Pennsylvania state law issues

[cka]

They govern the rules and regulations concerning herps in PA...Well, it's a start....click on Q and A to jump to a page with a reptiles and amphibians link PA Fish and Boat Commission (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/)

[Adamanteus]

I often attend a small bimonthly show as a vendor in PA . I am now being told by the show directors that every vendor needs a license to sell any exotics in the state. And bills of health on all animals. All the info I have so far is the license fee is 50 annually. I plan on calling PA game commission Monday morning. just wondering if anyone else has heard anything like this ?

Thanks

[Adamanteus]

State Homepage - http://www.state.pa.us/

State Legislature - http://www.legis.state.pa.us/

State Statutes/Code - http://www.pacode.com/

[Traci1]

I have never been a vendor before, but I found the below info located at
http://sites.state.pa.us/Fish/faqampr.htm


I want to sell reptiles and amphibians. Do I need permit from the Fish and Boat Commission?

There are no permits issued by the Fish and Boat Commission for selling reptiles and amphibians. Our regulations require that with the exception of common snapping turtles, no reptile or amphibian may be taken from the wild in PA for sale, trade or barter. Also, it unlawful to possess, import or export species listed as endangered or threatened by the Fish and Boat Commission. For species not taken from the wild but which may occur in PA, a dealer or purchaser would need to obtain and maintain the proper documentation to show that the origin of an animal was from a legal source and not taken from the wild.

AND

I would like to purchase/sell/possess a venomous exotic snake. Do I need a permit to possess such an animal?

PA Fish and Boat Commission regulations only pertain to native species of PA. In other words our regulations do not cover any species not found in PA. Therefore, you would not need a permit from our agency. However, you may want to contact you local municipal government to see if they have any ordinances in effect that regulate the possession of “dangerous animals” or exotic pets. Due to some recent high-profile cases in the news of non-native snake bites and snakes getting loose in neighborhoods additional municipalities are adding such laws.

[Adamanteus]

The license needed to transport or sell any exotic captive animals in PA, is a Domestic animals dealers and haulers license(there definition of "Domestic" is ANY captive animal) it is a annual fee of 50 dollars . If you produce your own animals and can prove such, you are exempt this only applys to dealers and brokers buying and selling. Also PA requires a Vet. bill of health inspection for each animal entering the state. If anyone has any questions they can contact the USDA licenseing office at (717)-783-9550 dont forget that all native animals require a license and paperwork also.

[Adamanteus]

here is a link to the application http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/animalhealth/lib/animalhealth/aai-38.pdf

[Adamanteus]

go here and clik on, Act 100 of 1996 -- The Domestic Animal Act
to download the laws that apply.

http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/animalhealth/lib/animalhealth/act_100_of_1996_-_domestic_animal_law.doc

I wonder how many other states have similar laws?
I'm told ohio does but i havent found it in print yet.

[cka]

this is a copy of the email from a PFBC biologist in regards to the keeping and breeding of non native species also found in PA

July 28, 2003

Dear Chris:

Your question was forwarded to me; I am a biologist in the Natural
Diversity Section of the Fish and Boat Commission and we deal with
questions
and issues pertaining to reptiles and amphibians. I will briefly
summarize
the regulations for your interest of breeding or selling reptiles and
amphibians.

There are no permits issued by the Fish and Boat Commission for
breeding or selling reptiles and amphibians. Our regulations require that
with the exception of common snapping turtles, no reptile or amphibian may
be taken from the wild in Pennsylvania for sale, trade, or barter. Also,
it
is unlawful to possess, import, or export species listed as endangered or
threatened by the Fish and Boat Commission. The limit of two individuals
applies only to snakes that are captured from the wild in Pennsylvania.
For
species not taken from the wild but which may occur in PA, a dealer or
purchaser would need to obtain and maintain the proper documentation to
show
that the origin of an animal was from a legal source and not taken from
the
wild. A bill of sale or receipt would be an example of the proper
documentation. Another suggestion for documentation would be to keep a
thorough record of your breeding of these snakes: photographs, and a
journal
of the number of young hatched and what you do with them.

Sincerely,

Katharine L. Derge
Herpetologist/Assistant Nongame Biologist
Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission
Division of Environmental Services
Natural Diversity Section
450 Robinson Lane
Bellefonte, PA 16823

Amanteus...I have this persons email if you'd like to send some of your questions to them...email me angnchris@earthlink.net if interested...peace, Chris

[Adamanteus]

Thank you Chris, Im aware of the laws pertaining to native herps .I'm also aware that Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission does NOT regulate the possession,breeding and sale of NON native herps. Just to make it clear the laws I was referring to are administered and enforced by the Pennsylvania Bureau of Animal Health & Diagnostic Services http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/animalhealth/site/default.asp

[johnmp]

Anyone have any info on the requirement for health certificates for individual animals being brought into PA.? Does each animal have to have a health certificate or can we "batch certify them?

Thanks,
John Phillips

[tdeppen]

can you tell me the laws on keeping herps in pennsylvania. i have family who live there, and i am going up there this summer to hunt for snakes (just catching and takeing pics). if you could let me know if there any laws on catching them please let me know.
thanks,thaddaus deppen

[Bayou Beasts]

I was born and raised in Pa and I can tell you as an avid herper myself, That if you are catching to photograph and release you shouldn't have any problems. just don't get caught with any Timbers without a permit. Most of the speicies there is a daily creel limit of 2 so don't get caught with more than that on your person. Also some herps have seasons (mainly amphibians) you can pick up a fishing handbook at any walmart for free. The fishing rules and regs have all the laws on herps spelled out for you.

Hope this helps if you have any other questions please feel free to e-mail me.

TB

[thegeckoteam]

Hi-

I just wanted to know if anyone else in Pennsylvania (I'm in Allentown) that breeds and sells anything had to get a zoning permit and a business license? I live in a residential neighborhood and the city almost didn't even let me do this until I explained most of my business was going to be conducted off my property, not on. I still had to shell out $25 for the zoning permit and $35 for the business license.

[ShannanD25]

Laura,
I live in York. Let me know what you find out as I was not aware I needed any special zoning...maybe I need to check into things more. Or maybe this is one of those things that if you don't tell them they'll never know?

I am applying for a business license though to register my business name and such.

Has any one else had to apply for a zoning permit? Regardless of state?

[thegeckoteam]

Hi Shannon-

Wow, we're close together. If your ever in Allentown, let me know. I do need a permit to operate my business from my home and also the business license. When I called about the business license they told me to call the zoning office. Maybe a lot of people just don't tell anyone, but if you get caught who knows what fines are involved. I would rather be up front and honest.

[HellFire]

The following was forwarded to me by Fred Bruckman and needs to be taken very seriously.

We need everyone’s help!

The PA Fish and Boat Commission will be presented with a proposed
rulemaking at their meeting on Tues April 26^th . The meeting starts at
8AM at the Pa Fish and Boat headquarters building in Harrisburg. It will
be held in the Susquehanna Room. Please try to attend.

This proposal will:

-Ban the importation and sale of every color morph and every subspecies
of native PA species! There is no question about the inclusion of
subspecies in the prohibition.

No Lampropeltis getula - Eastern, California, & Florida kings, etc.
No Lampropeltis triangulum - Eastern, Sinaloan, & Honduran milksnakes, etc.
No Elaphe obsoleta (Pantherophis alleganiensis) - black, yellow, &
everglades ratsnakes, etc.
No Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern, redsided, redspotted, flame, &
melanistic garter snakes, etc.
No Terrapene carolina - eastern, Gulf, three-toed, or Florida, etc.
No common snappers - Chelydra serpentina
No painted turtles - Chrysemys picta
No Apalone spinifera - Eastern spiny softshell turtle and other
species/subspecies etc. etc.

They set a limit of one per species, but they don't make provisions for
what will happen to the snakes that are "over limit" - confiscated,
euthanized - don't know! Or what will happen to the owner, for that
matter - fines?

-Make you guilty of a crime until you prove your innocence if you carry
tongs or a hook in the woods outside the six weeks of rattlesnake
season. Ridiculous.

-Lower the native reptile possession limit from 2 to 1 with NO
scientific support for this action.

-Require a $50 /year permit to capture a Northern Copperhead though they
admit there is no scientific evidence that collecting is affecting the
population. This proposal appears to me to be prompted by the desire to
prevent us from carrying hooks and tongs in the woods outside of the
rattlesnake season. I am in favor of the other conservation measures for
timbers, but think law enforcement ought to be able to catch illegal
hunters with snakes in the bag not assume that I am guilty of hunting
timbers because I’m carrying a snakehook or tongs for use in positioning
non-venomous snakes for photographs.

-There is more some very GOOD, some very bad.
If we as citizens let this kind of regulation take effect eventually it
will result in these folks making a regs that ban the keeping of
reptiles completely because that's the way they THINK it should be. We
must insist on scientific accountability or we are surrendering!

If you think this proposal is ok because it doesn’t affect what you do,
think again! It is a huge step in the direction of a total ban. If
allowed to stand it will empower government agencies and step by step
they will impose their beliefs on us without the necessity of backing
them up with scientific evidence.

With the exception of the timber rattlesnake changes, there is no
science behind any of this.

Captive breeding protects wild populations by fulfilling demand for
desirable species. Do you really think that there are still folks out
commercially collecting corn snakes or pine snakes, or cal kings? Of
course not. It is more profitable to call a large breeder and buy them
wholesale for resale than it is to collect them.

An analysis of the reptile market through the internet, shows that the
VAST majority (90+ %) of domestic reptiles for sale in the US are
CAPTIVE produced. Pa Fish and Boat does not refute this FACT. The choose
to ignore it.

This whole thing is based on a tradition in conservation agencies of
preventing commercialization. It originated early in the century when
bird feathers were in great demand for ladies hats. Feathers don't
reproduce in captivity. Reptiles do. It is apples and oranges.

For the text of the proposed reg, go to http://www.fish.state.pa.us/
then click on the Agendas/Minutes menu on the left, then below "April
25-26" click on agenda. It's a .pdf file.

PLEASE CALL:
(email if you can)

PA. Fish and Boat Executive Director Douglas Austin 717-705-7801
Go here to email -
https://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?a=1093&q=438119

PA. Senate Game and Fisheries Com. Chair. Joe Conti 717-787-7305
email - jconti@pasenate.gov

PA. House Game and Fisheries Com. Chair Bruce Smith 717-783-8783
As far as I can tell Rep. Smith has no email.

If you are a PA resident please call your own state senator and
representative. You can find who they are at:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/find.cfm

There's a new yahoo group - PA Animal Law (PAL) - please consider
joining for updates as we get them in, posts may be a bit sparse at
first, but it's still early in the game.......

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PAAnimalLaw/

Thanks to all in advance for your help!!!

Fred Bruckman

[pasam]

This may sound stupid but what ended up happening here.

[dirty_harry]

last i heard, this was tabled.

[Gloryhound]

This thread is pretty old, but I have found information regarding the breeding of non native exotics in PA. You have to pay for a permit for each type you will be breeding. It is $150.00 per species. You have to go through the department of agriculture to find out about it.

[bsharrah]

New laws were passed and took effect on January 1, 2007. It is now illegal to remove native species from the wild or import native species from outside PA. You can not possess, trade, barter, or sell them. The changes do not include morphs. Those in possession of native species in accordance with the laws prior to January 1, 2007, had the opportunity to purchase a permit to maintain that animal. These permits are no longer being issued and can not be transferred to other animals.

You must have a permit to breed and sell reptiles, and their is a separate permit if you sell reptiles you did not produce; however, if you purchase one permit, the other is free and they are good for 5 years. I am attaching a link to the laws.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter79/chap79toc.html

Bart

[bsharrah]

Also, it is not $150 per species. You need to indicate what species you work with when you apply but there is no limit and you can call them anytime to add/delete species as your projects change.

Mary Bates is the point of contact at the Dept. of Agriculture. Here is a link to an older thread that discussed this subject. Her contact information is there as well as links to the permit applications.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101548

Bart

[Gloryhound]

Thanks for correcting the number of Species. We only mess with ball pythons so the permit was only for one species.

[Killer Beez]

Wake Up PA peeps.



PRINTER'S NO. 3155






THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA





HOUSE BILL


No.
2233
Session of

2012









INTRODUCED BY HALUSKA, BRENNAN, CARROLL, CONKLIN, DALEY, DENLINGER, EVERETT, GOODMAN, PASHINSKI, SONNEY, STERN AND TAYLOR, FEBRUARY 29, 2012








REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON GAME AND FISHERIES, FEBRUARY 29, 2012











AN ACT




1
Amending Title 30 (Fish) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated

2
Statutes, providing for nonindigenous and exotic reptile and

3
amphibian possession permits.

4
The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

5
hereby enacts as follows:

6
Section 1. Title 30 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated

7
Statutes is amended by adding a section to read:

8
§ 2904.1. Nonindigenous and exotic reptile and amphibian

9
possession permits.

10
(a) Authorization.--The commission may issue a permit to a

11
person to possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

12
amphibian, upon application, which shall authorize the holder to

13
purchase, receive or possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile

14
or amphibian from any lawful source from within or without this

15
Commonwealth.

16
(b) Fees.--The annual fees for permits provided for under

17
subsection (a) are as follows:

18
(1) Nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian dealer,






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1
$200.

2
(2) Nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian

3
possession, $25.

4
(c) Shelter, care and protection.--No permit provided for in

5
this section shall be granted until the commission is satisfied

6
that the provisions for housing and caring for the nonindigenous

7
or exotic reptile or amphibian and for protecting the public are

8
proper and adequate and in accordance with the standards

9
established by the commission.

10
(d) Unlawful acts.--It is unlawful for any person to:

11
(1) Possess, purchase or receive a nonindigenous or

12
exotic reptile or amphibian, without first securing a permit

13
to possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian

14
issued under this section or regulations pertaining to this

15
section.

16
(2) Release a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

17
amphibian into the wild.

18
(3) Fail to exercise due care in safeguarding the public

19
from attack by a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

20
amphibian.

21
(4) Recklessly engage in conduct which places or may

22
place another person in danger of attack by a nonindigenous

23
or exotic reptile or amphibian.

24
(e) Discretion of executive director.--In addition to the

25
penalties provided, the executive director may, for any

26
violation of this section, revoke or suspend any permit and

27
order the disposal of any nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

28
amphibian held.

29
(f) Applicability.--This section applies to nonindigenous or

30
exotic reptiles and amphibians not prohibited under section 2507

20120HB2233PN3155
- 2 -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1
(relating to sale of certain fish, reptiles and amphibians

2
prohibited).

3
Section 2. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission shall

4
institute a program of 30 days' duration whereby Commonwealth

5
residents are provided the opportunity to relinquish unwanted

6
reptiles and amphibians at regional offices of the commission

7
prior to the effective date of 30 Pa.C.S. § 2904.1.

8
Section 3. This act shall take effect as follows:

9
(1) The addition of 30 Pa.C.S. § 2904.1 shall take

10
effect January 1, 2013.

11
(2) The remainder of this act shall take effect

12
immediately.

20120HB2233PN3155
- 3 -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Wake Up PA peeps.



PRINTER'S NO. 3155






THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA





HOUSE BILL


No.
2233
Session of

2012









INTRODUCED BY HALUSKA, BRENNAN, CARROLL, CONKLIN, DALEY, DENLINGER, EVERETT, GOODMAN, PASHINSKI, SONNEY, STERN AND TAYLOR, FEBRUARY 29, 2012








REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON GAME AND FISHERIES, FEBRUARY 29, 2012











AN ACT




1
Amending Title 30 (Fish) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated

2
Statutes, providing for nonindigenous and exotic reptile and

3
amphibian possession permits.

4
The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

5
hereby enacts as follows:

6
Section 1. Title 30 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated

7
Statutes is amended by adding a section to read:

8
§ 2904.1. Nonindigenous and exotic reptile and amphibian

9
possession permits.

10
(a) Authorization.--The commission may issue a permit to a

11
person to possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

12
amphibian, upon application, which shall authorize the holder to

13
purchase, receive or possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile

14
or amphibian from any lawful source from within or without this

15
Commonwealth.

16
(b) Fees.--The annual fees for permits provided for under

17
subsection (a) are as follows:

18
(1) Nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian dealer,






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1
$200.

2
(2) Nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian

3
possession, $25.

4
(c) Shelter, care and protection.--No permit provided for in

5
this section shall be granted until the commission is satisfied

6
that the provisions for housing and caring for the nonindigenous

7
or exotic reptile or amphibian and for protecting the public are

8
proper and adequate and in accordance with the standards

9
established by the commission.

10
(d) Unlawful acts.--It is unlawful for any person to:

11
(1) Possess, purchase or receive a nonindigenous or

12
exotic reptile or amphibian, without first securing a permit

13
to possess a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian

14
issued under this section or regulations pertaining to this

15
section.

16
(2) Release a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

17
amphibian into the wild.

18
(3) Fail to exercise due care in safeguarding the public

19
from attack by a nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

20
amphibian.

21
(4) Recklessly engage in conduct which places or may

22
place another person in danger of attack by a nonindigenous

23
or exotic reptile or amphibian.

24
(e) Discretion of executive director.--In addition to the

25
penalties provided, the executive director may, for any

26
violation of this section, revoke or suspend any permit and

27
order the disposal of any nonindigenous or exotic reptile or

28
amphibian held.

29
(f) Applicability.--This section applies to nonindigenous or

30
exotic reptiles and amphibians not prohibited under section 2507

20120HB2233PN3155
- 2 -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1
(relating to sale of certain fish, reptiles and amphibians

2
prohibited).

3
Section 2. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission shall

4
institute a program of 30 days' duration whereby Commonwealth

5
residents are provided the opportunity to relinquish unwanted

6
reptiles and amphibians at regional offices of the commission

7
prior to the effective date of 30 Pa.C.S. § 2904.1.

8
Section 3. This act shall take effect as follows:

9
(1) The addition of 30 Pa.C.S. § 2904.1 shall take

10
effect January 1, 2013.

11
(2) The remainder of this act shall take effect

12
immediately.

20120HB2233PN3155
- 3 -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Where did you find all this? I would like to try and get a hold of everyone on that list.

[Killer Beez]

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2011&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=2233&pn=3155

Hope i did this correct. I seen a group of PA Breeders are collecting money to get a attorney to fight this. If this is true i have a few bucks to donate. I would support them 100% on this. thats crazy i have to pay $25 for a permit for each one of my snakes and there ball pythons.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2011&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=2233&pn=3155

Hope i did this correct. I seen a group of PA Breeders are collecting money to get a attorney to fight this. If this is true i have a few bucks to donate. I would support them 100% on this. thats crazy i have to pay $25 for a permit for each one of my snakes and there ball pythons.

Yea same, balls boas and burms over here.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Here you go guys:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/index.cfm?CFID=114923600&CFTOKEN=70856921

This page will help you find your state senator of PA so you can email them in opposition of bill 2233 (3155)!!

[pghpython]

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/cteeInfo.cfm?cde=18&body=H

This link has all of the members of the committee on game and fisheries. I have spoken to a few of my local reps on the list, they have said its unlikely that this will get past the committee but as I told them, after what happened with HR511 passing committee I will not take that chance. The state senators can not help as this is only in the house.

[bsharrah]

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/cteeInfo.cfm?cde=18&body=H

This link has all of the members of the committee on game and fisheries. I have spoken to a few of my local reps on the list, they have said its unlikely that this will get past the committee but as I told them, after what happened with HR511 passing committee I will not take that chance. The state senators can not help as this is only in the house.

Agreed. Contacting the Reps who make up this committee is what needs to be done. Way too early to do much else, especially collecting money for an attorney. What exactly is an attorney going to do at this point? Or at any point for that matter?

[pghpython]

Personally there's no point to an attorney with it being in committee. Just being proactive to the matter, to me at least, will help more now than anything else. The few guys I spoke to today are willing to listen and have even agreed to meeting with me next week.

[vafishinpa]

The state is just looking for more revenue to replace mismanaged funds! Reading it, I don't think it means $25 per animal but $25 to own herp pets right?

[suzuki4life]

Personally, I think everyone should place a call to each person who endorses these bills and let them know that if their name appears on ANY bill aimed at destroying your right to enjoy your hobby, you will vote for ANYONE other than them on the next election they are listed.

I talked to people over the gator ban bill. Illusions of 1000 lb gators, rampant attacks and thousands of gators living in PA sewers was the image they proposed. When I asked how a reptile would ever survive freezing temps for over 3 months a year. They went silent. Tried to say they'd learn to hibernate. I laughed.

Sometimes it is very hard to fix stupid people.

The people I spoke to could not direct me to a single attack documented in PA by a gator. They fumbled their words when i told them that in the USA more people are killed by horses annually than ALL reptiles combined. That feral dogs and cats pose greater threats to humanity through aggression, spread of disease and increasing numbers.

[vafishinpa]

If gators could hibernate and withstand the climate North of VA/NC border, don't they would already be here on their own power.

I guess the concern with the gators, is the sheer size they reach and what "could happen" if a large pet escaped.

I guess I should start voting again and pay more attention to the hobby that I enjoy so much.

[serena wise]

Pennsylvaia government is just as bad as any other state government, and sometimes the federal government. They all base their findings on what could be, and not what is.

I agree that as a general rule in Pa, that most reptiles are not going to survive our winter season, although this past season was a bit milder then usual. And that ferral cats and dogs do pose more of a health risk and danger to the general public on a daily basis then reptiles do.

Pennsylvania doest even enforce the laws that they have on the books now, and does not have enough knowledgeable staff to do so, so even if this bill passes I am not sure anything will come of it as far as enforcement goes for some time. I could be wrong, just my thoughts.

I don't personally care what animals or reptiles people own, and think that everyone should have a fair and equal right to keep and possess (RESPONSIBLY) any species of their choosing as long as it is done in accordance with the law (not illegally obtained, endangered and such). Pa has been a very easy state to obtain and keep just about anything, and I think they would have more pressing issues at hand with all of the venomous reptiles in possession and collections in the state, if they press issues to hard on the keeping of other reptile species.

I mean, in all honesty, and not picking on any one group, but have you ever been to the hamburg reptile show. I have seen large animals cramped in small containers, animals displayed in cracked or shattered aquariums, venomous species displayed in deli cups on tables that are easily accessible to small children, animals that clearly look unhealthy, animals of all kinds being sold to kids that clearly appear to under 18. I am sure that other shows are the same, but talk about RESPONSIBILTY, I am sure I am gonna take a nice hard hit on this one, but clearly I think the reptile community needs to take a look at some of the persona it gives off, and realize that it is some of our own actions that bring these bills to surface.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Kennet Square has just passed an ordinance banning any pet that bites within the borough.
This will also apply to any mammal (dogs and cats too) that bites someone or any other animal more than once in their lifetime.

Front page of the daily local today: http://www.dailylocal.com/article/20120311/NEWS01/120319959/1006/kennett-square-muzzling-pets-that-bite

[suzuki4life]

Pennsylvania doest even enforce the laws that they have on the books now, and does not have enough knowledgeable staff to do so, so even if this bill passes I am not sure anything will come of it as far as enforcement goes for some time. I could be wrong, just my thoughts.

I don't personally care what animals or reptiles people own, and think that everyone should have a fair and equal right to keep and possess (RESPONSIBLY) any species of their choosing as long as it is done in accordance with the law (not illegally obtained, endangered and such). Pa has been a very easy state to obtain and keep just about anything, and I think they would have more pressing issues at hand with all of the venomous reptiles in possession and collections in the state, if they press issues to hard on the keeping of other reptile species.

I mean, in all honesty, and not picking on any one group, but have you ever been to the hamburg reptile show. I have seen large animals cramped in small containers, animals displayed in cracked or shattered aquariums, venomous species displayed in deli cups on tables that are easily accessible to small children, animals that clearly look unhealthy, animals of all kinds being sold to kids that clearly appear to under 18. I am sure that other shows are the same, but talk about RESPONSIBILTY, I am sure I am gonna take a nice hard hit on this one, but clearly I think the reptile community needs to take a look at some of the persona it gives off, and realize that it is some of our own actions that bring these bills to surface.




Pa does enforce laws when called. And they are patrolling shows more than ever.

Why pick on venomous? No claims in PA in many many years mainly because the owners are either VERY lucky or they just might have enough common sense to being doing something right.

Hamburg, personally I don't think there should be anyone under 18 there period. I know there are plenty of great teenagers out there but I have to set a number somewhere. The place is packed tight enough without the stroller situation. If I saw abuse I would certainly report it. If you don't report it, you are damaging the hobby as bad as the abuser is.

[jntreptiles]

Kylie,

I don't know if you happened to catch this in the article that you posted a link to above, but the caption under the photo, it clearly states that the woman was holding a boa. It looks to me that this is a carpet python.

One more example as to why we as reptile keepers need to step up to the plate and be heard. Here are elected officials, voted into office by we the people, salaries paid by we the people, telling us what we can and cannot have as pets, when as depicted in the link above, they clearly are uneducated and have no idea what we have.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

@ Joe: yes I did notice that! It made me nuts!! It was printed that way in the paper too.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Once weather warms up a little more we will be walking our animals around town as we do every year.
This year I would like to take a petition with us against Bill 2233 (3155).
If anyone could help me figure out where we can get an online one started, that would be awesome.
Thanks

[suzuki4life]

walking your animals around town and imposing them on the general public is exactly what people shouldn't be doing.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Gary,
we walk our animals around west chester every summer, and have been for almost 7 years. We have regulars who always come up to us, and even certain restaurants that support us. We attend most of the cities community days, as well as being known by and supported by most of our local police force. It's just another one of our "free services" we provide to our local community, that also include school assemblies and other public appearances. If you need a nice place to get yours some fresh air, I suggest bringing them down to the town.

[suzuki4life]

I think its great you want to support your community. A booth at a local community "days" is nice. Especially if its a confined area where people can choose to be exposed or avoid. However, I do not think its a service to anyone to wander through any town imposing your animals on them. I don't appreciate it with people's dogs. I doubt many like it with your reptiles.

You don't need to expose people to the wonderful world of reptiles. They are not secrets. Toddlers can tell you that a snake image is a snake. But most importantly, reptiles have been demonized for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. We aren't going to change the image by force.

[jntreptiles]

Wow, I can't believe I'm going to actually contemplate on agreeing with Gary here, at least partially. And Chad, if you read this I don't want to hear about it. LOL.

I to think that is a great idea to find ways to both support and educate the public in any way in your local community. I have a strong belief in reptile education, and since 1987 have taken every chance I can to educate many people including children, adults, the elderly, area businesses and so forth about both native and exotic species of reptiles.

I educate about captive breeding programs, so that animals are not taken from the wild, so that wildlife habitat is saved not destroyed. About some of the bad myths and bad raps that these animals have gotten and endured over the years. The importance of responsible reptile ownership.

Lets face it, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist, a breeder, a full time business, or what your involvement in the reptile industry is, if you are the one behind the table making that sale, or the one in front of the computer making that web sale, RESPONSIBILITY starts with you. It is the quality of the product you are selling, your service, and your instructions and advice that you give to your customer (that next person in the chain) that is SOME of how the reptile world is received.

As far as carrying your animals around town, that can go both ways as Gary has stated. I can remember back in 1990 after just starting to get into many boa projects, I had an amazing normal boa about 6 foot long. I loved nothing more then to take him out and put him around my neck and walk around town. I to had many on lookers and much support from local businesses, even had a local pizza shop that g to mad when we didn't come around. BUT there was a day where I was approached by a plain clothes detective, who stopped me to talk about a complaint they had received no more then 10 minutes before. It was from a little old lady on the complete opposite side of the street, who was petrified more then anyone I think I have ever seen.

It was after that incident, that I do sorta now agree with Gary, I put that lady in a position where she was forced to be i that situation. I now choose to educate by offering educational seminars in a controlled environment where people can choose to be there.

Just some thoughts, and sorry for rambling

[bsharrah]

Once weather warms up a little more we will be walking our animals around town as we do every year.

If you really want to promote our hobby, keep the animals at home. You are doing our hobby far more harm than good, and it is troubling that you don't see that.

Consider this.....the people willing to approach you and sign your petition, aren't the ones we need to bring awareness too. It is the ones deathly afraid to come near you that we need to educate, and terrifying them isn't the way to go about it.

[suzuki4life]

Here's the info about who to call and let them know you oppose this bill:

Hon. Gary Haluska
114 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202073
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2073
(717) 787-3532
Fax: (717) 783-7548

Hon. Joseph F. Brennan
25A East Wing
PO Box 202133
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2133
(717) 772-9902
Fax: (717) 772-2284

Hon. Mike Carroll
527E Main Capitol Building
PO Box 202118
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2118
(717) 787-3589
Fax: (717) 780-4763

Hon. H. Scott Conklin
325 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202077
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2077
(717) 787-9473
Fax: (717) 780-4764

Hon. Peter J. Daley
214 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202049
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2049
(717) 783-9333
Fax: (717) 783-7558

Hon. Gordon Denlinger
211 Ryan Office Building
PO Box 202099
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2099
(717) 787-3531
Fax: (717) 705-1951

Hon. Garth D. Everett
430 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202084
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2084
(717) 787-5270
Fax: (717) 772-9958

Hon. Neal P. Goodman
G07 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202123
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2123
(717) 787-2798
Fax: (717) 772-9948

Hon. Eddie Day Pashinski
203 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202121
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2121
(717) 783-0686
Fax: (717) 772-2284

Hon. Curtis G. Sonney
149B East Wing
PO Box 202004
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2004
(717) 783-9087
Fax: (717) 787-2005

Hon. Jerry Stern
315A Main Capitol Building
PO Box 202080
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2080
(717) 787-9020
Fax: (717) 787-2420

this bill is goin to the same games and fisheries committees as 2063

Hon. John R. Evans
107 Ryan Office Building
PO Box 202005
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2005
(717) 772-9940
Fax: (717) 772-7099

Hon. Todd Rock
162A East Wing
PO Box 202090
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2090
(717) 783-5218
Fax: (717) 260-6505

Hon. Kurt A. Masser
414 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202107
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2107
(717) 260-6134
Fax: (717) 787-9463

Hon. Bryan Cutler
147A East Wing
PO Box 202100
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2100
(717) 783-6424
Fax: (717) 772-9859

Hon. Joe Emrick
160B East Wing
PO Box 202137
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2137
(717) 260-6159

Hon. Garth D. Everett
430 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202084
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2084
(717) 787-5270
Fax: (717) 772-9958

Hon. Keith Gillespie
45 East Wing
PO Box 202047
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2047
(717) 705-7167
Fax: (717) 772-9869

Hon. Marcia M. Hahn
402 A Irvis Office Building
P O Box 202138
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2138
(717) 783-8573
Fax: (717) 783-3899

Hon. Doyle Heffley
423 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202122
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2122
(717) 260-6139

Hon. Mark K. Keller
5 East Wing
PO Box 202086
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2086
(717) 783-1593
Fax: (717) 705-7012

Hon. David M. Maloney Sr.
6A East Wing
PO Box 202130
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2130
(717) 260-6161

Hon. Dan Moul
G32 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202091
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2091
(717) 783-5217
Fax: (717) 772-5499

Hon. Michael Peifer
153A East Wing
PO Box 202139
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2139
(717) 783-2037
Fax: (717) 705-1948

Hon. Jeffrey P. Pyle
147B East Wing
PO Box 202060
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2060
(717) 783-5327
Fax: (717) 260-6511

Hon. Mike Reese
163A East Wing
PO Box 202059
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2059
(717) 783-9311
Fax: (717) 260-6502

Hon. Edward G. Staback
225 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202115
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2115
(717) 783-5043
Fax: (717) 787-1231

Hon. Kevin P. Murphy
G01 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202113
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2113
(717) 787-8981
(877) 841-1450 Toll Free
Fax: (717) 705-1958

Hon. Gerald J. Mullery
115B East Wing
PO Box 202119
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2119
(717) 783-4893

Hon. Angel Cruz
528E Main Capitol Building
PO Box 202180
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2180
(717) 787-1407
Fax: (717) 780-4769

Hon. H. William DeWeese
331 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202050
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2050
(717) 783-3797
Fax: (717) 772-3605

Hon. Marc J. Gergely
325 Main Capitol Building
PO Box 202035
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2035
(717) 783-1018
Fax: (717) 780-4779

Hon. Gary Haluska
114 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202073
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2073
(717) 787-3532
Fax: (717) 783-7548

Hon. John Hornaman
27B East Wing
PO Box 202003
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2003
(717) 772-2297
Fax: (717) 780-4767

Hon. Deberah Kula
G05 Irvis Office Building
PO Box 202052
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2052
(717) 772-1858
Fax: (717) 780-4784

Hon. Tim Mahoney
324 Main Capitol
PO Box 202051
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2051
(717) 772-2174
Fax: (717) 780-4786

[hhmoore]

If you need a nice place to get yours some fresh air, I suggest bringing them down to the town.
In addition to the comments that have already been made, it should also be pointed out that, in many localities, you could get a ticket/citation....and possibly have your animal confiscated. It's great that your efforts have been so well received, but I suspect your own feelings might have blinded you to some less favorable reactions.
I've done displays which were well advertised, including big signs at the entranceways - or when approaching, in the case of more open/outside events - and witnessed physical injuries (and property damage) when people attempt a quick detour/redirect upon seeing a reptile.
Personally, I find it difficult to believe that you've taken reptiles out in public - to the extent that you've claimed - and never had a negative reaction.....and somewhat disturbing if you can say that you've never noticed.

[suzuki4life]

I just called an spoke with Haluska. He is really down playing what this bill could mean. I explained that it is absolutely absurd to place the same restrictions on a person trying to own a corn snake as someone who wants to own a bear. He claims to base his stance upon reports in his area of animals reported as running at large. I asked directly if he knew of any reports of reptile based attacks in PA and he replied "no". I ended the call with the concept that a Bull Mastiff was bred to fight lions. They grow extremely large and have know records of attacks on humans. In PA, they do not require an inspection of their enclosure to own and their license is under $15 to own. How would this be fair? He didn't seem very convinced.

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Everyone makes wonderful points. And to say we haven't had people who were afraid, or upset by them, would be ridiculous. We do occasionally get people who don't want to come near them, but in no way do we force them to be near them. Having talked to our local police chief years ago his words were this, and I thank him for being so unprejudiced to our animals, "If we were to ask you to take your animals home, or write you up for disturbing the peace in some way, what is to stop you from protesting every person who walks their dog down the street." He has stood by us tremendously, often bringing this up should someone mention something. We have a general area we stick to when walking with them, and West Chester is not an enormous town in itself. The first year we took them with us for a stroll through town was the summer of 2005, and I don't think we have missed a summer since.
I feel like I'm moving this thread off topic though from the original points I was trying to make about getting a petition signed and getting in contact with your local government as well as state to prevent this bill from being passed, so I invite anyone to continue the conversation on reptiles in public either in a new thread in the general discussion form or via PM!

[suzuki4life]

From what you wrote, I read it as your officer feels you'd be more headaches if he bothers you than ignores you. It doesn't mean he likes what you are doing or agrees with it. Leave your animals at home.

[hadenglock]

From what you wrote, I read it as your officer feels you'd be more headaches if he bothers you than ignores you. It doesn't mean he likes what you are doing or agrees with it. Leave your animals at home.

I gotta agree with that, dogs are one thing to take outside, but reptiles are a whole other story since we as reptile keepers are not considered a norm in society. Plus i could see reptiles stressing out when being forced into public situations.

[bcr229]

https://apnews.com/eeeae418facadaac7d84d0e4bfff4612

Pittsburgh council requires reptile owners to register pets

December 4, 2019

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Owners of alligators and other dangerous reptiles in Pittsburgh will be required to register their pets with the city under an ordinance that was approved Tuesday.

The ordinance requires owners of alligators, crocodiles and venomous snakes to store and transport their pets in escape-proof containers.

The owners must also provide the city with a list of each reptile they own. Rooms and buildings housing the animals also must be posted with notice that they contain reptiles.

City Councilwoman Darlene Harris, who sponsored the bill, said regulations are needed, particularly after a number of loose alligators appeared in the city in recent months.

At least four alligators were captured from May to October in the city and surrounding municipalities, The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported.

Harris amended the bill to exclude licensed animal owners, including zoos and zoological parks.

First-time violators could face a $300 fine per reptile. Repeat offenders could be assessed a fine of $10,000 per reptile.