does anyone know about this forum

[sschind]

I know that everyone who uses this site appreciates to high heaven the job that Rich does in providing it.  The reason I am starting this thread is to encourage everyone to make their posts in the appropriate place.  The BOI is becoming way to cluttered and this forum is woefully under utilized.  I haven' taken the time to gather the stats but I wouldn't be afraid to say that at least half of the threads, and probably 75% of the posts on the BOI don't belong there if you follow the intentions of the board.   I also find it strange that probably 75% of the posts on the BOI come from people who's names never show up on this forum.

It (the BOI) is supposed to be a forum for people who have had good or bad experiences with others.  It was not intended (I don't think) to be a place for people to ask what they should do if the boa they got in a trade from someone thay do not want to name was actually 3.5 feet instead of the the 4 feet that the other guy claimed, or if 1 of the 99 baby chameleons they got died 2 weeks after they arrived and the seller won't do anything about it.  What's even worse than these threads getting started in the first place is the 4 pages of responses that they generate.

I'm sure I have just wasted my time with this as it seems that the worst offenders probably never visit this part of the site, at least I never see their names,  but I had a bad day and I had to vent.

for the record, nobody died and made me king, and yes these are my opinions, and yes I know that like --------  everyone has one.  And I know that this is America and that you are free to do whatever you damn well please, everyone else be damned, and if they don't like it they can leave or they  don't have to read it or they can stick it you know where.

All I am saying is to think about the FREE service that is being provided with this site and to try to be a little  more concerned about the effort that Rich has to put into it.

I am off my soapbox now, and I feel better.  Feel free to blast
away at me and to point out my failures as a human being, but please at least consider what I have said.

Steve Schindler

[Necromancer420]

i bet u 20 bucks my day was worse than yours
      Buddy McCannabis

[Glenn Bartley]

I think that some of the examples you gave of people reporting a snake they received as not what was offered, or all of the animals dying in short order and the dealer not doing anything about it are valid subjects for the BOI. I think that is what the BOI was made for. Sure I know it is also to make inquiries such as: Glenn Bartley - is he an honest dealer; or to make comments such as: Glenn Bartley he is a goood or bad. But could you imagine a BOI where 25 people name you as a bad guy and that is all they put down in print with no explanation as to why! That almost seems to be what you are asking for.

If I get burned by someone who sells me a 2.5 foot juvenile  snake instead of a 4.5 breeder sized snake that the seller said he/she was shipping to me- well, then why should I not post about this on the BOI. This guy ripped me off plain and simple. If not in the BOI then where should I post it? It certainly is not a General Forum matter since it deals with a dishonest seller. Isn't that what the BOI was meant to report.

As for a dealer selling you a bunch of animals that all die in two weeks - well this is border line. If the dealer had a 100 percent money back guarantee that all of the animals would arive healthy, and then you take them to a vet for a necropsy and find they all died from a disease that they must have had for many months in order to weaken them enough to kill them - well then I would think that is a BOI matter. Why - because the seller sold you a bunch of poopoo (LOL) about his 100 percent money back guarantee if they do not arrive healthy. Sure you could talk about this on the General Forums too, but I always thought that the complaining and whining (legitimate or not) about sellers and buyers should stay on the BOI and noit in the General Forum; and I believe that the General Forum should contain threads about herps not about herp dealers and herp deals. When both boards start to become completely cluttered up with a bunch of junk like that - it will be time for me to look elsewhere for a forum.

[southamptonherps]

I believe the reason Rich started the B.O.I. was because he was tired of being ripped off. So I think anything about being ripped off would be appropriate. It is unfortunate that this forum isn't utilized more. IMHO

[sschind]

Glenn,

I might have been a bit high on my estimate of inappropriate threads, most of them start off appropriatly enough but too many of them turn to garbage within the first half dozen responses.

The whole snake pit thing was a fiasco  the number of meaningfull posts was probably 15 or 20  the rest was pure BS and "I want my name on the BOI too" crap.

the Bob Clark thread took what 4 posts to degenerate into a discussion about crocs and retics that really had nothing to do with Bob Clark and everything to do with ethics of selling herps.  Something that would have died after 3 posts on this forum.

I agree.  If someone sends you a misrepresented snake and won't fix the situation then by all means POST HIS NAME & the details.  Just don't get into a 5 page diatribe about how you wait untill your snakes are 4.5 feet to breed them when another guy claims he breeds his at 3.5 feet, and how he doesn't know his asp from a hole in the ground.

Also, if someone posts that they got ripped off, don't respond if you don't have anything to say.  Posts like "aw that sucks man, I'd bash the living #### out of that guy."  do nothing for anyone.

By all means,  If you got ripped off, or even if you think you got ripped off make the post.  Or if you got a great deal or great service from someone, make the post.  thats what the BOI is there for.  but keep your posts relevent.  It seems that the 80/20 rule is in effect there also.  80 % of the posts are made by 20% of the people.  Sadly, in my opinion, 80% of those posts are worthless to the threads.

I also expect probably 2 more responses to this thread before it dies here,  If I posted the same thing on th BOI it would probably go on for three pages.

Steve Schindler

[WebSlave]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I also expect probably 2 more responses to this thread before it dies here, &nbsp;If I posted the same thing on th BOI it would probably go on for three pages.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Steve - you have to ask your self why that statement is true. &nbsp;In many cases, it is because people will specifically post their message in the BOI simply because they KNOW it will get more attention there. &nbsp;People post messages in the hopes that people will read them. &nbsp;It's an ego thing. &nbsp;And the more people whom read their words of wisdom, the happier they will be about it.

I have my hands full deleting the comments that are rather useless to the direction of a given thread, many of which you probably never see. &nbsp;But how many messages like that do you think you could put up with spending the time deleting before you just get tired of doing it? &nbsp;If anyone thinks that this site is pulling in enough money for me to be a full time moderator and ignore all of the other stuff that NEEDS my attention, well you are not seeing the situation clearly.

Yes, certainly sometimes a thread will certainly go off on a tangent, because that's just the way people are when they get into a discussion. &nbsp;In your reference to the Bob Clark thread, although the topic did drift away from what the original message intended, it was still relevant.

In another thread (I think about MnR), the thread has drifted off into a discussion about PayPal and people passing through the percentages. &nbsp;Certainly it is not relevant to the thread, nor to the BOI itself, but this message board does not allow me the tools to be able to surgically remove individual messages from a thread and copy them into another thread. &nbsp;Often in a case like that, deleting those messages would frustrate a lot of people that are having an interesting discussion among themselves.

I have tried everything I know of to try to herd people into the proper channels to use this message system in the way I envisioned it, but it is an exercise in futility. &nbsp;Quite frankly, I don't have the time to spend to read each and every message in every thread, so as long as there is no obvious damage being done by people enjoying an interesting conversation, then I have no problems at all letting it run it's course.

There are all kinds of personalities taking place in the discussions in this site. &nbsp;I cannot expect them all to think exactly like I do, and certainly will not force everyone to try to be exactly like me. &nbsp;I would much rather err on the side of tolerance rather than being an a$$hole about my rules with no bending and flexibility when warranted.

[EMERALDGUY33]

Interesting topic, Steve. Seems like I once started a topic along these same lines. It just died out and drifted away. I think it was called &quot;BOI Etiquette&quot;. It just disappeared from lack of interest. Oh well, here's the link to refresh your memory:

Link (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=3507;hl=etiquette)

Hope I did that right. Anyways, you were the last to reply in it, Steve. spam_I believe that to a degree, my points in it were similar to some of yours here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and yes these are my opinions, and yes I know that like -------- spam_everyone has one.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I like your reference to my signature quote, by the way. Take care and have a nice day.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[sschind]

John

I see what you mean. &nbsp;I guess if there are no inside jokes between buddies or mudslinging, the topics are just not interesting enough to warrent a response.

Steve Schindler

[EMERALDGUY33]

Steve,

I won't lie. There are just some topics that elicit a &quot;humorous&quot; response from me. I enjoy a little back 'n forth posting every now and again. I'm only human. However, I do agree with you on some points. I think that there is a point when it does become too much. I also agree that this forum is woefully under-utilized. As far as being a regular in the Discussion Forum, there are just not that many topics in there that interest me. Because:

A. I have no knowledge of the topic at hand.
B. There is hardly ever a topic in there pertaining to the snakes I keep.
C. The topics do not interest me in general.

Apparently, I am even guilty of placing a topic in the BOI that belonged here. As I thought it belonged in the BOI due to content. But hey, I guess that's what I get for doing my own thinking. Anyways, I hope I have helped to clrify my position for you.

Take care and have a nice day!!! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Darin Chappell]

I'm probably most guilty of having the &quot;MnR&quot; thread go afiled from its initial intent, but that was because someone said something about PayPal usage and it caught my attention. &nbsp;I posted right there while the thought process was fresh in my mind, and I think that is how most people post.

I should have brought that idea down here to this part of the board (maybe posting a detour message on the BOI), but I didn't. &nbsp;Maybe that's part of the problem on the BOI, but I tend to look at it a different way.

I guess I'm not so concerned about the wandering nature of many of the threads as I am about the complete lack of support for some the accusations (or &quot;attaboys&quot;) offered on the BOI. &nbsp;It really bothers me whenever anyone just makes assumptions for the good or the bad without ever looking to the actual evidence presented. &nbsp;True, some of the evidence is circumstantial in many cases, in which event it is up tot he reader to evaluate the evidence via the reputation of the poster, but the evidence is there to be seen in most cases. &nbsp;

I hate it when a good and valid thread is innundated (sp) with all of the &quot;I think&quot; or &quot;I feel&quot; posts, when a good ole' fashioned &quot;Just the facts, Ma'am&quot; post would be so much more illuminating. &nbsp;Unfortunately, a lot of the back and forth in the BOI is due to the fact that some of the people posting on there are really terrible, liars, and really terrible liars. &nbsp;When those combinations of character (or lack thereof) appear on the BOI, people see them and react vehemently against them! &nbsp;Personally, I think that is good, so long as the personal vendettas can be kept to a minimum.

Just my thoughts on the subject at hand --

P.S. &nbsp;At least you got more than two more posts in this thread!! &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[sschind]

I guess one of the reason that more people don't post on this forum is because they may be sending private messages to people when they do not feel that their response warrents a public posting. &nbsp;In fact, I send out more emails than I do
posts.

Webslave,Thanks for taking the time to respond. &nbsp;I never intended to sound like you weren't doing enough. &nbsp;I know we all appreciate you providing us with the means to run our mouths off like this. &nbsp;I understand where you are coming from, and I will let it rest. &nbsp;I agree with you erring on the side of &nbsp;tolerance when you point out the alternative.

Steve Schindler

[EMERALDGUY33]

Were there to be more topics regarding stuff that I am interested in, I would be more active in this forum. Regarding the BOI, let's face it Steve. It is like the proverbial train wreck. You don't want to look, although you can't look away. I often tell myself that I'm not going to post. I'll just keep my mouth shut. Then a post comes along where I am almost compelled to reply. I'm the type of person that if I have something to say, I say it. Regardless. Every now and again, I put my foot in my mouth. But for the most part, I think and I feel (sorry bud, had to *lol*) that I am fair, honest, and considerate. But like I've said before. That's what I get for doing my own thinking!!!

Been a pleasure discussing with you. Have a good one. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>