UPS and DOA Policy [Archive] - FaunaClassifieds

StickyTongues

08-19-2005, 01:45 PM

Can anyone share their experience with UPS and DOAs? Anyone ever receive a DOA due to negligent handling and not have UPS pay the claim? My friend had a live snake shipped to him awhile back and they box came in damaged. Sad to say but the snake die.

So my friend filed a claim and UPS came back to say they are not responsible for parishable items. I found that hard to believe I mean loads of people ship though UPS. Another thing is the package was insured. The rep kept saying it was in their tariff that they are not responsible for parishable items such as live animals?

This is one of the reasons why I try to ship airport to airport if at all possible. IMO, UPS and FedEx sucks at delivering packages to residential customers. Just about every time I ship with these guys they never ring my door bell or knock, they just write up a tag saying they were here. Is there any responsible carriers anymore?

Sam Leam

Traci1

08-19-2005, 02:13 PM

As far as I know it is still against UPS policy to ship snakes, so if any one goes ahead and does it anyway, UPS would not be responsible if anything should happen to the animal(s) in transit.

StickyTongues

08-19-2005, 02:17 PM

I was told the animal was shipped with an approved account to ship live reptiles. THe package clearly stated, "Live Harmless Reptiles." In fact I've received a few boas from big breeders that were shipped via UPS so I do not believe it to be the case for all UPS shippers. So if this was shipped legally, which I'm pretty sure it was, then UPS should have paid the claim but they are saying regadless of an approved account or not they are not liable for "parishable items."

Sam Leam

Traci1

08-19-2005, 02:19 PM

Prohibited Live Animals

Live Animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted for transportation include, but are not limited to:

Any poisonous, venomous or threatening animal
Any Threatened or Endangered species
Arachnids (All): Examples: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
Birds (All)
Crocodiles (All): Examples: alligators, caimans, gavials
Mammals (All)
Obnoxious Insects: Examples: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, roaches, termites, weevils
Snakes (All): venomous and non-venomous

StickyTongues

08-19-2005, 02:40 PM

Traci,

I've seen that many times but I am still sure that they do ship them legally. I stand by this because I know these breeders who ship them UPS and I do not believe they would ship illegally. Considering how many they ship I do not see it likely that they do ship illegally. I am not trying to argue with you about this but I receive snakes all the time through UPS.

The rep even told me that even though it was true that they do ship live snakes for special accounts they still would not cover DOA because its considered parishable. I just wanted to see if there are any legal shipped who use UPS that had to file a claim for DOAs and their experiences with that.

Sam Leam

StickyTongues

08-19-2005, 02:43 PM

Jim O

08-19-2005, 03:04 PM

I forgot to mention. Same thing goes for FedEx. If any of your approved live reptiles shipper had any problems with FedEx paying a claim for a DOA would you mind sharing your experiences. Thanks!

Sam LeamThe short answer is that they don't. None of them will cover anything "perishable" under any circumstances.

Traci1

08-19-2005, 03:09 PM

I've seen that many times but I am still sure that they do ship them legally. I stand by this because I know these breeders who ship them UPS and I do not believe they would ship illegally. Considering how many they ship I do not see it likely that they do ship illegally

You are confusing legality with a company policy. No matter what the local UPS offices may overlook or what special favors they may grant certain companies...it is still against their company policy to ship snakes, therefore they can use that any time they want to refuse to take responsibility. I myself face the same thing with Fed Ex...if they want to they can refuse responsiblity because I had to sign a waiver in order to become an approved shipper of live reptiles. So if the time ever comes where I am dealing with a DOA situation (hopefully it won't!) I realize that they can refuse to take responsibility if they choose to do so.

CJBianco

08-19-2005, 05:15 PM

"LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES"

This is a clear violation of the federal Lacey Act and punishable by fines and/or imprisonment. You MUST clearly label all animal shipment packages with (1) scientific name, (2) common name, and (3) quantity. The general label "LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES" is cited and seen as an attempt to circumvent proper labeling procedures. Both the shipper and the receiver are responsible (read: liable) for following the proper shipping procedures.

Also, I do not think UPS will knowingly ship snakes. If you receive a DOA snake through UPS it is best to avoid contacting them. They could report you for illegal shipping/receiving practices.

Chris

screamdreams

08-19-2005, 05:35 PM

StickyTongues

08-19-2005, 09:28 PM

Even if you are shipping through UPS or Fed-Ex as an "approved" acct. - somewhere in all that paperwork is a stipulation regarding liabilty on the carriers part...in short, they will guarantee nothing.

Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I just think alot of people are under the impression that when you insure your package and ship reptiles, you would be covered if UPS or FedEx are at fault. So then why are soo many people taking a risk shipping these live animals through UPS or FedEX?

Theres obviously no reason to purchase additional insurance either if its not going to do you any good, in the event that the carriers screw up and the animal arrives dead. I would rather ship through Delta. A bit more expensive but worth it IMO.

Sam Leam

dwedeking

08-19-2005, 09:55 PM

So then why are soo many people taking a risk shipping these live animals through UPS or FedEX?

I've shipped hundreds of animals through UPS/Fedex system. The percentages are greater that I'm going to get killed crossing the street than a shipment is going to have a fatal issue provided the proper safeguards are in place (proper shipping, communication and screening of customers). At least this has been our experience.

With a 45 min to hour drive each way to the local airport (with good traffic)we'd have to increase our shipping costs to double or triple what they are now to pay for wear and tear on vehicles, time and gas (and damn that gas price). For shipping our most of our animals (less than $500) the risk is not that great. If I was shipping animals over $1000 I would consider some of the airport to airport services.

The internet and mail order business are competitive to a level that raising your shipping costs may take you out of the market on the low to mid price range animals. So you may risk the infrequent issue with shipping but the increased business will more than make up for the risk.

Not that I think UPS or Fedex are some great companies. Really just the lesser of two evils, but they do allow online companies to function.

SPJ

08-19-2005, 10:01 PM

UPS allows big breeders to ship and tha packages are marked as reptiles.
Here is a perfect example of them allowing snakes to be shipped thru them.

Greg Riso

08-19-2005, 11:03 PM

I have heard many people state mislabeling package contents when it comes to shipping reptiles is a violation of the Lacey Act. I know people (importers and exporters) get fined or even jailed for illegally smuggling animals. I've never heard of anyone getting bagged for saying "harmless live reptile" in lieu of proper labeling, however. Does anyone have any stories to add about people getting caught for this offense and the penalties given? It's easy to say, "you're in violation of the Lacey act," but how often is it actually enforced?

SPJ

08-20-2005, 12:02 AM

Traci1

08-20-2005, 07:46 AM

I really doubt there would be a problem since the box contains a reptile and it is marked as containing a reptile. I don't think anyone would split hairs because the scientific name was not used.

Don't know if not having the scientific name would split hairs, but the quantity and common names do have to be listed on the outside of the package. I have always written the number, the common name, and the scientific name on every package that I have sent just to be on the safe side.

Traci1

08-20-2005, 07:56 AM

UPS allows big breeders to ship and tha packages are marked as reptiles.
Here is a perfect example of them allowing snakes to be shipped thru them.

Again, UPS the company in general does not allow the shipment of snakes...what the local offices may allow in order to keep a huge customer, I guess that's up to the local office. But if they wanted to they could put a stop to it at any time, and the company can refuse to honor any claims that might be made if any animals perish in transit.

This was awhile back...but Webslave had been using UPS to ship until the local office pulled the rug out from under him. And in the corn snake world he is a big breeder.

CJBianco

08-20-2005, 11:14 AM

UPS allows big breeders to ship and tha packages are marked as reptiles.
Here is a perfect example of them allowing snakes to be shipped thru them.

Yes. UPS does allow shipping of some live reptiles. This is stated on the UPS site. I do not believe snakes are included.

Chris

CJBianco

08-20-2005, 11:19 AM

Every package I have ever recieved has been labeled live harmless reptiles or live harmless lizard (when I got geckos and beardeds in the mail).

I mark my boxes going out with live harmless reptiles all the time.

As a matter of fact, I use the type of animal as the reference with fed ex when I prepare the label online.

I really doubt there would be a problem since the box contains a reptile and it is marked as containing a reptile. I don't think anyone would split hairs because the scientific name was not used.

And that is fine. You may wish to take the chance. However, if you ship an animal without the proper labeling (per Lacey Act) you are risking the prosecution of your customer. And they may not appreciate the fines.

Chris

DragonCharm

08-22-2005, 12:00 PM

UPS has policies that forbid shipping snakes and clauses that get them out of paying claims for perishibles, your friend is out of luck due to either of those reasons.

Milwaukee Reptiles

08-23-2005, 09:41 AM

My paperwork (when you actually had to sign up for a reptile account) clearly stated (even in bold I think) that they were not responsible in any way for any loss or injury to the animal. Even if the package sits there a week in the back of a truck in the california desert, not their fault (although they would refund the shipping amount since it's guranteed by 10:30 am next day...but the animal is still a loss).

DragonCharm

08-23-2005, 09:45 AM

Live arrival they obviously don't guarantee. But what about package loss, if you put a value of $300 on the airbill and it was lost would you be reimbursed?

CJBianco

08-23-2005, 09:54 AM

Milwaukee Reptiles

08-23-2005, 10:32 AM

"My paperwork...clearly stated...that they were not responsible in any way for any loss or injury to the animal. Even if the package sits there a week in the back of a truck in the california desert..."

I would love to see an official UPS shipping agreement with the typed words "...even if the package sits there a week in the back of a truck in the california desert." That would be priceless!

Chris
That would be hilarious if it actually said that. Or maybe something like "UPS is not responsible for injury resulting from the Distrobution Center's annual 'soccer with a box' tournament or 'cardboard football frenzy' events".

As for a full loss of the package (like they just lose it and don't know where it ended up), I would think they would have to refund the amount you claimed on the airbill. No different than if they lost a regular item. This is mow much it was worth, this is how much we never got. I can't image them arguing too much over that (you know they'll try, but I think they won't put up too big of a fight if the box never got there!).

CJBianco

08-23-2005, 11:01 AM

They can crush the snot out of the snake and still are not liable for a reimbursement. All reimbursements are void on live shipments. If the package was unretrievably lost, they may pay a reimbursement. However, if they knew they were going to pay $2500 for an Albino BP, they would darn well find that package.

I don't even add a value to my shipments. I did that once, and it jacked the shipping cost up to almost $100.

Chris

fistersradio

09-22-2005, 08:39 PM

now i didnt read all 5 pages of replies to this topic so if i am repeating something, please excuse me...

I work for a distribution center and recieve deliveries from UPS on a daily basis. As I am working with a couple of breeders right now to obtain a hatchling female anery 'a' corn, I have inquired on multiple occassions.

The overwhelming response is that "UPS will not 'knowingly' ship a snake". However, it has also been noted that the UPS operation is a pretty crappy service and basically will ship anything that somebody wants to in order to make the cash.

long story short - even if the package had a neon sign on it and a loud speaker stating that there was a live snake in the box, a blind eye would be turned and the package would ship.
lastly, one driver also stated "there are some real f'd up people who load trucks. when the see a box that says 'fragile', they purposefully kick it. "

in closing - UPS will ship your snake but will state that they did not realize it was a snake/live animal. their policies note that they are not responsible for doa's.

moral of the story - dont use UPS - go with FedEx.