Rabbits

[Southern Wolf]

Anyone here breed rabbits? I have been giving some thought about getting into them... but would like some first hand information.

[Dennis Hultman]

Yes. Want some? They are coming out my ...


Californians, New Zealands, and a whole bunch of Rex crosses that I use for feeders.

[Southern Wolf]

Yes. Want some? They are coming out my ...


Californians, New Zealands, and a whole bunch of Rex crosses that I use for feeders.

I wont be using them as feeders... unless they are feeding me. My main thoughts are about a supplemental meat source and also the pellets are supposed to be far better than any other form of fertilizer for the garden.

How many do you care for? What does it cost you in a months time? What kind of time are you putting in for care and maintenance?

I really know nothing about raising rabbits... so any help would be appreciated.

[Dennis Hultman]

Californians and New Zealands are individually housed and take very minimal time. Still, I haven't set them up with a automatic waterer so it is a daily chore. I have garbage cans underneath to catch the waste but thought about doing worms underneath. Read a interesting article on it sometime back.

Anyway, the mini rex's are in a fifty by thirty outside fenced pen. Automatic waterer for them but time consuming to clean up. All is reused on my property.

My costs are minimal for the rabbits.
Feed is supplemented every week from vegetable waste from the house, my own garden waste most of the year here, yard waste from my property, waste from two nearby organic farms, and a agreement I have with a couple of people that vend at two nearby farmers markets. I get all the corn husks, cut waste, visibly distressed fruits and veggies, etc.

The outside area is in between where I keep my turkeys and my chickens. One side borders a alley that the kids and adults like to walk and see the rabbits and chickens. One day a lady who owns a local restaurant came knocking asking if I would like to have all the vegetable trimmings and what they discard from the salad bar. That she enjoys looking at the animals. I said, sure. Now I get several large cans from her rotated every week. When corn is in abundance I get as much of the husks I can from the local grocery stores. Garbage bags full almost daily.
The rabbits really enjoy the husks.

At of all of the above what isn't consumed will go into compost. Still, I buy at least 100 pounds of feed a week between the chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese and rabbits. Only $20.00. My goal was self-sufficiency with those animals and I'm pretty much there. They will eat everything from my avocado peelings to all my other fruit rinds and fruit tree waste (prunings, etc).

If the feed stores closed tomorrow, I wouldn't worry.

Right now, I have around 35 adult rabbits.

Oh, and I'm overrun with passion fruit vines and only one of my daughters really likes passion fruit, so the rabbits and chickens both get a lot of the fruit and vines.

[Dennis Hultman]

Also, I want to point out that keeping them pinned in a area has its own set of problems. Keeping predators out and rabbits in. Digging, etc.. I finally had it licked until one of my rabbits learned to scale a eight foot high fence to eat some of my tomatoes. All in all, I prefer the outside area to individual cages.

[Southern Wolf]

Im not sure outside area is available to me. It would have to be pens. The coyotes would have a field day on the rabbit population as would the hawks.

[Southern Wolf]

Dennis.... what if you set up something like what Cheryl did here

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120291

Could you adapt that for a suitable rabbit pen. Maybe make houses on the ground for them to go into ... but wrap the thing in wire and put a solid side on the north side of the structure? How would you deal with the water? or with it freezing in the winter?

[Southern Wolf]

Looks like this author is happy with keeping the bunnies in a building type structure.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/1977-07-01/A-Better-Way-to-Raise-Rabbits.aspx

[Dennis Hultman]

The second link is more like how I keep the majority of my rabbits. I have multiple hutches for them in the outside enclosure. Given the chance they will burrow instead of using the hutches. Have to be real careful on rabbit proofing along the fence line and diligent at filling holes as they get started close to the fence. I didn't enclose the bottom. Just about four feet around the edges on the inside.

As far as freezing there are many methods people use. Many use water heaters. They make them for chickens. Being where I am it never freezes and I can grow all the way to December. Had squash and tomatoes still in December last year and waited just a couple of weeks and started planting winter vegetables in January.

[Lucille]

Dennis do you have a picture of your individual housing system for the New Zealands?

[Dennis Hultman]

Dennis do you have a picture of your individual housing system for the New Zealands?

Not on hand but I can take some for you. It is pretty standard caging with nest boxes and off the ground. All wire no wood. A lot of people talk about problems with feet on all wire but I always have fresh cuttings going in daily that cushion and the males have nest boxes as well to get off the wire. I do get them in a run when I can but not as often as I like. But you know, they aren't companion animals for me although I think I treat them very humanely and with respect.

[Lucille]

Anyone have an estimate of per-pound costs to raise rabbits? Not fixed costs like cages, but feed costs, assuming all feed is bought.

I can't have chickens/livestock in the burbs here, but no one is going to fuss about a couple rabbits.

[Southern Wolf]

I was able to dig this up... dont know if it will help. I haven't gotten to the bunny stage just yet. Gotta get the chickens situated before I build for the bunnies.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/2007-08-01/How-to-Raise-Backyard-Rabbits.aspx

[Lucille]

Thanks for getting it, but I'm looking more for a cost-per-pound to get a New Zealand to fryer size.
It seems silly for me to throw away garden trimmings, buy fertilizer, if it is cost effective to have a couple pairs of rabbits.
I'd love to sell and move out of the burbs and out into the country but homes just aren't selling right now.
I drooled over some little country houses on land in Ohio the other day.

[Southern Wolf]

Here ya go :)

http://doorgarden.com/07/the-economics-of-backyard-rabbit-raising

[Lucille]

perfect thank you!

[Southern Wolf]

Your welcome... best of luck on your adventure. I may have questions... so you better get to it :D

[Southern Wolf]

more info for ya Lucille


First categorical imperative: Where is your market? If it is to be simply your home freezer, then do the math. A good mommy will produce a litter (kindle) about four times each year. If she is a good mommy with good bloodlines and a medium size rabbit, that means eight per litter, X's four, ="s thirty-two. Or, thirty-two times two pounds--dressed weight at eight weeks-- equals 64 pounds of healthy, succulent meat per mommy, per annum. How many good mommies' do you need to fill your freezer?

http://backyardrabbits.homestead.com/Rule1.html

[Southern Wolf]

more info on conversion ratio's

http://www.raising-rabbits.com/meat-rabbits.html

[Lucille]

I have looked at rabbit supply catalogues and am considering buying a couple 'high-rise' cage stacks that have two or three cages stacked, on a frame with wheels. The advantage to me is that during periods of extreme heat and during hurricanes all the rabbits can come indoors.

Update: I've been looking at some rabbit forums and apparently extreme heat and fire ants can be problems, both of which are plentiful here. I'm thinking of keeping the rabbits indoors.

[Lucille]

I am on a list where one of the members has kept detailed records of her expenses and she buys feed from a feed store. Her final dressed out per pound meat costs are higher than what one would pay in a grocery store for other types of meats.

Unless you can do what Dennis is doing and feed primarily from gathered/donated feed, or unless you are a large operation and can get a break on commercial feed costs, raising rabbits can be an expensive way to get meat.

Keep in mind that there are other reasons to raise rabbits for meat-health, etc.

A heads up to those who might take on a few rabbits and try to supplement their grocery fund by growing a few meat rabbits and also selling a few baby bunnies, the government does not seem to want people to be enterprising and work hard, I guess they would rather we all be on welfare. This really ticks me off, I'd think that in this economy hard working families would be held up as examples, not be made examples and punished: http://biggovernment.com/bmccarty/2011/05/20/family-facing-4-million-in-fines-for-selling-bunnies/

I'm thinking that keeping a few rabbits that turn garden trimmings/waste into fertilizer is definitely worthwhile.

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

the first sentence mentions the dairy case. The owners of Morningland dairy who was the victim of the USDA in that case posts to homesteading web site I post to often. I actually get a lot of advice on cattle and dairy goats from her and use her guide for butchering goats to do my first meat goats. when the USDA first went after them it was a complete shock, and watching it unfold from there~ to their attempt to completely destroy this small family dairy to the proof that the original testing was not only faulty but also of a different dairy's cheese....and that it is still going on......(They are trying to force them to destroy $90,000 in embargoed cheese that is going to go bad while they fight not to destroy it and their livelihood)

It's just unbelievable. Did you know the FDA actually came out in open court and said that Americans DO NOT have the right to make their own food choices.

[Dennis Hultman]

the first sentence mentions the dairy case. The owners of Morningland dairy who was the victim of the USDA in that case posts to homesteading web site I post to often. I actually get a lot of advice on cattle and dairy goats from her and use her guide for butchering goats to do my first meat goats. when the USDA first went after them it was a complete shock, and watching it unfold from there~ to their attempt to completely destroy this small family dairy to the proof that the original testing was not only faulty but also of a different dairy's cheese....and that it is still going on......(They are trying to force them to destroy $90,000 in embargoed cheese that is going to go bad while they fight not to destroy it and their livelihood)

It's just unbelievable. Did you know the FDA actually came out in open court and said that Americans DO NOT have the right to make their own food choices.

Yeah, I've been reading about that. The food co-ops that have been targeted lately as well. It is getting way out of hand. They are targeting honest people doing honest work. A woman with a few dairy goats near me has been targeted regularly. One day they busted in her house , rounded up her kids, took her computers and left. Few months later, did the same but arrested her for legally selling goats milk. It is legal to sell raw milk in this state but they don't care. It is about control.

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Our tax dollars at work busting those evil natural food pushers

[Southern Wolf]

And some say our government doesn't want to control our ever moves. Yeah right :rolleyes_

While reading Country Wife's blog (http://countrylifewithcountrywife.blogspot.com/) I came to a conclusion. Sure I could raise chickens, rabbits, pigs, and sheep on my little one acre slice of heaven.... OR I could just raise chickens and rabbits... and use the other area to grow some of thier food. I believe that by next year I will be able to produce all the food for my rabbits. I plan on planting some red clovers, alfalfa, and timothy grass.

[Lucille]

It's just unbelievable. Did you know the FDA actually came out in open court and said that Americans DO NOT have the right to make their own food choices.

And this case: http://www.lawnix.com/cases/wickard-filburn.html is the landmark case giving immense power to the government to regulate almost every consumer item incuding food production. When we were learning about this case, it was asked of us, to think of one action or thing which did not in some way affect interstate commerce. No one could think of anything that directly, indirectly, or in aggregate would not. This case was in my opinion the biggest blank check ever given to our government.

[Southern Wolf]

Ok.... just read the article that was posted about the bunnies. That is F'in insane. And folks wondered why I decided to sell my reptile business. It's crap like this here. The government is hell bent on destroying all small business and let the big guys get away with murder.

[Southern Wolf]

Ummmm I dont know if anyone clicked on the followup link in the article. This is a bit on the scary side... and it applies to everyone. Including the reptile folks.

Recently, John and Judy Dollarhite received a “Certified Mail Return Receipt” letter (dated April 19, 2011) from the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. By reading the letter, they learned that the USDA was fining them $90,463 and that the fine must be paid by Monday. What prompted the fine? According to APHIS official, they had sold more than $500 worth of bunnies in a single calendar year.

Early Thursday afternoon, I asked a USDA spokesperson in Washington, D.C., if the USDA was really going to slap these hefty fines on the Dollarhites. After all, they had grossed only $4,600 — and netted a profit of approximately $200 — from their rabbit sales in 2009. And for what? Violating an obscure law that they and their lawyer could not even locate as being applicable to their rabbitry.

AND THE GOVERNMENTS REPLY

Our main focus here at USDA’s Animal Care program is to ensure that the animals covered under the federal Animal Welfare Act are being treated humanely. Animal welfare is at the heart of everything we do. So, we consider it very serious when there is an activity regulated under the Animal Welfare Act that is being conducted without a USDA license. Reason being, when individuals are licensed, USDA inspectors conduct periodic unannounced inspections of those individuals’ animals and facilities. It is during these inspections that our inspectors can see how the animals are being treated and handled. When unlicensed individuals conduct regulated activities, this hampers our ability to enforce the Animal Welfare Act and hampers our ability to ensure the welfare of their animals. If you don’t have a license, that means that we are not inspecting your facility and your animals, so we would have no idea how your animals are being treated.



All they would have to do (if they haven't already) is add all the animals under this Animal Care program and they have us by the short and curlies. Unannounced inspections and fines for everyone.

[Lucille]

And some say our government doesn't want to control our ever moves. Yeah right :rolleyes_

While reading Country Wife's blog (http://countrylifewithcountrywife.blogspot.com/) I came to a conclusion. Sure I could raise chickens, rabbits, pigs, and sheep on my little one acre slice of heaven.... OR I could just raise chickens and rabbits... and use the other area to grow some of thier food. I believe that by next year I will be able to produce all the food for my rabbits. I plan on planting some red clovers, alfalfa, and timothy grass.

The rabbits can eat trimmings from various veggies (not tomatoes I don't think). Would it be more productive to grow something you and the critters could eat?
And what if wild rabbits help themselves to your clover?

[Southern Wolf]

Oh Im sure they will help themselves...but I dont see them wiping out my patch. I have alot of native clover already growing and Im always having to cut it. I have some wild bunnies living under my porch.

[Dennis Hultman]

The rabbits can eat trimmings from various veggies (not tomatoes I don't think).

I had a rabbit get out of the pen by climbing up a fence. I walked out to my garden and found a few tomatoes on the ground half eaten. I looked over at my rabbit pen and on the inside I noticed the culprit. There she sat, a normally all white rabbit with tomato stains all around her face.

If you want to grow extra stuff for you and the animals I have a few suggestions. When you grow squash (at least here) I have so much I don't know what to do with. I throw a few their way. After they are done, I toss the whole plant to them.

Pumpkins for October. Also, you can offer to collect them after Halloween from others. Both the chickens and rabbits love them. Pumpkin seeds are a natural dewormer for the chickens.

[Lucille]

Thanks for the info. I thought I remembered something about avoiding tomato leaves? I'm thinking I'm fixing to get a ton of pickling cukes and will try to actually pickle some, but I'm going to see if the rabbits will eat the older ones I 'm not going to use.

[Dennis Hultman]

I had a rabbit get out of the pen by climbing up a fence. I walked out to my garden and found a few tomatoes on the ground half eaten. I looked over at my rabbit pen and on the inside I noticed the culprit. There she sat, a normally all white rabbit with tomato stains all around her face.

If you want to grow extra stuff for you and the animals I have a few suggestions. When you grow squash (at least here) I have so much I don't know what to do with. I throw a few their way. After they are done, I toss the whole plant to them.

Pumpkins for October. Also, you can offer to collect them after Halloween from others. Both the chickens and rabbits love them. Pumpkin seeds are a natural dewormer for the chickens.

Thanks for the info. I thought I remembered something about avoiding tomato leaves? I'm thinking I'm fixing to get a ton of pickling cukes and will try to actually pickle some, but I'm going to see if the rabbits will eat the older ones I 'm not going to use.

I just googled it and it appears that they are toxic to rabbits. Nothing noticeable happened to the rabbit that had tomato on her face. Also, I have thrown the plants over to them after they are done. Usually there is nothing left of them by the time the tomatoes are done. No leaves just stem. I guess I will not be doing that again.

[Shadera]

One breed I haven't seen mentioned is the Florida White for meat. They top out at about 6 pounds, which means they take up less space and eat less feed. Their fryers grow in line with other meat rabbits, and fine bones mean they dress out with just about as much meat as an NZ. A friend describes them as "the block of meat show rabbit". Might wanna give them a look.

Might have a few of them around here. :look: *whistles*

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Tomato is in the nightshade family which is why the leaves are toxic~ to us as well. But animals tend to know when a plant is toxic and refuse to eat it unless there is nothing else to eat (not always~ we all know of people who have lost stupid animals!) Also~ I don't know if tomato is one of them or not~ but some toxic plants such as buttercups are only toxic while alive and lose whatever it is that causes it to be toxic when it dries. On the other hand some plants like johnson grass and cherry leaves are fine while in their prime but become toxic when the plant gets stressed or is cut. But johnson grass is only toxic for a short time after being cut (which is why it is okay in hay) and unfortunately both of those tend to become more palatable at the toxic stage.

Or~ at least thats what I've been learning from my very helpful neighbors here! (I have a pasture full of buttercups and Johnson grass with a couple wild cherry trees for shade)

That clover your planning to plant~ my helpful neighbors tell me "Alyce" or White clover are the best for naturalizing and protein content here~ ask your neighbors or post to that homesteading site to ask whats good in your area.

[Southern Wolf]

Ive got the white clover in my yard... and I bought some white clover seed to plant between my raised beds. Since it stays short and will out compete all other grasses around here I plan on using the white clover as a living ground cover on the walk paths in my garden between the raised beds.

The red clover gets around 10 inches tall or so... and would make for better cutting and storing.

As to my neighbors... most are family and dont know anything about homesteading, and the rest of my close neighbors know even less.

[Lucille]

The meat rabbit project is not doing well at all on account of me having a lifetime of making pets of small critters like gerbils and guinea pigs. While my garden is beautiful and still producing despite the record heat and drought, I now have 3 small pet rabbits :rolleyes_

[Southern Wolf]

Oh lord Lucille..... There is a chance I may in the same boat. I hope not though. It's gonna be tough to have a barn full or pet rabbits and chickens.

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

I'm ruthless. I butcher chickens, ducks, goats, pigs even a rabbit once on my front porch (someone elses rabbit). I bought rabbits to breed and make baby meat rabbits for me over a year ago....

I let them loose in my old turkey pen and they dig holes all through my turkey pen, I suspect they are undermining my mouse house, and they do absolutely NOTHING useful and make NO babies ~ or if they do they are rotten parents, lots of rabbit sex going on out there....no baby bunnies.

Stupid things are so bloody cute~ run up to me and beg for feed every morning...
LOL~ so yeah....I'm not at all surprised you have three new very expensive pets....
stupid cute rabbits.

[Lucille]

I don't think I would mind dispatching chickens. But the rabbits are pretty appealling. 2 out of the 3 are already using litter boxes in their cages.
Plus I'm decorating their cages, I have some fabric I'm going to put on the back.
All I can say for myself as far as survival skills, is that I'm getting to be very good at gardening and growing food. Next year I plan to substantially increase productivity by putting in trellises so I can use more vertical space.

[bigalosu]

They are crazy (and cute) little creatures. My wife bought one over a year ago and it runs the house freely. It's litter-box trained and otherwise acts like a dog following us around the house, begging for food, jumping and playing. She even convinced me to let her get it fixed so it could live longer and eventually get a friend. Before we owned it I considered raising rabbits for meat like my grandfather, but now I think that would be extremely difficult.

[Dennis Hultman]

the first sentence mentions the dairy case. The owners of Morningland dairy who was the victim of the USDA in that case posts to homesteading web site I post to often. I actually get a lot of advice on cattle and dairy goats from her and use her guide for butchering goats to do my first meat goats. when the USDA first went after them it was a complete shock, and watching it unfold from there~ to their attempt to completely destroy this small family dairy to the proof that the original testing was not only faulty but also of a different dairy's cheese....and that it is still going on......(They are trying to force them to destroy $90,000 in embargoed cheese that is going to go bad while they fight not to destroy it and their livelihood)

It's just unbelievable. Did you know the FDA actually came out in open court and said that Americans DO NOT have the right to make their own food choices.

Here is their testimony.

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