450 Million Hollow Points Ordered

[SPJ]

Why does the Department of Homeland Security need 450 million hollow point 40 cal bullets? They are illegal to use in war because of the Geneva Convention so what are they going to do with them domestically?
Is this an attempt to corner the market so citizens cannot purchase this ammo or is there something else going on?

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-28/news/31247765_1_atk-rounds-bullet

[Metachrosis]

Close quarter urban combat

[Metachrosis]

https://s6-eu.startpage.com/do/search?cmd=process_search&pid=3983d06a80ebeebd9cf922b2662c63c6

[JColt]

Homeland Security = Legal rape of taxpayer.

[Helenthereef]

I'm thinking impending Zombie Apocalypse.......

[Metachrosis]

If folks would study up on this NWO as it steadily progress's
zombies would be a much appreciated option.

[Lucille]

Just a random thought: I wonder if this purchase has anything to do with this:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325824

I am not a farmer but I know that vegetation is at the bottom of the food chain and there is a lot of engineered stuff like grass, corn, etc. If the bottom of the food chain breaks down, I believe starvation would be imminent and the hollow points might be in store to keep order.
No factual basis for my thought, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

[hhmoore]

https://s6-eu.startpage.com/do/search?cmd=process_search&pid=3983d06a80ebeebd9cf922b2662c63c6

Link opens to the search engine...I'm guessing you wanted to link something more?

[hhmoore]

I don't doubt that they're for domestic use...a few of my coworkers have talked about their children's conversations with (I think) recruiting officers - questioning willingness to take action against US citizens, and things of that nature. Our government has well overstepped it's bounds, and those involved want to keep their power.

[Metachrosis]

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-purchase-another-750-million-rounds-of-ammo/

[Metachrosis]

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd95987a1ad9a6dfb22bca4a19150cb&_cview=0 (mhtml:{C48F5CF1-FC91-4F15-8D2F-4CB7865CA77E}mid://00000001/!x-usc:https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd95987a1ad9a6dfb22bca4a19150cb&_cview=0)

[Dennis Hultman]

Social Security Administrations turn?


https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=6c39a2a9f00a10187a1432388a3301e5&tab=core&tabmode=list&=

[Dennis Hultman]

https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=df46c06a5c2c5e72bbfb1fd4fb244ae5

https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=2014bef24fa3036092167fe586ee5216

[WebSlave]

Why in the world would the SSA need ammunition? They expecting a riot from retirees when the goverment pulls the plug on SS benefits completely? Well, yeah, I guess that DOES answer my own question.....

[AbsoluteApril]

I think you're onto something there Rich...

[Dennis Hultman]

Page #5 attached.

Yeah, no kidding. 174K for a non law enforcement agency?

[Dennis Hultman]

While this guy talks about the subject of this thread in the first part of this video, I really agree with him on the second point he makes about what happens after a party change in office. I have seen it over and over again myself in peoples attitudes.

Anyway, I found him entertaining in his delivery and some of his earlier videos are hilarious and agreeable with me.


WPdHccbnaCI

[Dennis Hultman]

Agencies tamp down speculation over hollow-point ammo purchases

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/17/agencies-tamp-down-speculation-over-hollow-point-ammo-purchases/


Obscure federal agencies triggered a firestorm of conspiracy theories this week after they put out orders for thousands of rounds of deadly hollow-point bullets.

But the agencies, most recently the Social Security Administration, are trying to put a damper on the speculation -- noting the ammunition is "standard issue" and simply used for mandatory federal training sessions.

"Our special agents need to be armed and trained appropriately," said a message on the official blog for Social Security's inspector general office explaining the purchases.

The bullet purchases drew widespread attention as the website Infowars.com published several stories on them that were linked off the widely read Drudge Report and other sites. Infowars.com catalogued a string of recent purchases -- first by the Department of Homeland Security, then by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and then the Social Security Administration.

The Social Security Administration solicitation, posted Aug. 7, called for 174,000 rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition."

Infowars.com speculated that the purchases were being made in preparation for "civil unrest," imagining a scenario of economic collapse where seniors could cause "disorder" if denied their Social Security benefits.

But the Social Security Administration statement, posted Thursday, noted that their agents need firearms and ammo in the course of training, investigations and responding to threats against offices and employees.

"As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA's programs," the office said.

The agency said it has 295 special agents across 66 offices in the country. "These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests," the statement said.

As for concern about the type of bullets -- hollow points, which expand upon impact -- the statement said the type is "standard issue" and is used during "mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions."

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA, found itself scrambling to respond to a similar report this week about an order for 46,000 rounds of ammo. Though the agency initially indicated it was for the National Weather Service -- leading to questions about why the National Weather Service could possibly need so many bullets -- a spokesman clarified the bullets are actually meant for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement. A "clerical error" resulted in the order saying the ammo was for the weather service.

Spokesman Scott Smullen said the error's been fixed in the bidding system. He, too, said the ammo is "standard issue" and will be used by 63 enforcement personnel at NOAA during qualifications and training sessions.

"NOAA officers and agents enforce the nation's ocean and fishing laws to ensure a level playing field for fishermen and to protect marine species like whales, dolphins and turtles," he said.

According to NOAA, the specialized agents are supposed to have 200 rounds in their "duty bag," and qualification and training requires another 500-600 rounds per agent.

[WebSlave]

I'm not sure I can buy that explanation.

Hollow point .357 Sig ammunition is about 30 percent more expensive than the equivalent ballistics of the truncated cone version (full metal jacket) of this round, which would work just as well for practice and training shooting.

With budgets being cut and all government agencies scrambling to try to make budget ends meet, why in the world would these agencies unnecessarily order the much more expensive version of this round?

[Docglock]

It was the Hague convention (not Geneva) that addresses the use of expanding ammo. Supposedly, the ammo is for training. I served as a SWAT physician for a time, and we trained with .45 ACP hollow point rounds. They also carried .45 ACP in their duty weapons. So I kinda get the whole training thing..... But, SSA?!?!? Really? Not sure why so many "non peace keeper" agencies are going through simultaneous training cycles.

[Docglock]

And to add....357 Sig is EXPENSIVE. Several agencies use it though (for whatever reason). Oklahoma Highway Patrol uses it. Several agencies use .40 cal, others use 9mm.

[Metachrosis]

You will soon enough .........

[Docglock]

You will soon enough .........


That's what I'm afraid of!

[Focal]

It's a good thing I work for DHS :)

BTW, SSA has Special Agents that are armed, appx 300 I think.

Honestly, 90% of the time, when I went to the range, I used hollow points.

[Mooing Tricycle]

Lucilles food comment is a serious consideration. People who CAN grow food for themselves, should, people who have the time for even a small amount of self sustainability should get on the ball.

Big companies like Monsanto are NOT the answer to our worldly food issues and many countries have flat out denied their product. Its disgusting that this stuff is even acceptable as food.

[WebSlave]

If anyone thinks that growing your own food is going to be easy, and you are merely stocking up the supplies to do so when you NEED it, you are likely in for a seriously rude awakening when you find out that it's not nearly as easy to farm as you might hope.

[Mooing Tricycle]

If anyone thinks that growing your own food is going to be easy, and you are merely stocking up the supplies to do so when you NEED it, you are likely in for a seriously rude awakening when you find out that it's not nearly as easy to farm as you might hope.


Really? Because we are doing it currently... Its very enjoyable work!

[WebSlave]

It's a good thing I work for DHS :)

BTW, SSA has Special Agents that are armed, appx 300 I think.

Honestly, 90% of the time, when I went to the range, I used hollow points.

Well the question I have in mind is WHY in the world SSA would have any NEED to have armed special agents? :confused:

And I agree, I tended to practice with the ammunition I would be shooting. But I'm not buying 450 million of them where the price difference would become a substantial amount of money.

[Lucille]

Really? Because we are doing it currently... Its very enjoyable work!
I moved to my little home last year and am going to put in a square foot gardening type garden, only about 15 feet by 5 feet, and in another garden I have blackberries growing already, planted when I first moved in.
I have to admit that my larger garden at my old house was becoming more than I could handle, but what I am planning now would be a perfect way to supplement (but not be self sufficient).
I think I'm going to do more food storage, things like corn are cheap when purchased dried, and growing corn and other grains takes more space than what I have.

[Mooing Tricycle]

I moved to my little home last year and am going to put in a square foot gardening type garden, only about 15 feet by 5 feet, and in another garden I have blackberries growing already, planted when I first moved in.
I have to admit that my larger garden at my old house was becoming more than I could handle, but what I am planning now would be a perfect way to supplement (but not be self sufficient).
I think I'm going to do more food storage, things like corn are cheap when purchased dried, and growing corn and other grains takes more space than what I have.

I should note, im not talking about being 100% SELF sustaining, but environmentally sustainable. They are different things entirely. I could not do a 100% self sustainable farming job, as that would be a mighty intense amount of work that would also require some major equipment. Just living more or less OFF dependancy of a global food market, and work in a much more local market. Supporting eachother. Like we are building up now, in my area :) Im making lots of great farming friends, which is wonderful!!

But! Lucille, Im glad, thats pretty cool!! We barter and trade. Currently we have a flock of about 33 chickens, and a small garden that supports up to six people during these summer months, thus far. The chickens are giving us anywhere from a dozen or more eggs a day, which we sell to make up for feed, and give to family/friends. I traded eggs lately, too for home grown garlic that should last us several months. We started this venture this year and has always been a big dream of mine. This is the kind of work I personally thrive in! When we buy our own home in the near future Im also going to raise goats, and plant food crops for the birds to remove my need to buy grain entirely.

I will not be growing corn, its an intense crop that needs a LOT of ground work in place if you really want it to be successful!, mainly foods i can sell and barter with to other farmers who choose not to work with the animals I do. Our birds are for meat and eggs, and we will actually be buying some broilers to raise up as well. I wanted to do turkeys this year, but decided to wait for next spring.

[Docglock]

And I agree, I tended to practice with the ammunition I would be shooting. But I'm not buying 450 million of them where the price difference would become a substantial amount of money.


It's the government :) cost doesn't matter. It's your money that is buying their ammo!

[Focal]

This sounds like a Use it or Lose it deal. Every part of the government that receives funding during a fiscal year, will approach their deadline and will face a position of spending every bit of leftovers or they will lose it the following year. If there is $500k left in funds, they will buy anything to spend that amount or they may not receive that $500k leftover next year. I've seen this a lot and have even been told to spend it. Whether its new laptops, electronics, supplies or even ammunition?

[Mooing Tricycle]

Wow Nick... No wonder our taxes never go down. Lots of towns do this too, its kind of lame.

[Metachrosis]

Add another 200 Million rounds to the tab

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-200-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

[Focal]

Wow Nick... No wonder our taxes never go down. Lots of towns do this too, its kind of lame.


Yup. I think it's called "spend down."

[Metachrosis]

add another 200,000 rounds to the list

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-buys-200000-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

[Focal]

add another 200,000 rounds to the list

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-buys-200000-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

No offense, but that article reeks of ignorance. I actually work with the MLEA for the USCG. There is no "stock piling" going on at this facility. Many, many LEO's are trained at this facility annually and yes, they go through a large amount of rounds. If we are to be protected by LEO's, should they not be properly trained with firearms? Lets say 400 cadets graduated this year, that would 500 rounds per person, not counting any of the instructors or their need to practice. These guys must qualify to carry a firearm and how else can they do this without going to the range?

[Focal]

The bullets are to be delivered to a training site in North Charleston, South Carolina, which “specializes in Maritime Law Enforcement and Port Security Training. Basic and advanced training programs are conducted in concert with the U.S. Coast Guard Maritime Law Enforcement Academy, the U.S. Courts Probation and Pretrial Services Training Academy, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Training Academy, the Customs and Border Protection Field Operations Academy, and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.”

Honestly, does this sound like a facility that would benefit from "stockpiling" a measily 200K? They keep mentioning training. What do you think they are training on? Call of Duty?

I can understand certain questions being asked, but this one makes no sense. The article continues to repeat that the governement is stockpiling, but each branch is funded seperately and all orders are routed through a supply department. I bet you a million dollars the president isn't whispering in the ears of the bottom feeders that pull the numbers required to supply the field.

Take a minute to do the math, 200000 rounds for $45000, right? That's about 4.5 rounds PER DOLLAR. There are several firearm owners right in this thread. Can any of you get rounds this cheap? The governement usually pays more than the public on everything they buy. Should they just start buying rounds by the box? I'm sure that would stretch our tax dollars.

[Focal]

Well the question I have in mind is WHY in the world SSA would have any NEED to have armed special agents? :confused:

And I agree, I tended to practice with the ammunition I would be shooting. But I'm not buying 450 million of them where the price difference would become a substantial amount of money.

Sorry, I missed this question.

http://news.yahoo.com/why-does-social-security-174-000-bullets-070710918.html

Edit: Never mind, just realized it was answered above. But yes, they carry out search warrants, arrests, and investigations.

[Metachrosis]

Five for You and Five for Me

http://lionsofliberty.com/2013/02/07/homeland-security-owns-5-bullets-per-american/