Question about Coccidia treatment

[Matt Haines]

When treating a whole colony for coccidia, are there any detrimental effects on animals who do not have the problem? Of course that is other than the lack of appetite due to the albon. We do not want to risk having some die due to ignorance but we do not want to accidentally harm any that may be healthy either. Fecals on everyone would be great but that would require taking out a small loan to do so. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Matt Haines]

Nobody has any experience with this?

[outrageous02909]

what type of reptiles will u being giving the Medication to their a product call parazap that work pretty go u can find on kingsnake or reptibid with info on it.

[Matt Haines]

They are bearded dragons and I do have parazap. However, some of the babies have been tested positive for coccidia and at this point parazap is no longer an option. They have to be treated with Albon and I was just wondering what the possible harm of administering Albon to a healthy dragon could be.

[Matt Haines]

So we just finished our 5 day treatment of the dragons yesterday for coccidia. We medicated with Albon and cleaned out their enclosures with a bleach solution and virosan everynight during treatment. I took some fecals to the vet today and they still have coccidia. Does anyone know how long it can possibly take to rid them of these parasites?

[Clay Davenport]

Coccidia is the internal version of snake mites, something to be feared and loathed, and hard to get rid of.
When I was breeding beardeds I bought a couple of additional adult females that came in with coccidia. The smell in the feces gave it away.
Ridding them of it was a real chore. The difficulty in eliminating the parasite can't be overstated.

The treatment routine I used was to dose 50mg/kg daily for 5 days then every other day until negative fecals are gotten, as recommended by Roger Klingenberg DVM. It can take as long as eight weeks to get it all.
The biggest problem is reinfection. You basically have to change the substrate to newspaper. Sterilise the cage and change the paper at least daily. You want to limit their exposure to their feces as much as possible. The cleaner they are kept the quicker you can hope to have them clean. It actually helps to have two, preferably plastic cages where one is always clean.
Getting it done fast is important because albon is a harsh drug. Keeping them hydrated is essential as the drug dehydrates the lizard. It can also cause renal damage, another reason to get them clean as quickly as possible.

A note on your hatchlings. Klingenberg has also noted that hatchlings appear to pick up coccidia even when never having been exposed to the parents environment. This suggests a possible trans-uterine infection where the babies hatch with it.

[nicolai]

EXTERNAL PHASE (feces, contaminated bedding, food or water)
After sporulation, the oocyst is able to withstand commercial cleansers and disinfectants
and can survive and remain in the environment for years.

Step 1
The sporulated oocyst is a mature egg containing 4 sporocysts, each with 2 sporozoites.

SUBCLINICAL PHASE (small intestine)
Subclinical coccidial infections damage the villi of the small intestine and can reduce
nutrient absorption and immune response in the host animal.

Step 2
After the sporulated oocyst is ingested and exposed to carbon dioxide and digestive
enzymes in the host’s digestive tract, it splits open (or excysts) and releases its
8 sporozoites.

Step 3
Each highly motile sporozoite swims or glides to the small intestine.

Step 4
3 to 7 days after ingestion, sporozoites enter the small intestine and reproduce asexually
through a budding process called schizogony (completed Day 5 through Day 10). Each
sporozoite can produce up to 120,000 first-generation merozoites, which are released
when the host cell bursts.

Step 5
These merozoites undergo another asexual division in the lower small intestine and
upper large intestine. Each first-generation merozoite can produce 20 to 50 secondgeneration
merozoites.

CLINICAL PHASE (large intestine)
Clinical signs of coccidiosis include bloody scours, blood-tinged feces, dehydration, anemia
and general loss of body condition.

Step 6
Second-generation merozoites penetrate the large intestine, differentiating themselves as
either male (microgametes) or female (macrogametes) and begin the sexual stage of the
life cycle.

Step 7
A microgamete fertilizes a macrogamete to produce a zygote. The zygote forms a
protective wall and becomes an oocyst, which causes the host cells to rupture.

EXTERNAL PHASE (feces, contaminated grass, feed or water)
After sporulation, the oocyst is able to withstand commercial cleansers and disinfectants
and can survive and remain in the environment for years.

Step 8
The oocyst is passed, along with tissue and fluids from the ruptured cells, in the feces.
At this stage the oocyst is unsporulated (immature) and is not infective.

Step 9
In the presence of oxygen, the oocyst undergoes a process called sporulation. It takes
2 to 4 days for an oocyst to become a sporulated oocyst, capable of infecting cattle.
A single oocyst can produce up to 24 million oocysts during the next life cycle.

Fortunately, coccidiosis is treatable. Drugs such as sulfadimethoxine (Albon®) and trimethoprim-sulfadiazine (Tribrissen®) have been effective in the treatment and prevention of coccidia. Because these drugs do not kill the organisms, but rather inhibit their reproduction capabilities, elimination of coccidia from the intestine is not rapid. By stopping the ability of the protozoa to reproduce, time is allowed for the reptiles own immunity to develop and remove the organisms.

[CheriS]

I have yet to see a beardie be rid of coccidia in 5 days/ or even 10 days so I never understand why some vets prescribe this for them.

To treat or not?

I believe that you are exposing a young beardie to many risk by treatment unless he is health compromised. IF they are eating well, active and basking, we do NOT treat them, no matter what level count we see. Studing 3 dozen dragons from hatchling through age 2 tells me that they will often show signs of coccidia, but monitored closely and kept in very clean conditions, will allow them to deal with it themselves AND develop their own immune system for the future. When you treat them, you wipe out their ability to develop that immune system along with their gut fauna and start a cycle that can be a nightmare.... and that is not something to risk when they can clear it themselves.

We handle many rescues that come in with coccidia so bad they have to be treated, they would be very ill or die otherwise and it has always taken approximately at least 21 days to clear them...some are lowered a lot in 14 days, but I have never seen it in under that time. They should always be rechecked.

We also use Klingenbergs method of 5 days on, then alternating days for 2 weeks along with really good hydration and cleaning support methods and acidolphiliz+ (this is something in lizard species I think is a must or you open another can of worms with complications). This is what works with the lowest risk to beardies.

No I would never treat a beardie that is not health compromised, even in the same enclosure with one that is.

[nicolai]

Studing 3 dozen dragons from hatchling through age 2 tells me that they will often show signs of coccidia, but monitored closely and kept in very clean conditions, will allow them to deal with it themselves AND develop their own immune system for the future.

This is exactly why we use sulfa drugs to treat the animals that need it. The sulfa drugs stop the reprodution of the organisims and allow the animals immune system to kill all the existing organisms. A lot of time if you wait for the animal to show severe signs of distress related to coccidia is is too late to try and save them. Seeing that a stricken animal can be overcome by the multiplying organisms in a very short time due to thier overwhelming numbers, I feel it its best to play it safe with my animals and help them before they get to a point where i may not be able to help them. Sulfa drugs (Albon) can save a animal from a horrible end if caught and treated in time.

[CheriS]

Thats not totally accurate, the meds do not just stop the reproduction of the organisms, they interfer with the dragon's natural production of enzymes that the coccidia use to reproduce... but the dragon also uses them for other needs...... and that is what can mess them up so much and for life.

Each person is entitled to their choices of medications/treatment of their animals, but most vets I know that are involved in ongoing research with bearded dragons now consider low levels of coccidia to be normal in bearded dragons, especially young dragons that are developing their own immune systems and advise NOT to treat unless the animal is showing signs of being health compromised.

If you medicate anything showing in a fecal.... that is your choice and you will be constantly treating all babies and some adults

A lot of time if you wait for the animal to show severe signs of distress related to coccidia is is too late to try and save them. An animal would have to be pretty bad for some time to be showing "severe signs of distress".. I said health compromised. That can be hiding, not basking as normal, gapping, smelly poos. There is a differnce in symptoms of health compromised and "severe signs of distress"

Seeing that a stricken animal can be overcome by the multiplying organisms in a very short time due to thier overwhelming numbers Due to the nature of the cycle of coccidia, this does not happen in the 1-2 weeks you are monitoring a otherwise healthy dragon. It's impossible. Again, that is your choice to medicate them, we elect and advise to monitor their fecals and see if the coccidia resolve themselves and for the past 2 years of us following 3 dozen all but one animal did. That animal had to be treated for the coccidia and he also had flagellates too, which I am sure was a factor.

We are talking about rechecking them in 1-2 weeks, no dragons are ever at risk ofa point where i may not be able to help them And again, the very nature of coccidia makes that impossible, its the treatment that often kills them, not the monitoring them for dealing with it or support methods to allow them to clear themselves.

Actually given proper cleaning conditions, and not being able to re-ingest them, coccidia will be self limiting, they can not increase in growth without being re-ingested... medication or not. Medication them is to give a hand to one that is NOT dealing with it themselves and their are health risk involved with that alone.

Since changing to this method, we are seeing our dragons reaching sizes that they never did before and extremely healthy as adults..never a medical problem in the past two years, except the one that had flagellates, and this is about 40 dragons. I think the meds are actually causing their ability to not develop to their full potential and also avoid other problems later in live. Albon is a known risk to kidney's and liver, plus dehydration and causing eating problems. When the risk of the coccidia is greater than that, we do treat them

The one we did have to treat, is the smallest dragon we have raised in years and he was placed with someone as a pet at no charge as he will never be a normal size dragon... yet his siblings were not treated, cleared themselves and are huge/healthy as adults now.