the lawyer held a policy from the company in which it had warranted that the cigars were insurable and also guaranteed that it would insure them against fire, without defining what is considered to be "unacceptable fire," and was obligated to pay the claim. Rather than endure a lengthy and costly appeal process, the insurance company accepted the ruling and paid $15,000 to the lawyer for his loss of the rare cigars
lost in the "fires."

NOW FOR THE BEST PART..... After the lawyer cashed the check, the insurance company had him arrested on 24 counts of ARSON!!!! With his own insurance claim and testimony from the previous case being used against him, the lawyer was convicted of &nbsp;intentionally burning his &nbsp;insured property and he was sentenced to 24 months in jail and ordered to pay a $24,000 fine. This is a true story and was the first place winner in the recent Criminal Lawyers Awards.

[Neil Gubitz]

That's a PERFECT example of why Lawyers are like Sperm!! Only ONE out of a MILLION have the POSSIBILITY of becoming a HUMAN BEING!! ....Neil

[John Apple]

Freedom of speach.....yeah right!!!!
It gets pretty foolish when we can't exercise our ammended
rights
Then you got people like the owners of the store meantioned
suing when someone posts about them[defamation of character??...no just the facts as he saw them] so they get scared and don't fight it or fight it hard enough when the big bad store comes down on them, what a bunch of cr@p!!
If we don't start fighting back we all lose out, plain and simple!!
Sue me , I love a fight, monetarily or physical
Yes these are my opinions I stand by them and defend them.
I didn't spend time in the Army for this country to have some
@ss infringe on our rights
try prying that from my cold dead fingers

[EMERALDGUY33]

Paper freedoms, John Apple. Only as good as the paper they're printed on.

[SERPENTS DEN]

Unbelievable that Novak couldn't try and resolve this in a more suitable manner than sue those poor people. A copy of this should be sent to www.petwarehouse.com cause I would think this is really going to hurt business for them once people ban doing business with Novak, he practically taken there name and added an s to pet, is that right? What do you all think???

Best wishes,
Steve Markevich

Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122

URL www.serpentsden.com

e-mail reptiles@serpentsden.com

[John Apple]

can't argue there Steve
I am sure something like this will hurt their business , but.....
I said but... only to the extent of the people that read this forum and those directly involved
In the grand sceme of things do you really think this will hurt them all that bad <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>? &nbsp;probably not to a great deal.
as far as paper freedoms , we all believe in the American way
It doesn't matter what they are printed on. Granted , some might want to distort that to fit a use of their own, I still say fight for what you believe in and NEVER GIVE UP
One good thing about this is petwarehouse will lose the majority of the business from people who read this thread

[Neil Gubitz]

OK, Folks....Check THIS out!! Talk about RIGHT ON POINT!! I was Emailed this today...I think it's PERFECT for this thread...ENJOY!


(START OF EMAIL)

I was e-mailed this awhile back. Whenever I read it my blood boils. Had I read all this as a child I probably would have strived to be a judge. I find these rulings to be offensive to the laws of common decency, common sense and..........I'm starting to get excited. Enjoy
Stella Awards
Ever since a jury ordered McDonald's to pay more than $2m damages to 81-year-old Stella Liebeeck after she spilt coffee and scalded herself, the annual "Stella" award has been granted to the person who successfully brings the most ridiculous lawsuit in the US. There are plenty to choose from for
2001.


Carl Truman, of Los Angeles, won $74,000 and medical expenses from a neighbor who drove his car over Truman's hand. Truman was lying on the ground, out of sight, stealing the hubcaps.


Burglar Terrence Dickson, from Pennsylvania, lived for eight days on Pepsi and dry dog biscuits after a faulty electric door trapped him in the garage of the home he had just robbed. The homeowner was ordered to pay $500,000 for Dickson's mental anguish.

Jerry Williams, of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500 after being bitten by a beagle chained in its owner's yard. Williams had climbed into the yard and was shooting the beagle with a pellet gun.


A Philadelphia restaurant had to pay $113,500 to Amber Carson after she injured herself by slipping on a can she had thrown on the floor during an argument with her boyfriend.


Kara Walton, of Delaware, won $12,000 and dental expenses from a nightclub spam_ after falling from a bathroom window. The accident happened as she was
trying to climb through the window to avoid paying the $3.50 entrance fee.


And everyone's favorite.........
Democratic Pennsylvania state Rep. Jane Baker, 56, said she will run for a second term next year even though she told a jury recently that injuries from a traffic accident had left her largely cognitively disabled. Baker, who lives near Allentown, said she needs help with reading and understanding material and carrying on conversations due to head injuries and told the jury that in fact she is virtually unemployable except for her position in the Legislature. The jury awarded her $2.9 million in November."

(END OF EMAIL)

Was that not perfect, or what?? Can you BELIEVE some people?? I never cease to be amazed!

[HallsHerps]

NEIL ........ you forgot the McDonalds lady and the hot coffee one ... lmao ...
and to add one more "stupid burgular" add a few yrs back a guy had broke into a house here where i live &nbsp;when he did this he cut his wrist &nbsp;as thats what he used to break the window , however he did get away with the breakin and stole several unreplaceable family heirlooms.( which he sold ) he then waited till the story came out in the news , then sued the homeowner for cutting his wrist on there window he broke out w/ his hand &nbsp;this was proved by a blood testto match the blood found at the scene. he won a "undisclosed " amount of $$$ &nbsp;so tell me &nbsp;justice is fair .. i think not

[EMERALDGUY33]

Don't get me wrong, John Apple. I'm proud to be an American and I will fight and die for my rights. I just constantly wonder as to the validity of said rights. When I constantly hear of those same rights been laid by the wayside at a whim. Don't you?

[John Apple]

Yes I agree , I wonder that same fact too, but I hold the belief that there is some honest justice left in the world we now live in
Kind of makes you wonder....what kind of world these people are setting a president for.
well I hope we all are fighters on this board and continue to help out the little guy
take care

[Steve Barry]

All right Neil you sucked me in. You forgot to put in the part about the Yellow Pages. I e-mailed a friend in the Phoenix area last year and the percentages worked out about the same, About three times as many pages of lawyers than dentists.

I wonder if those were jury awards or awards by judges. I also wonder if insurance companies are paying these awards or the homeowners themselves. I would think that if insurers had to pay these ridiculous settlements they would also have death squads. No way in hell would I pay a thief money for breaking into my home. I've spent too many years staying out of trouble and trying to put some money aside to have it taken by some thief, or by some sympathetic jury that doesn't believe in personal accountability. Maybe we need to put up warnings. To all prospective thieves. Just mopped kitchen WATCH YOUR STEP. LEFT THE BACK DOOR OPEN, NO NEED TO BREAK GLASS. THERE'S FRESH ROAST BEEF ALREADY SLICED NO NEED TO CUT YOURSELF. spam_I think not. I'll do time before I give any scumbag my hard earned money.

A number of years ago Dan Lurie was forced to go out of business. I still have the Dan Lurie weight set my dad bought for me when I was a kid. They had been in business for over thirty years I believe. They were sued by someone who bought a treadmill and injured themselves while using it. spam_I don't remember if they sued the manufacturer also. His insurance did not cover the settlement and they were forced to liquidate. Another retailer or manufacture who was featured on this show stated that fully two thirds of the cost of a volleyball set up they sold went to insurance. Now don't quote me on the two thirds but it was an outrageous figure.

Alan, Stella was mentioned at the beginning of the e-mail. She is the Macdonalds lady. If you have nothing better to do check out the local Yellow Pages for lawyers and dentists. By the page in Queens NY it broke dow to 4.5% lawyers and 1.5% dentist. It's kind of sad when you think about it. We all start out with teeth.

Enough of this I'm getting aggitated again and I could write about this for hours. Couldn't leave well enough alone, huh Neil?

Steve Barry

[Ciro Spina]

You are all slamming lawyers, but it isn't lawyers that find guilt or award damages. &nbsp;It is usually the jury (sometimes a judge). &nbsp;It was a jury that &quot;started&quot; the Stella award, that set the precedent by finding for her. &nbsp;The lawyer was just doing his job. &nbsp;To sit here and blame lawyers for the stupidy of jurors is pretty lame.

Peace

Ciro &nbsp;Spina (soon to be Esquire)

[Steve Barry]

I don't pretend to know the law but I have managed to stay out of trouble for close to fifty years. I know that every person is entitled to a legal defense and every person has the right to sue. As a defendant your prior arrests cannot be brought into play, but as a witness or as a good samaritan your character can be attacked to no end.

Many of the disputes that are brought to the board seem to have no clear cut answer. The seller sees the glass as half full, the buyer sees it as half empty. Many times public opinion is enough to resolve the dispute without having to go to court and find out what the LAW actually says about the matter.

When it comes to Stella and her band of renowns it becomes painfully obvious of the need for tort reforms in this country. As I stated before people need to take accountability for there own actions and stupidity. While everyone is entitled to a legal defense, are they entitled to legal representation when bringing suit? I always believed everyone has their price, a dollar and cents figure where they will take a chance and cross over to the dark side.It appears lawyers don't and will represent practically anyone for any reason. Personally I own nothing of great value. If someone were to break into my apartment they'd probably have a good laugh. I never considered insurance. If someone got hurt in my apartment in the act of commiting a crime and brought suit against me I would flip out. I've worked too hard for too little, I've sacrificed for today so I may have for tomorrow. Any lawyer that would take a case like this has got to be a lowlife. Any lawyer who would file suit on the behalf of someone injured while commiting a crime I consider a lowlife.

Now maybe there's a law on the books somewhere that says people are entitled to compensation for injuries sustained while in the act of commiting a crime. If that is the case a one dollar award would suffice, case closed.

Ciro, as a future lawyer you have the power to change peoples perception of lawyers. A jury is supposed to be a cross section of society, employed, unemployed, educated, uneducated, businessmen,employees, white collar, blue collar and on and on. Lawyers are held to a higher standard and in cases such as the Stella cases are seen to be manipulative, coniving and with absolutely no morals or code of ethics. It's just the bottom line that counts. Late for work, gotta run

Steve Barry