my first snake corn or milk or king

[newherper]

which is friendlier of the three milks ,corns or, kings

[jenn_jeffery]

Cornsnakes are really good first snakes, kings and milks are both super squirmy as adults even...

[Vin115]

Corns are always a good beginner snake. Very docile and come in a variety of attractive morphs that you can choose from. Kings and Milks can be a bit squirmy but I think the most docile of the two are Kings. I have a Mexican Black King and I had a California King. Both of them have been a pleasure to keep. Kings and Milks are GREAT eaters and rarely give any problem in that department. My Honduran Milk is a bit jumpy and nervous at times but I have read that this behavior is often seen in the species. But, to sum it all up, I think either a well started Corn or Kingsnake is the best choice. Good luck with whatever you may choose. Take care.

~Vin

[Sasheena]

If you like to just VIEW the snake, a milk or a king could be as rewarding, if not more rewarding, as a corn. But if you want to HOLD the snake, a corn would be a better bet.

[Sybella]

Oh yes...I put in my vote for a corn!! Milks and Kings are good choices for temperment too but they musk you and I hate that lots!! LOL!

[Alias47]

I would NOT get a Milk if you want to handle it.

Some milks can be very tempermental (Hondurans especially)
I have a Pueblan...and it is very shy, very fast, and very VERY squirmy.

Corns are definitely very handleable.

Kings are as well...but they are definitely a two handed snake, especially when they are small. They are fast and never stop moving.

I handle my cali king for HOURS most days and she is very easy to deal with...

[Sand&SunReptile]

Kings and Milks, if handled from an early age aren't bad at all.
I have a big 4ft king, and she never sits still
I'd rather that then a snake that just sits there doesnt move when handled.
Also a killer arizona moutain king at work that is absolutely stunning, also has a great temperment.
Just my experiances.

[vscampbell]

Some of the baby corns I have had have been a little shy on the eating department, never had that probelm with a king snake. The easiest snake I have to handle is a 54" Mexican Black King. Just like a Ball Python or a Boa and eats anything! Baby corns are very wiggly also, as are kings and milks, and it is true that corns don't have a musking defense mechanism like kings and milks do when they are young.

If you choose an Eastern king variety, Mexican Black King, Cal King, or a Corn I can't see how you can go too wrong on the pet side. Just remember to keep the babies humid, sphagnum moss moistened with a sprayer is the best I've found.

Val Campbell

[Alias47]

I have never heard of keeping the babies humid...other than fresh hatched.

Why do you propose this?

All my snakes have been 3 or 4 feeding hatchlings and have THRIVED in the same environment that my Adults do.

[Sand&SunReptile]

After they've shed and fed, the humidity is much of an issue. As long as they have 60% or so.
I'd defenitely still choose the king over anything. Even if you do get a biter, if it is small, it wont hurt, and you can calm it down with handling. All the corns we had at work were stubborn to get started. They need to be fed in a very small container. We've had much better success rates when fed in small containers.

[vscampbell]

Hate to jump subjects in the middle of a thread, but I have several Northern Pine hatchlings, from different clutches, and I'm having a tough time keeping food down them. They eat and puke up the meal several days later. Ambient is 74F with 84F belly heat areas in the back of ten gallon aquariums. Pine shavings on the bottom of the cages, water available sufficient for soaking. I use PE2 temp guns for monitoring, as well as two room thermometers as a double check. Hide spots are available, but they don't use them a lot, prefering to burry in the pine chavings. Room is a dedicated snake room, very quiet. They've been checked for parasites and proto. I've tried mice, furry rats, etc. They puke everything up except pinkies, but they don't puke every time. I could just feed pinkies for while, but 18" pituophis hatchlings EAT A LOT of pinkies. I am going to start another thead specific to this subject.

Any ideas?

Val Campbell

[Sand&SunReptile]

TAKE THEM OFF THE PINE!!!!!! Pine is horrible for snakes. It can be toxic and fatal.
Also, give them a 95ish degree basking area.
I'd use aspen, or even newspaper/paper towels.
Hope this advice helps.

[vscampbell]

I'll take them off shavings immediately and see if that helps. We don't have aspen available up here, not that I have seen. These are called "white" shavings and are usually pine. I know that cedar is bad for snakes but I have never heard any issues with Pine???

Val Campbell

[Alias47]

Most pet supply places...especially the national chains...will carry aspen. Need to look in the cute and fuzzy (food:dgrin:) bedding section.

Aspen is aesthetically pleasing, and clumps well when soiled, so spot cleaning is easier.

You may want to use paper towels or newspaper (sheets) until you diagnose the problem.

[Vin115]

I pity the fool who uses pine.

[Sand&SunReptile]

Indeed. They may be PINE snakes, but that doesnt mean pine chips, shavings, and whatnot is healthy for them. Odars and oils can be very deadly, toxic, and fatal

[Brandon Osborne]

TAKE THEM OFF THE PINE!!!!!! Pine is horrible for snakes. It can be toxic and fatal.
Also, give them a 95ish degree basking area.
I'd use aspen, or even newspaper/paper towels.
Hope this advice helps.

Did you know "Aspen" is a type of Pine Tree? I know of people that have kept snakes on pine for MANY years. I don't know of any study that shows pine has adverse effects on snakes. Also, kingsnakes don't like hot temps......a 95ish basking spot would not be a good idea.....unless it's for a Ball Python. Take about 10 degrees off that number and you'll be fine.

Brandon Osborne

[Sand&SunReptile]

I have always read, and been advised by experianced herp keepers to avoid pine. I would say, the pine itself, if ordarless and oilless would be fine, but if they do have the oils and whatnot they become toxic. I guess the same may be true with other wood substrates.
I use mostly newspaper, and also aspen shavings on my adult corns. Never any problems with either, and the newspaper is incredibly easy to clean.

[Alias47]

Brandon- Aspen is NOT a type of pine tree (contrary to popular belief) it is in the Poplar family.

"Aspen Tree
(Populus tremula)

LIKE the Willows, with which group they constitute the natural order Salicaceae, the Poplars are so variable a series of trees as to present considerable difficulties to the systematic botanist. They are all of them deciduous trees,"

This is from this link http://www.2020site.org/trees/aspen.html
It is a primary food of the beaver...as well as multiple hoofed animals that like the leaves.

Yes, I have heard of people keeping snakes on pine...but one batch that hasn't been dried correctly...or has too much dust...and you are going to have a world of problems. Not worth the risk in my opinion. And definitely not something to recommend to an inexperienced herper.

[Alias47]

Brandon- Aspen is NOT a type of pine tree (contrary to popular belief) it is in the Poplar family.

"Aspen Tree
(Populus tremula)

LIKE the Willows, with which group they constitute the natural order Salicaceae, the Poplars are so variable a series of trees as to present considerable difficulties to the systematic botanist. They are all of them deciduous trees,"

This is from this link http://www.2020site.org/trees/aspen.html
It is a primary food of the beaver...as well as multiple hoofed animals that like the leaves.

Yes, I have heard of people keeping snakes on pine...but one batch that hasn't been dried correctly...or has too much dust...and you are going to have a world of problems. Not worth the risk in my opinion. And definitely not something to recommend to an inexperienced herper.

[Alias47]

Sorry...double post was an accident.

[starwarsdad]

I have never heard of keeping any species of pituophis with a hot spot above 85°F. As for them holding down pinkies and not larger sizes, pituophis are know to take smaller prey items much better than larger prey items. I don't know why. I would recommend feeding one or two pinks every 5-7 days for the next 4 or 5 feedings, and then trying to move to a larger prey item.

[coyote]

It depends on what you mean by "friendly".
For a snake that is amenable to being handled, I vote Corn.
For ease of husbandry, I vote King.

[morgan s]

TAKE THEM OFF THE PINE!!!!!! Pine is horrible for snakes. It can be toxic and fatal.
Also, give them a 95ish degree basking area.
I'd use aspen, or even newspaper/paper towels.
Hope this advice helps.

95 ish isnt too bad if you are talking the temp right on the hotspot. like if you used a infrared tempgun. with the hottest area's "surface temp" at 95, the surrounding hot side would still only be around 85.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/morgansreptiles/91b1e5f2.jpg

[morgan s]

It depends on what you mean by "friendly".
For a snake that is amenable to being handled, I vote Corn.
For ease of husbandry, I vote King.

oh yeah... the topic.

I think Corns/Rats are a little nippy... and I'm mostly partial to any tricolor-mountain kings, and milks.

[Jonathan P]

My first snake, Baby, was one of the calmest I have had the pleasure to own or spend time with. I purchased him from a private dealer outside of Pittsburgh while I was in college. He was a wild caught Columbia boa yearling. By the time I acquired him he was about 13 months old. He was a voracious eater, but not a biter. He only struck at me once in the 5 years I had him.

Although he did puncture my buddy's lower lip - he was drunk, not the snake - my buddy, and holding him but flicking his tongue out at Baby. Before I could warn him not to - bam - his lower lip / chin was bleeding. He stopped messing with him.

I was able to handle him at any time and he loved to walk the campus in summertime with me. He would simply find a comfortable position around my shoulders and come along for the ride. The funny part of it was most people didn't notice Baby on my shoulders and I would have to shift around to get Baby to move so that he would be noticed. As you can imagine some reactions were better then others.