Inappropriate Forum Postings

[Seamus Haley]

Right now according to the list of rules infractions, posting a message in an inappropriate forum has a warning level of one, but no warning points attached to it... I am of the opinion that this should be changed to include warning points.

If I recall the discussion thread where Rich asked about which warnings should be used and what kind of penalties attached to each, the general consensus seemed to be that anyone posting in an inappropriate forum would likely be making an honest mistake (i.e.- the people who sometimes put BOI posts in the feedback forums, they were simply a tad confused and shouldn't be penalized for an innocent mistake). I don't believe it occured to anyone that people would be deliberately creating posts in the wrong forum knowing in advance that it was in fact, the wrong forum.

Lately however a few forums have become introverted, with members posting only in a specific forum where they have grown accustomed to the other individuals there, rather than in a forum which would be appropriate for the subject matter. As a hypothetical example "Here's a picture of my dog!" in the venomous forum... Concrete and obvious examples are all over the board however I'd like to keep THIS thread generalized if possible, discussing the broader issue rather than specific cases.

This kind of clannish mentality only hurts the community and the board as a whole in multiple ways. It hampers larger discussions and site growth by hiding conversations in inappropriate areas, using my above hypothetical example, the only people who would participate would be those interested in BOTH venomous snakes AND dogs. Only those interested in venomous snakes would be in the forum it was found, only those interested in dogs would see the thread and potentially participate. Rather than an excellent well exposed and meaningful thread in the mammal forums which would generate interest from everyone who'd like to see photos of a dog, it's left with a smaller audience and the mammal forums are left unused. This becomes even worse when new users may be browsing the forums prior to registering or actively participating, doubly so when it involves a husbandry or biology subject. So discussion in some forums stagnates due to a lack of use. When there are few (or no) posts to begin with, people are less likely to post additional threads there, believing the message would be ignored. Additionally, rather than having a large forum of active users ALL interacting when their interests coincide on diverse topics, you get a large number of small groups who interact only with one another. A limited number of participants means a limited number of possible conversations, after which even those forums which were being used (sometimes inappropriately) stagnate as well... or go entirely in the toilet as the number of off topic threads increases.

There was a LOT of discussion and thought put into the current arrangement for the forums. Rich has supplied his users with virtually EVERYTHING they could possibly want, down to forums wholely devoted to non-animal non-business related topics (Sound Off, General BS) even going so far as to create a forum entirely for childish fights because it's what his users wanted. Isolationist posts where an individual chooses to ignore the forum topic and posting guidelines make all of that thought and effort entirely meaningless, wasted on ungrateful masses.

The only really worthwhile argument I have seen to justify these blatant violations of the rules would be those which state that forming such groups enhances community. While I have already explained why it damages the herp keeping community as a whole, it does strengthen the limited sense of community within a given microdemographic (I may have just made that word up). However even this is not a valid reason for so flagrantly breaking the rules, as Fauna includes additional tools for sharing your posts with a specific community. The user control panel includes a buddy list- if the regular posters of a specific forum wish to share a topic they have created within a seperate forum, believing they may have something to contribute, it's a matter of mere seconds to create the thread in the appropriate forum and send a private message to ALL their buddies with a link to the thread.

I believe that fairly well sums up my position on the matter, for what it may be worth as an individual poster with regular participation. Given the arguments presented above, I believe that this is a more serious infraction than it was originally conceived of being and that perhaps stricter enforcement may be warranted. It would mean additional work for the moderators in the short term, but given time I believe it would correct the situation. An application similar to the full name rule perhaps... When it's obvious an innocent mistake was made, a friendly correction is made. When it's obviously intentional, more severe penalties for the first few infractions (warning points for instance) and repeat offenders risk having their posts deleted without warning.

To this post I'm going to attach a poll with a few options. I will try my best to make them impartial but I'd ask that anyone who feels strongly one way or the other add a written reply explaining their position and the reasons behind it as well. The final decision is of course in the hands of Rich and the moderators, but history shows that this site is *fairly* democratic and that at least voicing the concerns is accepted and even encouraged, regardless of what decision is eventually made.

[robin d.]

Off topic posts are simply another way of communicating with individuals who have formed affable relationship dynamics,
now while i do agree with this part i do not think the OT topics should be abused like on KS... show me your pics "oh your a hotty" however if the posy is posted in the forum it should be posted in and then in the forum they might frequent more (esoecially herp related material) i see no prob but dont abuse it... it is just like any other forum use it wisely but do not abuse it... say next year i produce bolivian amarali (would be a huge milestone for me)you bet your sweet ass ima post it in the boa section but because of all the leo buds i got i will share there to or at least link them to my post
so i do agree with the above statement however i do not think it should be done all the time or encouraged and subsequently abused
hope i spelled this right cuz i cant even see they keys im typing on nor the screen LOL i have to wait and read everything after the fact.... and it take up so much time just for me to post just normally can you imagine how much time it would take me to correct all my errors.

plus i am the run-on sentance queen

[WebSlave]

I am planning an upgrade sometime in the near future for this site. One of the bells and whistles offered in the update is that I can make subforums actually link to external URLs as well as local subforums in other areas of this site.

So, in effect, I can put an OFF TOPIC subforum in another forum and link it to another more relevant forum. For instance, I could put a subforum in the Leopard Gecko Discussion forum called Off Topic Posts and have that simply linked to the General BS forum. I could do the same in the Bearded Dragon Discussion Forum as well. So in effect, the off topic subforums will appear to be local to the leopard gecko section but will actually be the same area for all users.

Will this work? Beats me. But I can't see any reason for putting an off topic subforum in every other forum on this site.

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Sounds like a great idea Rich!

[Glenn Bartley]

Please bear in mind that the following is my opinion on this subject. I am not saying it has to be my way, or that my way is the right way, but I am discussing my thoughts on this issue – that is all I am doing. I did a lot of careful thinking on this subject, and some self reflection before I formulated my ideas, here they are:

I cannot see any reason to place a forum labeled as an "Off Topic Forum" anywhere on this site so that users can place off topic threads as they please. To do so, in my opinion, is simply pandering to those who refuse to abide by the rules of faunaclassifieds. Why is it that it seems important to bend over backwards to those who break the rules and who induce others to do so? Why not rather have them grow up, become responsible site users, and post where they should post. Go to some of the other herp sites, look around at the immaturity expressed in the threads therein, and how the threads are posted in improper forums, and how cliquish those forums have become, and maybe you will soon realize those other sites are like a meeting place for childish spoiled rotten brats. This site is not such a virtual place, not yet anyhow - nor should it be allowed to become such. Isn’t that why most of you switched to this site in the first place, because you couldn’t stand the BS on the other sites and wanted something more mature and more organized?

I recall not too long ago that I posted a thread in an inappropriate forum. It really should have been in the jokes forum not in the for sale ads – it was a goof ad. I did not place it as such in order to cause trouble, I placed it to be an effective fun piece, but I guess cause trouble is what I effectively did. I was guilty as charged, and I was chastised for that by the powers that be. I will not knowingly misplace a thread like that again, if for no other reason than out of respect for Rich Z., the webslave. Yet the people who repeatedly misplace threads in forums such as the Leopard Gecko forums may soon have an "Off Topic Forum". This seems absolutely ludicrous to me., and a bit disrespectful to those of us who strive to remain on topic. Not only are users posting off topic discussion threads, there also seems to be quite a few sale ads and want ads popping up in the discussion forums lately. Now maybe the people who post the off topic threads, and the misplaced advertisements are also being reprimanded (as they should be) but it does not seem like that if there will soon be an "Off Topic" posting area. It seems rather, that they are being bowed down to.

I did a lot of reflective thinking about my own recent violation, and the effects it could have on this site. While it was a well intentioned joke post just for fun, I had misplaced it into the For Sale ads. Now I realize that this may have upset some who had for sale ads listed. After all, it is possible that it seemed an unprofessional ad (albeit obviously prank ad) to those who had real ads and who were trying to make money, and maybe it detracted possible buyers. It may have also had some of the site sponsors wondering why they pay good money to have their advertisements listed on a site where the threads are not kept on topic! This of course could result in Rich Z. losing revenue from this site. Well in thinking about all of that, I also gave some thought to all of the other seemingly inappropriate posts misplaced in some of the forums. That had me post a thread about cliques in the forums (what I believe is a major cause of off topic posts be misplaced). I also arrived at the conclusion that all of the misplaced posts should be removed to the General BS forum or to a forum in which they fit. All of the inappropriate posts are potentially damaging to this site just as was mine, some more so because they are posted by flagrant repeat offenders, or apparently with a cliquish/isolationist attitude. Here are just a couple of other reasons why such can be damaging to this site:

A newly registered user, or even an old timer, goes to a forum to view topics that fit into his/her interest group. I will use Leopard Geckos as the example, and I do so because of the flagrant and repeated misplacing of off topic threads, or of threads that would better fit elsewhere, into that forum by its devotees. (Note I say flagrant because some thread starters actually list the subject as Off Topic in the thread subject line.)This is nothing personal, so please don’t think so. I am not picking on that forum’s users - that forum is however just the best example I have seen about what I am addressing relative to the discussion forums. Someone who visits that forum to get info on Leopard Geckos (of which I am one as I am contemplating purchasing one or more for my daughter) quite possibly is not interested at all in another user’s: Striped Red-Tail Boa (should be under Boas or at least snakes), Bearded Dragons (should be under Bearded Dragons), a poll on who will attend the Daytona show (should be under shows and events or General BS), a poll about who to ship with (should be under shipping), a joke about a masturbating lizard (should be in jokes), silicone stuck to your fingers (should be in General BS or under Feed, caging, supplies and services), aquariums used for incubators (feed, caging, supplies and services), a leopard gecko want ad (Want Ads), please sign this petition (Laws & Legislative issues), the show in Dallas (shows and events or General BS), Ranco Thermostats (feed, caging, supplies and services), a good guy post on The Superworm Farm (The BOI), Herp Software, Treating Parasites (Veterinarian Practices & General health Issues), a good guy post on Alberto from AMGeckos (The BOI), a Rhac bought at the FIRE show (Geckos or General BS or Shows & Events), an inquiry about the effectiveness of Parazap for pinworm treatment (Veterinarian Practices & General health Issues) . All those were from only 4 pages in the leo forum (the first 4 pages as I write this). Even if a person was interested in these topics, why would he go to the Leopard Gecko forum to search for them? By the way, did I add them up right 17 posts in all that were, if only in my opinion, pretty much off topic or that would have been better placed into forums that were custom made by the webslave to fit such topics? That is a tad more than 4 per page. Could that be annoying to someone who is actually looking for info about leopard geckos? Could that be denying someone else, who has an interest in any of those subjects, from seeing those posts because he/she would never think to look for them in the leo forum?

Someone who is interested in Leos would have to wade through and look at each of these to determine if they really are applicable to Leos. Why should someone have to go through that trouble? In addition other users who are not in the habit of visiting the Leo forum are likely to miss out on something in which they maybe have an interest because the topic was misplaced in the Leo forum! If I am a herper, but not a leo keeper, interested in buying superworms from a dealer, I may go to the BOI to do an inquiry. Why should I also have to go to the Leopard gecko forum to do the same? Why not let everyone know, by way of the appropriate form, that this guy is an honest, respectable, dealer of feeder insects? It does, as I see it, the dealer himself a disservice to have this good guy post restricted to the leo forum! Furthermore, if you want to buy Leos, why not post in the want ads? Why pester people in the Leo section with an ad when ads do not belong there? It is enough to make someone think that the forum is being misused by a select closely knit group, who has taken it over as their own personal message boards regardless of the rest of this site’s forums and regardless of the good of the membership. I am not saying the threads should not be posted, I am saying they should be posted in the appropriate forums. To not post them appropriately can be indicative of a few things: someone made an honest mistake and someone was well intentioned but got it in the wrong place, someone does not care if it is in the right place or not so long as his buddies in his favorite forum see it, someone does not give a hoot that the webslave spent lots of money and lots of hours getting this site together with all of the forums anyone could want, someone is being disrespectful of the webslave (especially in the case of repeat mispostings), someone is being disrespectful of those others who may have an interest in the same topic but who would not see it because it was misplaced in the Leo section, or that there is indeed a clique (or are cliques) of users who only want to communicate with others in their own group. Repeatedly posting threads in inappropriate forums, as I see it, only lends to the breakdown of the integrity of this site. Doing it repeatedly in one forum or another also only induces others to do likewise. The Leopard Gecko Forum is certainly not the only one that contains inappropriately placed threads; for instance there is a recent Box Turtle for sale ad in the Turtles/Tortoises forum and there are others, and most importantly it seems to be becoming the popular thing to do.

I think it should be stopped, not encouraged.

All the best,
Glenn B;)

[jenn_jeffery]

I agree with Glenn, there is no need to cater to the people that can't find the appropriate forum to post in. If people would use the 'view new posts' button/link, then they could read all posts that interest them, or by people that are their friends.

[Xelda]

I think what may help encourage people to familiarize themselves with forums outside their bubble is to make the "View New Posts" link more obvious.

[KelliH]

So, in effect, I can put an OFF TOPIC subforum in another forum and link it to another more relevant forum. For instance, I could put a subforum in the Leopard Gecko Discussion forum called Off Topic Posts and have that simply linked to the General BS forum. I could do the same in the Bearded Dragon Discussion Forum as well. So in effect, the off topic subforums will appear to be local to the leopard gecko section but will actually be the same area for all users.

Sounds like a great idea to me as well.

I will copy/paste what I wrote in another thread on this same subject:

So let me see if I have this right. Referring to a another forum poster's gecko by name (if it has a name) is not acceptable. Joking around with friend on the Leo Forum is not acceptable. Basicaly having a good time on the Leo Forum is not acceptable.

Myself and Justyn and a few others have made a concerted effort to bring people to the Leo Forum on Fauna. Why? Because we wanted a place to post about leopard geckos and also feel comfortable posting and also have a good time. Yes, sometimes threads will stray off the original subject, that is just human nature, it happens in every forum.

Of course we want everyone to feel welcome but we also want this place to be a community. I believe it has become exactly that, a community, and if I am not mistaken it is the most popular forum on this website, with the exception of the BOI. That's awesome!

I do really like the idea that Rich has talked about, which is putting an "Off Topic" subforum in the Leopard Gecko Forum itself. Maybe that would take care of this "problem", and allow members to post their off topic posts in the forum where they hang out in the most, and where their online buds can read and reply. Just my opinions on the subject.

[Seamus Haley]

Straying a bit here... Kelli, your response didn't really address the topic I raised initially and I do want your opinion on it.

Threads which are started in a forum where they are off topic and another forum exists which would be appropriate- Are they negative or positive?

Since the leopard gecko forum has been mentioned several times despite my desire to keep this a broad discussion rather than one of specifics- Why is it acceptable for someone to create a post in the leopard gecko forum about their boa or bearded dragon or who the best person to buy feeder insects from would be or how to wire up flexwatt when there are forums specifically devoted to those subjects?

As I said, if there is someone specific you want to have reading a thread and responding, send them a link if you don't believe they will see it otherwise. The only reason this has become as bad as it has is the lack of warning points associated with it- it IS against the rules and IS mentioned as having a warning level of one. If even a single point were applied to infractions, there would be a very empty leopard gecko forum since most the regular posters would have long since hit the ban limit.

Which is why I feel that slightly stronger enforcement would be a good thing. As I mentioned in my initial post, the full name rule has only a single warning point attached to it and innocent mistakes are corrected without a point being issued. Repeat offenders get a point or two and generally correct the problem. Those who choose to ignore the early warnings have their posts simply deleted until they can follow the rules. If the same were applied to off topic threads (I think the moderators know that discussions shift and move and subjects can gradually change, sometimes encompassing additional topics, but threads where the initial post is off topic are a problem) it would encourage growth in a few forums which are unfortunately underused, clean up the topical forums so that people seeking a specific discussion topic can find it without hinderance, cut down on repeat posts when these rogue threads are moved to the appropriate forum by a moderator and generally strengthen fauna as a whole. The most notorious offenders would fairly quickly shape up and the problem would all but dissapear.

[Seamus Haley]

Incidentally, I also agree with Glenn about the linked subforum where posts appear local in two places- Why cater to people who can't follow the rules to begin with? There are very few fauna users who are truly stupid, I think the leopard gecko forums regular posters can probably find the appropriate forums for their non-leopard gecko talk if they try hard enough.

Most of them anyway.

Maybe two or three exceptions.

[KelliH]

Sorry Seamus, got sidetracked by the other stuff.

Threads which are started in a forum where they are off topic and another forum exists which would be appropriate- Are they negative or positive?

I do agree that when another forum exists on a topic the post should be in the appropriate forum. I do like Rich's idea about the Off-Topic link in the forums themselves.

[robin d.]

Please bear in mind that the following is my opinion on this subject.
and what do we know about opinions and what they are like??? and that EVERYONE has one!!!

quoted by me from the other thread cuz i really dont have the patience to retype it again

well if it makes anyone feel better any of the off topic area will be directly linked to the general discussion forums..... for the most part i do not like OT posts however if i have something OT i will p[ost it in the correct forum and if i feel filled with the spirit to share it with my leo buds i will (especially reptiles related OT) share it with them as well. .... dont try and be too anal we moved here because we wanted the freedom in which KS does not give you ... the more structure you ask for the more you will get and therefor ending up like what we moved away from. if tyou want more rules and what not go back to KS... i chose not to. rich here has a fairly simple structure and a very simple set of rules... more rules means more mods which means at one point of another he will have to spend more money and im sure mostly out of his own pocket or start to charge more or for other services... i say sh!t or get off the pot... you got a handful of "whats" in one hand and sh1T in the other which one weighs more?



glenn were you the stinky kid in school no one played with? i really like playing with you glenn... it's alot of fun and i can't smell anything over here.
were or are your socilization skills so lacking that this disturbs you this much (for seamus too)? it's called being rather anal retentive .... i do not care for OT posts but i think shareing reptile related OT posts with your fellow "fill in the blank" forum patrons as well as in the appropriate forum is fine... the OT posts that get me are the ones like "hey show me your pic" or "lets have a hottie contest" "whats your favporite video game" or "who can pee farther" , lets just say posted in the boa forum.... it has nothing to do with reptiles or boas for that matyter thus it should be in the general BS foeum ... but shareing in your happiness or even in your devistations about reptiles in the forum in which you post the most is no harm nor foul.... do you guys frequent the forum? i mean i know i have seen you post there but do you keeop up with the day to day goings ons? i honestly dont think so... but for the people that do it can be somewhat an oputlet for something things OT to that particular forum

[robin d.]

and im not going back to edit that post because i dont have the time to go over and blah blah blah :::: mumbles ::: "carbs are the enemy you know?"
and my eyes are hurting from looking at the screen

[Glenn Bartley]

Actually when I was a kid I was brought up to respect rules that were good, and to question if not downright oppose those that were not. I have a sense of priorities. If a web site is set up in a certain way and meant to be used that way, then I respect the wishes of the webslave and try to do it his/her way. If you have a problem with that, and it makes you so uncomfortable as to find a need to question my psychological make-up, and to question my childhood hygiene, and to question how well I played with others, then maybe you really need to take it up with a psychologist or other mental health care worker. While you are in therapy why not discuss the concept of anal retentiveness as opposed to the concept of prioritization with the therapist. I think you will find that confusion of a healthy respect for prioritization with anal retentiveness is a rather liberal distortion of psychology. My healthy respect for the rules, and for the set up of this web site, is just that - a healthy respect. As I have already pointed out I have sometimes broken the rules myself, but I do try not to avoid doing so.

The remainder of the ideas in your post are rather off the mark, and extremely personal don't you think. I was going to respomd to them, but alas they are very off topic, and I am pretty sure no one really wants to hear of my bathroom hygiene habits and whether or not I had smelly fingers when I was a child, and whether or not I played well with others, except maybe for you. I will say I am fascinated by just how very much you take such an interest in the intimacies of my life. When I write the book, I will make sure to send you a signed copy. I do wonder one thing: How does it feel to be played with on your end (double entendre definitely not intended)?


Best regards,
Glenn B

[robin d.]

several years back my shrink did say i was one taco short of an enchalada plate............. i have come far since them so maybe i just lack the lettuce or salsa now

[Glenn Bartley]

heeee heeee gotta love it

[beakgeek]

Robin


You're the whole enchilada in my eyes.....despite Marsha calling you the "h" word. ;-)

Regards,

Terry

Proud owner of some smokin Chunky Monkey, Tiger Leo babies!!!

[robin d.]

awww shucks terry
:blush:

but i'd think id rather be a "ho" than a "granny":hehe:

[TooManyBurmese]

Well I am guilty of breaking the rules here. I posted pictures of my dog in a fish forum, and I did accidently post a question about a leopard gecko in the regular gecko forum. I realized afterwards there was a specific leopard gecko forum. That wasn't a mistake, but rather just plain old laziness.

As kind of a newish person to this site, and another person brought up to have a respect for rules and authority, I do agree with Glenn.

This whol argument about whether to have an off topic forum reminds me of the Express Lane of the supermarket. I only go into that lane if I have 10 items or less (or whatever number is designated). But I repeatedly find myself behind inconsiderate people with a shopping cart full of items. And the cashier doesn't turn them away. I can understand why, they make $6.50 an hour and couldn't care less. But if I ran into the store for milk or butter, I now have to wait 15 minutes.

I don't go into the leopard gecko forum so I can't say anything about that forum, but I do agree that if there are rules, they should be followed, or why the heck have rules?

[Mustangrde1]

Ok I voted #3

Off topic post happen all to often yet they normally find there way back ontopic and valuable information can be had from the offtopic post.

Very seldom even in everyday life can i think of a topic that doesnt go to something else. Its a fact of life. Best solution let a topic run its course and see what turns up.

[Seamus Haley]

This thread is a little old and the "situation" doesn't seem to be a situation anymore...

It wasn't so much about threads which wandered off topic through the course of conversation, but those which started off topic. Posting a thread in an inappropriate area when an appropriate area existed just because some members wanted to share a thread specifically with one another.