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Lucille
09-17-2005, 10:10 PM
I saw a beautiful pair of Burmese for sale; and I wondered what life with a Burmese is like. How big are the enclosures y'all who have them use?
My biggest snake is my boa, Ms. Plus Size, but she is only a little over 9 feet. She is easily handled and has a nice disposition, but I wonder how it would be to have a 100 lb.snake, she is not that heavy and I can lift her fairly easily.
So, let's hear it from the Burmese owners, what do you think?

Junkyard
09-17-2005, 10:29 PM
I have a baby at the moment, but as a rule of thumb, when handling have at least one person for every 6 feet of snake. I have a friend in Washington who uses a 7 ft Long x 4 ft wide x 3 feet tall for his burms and retics. I am going to be building a cage when my little girl out grows a 4 foot long I have waiting for her. I was told a rule of enough length that the snake can easily fold themsleves in half inside the cage so they can stretch. As I said I am new to them also, but after seeing Ravenspirit's thread this really gave me a good idea of what's to be expected.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71728

Sorry I am not a whole lot of help.

hhmoore
09-17-2005, 10:56 PM
Hey, Lucille,
Check out this thread for a little pre-decision thought http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71572
sorry - i just couldn't bring myself to retype or copy and paste it...but it is just a handful of posts

Lucille
09-18-2005, 10:42 AM
Thank y'all for your replies. I have given it some thought and have decided that since I have been a good and responsible reptile owner in the past, I feel I can live up to the challenges that the Burmese present.
They will hopefully arrive next week, their quarters are temporary while I look for a good deal on a BIG cage or cages (they have been kept together).
They are absolutely gorgeous snakes, one is albino and the other is het albino.

Jim O
09-18-2005, 11:02 AM
Lucille,

I have two words of caution about keeping them together. First is feeding time. I would hate to have to separate two hungry Burms. These two may be docile but they are still pythons with the ability to injure you a great deal with a bite, nevermind if they decide that you are food. Second is the issue of breeding. If they are a 1.1 pair and you house them together you may get eggs whether you plan on it or not. Burms can produce very large clutch numbers and the market is saturated. Way too many of these snakes have been released in places like Florida (where they now now have established populations) and euthanized because they simply "got too big".

Just another $0.02.

Lucille
09-18-2005, 12:16 PM
I think the female may already be gravid, I would never release any albino burms into the Houston bayous, though.
I am looking though some classifieds and ebay, but y'all email me if you see a good deal on cages. I did a terrific job building my custom acrylic cages in my reptile room, but I think that for such large snakes, I will purchase cages such as visions, etc.

ms_terese
09-18-2005, 10:20 PM
I'm checking in late on this topic, but I'll just reiterate a few things that others have said. I have 5 beautiful burms, from 17 ft. on down.

Enclosures can be a challenge. All of ours have been made by us, so I don't have any advice on which cages you should buy, but they are 8 x 4 x 3. Each one has a pre-molded tub from the pond supply section of Lowe's to soak in. Large acrylic viewing areas, one deep shelf at the end opposite the water tub serves a dual purpose: makes for a great hide, and also gives a shelf to curl up on top of if they like. Heat is provided via under tank heat tape, augmented for basking heat by a ceramic heat emitter up top over the center area. Plenty of acrylic viewing windows, and LARGE double doors in the front so that I can actually crawl inside for cleaning if necessary.

I second the opinion that they shouldn't be kept together UNLESS you acquire a cage that has the option of dividing in half (by inserting a panel) for either feeding or cleaning. I've seen them, but can't remember where.

One person for every six feet of snake, no exceptions. The most docile snake in the world can react to stimulus you neither notice or control, and it can lead to a world of hurt. I also recommend a spray bottle of alcohol be kept close at hand just in case ... even if they don't coil after a bite, they sometimes just refuse to let go, and a spritz of alcohol will undo that.

Enjoy them, and good luck!

Lucille
09-18-2005, 10:32 PM
Ms. Terese can you post pix, I would love to see your burms and your enclosure.

Junkyard
09-19-2005, 12:00 AM
Just a thought to add. I keep a bottle of 200 proof alcohol(from work laboratory). I have found that this did not work when I had a 5 foot boa latch on to my arm. I read and heard a lot from people that alcohol works wonders, not in my case. I have since learned to also use hot water, the snakes react instantly to extreme heat. I still keep the alcohol around just in case. That boa sat for 3 hours with his mouth agape after getting a nice dousing of alcohol.

hhmoore
09-19-2005, 12:11 AM
Just a thought to add. I keep a bottle of 200 proof alcohol(from work laboratory). I have found that this did not work when I had a 5 foot boa latch on to my arm. I read and heard a lot from people that alcohol works wonders, not in my case. I have since learned to also use hot water, the snakes react instantly to extreme heat. I still keep the alcohol around just in case. That boa sat for 3 hours with his mouth agape after getting a nice dousing of alcohol.
I prefer 80-100 proof alcohol, personally (call me a wimp). PROCEDURE: A little spritz for the snake, a few swigs for me, and wait. Repeat swigs PRN and titrate to effect. **please remember to put snake/lizard away at some point after it gets bored and lets go...BE CAREFUL, or you will get bit again** :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
sorry - I couldn't resist
On a more serious note, I do know of people that do the alcohol thing. They use cheap vodka. (I would let go to if you gave me that crap) I had considered preparing a spray bottle at one point, but I figured it was more likely to pi$$ the monitors off and make'em hold on longer...or worse, bite harder and shake. I'm not sure what alcohol the lab uses, but at least cheap vodka is technically ingestable. If the stuff you used cannot, I wouldn't spray it into the mouth of MY snakes

Karen Hulvey
09-19-2005, 04:14 AM
Harald you're crackin' me up! :raspberry

Hot water works wonders but it only works if you can manage to drag all 10' or 15', or however long it is, of the snake to the sink.

Lucille
09-19-2005, 06:24 AM
I will give these suggestions some consideration as I have no alcohol in my home. I have been bitten from time to time but have never had a snake bite and latch on, that must be quite an experience,

hhmoore
09-19-2005, 07:32 AM
part of it will depend on your tolerance - not to make light of the concept of being bitten and held by a large constrictor (or anything else). My approach, when bitten by something that wanted to hold on has always been to just wait them out. Yes, I frequently broke those rules about always having another person at least close by when handling the big guys. but the bites were rarely surprises. the worst (and most stupid, lol) was when I lost the "you are going in there" battle with a large, squirmy African rock. I had a set of cages occupying a walk in closet, and he managed to get his head between the top of the cage and the frame of the closet. DONE, it was all over, and I eventually gave up the (futile) fight and watched him disappear. He couldn't get anywhere, but I didn't want him coming out and wreaking havoc. In my infinite wisdom, I went down and defrosted a guinea pig... thinking I could lure him out.
It was a great plan, and would have worked easier if I hadn't lent my feeding tongs to somebody. (can you see where this is going yet?) I grasped the g.pig by the hind quarters, and pushed the head up over the top of the cage. Instantly, the rocks head shot past, circled down and grabbed my hand, and tried to retreat into the 3 inch gap over the cage. even if I had had a spray bottle, I couldn't have gotten to it. there was even somebody home that I could have called out to, not that she could have done anything. so I resigned myself to waiting. This sucked, because it felt as if I was being degloved (for those of you not familiar with the term, degloving is the removing of the skin from the hand...like taking off a glove). but as time went on, and my hand didn't go into the small space (picture me standing there, hand over my head, pulled against a 6' high stack of cages, while a large snake is trying to drag me in - its actually kinda funny), he came out just a bit to wrap a coil around my wrist. This sucked too, but it was the beginning of what I knew was my way out. after about 10 more minutes of squeezing and pulling, he came out a little farther to get a better grip, and I began working him out of the space. it took about 5 minutes but out he came. I sat down in the middle of the floor, and he almost immediately let go. I picked up the guinea pig (I had long since dropped that to the floor) and put it in his cage, then steered him in.
My advice to everyone - DON'T DO THAT!!
An :>off_to<: note - have any of you noticed that rocks, at least large imported rocks, tend to shoot past their prey, then hook back and constrict/grab in one motion...typically biting toward the rear of the animal. In my experience, this was a very common thing...at least with prey items ranging in size from large rats to 5lb rabbits. (yes, I had already noticed this when the above incident took place, and I knew I was in trouble as soon as I saw his head come out)

ms_terese
09-19-2005, 09:09 AM
Lucille, I don't have any decent pics of the enclosures that would show their layout, but here are a couple of pics of the inhabitants.

Lucille
09-19-2005, 02:00 PM
Harald OMG what a terrifying experience!!! I can't imagine going through all that!!
Terese those are gorgeous snakes but of course now I want to hear who everyone in the pic is....

Junkyard
09-19-2005, 03:11 PM
Harold, seems you just had a lot of fun there. As far as my lab quality alcohol, I have had friends taste the stuff, they said it was the most disgusting thing they ever tried. I do not drink so I would not know one way or the other. I figure if 100 percent pure alcohol did not work than I am in trouble, I have not tried the isopropyl alcohol(rubbing alcohol) though it may be a better choice, I am sure it would have a better impact on the snake. Maybe even acetone would work too, but I am going to stick with the safer alcohol, 100 percent versus chemically altered is a better choice I think. I figured my lab quality was strong enough, all well, I guess I can say I have seen a tipsy snake for sure now. :rofl: :rofl:

hhmoore
09-19-2005, 03:56 PM
Harald OMG what a terrifying experience!!! I can't imagine going through all that!!
Terese those are gorgeous snakes but of course now I want to hear who everyone in the pic is....
It was stupid, as I already said. I did try to do it in a "hands off" manner, but I didn't have enough control. I literally had only the back legs in my hand (my thumb under the belly) and pushed the front end up with a snake hook. If it had not been for the "overshoot", it would have worked great. Literally as soon as I saw his head, I knew I was had...but it was too late to stop.

Lesson learned though...I have never put a bank of cages in a walk-in closet since!

Jim O
09-19-2005, 04:51 PM
Harold, seems you just had a lot of fun there. As far as my lab quality alcohol, I have had friends taste the stuff, they said it was the most disgusting thing they ever tried. I do not drink so I would not know one way or the other. I figure if 100 percent pure alcohol did not work than I am in trouble, I have not tried the isopropyl alcohol(rubbing alcohol) though it may be a better choice, I am sure it would have a better impact on the snake. Maybe even acetone would work too, but I am going to stick with the safer alcohol, 100 percent versus chemically altered is a better choice I think. I figured my lab quality was strong enough, all well, I guess I can say I have seen a tipsy snake for sure now. :rofl: :rofl:
Actually, 100 ethyl alcohol does not exist naturally as it distills as an azeotrope of 95%-96% alcohol, 4%-5% water. In order to get the remaining water off it needs to be mixed with benzene and redistilled. That will leave a tiny amount of benzene behind which is HIGHLY TOXIC (causes liver injury and is associated with leukemia). So...is it really 100% ethyl alcohol? If so, do not use it on anything living. If it's 95% then at least you know that it probably does not contain benzene, but if it is laboratory ethanol it still may contain some methanol and other compounds that are not the best for your herps. I would stick with cheap vodka.

Lucille
09-19-2005, 06:16 PM
We will have to name these two. Few of my snakes are named, after all they do not come when they are called; but my biggest boa is Ms. Plus Size and she is only a little over 9 feet. Any ideas for names?

Junkyard
09-19-2005, 07:25 PM
Actually, 100 ethyl alcohol does not exist naturally as it distills as an azeotrope of 95%-96% alcohol, 4%-5% water. In order to get the remaining water off it needs to be mixed with benzene and redistilled. That will leave a tiny amount of benzene behind which is HIGHLY TOXIC (causes liver injury and is associated with leukemia). So...is it really 100% ethyl alcohol? If so, do not use it on anything living. If it's 95% then at least you know that it probably does not contain benzene, but if it is laboratory ethanol it still may contain some methanol and other compounds that are not the best for your herps. I would stick with cheap vodka.

Good point. Actually I am using reagent alcohol. It is 90% ethyl alcohol, 5% methyl alcohol, and 5% isopropyl alcohol. So no it is not 100% ethyl alcohol. Thanks for catching that. Personally I stay away from any alcohol that would be used in the body, I do not allow it in my home. So I use what I have. I am more concerned of the amount of benzene drifting into my home from the neighbors smoking like chimneys from the open windows and fan circulation. (another reason I am moving) Though I did move out here to avoid a lot of pollution from vehicles that just grey out Los Angeles, I was tired of sitting behind mufflers on the freeway for a 3 hour commute one way.

From my experience I have learned that I am better off using the hot water.

I only name the snakes I use for teaching. When I start using my burm I will probably get an albino retic and call them Peaches and Cream(my wife likes those names) Though my favorite name of all my snakes is Wrheaid. Yes that is spelled right. It is spelled in old english, when spoken properly you will end up saying "Red", remember the H is silent. I am awful with names, sorry I am no help there.

psilocybe
09-19-2005, 07:51 PM
Good point. Actually I am using reagent alcohol. It is 90% ethyl alcohol, 5% methyl alcohol, and 5% isopropyl alcohol. So no it is not 100% ethyl alcohol. Thanks for catching that. Personally I stay away from any alcohol that would be used in the body, I do not allow it in my home. So I use what I have. I am more concerned of the amount of benzene drifting into my home from the neighbors smoking like chimneys from the open windows and fan circulation. (another reason I am moving) Though I did move out here to avoid a lot of pollution from vehicles that just grey out Los Angeles, I was tired of sitting behind mufflers on the freeway for a 3 hour commute one way.

From my experience I have learned that I am better off using the hot water.

I only name the snakes I use for teaching. When I start using my burm I will probably get an albino retic and call them Peaches and Cream(my wife likes those names) Though my favorite name of all my snakes is Wrheaid. Yes that is spelled right. It is spelled in old english, when spoken properly you will end up saying "Red", remember the H is silent. I am awful with names, sorry I am no help there.

As Jim said in his post, methanol (methyl alcohol) is toxic to living organisms. Even in a concentration of 5%, I would still try and avoid using it.

Like said before, stick to the drinking alcohol (cheap vodka). Actually, if you really love your snakes, you would get a bottle of Grey Goose or Belvedere :rofl:

Lucille
09-19-2005, 10:28 PM
Welcome, Abhishek, it's been a while since I have seen you around. Any chance you can find Danni, after all she is the Burmese queen? I would love to have her post on my thread here.

ms_terese
09-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Terese those are gorgeous snakes but of course now I want to hear who everyone in the pic is....The young man holding that beautiful albino green is Fauna member Morgan Bracken, Jr. "no1snotsucker". The 3 showing off the labyrinth burmese are (from left), Brian O'Neill (dear friend of Jungle Mist Reptiles and web designer extraordinaire), my daughter Amanda, and my dear husband Steven "MR_Jungle_Mist".

By the way, my spray bottle is full of cheap scotch, not cheap vodka. I'd be tempted to drink the cheap vodka. :)

I tried the hot water trick once, and it had the opposite effect...he latched on harder.

I think that if you've got a big python attached to you and you want to remove it, you'll probably be willing to try every trick in the book until you hit the one that works!

Lucille
09-20-2005, 06:12 AM
I loved your pix Terese, thank you. Gorgeous snakes and nice people.

I keep no liquor in my home, hopefully these guys will not latch on until I get around to going to the booze store (of course, I will not be telling the liquor store clerk WHY I was buying vodka,lol).

If all goes well, they should be here tomorrow!

hhmoore
09-20-2005, 10:46 AM
Enjoy them, Lucille. BTW, you never said how big they are

Lucille
09-20-2005, 11:18 AM
The male, an albino, is 11 feet; the het female is 12 feet.

Junkyard
09-20-2005, 12:19 PM
Wow you are jumping right into the XL size! Good luck with them.

Lucille
09-20-2005, 01:03 PM
Well, yeah; but remember I have big boas, my largest is a little over 9 feet. I really look forward to seeing them and of course y'all will get to hear all about them :)

Lucille
09-28-2005, 06:45 AM
My seller was good enough to hold on to my pair of Burmese during the recent hurricane (that is another whole thought, I ought to start a thread about hurricane preparedness for reptiles to see what folks think) and I should be arranging delivery soon.
What do y'all use as substrate for your Burmese?

rstymtlhd
10-12-2005, 11:51 PM
burms are great as long as you handle them often throughout their lives. Most have a great disposition once they realize your not going to hurt them. they can be a bit nippy when they are young, but if you can endure a few days of attitude you will be well rewarded for your patience.
I have 10 burm's ranging from 27" to 15ft and i still take the big girl { Peaches} out 2-3 times a week for exercise on my driveway and beleive me everybody stops and pets her and takes pics she is very tame. BUT, be prepared to feed your burm 8-10 lb., items and 2-3 of those a week.
chickens, rabbits, ducks, pigs whatever you choose, because while they will eat jumbo rats for a long time, are you prepared to feed it 15-20 a week? Well good luck and i hope you enjoy yours as much as i do mine.

ms_terese
10-13-2005, 12:17 AM
BUT, be prepared to feed your burm 8-10 lb., items and 2-3 of those a week.Kris, are you saying you feed your burm 2-3 times per week?

rstymtlhd
10-13-2005, 07:33 PM
beautiful lab by the way ms. terese
but to clarify my statement, i meant be prepared to feed your large burms, food items that weight 8-10 lbs. and 2-3 items per week. My large green albino eats like food is going out of style thats why i said 2-3 items per week. After breeding season i feed 1 item every 3-4 days til their weight picks back up. I will post pics soon. having problems with my camera.........

Lucille
10-13-2005, 10:46 PM
I do not think either burm could eat 30 lbs. of food in one sitting. Well, they don't sit, but you know what I mean. Also I do not feed my large snakes once a week.